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[Guevara]

Was something supposed to happen with Patches? I just immediate killed him. He went down quick.

 

[GorillaJu]

Has there been any conjecture on the Bag Men? They kidnap you, and pre Rom Yahar'gul is occupied by them and witches. They also have a priestess seemingly captive. Post Rom in that area they are all dead, and there are hunters and beasts present. Also they seem pretty common to the chalice dungeons.

No clue here. They're a real mystery to me. They seem like nomadic opportunist types, not really involved in the greater picture, they just appear from time to time to ruin your fucking day with their super saiyan vacuum cleaner into punch-stomp kick ultra combo.

In the Unseen Village, we see the note that "mad men" are trying to "beckon the moon". Clearly that's referring to the Mensis school trying to reach the Great Ones, not the kidnapper dudes.
(Mensis Cage description):

"The School of Mensis controls the Unseen Village.

This hexagonal iron cage suggests their strange ways. The cage is a device that restrains the will of the self, allowing one to see the profane world for what it is.

It also serves as an antenna that facilitates contact with the Great Ones of the dream.

But to an observer, the iron cage appears to be precisely what delivered them to their harrowing nightmare."

Once Rom is gone, super saiyan bagger boys get their shit fucked up by corpse werewolves, so they're clearly not on the same team as Mensis. You can find their bodies around, and they kindly leave Blood Stone chunks on them for you.

 

[GorillaJu]

Not quite, he's from the Church, but not of Yarnham. His gear states that Father is not a title used in Yarnham but by those from outside the city it is.

Nah I think he is from the Healing Church, and "Father Gascoigne" is just a nickname because he's a father, making the item description witty but misleading. The black church clothes you find, and that the church woman wears have the exact same muffler round the neck as Gascoigne's garb–the difference is just Gascoigne's is raggedy. Besides, the church started the hunters, and Gascoigne was a hunter.

edit: fuck me, double posting for days.

 

[Coconut]

The change is truly sudden, and drastic. It's like something is missing in the transition. We know that Laurence is Willem protege and the latter is dealing with eldritch matter. But, if truly the holy medium at the grand cathedral is Laurence's skull, that mean he transformed into a beast. Isn't it strange for someone who got warned to fear the old blood turned into a beast, not an eldritch being?


If The One Reborn have pair of wing, we could called it Corpse Dragon lol

Who is the guy at the top of the building with the first snakehead guy? He asks you about some safe location but he clearly just murdered three people he also has both eyes covered? I attacked him and he turned into a rather nasty beast with electricity about him,once you get him to half health he starts saying things about how it's not fair that you judge him as a beast thought you lust for killing is just as great as his.

 

[Beelzebufo]

No clue here. They're a real mystery to me. They seem like nomadic opportunist types, not really involved in the greater picture, they just appear from time to time to ruin your fucking day with their super saiyan vacuum cleaner into punch-stomp kick ultra combo.

In the Unseen Village, we see the note that "mad men" are trying to "beckon the moon". Clearly that's referring to the Mensis school trying to reach the Great Ones, not the kidnapper dudes.
(Mensis Cage description):

Once Rom is gone, super saiyan bagger boys get their shit fucked up by corpse werewolves, so they're clearly not on the same team as Mensis. You can find their bodies around, and they kindly leave Blood Stone chunks on them for you.

Bag Boys are (as far as I know) the only enemies that appear in both the normal game and the Pthumerian Labyrinth, outside of Bell Maidens. That suggests they are Pthumerian in origin, no? I have no idea why they would be in the gaol though.

 

[GorillaJu]

Was something supposed to happen with Patches? I just immediate killed him. He went down quick.

Nah, he gives you a rune and says you're welcome for introducing you to a great one. But perhaps you didn't notice that he has brothers. He exists in the nightmare realm only–if you go into the secret area of the Mensis nightmare with the chained up brain, you can find other spiders like him, that have human faces. They have bowl cuts and aren't bald like Patches. But there are a few of them.

 

[LiK]

Was something supposed to happen with Patches? I just immediate killed him. He went down quick.

I talked to him and he gave me a rune. I was glad I didn't attack him. he freaked me out at first when I saw this spider on a door, lol

 

[GorillaJu]

Bag Boys are (as far as I know) the only enemies that appear in both the normal game and the Pthumerian Labyrinth, outside of Bell Maidens. That suggests they are Pthumerian in origin, no?

