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Bloomberg Poll: Hillary Clinton more unpopular than Donald Trump
- Thread starter Schattenjäger
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eBay Huckster
Member
pretty sure sexism did play a pretty decently big part in how last year went, but you do you, Man Who Unironically Thinks Donald Trump Will Pass Single-Payer
I don't disagree with this. I think her choice to use her most visible moments to attack Trump was a mistake.
But I ALSO acknowledge that it was a mistake made by a campaign to that saw none of their policy talk breaking through.
And this is the OTHER thing people who blindly hate Hillary like to ignore. Hillary is a wonk, she LOVES discussing policy. That's her wheelhouse. But the media reality last year was Trump sucking the air out of the room. Frankly, the only time Hillary got coverage, the only time ANYONE got coverage, was when they were discussing Trump.
Again, this doesn't absolve Hillary of the mistakes her campaign made, but anyone who wants to acknowledge that we live in a world more complicated than "FUCK HILLARY, Trump should have been a layup...even though he beat everyone" needs to explore all the reasons for why 2016 played out like it did.
Green Yoshi
Member
Trump should care about her. Because he will lose against her in 2020.
I don't think that Sanders&Warren supporters will take over control in the Democratic party.
Everyone hating on her for losing should remind themselves that actualy people voted for Trump. Those are the people responsible, not her. People decided that a racist, offensive, sexist, lying, stupid buffoon would be the better alternative to her and those people bear 100% of the blame.
More than anything this poll shows me that the US got exactly the president the country at large deserved. Sorry US-GAF :/
More than anything this poll shows me that the US got exactly the president the country at large deserved. Sorry US-GAF :/
Fulminator
Member
Same
I don't think there's any chance she will win a presidential election after this past cycle tbh
legacyzero
Banned
WOO I see you makin that passive aggressive post directed at me.
For one, naw. If anything Racism played a bigger role than Sexism, and that wasn't even directed towards Hillary. It's easy to say a Sexism played a role just because she lost. It's just as quantifiable as walking around a college campus asking young folks why they'd vote for Hillary, and their only reason was BECAUSE she's a woman. Sorry, some of us voters aren't single issue. And I'd put my own goddamn mom in office is I could.
And no, I didn't say Trump will push it. I said it could be a power play for the GOP now that AHCA is deadish. Don't put words in my mouth please. And if you're gonna come at me, at least quote me.
IrishNinja
Member
true but this is also a Schattenjäger thread
Unknown Soldier
Member
The Democratic primary system was so hilariously broken and corrupt. Say what you will about the Republicans, but not only did their primary process choose their strongest candidate, their candidate went on to be elected President.
Tyraniboah
Member
I didn't like her either, but Hillary was unquestionably the better person suited to run the country. I told everybody going on about Hillary's fucking emails and some of the questionable funding she had in her foundation that Trump is no stranger to scandal or shady dealings. Lo and behold the corruption in his administration is much, much worse that we could have predicted.
All that said, stop blaming people that didn't vote for either major candidate. They have a right to vote other parties or even not vote. This is why we need other parties to speak up outside of election years. This seemed like the right kind of election for any number of other parties to step in and make themselves heard by people that didn't want anything to do with Republicans or Democrats. For the most part, Libertarians and the Green Party gained quite a bit of steam on social media. We all know they didn't stand a chance, however they are nowhere to be found right now. They need to identify winnable local, state, and federal elections and start making their respective platforms known. This doesn't have to be a two party system, but it will stay that way every time we stop and point fingers at people turned off by the prospect of voting for the lesser evil. We deserve a better system and we are the only ones that can make that happen.
Hillary isn't running again and she'd be running the risk of losing again. There is a lot of vitriol directed towards her from just about everybody on the right, many in the center, and many people that lean left prefer Bernie and Warren. A lot of kids coming of age over the next couple of election cycles seem to prefer more progressive candidates. It's not enough to run as a Democrat and say "at least I'm not a Republican". Younger people want to vote for somebody, not vote against the other party.