Quite possibly. They are tall and skinny and have Pthumerian features. And I think the Titans and guys with staves outside the Grand Cathedral are Pthumerian as well. I'm 90% sure I heard ENB refer to them as "Pthumerian slaves" in one of his BB vids. Perhaps the bell they wear around their necks (both the Titans and the staff guys have bells) are part of the enslavement mechanism.

 

[Guevara]

Can I just say: Moon, mensis, blood, the little girl's red ribbon, the whore: "I don't work on the night of the hunt"...

Just what exactly are these games about.

 

[Shengar]

Who is the guy at the top of the building with the first snakehead guy? He asks you about some safe location but he clearly just murdered three people he also has both eyes covered? I attacked him and he turned into a rather nasty beast with electricity about him,once you get him to half health he starts saying things about how it's not fair that you judge him as a beast thought you lust for killing is just as great as his.

We don't know his clear identity. We just dubbed his as the Cannibal. The lack of equipment or one single rune drop doesn't help to uncover his identity either. But the information you just give is interesting though, since Father G also happened to bandaged his eye too. Both of them since able to retain their sanity (not so much for the former though) when they transform.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Can I just say: Moon, mensis, blood, the little girl's red ribbon, the whore: "I don't work on the night of the hunt"...

Just what exactly are these games about.

I mean it is called "Bloodborne" haha. I think it's pretty clear between the blood, the babies, and the secret ending.

 

[Yurt]

He was from the Church, but he split. His garb has the church scarf attached.

Some screenshots of stuff I found interesting:

There are blue flowers under ground in the chalice dungeons. that share the same shape as the staff Master Willem holds. Special plants I presume?



Here is a bed with tools on it (left) and the hunter's bed to the right. We know it is our bed because that is where you pick the Cainhurst summons, which are addressed to you, off of. Iosefka (the real one), transformed into a mushroom dude, can be found in this room, is non-hostile and drop's a Iosefka's blood vial. If you look at where my hunter is standing, you can see the chair with straps attached. I think that is where Iosefka was tied down and experimented on. ;_;



Here are detail shots of Queen Yharnam. You can see that she has bandage wrappings around her womb, and her wrists are shackled together. Clearly, she was shackled against her will and her baby was cut out from her stomach–probably by Mergo's Wet Nurse. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that she may have had an unnatural birth. I think he was right. And as you can see in the second picture, she is yearning toward her child, who is in the room just above. I think this is just an apparition, and part of the nightmare.



I'm sure you guys have encountered this guy in Chalice dungeons but I have not touched the Chalices since I'm not a huge fan of procedural content... but when I finally started them up, I noticed immediately that this non-hostile creature shares a very obvious resemblance to Queen Yharnam, such as a slender, meatless body, long neck and bony face, glowing pale skin, and he's very tall as well, like Yharnam. He must be Pthumerian. He is holding prayer beads in his hand. I didn't kill him.

good catch with the last two! They both look a lot like the Shadow of Yharnam mobs

 

[GorillaJu]

Who is the guy at the top of the building with the first snakehead guy? He asks you about some safe location but he clearly just murdered three people he also has both eyes covered? I attacked him and he turned into a rather nasty beast with electricity about him,once you get him to half health he starts saying things about how it's not fair that you judge him as a beast thought you lust for killing is just as great as his.

I think he may have been sick and received a lot of blood treatment, thus became a really powerful beast. I think the real reason he's there is because FromSoft created his beast, and at some point decided he wasn't a cool enough boss so they put him out in the world and replaced him with Paarl or Blood Starved Beast. We didn't see anything of Paarl until very late trailers, but the lightning beast that the woods NPC turns into can be seen in the OG Project Beast leak in the Tomb of the Good Chalice (Blood Starved Beast's area).

 

[Coconut]

We don't know his clear identity. We just dubbed his as the Cannibal. The lack of equipment or one single rune drop doesn't help to uncover his identity either. But the information you just give is interesting though, since Father G also happened to bandaged his eye too. Both of them since able to retain their sanity (not so much for the former though) when they transform.

Based on his phrasing when referring to you as a hunter I think it's safe to say that he is not a hunter. Also since he asks about a safe place to go id say that that also absolves him from being a possible Hunter you can also hear a beast as you approach that area but once you get to him there is no beast and the sound of a beast stops and since when you attack him is when he turns it would seem that this dude has some control over his transformation.

 

[Shengar]

I think he may have been sick and received a lot of blood treatment, thus became a really powerful beast. I think the real reason he's there is because FromSoft created his beast, and at some point decided he wasn't a cool enough boss so they put him out in the world and replaced him with Paarl or Blood Starved Beast. We didn't see anything of Paarl until very late trailers, but the lightning beast that the woods NPC turns into can be seen in the OG Project Beast leak in the Tomb of the Good Chalice (Blood Starved Beast's area).

Ah yes, this is make sense. I wish there is more of him though, not just random cannibal that you happened to found in the middle of forest.

 

[GorillaJu]

We don't know his clear identity. We just dubbed his as the Cannibal. The lack of equipment or one single rune drop doesn't help to uncover his identity either. But the information you just give is interesting though, since Father G also happened to bandaged his eye too. Both of them since able to retain their sanity (not so much for the former though) when they transform.

We've pseudo-established that people who cover their eyes are resisting the Great Ones. They're red-blooded. Almost all of the beast-transformed or mid-transformation enemies have cloths of some kind over their eyes. The beasts in OY have bandages around their eyes and some have hoods that cover them. Brick brute Solomon Grundy fuckers also have wraps around their eyes, and they are transforming as well (they have black werewolf tails just beginning to sprout). Father G wrapped his eyes. Wheelchair dude in intro wrapped his eyes. Cannibal guy wrapped his eyes. Amelia has a cloth that covers her eyes.

Where as the Mensis assholes want as many eyes as possible.

 

[SargerusBR]

Here are detail shots of Queen Yharnam. You can see that she has bandage wrappings around her womb, and her wrists are shackled together. Clearly, she was shackled against her will and her baby was cut out from her stomach–probably by Mergo's Wet Nurse. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that she may have had an unnatural birth. I think he was right. And as you can see in the second picture, she is yearning toward her child, who is in the room just above. I think this is just an apparition, and part of the nightmare.

Interesting tho when you fight her in the CD she's still pregnant.

 

[Coconut]

We've pseudo-established that people who cover their eyes are resisting the Great Ones. They're red-blooded. Almost all of the beast-transformed or mid-transformation enemies have cloths of some kind over their eyes. The beasts in OY have bandages around their eyes and some have hoods that cover them. Brick brute Solomon Grundy fuckers also have wraps around their eyes, and they are transforming as well (they have black werewolf tails just beginning to sprout). Father G wrapped his eyes. Wheelchair dude in intro wrapped his eyes. Cannibal guy wrapped his eyes. Amelia has a cloth that covers her eyes.

Where as the Mensis assholes want as many eyes as possible.

Seems like there are people who want to see the other side of things and then there's characters that have gained the power to see these other worldly things and don't want to them anymore. Or possibly these people have had eyes removed by the mensis folks for some reason and that's why they have their eyes covered?

 

[Kurtofan]

There's something very strange about that transition in the Forbidden wood to the Hunter mobs into the place with all the giant grave stones. It's very Alice in Wonderland since perspective gets all weird with the small bundles of snakes bundles of snakes and the big bundles of snakes and the small head stones juxtaposed with the fucking huge ones and the general typography of that area gets really twisted. It's the first place that you get to in the game that seems to step away from traditional gothic horror of vampires werewolves and sort of Frankenstein monsters and introduces the cosmic other worldly alien ideas of Lovecraft with those aliens in the valley on top of that every thing is sort of radiating colored light in spots in a very unnatural way. I found that whole area both disorienting and intoxicating (I loved it). Because of this and the fact that Brygensworth is supposed to be near the tombs of the old ones my guess is that the Shadow of Yarnham are their to prevent people from getting into the Tombs or finding Brygensworth research.

Mushrooms in the area look like Amygdala heads too.

 

[Auctopus]

Shadow of Yharnam frustrates me as their fight is pretty cheap and there's no lore justification for them being there, really.

I thought they're bodyguards of Yharnam, her shadow.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Beasthood is also clearly linked in opposition to the cosmic brings, since spending insight raises the beast meter.

So maybe there's like a Moon Presence/Yharnam vs cosmic beings thing going on? Maybe the Pthumerians just found the Moon Presence/Mergo's and their lot, not Kosm and Erbreitas and all that?

 

[Coconut]

Shadow of Yharnam frustrates me as their fight is pretty cheap and there's no lore justification for them being there, really.

I thought they're bodyguards of Yharnam, her shadow.

I see it to mean those who lurk around the city. Like how batman is the shadow of Gotham City. Like shadow of Yarnham os a title for an elite group of assassins or something tasked with special duties.

 

[Uthred]

Beasthood is also clearly linked in opposition to the cosmic brings, since spending insight raises the beast meter.

So maybe there's like a Moon Presence/Yharnam vs cosmic beings thing going on? Maybe the Pthumerians just found the Moon Presence/Mergo's and their lot, not Kosm and Erbreitas and all that?

I dont think that Beasthood/Human Instinct is enshrined/symbolically represented by any of the settings movers and shakers. Certainly not to the point where you have any kind of Us Vs Them concentrated oppoosition. The Moon Presence also seems to be an intrinsic part of the entire Great One birth process with is the opposite of Beasthood. Similarly its not clear how willing/unwilling Yharnam was to get kocked up by a Great One, while she's in fetters in Mensis Nightmare there are lots of possible explanations for that.

To wax lyrical for a moment, I think you can frame the conflict in the setting as the struggle of mans inner beast against his humanity, where instinct represents the beast and intellect represents humanity. However, as its a horror setting, these things are taken to extremes, unchecked instinct devolves man into beast and unchecked intellect turns humanity into post-human monstrosities. So while theres certainly a thematic Instinct vs Insight conflict at work I dont think thats fully personified in setting (beyond the idea that Instinct works against Intellect)

I see it to mean those who lurk around the city. Like how batman is the shadow of Gotham City. Like shadow of Yarnham os a title for an elite group of assassins or something tasked with special duties.

Never thought of it like that but now you point it out that certainly fits their visual design and abilties, cool idea

 

[GorillaJu]

Beasthood is also clearly linked in opposition to the cosmic brings, since spending insight raises the beast meter.

So maybe there's like a Moon Presence/Yharnam vs cosmic beings thing going on? Maybe the Pthumerians just found the Moon Presence/Mergo's and their lot, not Kosm and Erbreitas and all that?

I think spending insight doesn't actually raise beast meter, it makes your beast meter longer. I realized this when I equipped a bunch of frenzy resist gear and suddenly I had a half full frenzy bar that began decreasing. To me this indicated that increasing frenzy resist by 200 means your bar is 200 points longer, thus if takes 200 more units of time for your bar to fill.

If you transfer that to beast bar, +to beast mode on gear means your beast bar gets longer. Removing insight thus also lengthens your bar. This doesn't run counter to the idea that beast and great one (Paleblood?) are opposites, just on the mechanical side, I fhink less insight = bigger beast bar, not that losing insight increases your beast hood.

Shadow of Yharnam frustrates me as their fight is pretty cheap and there's no lore justification for them being there, really.

I thought they're bodyguards of Yharnam, her shadow.

Not justified? But they're right in front of Byrgenwerth, and who do appears in front of you at Byrgenwerth after defeating Rom? Queen Yharnam!

 

[Uthred]

If you transfer that to beast bar, +to beast mode on gear means your beast bar gets longer. Removing insight thus also lengthens your bar. This doesn't run counter to the idea that beast and great one (Paleblood?) are opposites, just on the mechanical side, I fhink less insight = bigger beast bar, not that losing insight increases your beast hood.

Perhaps you have, a maximum amount of "Inclination points" but its filled by both Insight and Beasthood, so if the bar was 100 points and you had 10 Insight you could only have 90 Beasthood, so when you spend Insight it looks like you're getting more Beasthood (and you technically are) but its really just returning to its default state (the default state being a normal human who has 0 insight and can come fully under the sway of Instinct i.e. reach max Beasthood). Interesting that while thematically Instinct (Beasthood) and Insight are opposite but "equal" whereas mechanically Insight trumps Instinct (Beasthood) in that it limits your Beasthood while the reverse isnt true (which makes sense I suppose if you consider Instinct to be the "default" inclination of humanity in setting and Insight is surpassing the default human condition)

 

[Raven Prime]

Has someone already noticed that the Pthumerians look a lot like the Prometheans?

And Pthumerian is an anagram of Prumethian.

 

[Victrix]

re: people wondering about the snake men etc, there's some lines somewhere about Brygenwerth working towards 'Metamorphosis', and a bunch of the runes are even named so.

I can't remember what document or quote I saw it on, but it's definitely there.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I dont think that Beasthood/Human Instinct is enshrined/symbolically represented by any of the settings movers and shakers. Certainly not to the point where you have any kind of Us Vs Them concentrated oppoosition. The Moon Presence also seems to be an intrinsic part of the entire Great One birth process with is the opposite of Beasthood. Similarly its not clear how willing/unwilling Yharnam was to get kocked up by a Great One, while she's in fetters in Mensis Nightmare there are lots of possible explanations for that.

To wax lyrical for a moment, I think you can frame the conflict in the setting as the struggle of mans inner beast against his humanity, where instinct represents the beast and intellect represents humanity. However, as its a horror setting, these things are taken to extremes, unchecked instinct devolves man into beast and unchecked intellect turns humanity into post-human monstrosities. So while theres certainly a thematic Instinct vs Insight conflict at work I dont think thats fully personified in setting (beyond the idea that Instinct works against Intellect)

Never thought of it like that but now you point it out that certainly fits their visual design and abilties, cool idea

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. I guess that does sort of tie together the central struggle nicely. How do you fit the non-human Great Ones into that though? A means to the intellectual downfall end? And where does the beast plague come from?

 

[Kurtofan]

What are the jesters in the nightmare of Mensis? Pthumerians?

Also, is Cleric Beast Ludwig?

 

[Uthred]

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. I guess that does sort of tie together the central struggle nicely. How do you fit the non-human Great Ones into that though? A means to the intellectual downfall end? And where does the beast plague come from?

Thematically I think the non-human/"original" Great Ones are meant to serve as a cautionary example of unchecked intellect (maybe theyre an allegory for unrestrained scientific advancement ). This quote from Call of Cthulhu sums up quite well the fate that emulating the Great Ones ultimately leads to:

The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.

The origins of the beast plague are a bit of a puzzler, it seems, given the Beasthood vs Insight setup, unlikely to have come from the Great Old ones directly. One idea I had was that the Hunters Dream is responsible for the beasts. After all a Hunter dreams of hunting and without the beasts what would he hunt?

Though earlier I noticed, the Beast rune description:

"A secret symbol left by Caryll, runesmith of Byrgenwerth. A transcription of the roar of a labyrinth beast, the bearer of the "Beast" rune has accentuated transformation effects. "Beast" is one of the early Caryll Runes. as well as one of the first to be deemed forbidden. The discovery of blood entailed the discovery of undesirable beasts."

When I read it earlier I thought it may have been literally talking about monsters found in the Labyrinth. But I was just thinking what if its more allegorical? Now infusing Great One derived blood clearly leads to unpleasant post-human results - eventually (and assuming a high purity). However the city of Yharnam and Hunters specifically (echo fiends) were addicted to blood, in the blood one can hear blood echoes, perhaps these echoes are of the bloods primal nature - in the case of Great Ones you get wiggly headed god stuff happening but in the case of human blood (which likely made up the bulk of blood ministration) you would be getting echoes of human instinct, which built upon one another as time went by and ultimately (possibly due to the reailty warping effects of trace Great One blood) they literally awakened the beast in humans?

So the plague of beasts is the result of the primal human blood echoes growing too strong in the blood (or to be flippant, its like magical AIDS, guess they should have used clean needles for their blood ministration).

Also came across something confusing in one or two of the item descriptions, specifically, the Eye rune

"A secret symbol left by Caryll, runesmith of Byrgenwerth. A transcription of "Eye," as spoken by left-behind Great Ones. Allows one to make additional discoveries. Eyes symbolize the truth Master Willem sought in his research. Disillusioned by the limits of human intellect. Master Willem looked to beings from higher planes for guidance, and sought to line his brain with eyes in order to elevate his thoughts."

and the Pearl slug material:

"Of the all the strange lifeforms that reside in the nooks and crannies of the old labyrinth, the slugs are clear signs of the left-behind Great Ones. "

What are the "left-behind" Great Ones? Who left them behind? When were they left behind and where were they left? Or maybe its just a wonky translation.

Also noticed that the Eye rune

is blatantly the Elder Sign

re: people wondering about the snake men etc, there's some lines somewhere about Brygenwerth working towards 'Metamorphosis', and a bunch of the runes are even named so.

I can't remember what document or quote I saw it on, but it's definitely there.

I think you're talking about this "The discovery of blood made their dream of evolution a reality. Metamorphosis. and the excesses and deviation that followed. was only the beginning."? Its on a few of the runes.

 

[Beelzebufo]

What are the jesters in the nightmare of Mensis? Pthumerians?

Also, is Cleric Beast Ludwig?

That'd make sense, but you'd think the holy blade badge would be there, yeah? Paarl could be Arch too

 

[Coconut]

That'd make sense, but you'd think the holy blade badge would be there, yeah? Paarl could be Arch too

You'd also think that due to the beasts poisoning nature that weapons related to Ludwig would have some type of poison positive trait.

Wait why are those beasts in that area even poisonous?

 

[Uthred]

You'd also think that due to the beasts poisoning nature that weapons related to Ludwig would have some type of poison positive trait.

Wait why are those beasts in that area even poisonous?

Ludwig's clearly resting up in his secret bunker and the DLC is going to be you teaming up with Ludwig to ride Mecha-Moon Presence (built by the secret Church Workshop) into the sea that Yharnam/Cainhurst seem to be in/beside so you can fight NotCthulhu.

 

[Coconut]

Ludwig's clearly resting up in his secret bunker and the DLC is going to be you teaming up with Ludwig to ride Mecha-Moon Presence (built by the secret Church Workshop) into the sea that Yharnam/Cainhurst seem to be in/beside so you can fight NotCthulhu.

As long as there is a turret sequence in this DLC I'm into it.

 

[zennyzz]

That'd make sense, but you'd think the holy blade badge would be there, yeah? Paarl could be Arch too

I figured the cleric beast was the captain of the current church hunters.

I doubt Ludwig, who should be long dead by this point would be some generic cleric turned beast.

You'd also think that due to the beasts poisoning nature that weapons related to Ludwig would have some type of poison positive trait.

Wait why are those beasts in that area even poisonous?

look at the description for Antidote. Poison is actually Ashen blood and Ashen blood is the source of the plague.

 

[poodpick]

Does anyone that's familiar with Latin want to translate the lyrics of 'Hail the Nightmare'?

It's the music that plays in Hypogeon Gaol

 

[pantsmith]

What's the deal with Shadow of Yharnam?

Given where you fight them, at the edge of the Forbidden Forest, a good guess would be that they are there to guard the entrance to Byrgenwerth. "Shadow" denotes secrecy, and it would make sense that they are some kind of hidden order, maybe spies or assassins, who are tasked with keeping the church's secrets. This fits with how strong they are, that they are clad in black, and that they fight as a unit.

Why snakes?

My read of the snakes was that they are the first signs of the weird alien shit creeping into the natural world. Snakes lumping together to form *anything* is horrifying, but they also come across as crude imitations of the Old Ones, mostly the tentacles, and a neat visual metaphor for that pervasive influence that you're starting to see all around you.

They might also just be a personal touch; if some people, like Rom, became hideous bug creatures so that they could have more eyes (and thus deeper sight/insight), I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that others (assassins) might adopt the characteristics of a rapid-striking, venomous killer.

We don't really know how this augmentation works, but you could probably write a formula like "blood + aliens = x" and explain a lot of the plot.

ALSO, given the religious undertones you've been exposed to already, encountering snakes in forbidden gardens paints a lot of specific undertones.

 

[zennyzz]

I just noticed, all the ghosts at cainhurst are members of the nobles bound and brutally executed.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I just noticed, all the ghosts at cainhurst are members of the nobles bound and brutally executed.

Wait. As in, the women with knives?

 

[zennyzz]

Wait. As in, the women with knives?

yep. If you notice. They're blindfolded and they all wear the noble dress of cainhurst.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

yep. If you notice. They're blindfolded and they all wear the noble dress of cainhurst.

Hmmm. That's really interesting! I thought the name of the enemy had "widow" in the title. If they're not executed nobles (which they of course could be!), they could also be the wives of nobles who were, which explains the sheer number of them and why they're sobbing, no?

 

[zennyzz]

Hmmm. That's really interesting! I thought the name of the enemy had "widow" in the title. If they're not executed nobles (which they of course could be!), they could also be the wives of nobles who were, which explains the sheer number of them and why they're sobbing, no?

Wives of nobles are still nobles. And they're rather clearly been murdered. I figured they were crying due to their lot in life.

I'm still trying to gauge whether Arianna is a cainhurst, a lot points to it.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I figured the cleric beast was the captain of the current church hunters.

I doubt Ludwig, who should be long dead by this point would be some generic cleric turned beast.



look at the description for Antidote. Poison is actually Ashen blood and Ashen blood is the source of the plague.

Why wouldn't Ludwig be alive? All of the other people from before even his time are, right?

 

[zennyzz]

Why wouldn't Ludwig be alive? All of the other people from before even his time are, right?

Oh I don't doubt he's alive. But I doubt he's alive in a fashion of still heading the Church Hunters.

Not counting that Cleric beast doesn't hold the badge that would represent ludwig(he's got the regular badge, not the holy blade).

I figure Ludwig would be something along the lines of Logarius rather than Cleric Beast or Vicar Amelia

I also don't think Paarl is Archibald. I suspect Paarl's just a friend of his.

 

[Aztechnology]

Just entertaining a theory here, but what if the majority of the game is experienced as "memories" (knowledge) that take place after the administering of the blood. All of the things that happen in the nightmares and "waking world" have already come to pass. in experiencing the "memories" we're gaining insight and provided we've imbibed enough knowledge (the Umbilical chords) then we are able to transcend human/beasthood and become an infant great one. If not then we awaken to find we have not trascended, or have only gained enough knowledge to become the new guide. "The Hunt" in its entirety is about finding one worthy of transcending. Hence why during the ending where you take Gehrman's place the doll says "And so, the Hunt begins again."

 

[Coconut]

Oh I don't doubt he's alive. But I doubt he's alive in a fashion of still heading the Church Hunters.

Not counting that Cleric beast doesn't hold the badge that would represent ludwig(he's got the regular badge, not the holy blade).

I figure Ludwig would be something along the lines of Logarius rather than Cleric Beast or Vicar Amelia

I also don't think Paarl is Archibald. I suspect Paarl's just a friend of his.

Would Ludwig be counted as part of th choir?

 

[Finalow]

any idea on who's the guy in the first cutscene? He's similar to Gehrman but he's clearly not the same guy as the Gehrman you see/fight in the Hunter's dream.

Its pretty cool how interconnected the world is physically, if you go to the end of the broken bridge in Cainhurst you can see the various areas of Yharnam like the Grand Cathedral and such

how do you actually get there though? Flying horses?

 

[zennyzz]

Would Ludwig be counted as part of th choir?

Maybe? He predates it. It really depends on what Ludwig's drive is. All we really know is that he established the hunter section of the healing church. He could be well versed in Byrgenwerth's dealings, or merely a hunter with great faith that believed the church required an arm to deal with the beasts.

 

[Kurtofan]

Is Master Willem brain dead or something?

 

[Aztechnology]

Is Master Willem brain dead or something?

He's seen shit man, too much shit.

Just entertaining a theory here, but what if the majority of the game is experienced as "memories" (knowledge) that take place after the administering of the blood. All of the things that happen in the nightmares and "waking world" have already come to pass. in experiencing the "memories" we're gaining insight and provided we've imbibed enough knowledge (the Umbilical chords) then we are able to transcend human/beasthood and become an infant great one. If not then we awaken to find we have not trascended, or have only gained enough knowledge to become the new guide. "The Hunt" in its entirety is about finding one worthy of transcending. Hence why during the ending where you take Gehrman's place the doll says "And so, the Hunt begins again."

Edit: Also quoting for new page, hopefully someone can either crush this theory or reaffirm it so the thought process doesn't bug me all day.