All that said, stop blaming people that didn't vote for either major candidate. They have a right to vote other parties or even not vote. This is why we need other parties to speak up outside of election years. This seemed like the right kind of election for any number of other parties to step in and make themselves heard by people that didn't want anything to do with Republicans or Democrats. For the most part, Libertarians and the Green Party gained quite a bit of steam on social media. We all know they didn't stand a chance, however they are nowhere to be found right now. They need to identify winnable local, state, and federal elections and start making their respective platforms known. This doesn't have to be a two party system, but it will stay that way every time we stop and point fingers at people turned off by the prospect of voting for the lesser evil. We deserve a better system and we are the only ones that can make that happen.
Hillary isn't running again and she'd be running the risk of losing again. There is a lot of vitriol directed towards her from just about everybody on the right, many in the center, and many people that lean left prefer Bernie and Warren. A lot of kids coming of age over the next couple of election cycles seem to prefer more progressive candidates. It's not enough to run as a Democrat and say "at least I'm not a Republican". Younger people want to vote for somebody, not vote against the other party.
eBay Huckster
Member
you know, you could at least pretend to have a stance in this thread that doesn't rely entirely on "nuh uh!"
legacyzero
Banned
I mean... aren't we just stating he obvious here? I'm halfway through the article and I see this-
All those sexist voters who didn't vote for Clinton. How sexist of them.
This is bullshit, she won the most votes in the primaries fair and square. That she lost in the general election doesn't change that.
IrishNinja
Member
this is hilarious coming from such a diehard berniebro, nevermind ignoring how decades of GOP framing of hillary doesn't equate sexism somehow
I was gonna chastise you for replying to unknown but look at me here with clownshoes
minor effort
Banned
So the same GOP primary process which selected losing candidates in 2008 and 2012?
Im not saying the Democratic primary process is perfect or completely spotless, but this seems like a rather flimsy comparison.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
People don't like a loser. Its no surprise she would be unpopular. Not only are moderates/conservatives going to dislike her, a lot of liberals dislike her for losing.
legacyzero
Banned
Yeah, I stopped taking your post seriously the moment you labeled me a "BernieBro" lol.
And in those decades of smear, you conveniently ignore the actual bad shit she did. For reasons. /Shrug
SolidSnakeX already fielded that one
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=243835290
IrishNinja
Member
is this a serious question? have you paid attention to executive orders, cabinet actions (particularly sessions, devos, tillerson) etc?
lolol you've not taken that cape off for high sparrow bernie yet, and manifest in each of these threads to clearly show it
oh okay, a post grabbing at a few examples over decades of public service - boy howdy, guess she deserved that sexism which played no factor despite numerous studies & write-ups in this very thread
They spent 20 years building a narrative against her. That sort of momentum just doesn't 'stop' just because it stops mattering.
Motherfuckers gonna be dropping how much they hate Clinton in 2020 for no damn reason. Just reflex.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
that's the best you can come against Hillary? comments which she apologized for? that's it??? this country has no hope.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Will she run on the strong point of "I am still not Trump"?
It would be a disaster if the Democrats let her run again. I really don't want 7 more years of Trump. 3 will be hard enough on the world.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I honestly wonder when we'll finally be able to move on from re-litigating the 2016 general election and primaries. I feel like so many Trump people can't move on from the glory days when Trump was running against Hillary. Simultaneously, I feel like so many on the left are simply incapable of moving on from the Democratic primary arguments.
eBay Huckster
Member
hrm, yes, "sexism as a crutch" -> study showing all but a handful of non-clinton voters were dramatically more sexist in their actual views (to say nothing about the fact that Biden, who if anything was even more toxic wrt racism in both directions, was and is considerably more popular) -> "we're just stating the obvious"
bear in mind i'm literally only taking issue with the concept that sexism only played a bit part.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thank you
enough going in circles
Whats our future look like because it seems like no one is talking about 2020 at all... which makes sense
2020 at the very earliest, I assume 2024 to be more likely.
Other than robust protections for the racists and misogynists, what exactly are the policy goals that you care about?
Everyone's pining for the glory days of relevance and popularity.
legacyzero
Banned
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
i hope soon.
My boyfriend (who voted for Hillary) says every time he sees her that he still gets flashbacks to the way she whiffed on the election.
Should NOT be surprising that she's not that popular; and it honestly shouldn't matter... Relitigating the 2016 election will be the death of us.
And honestly we shouldn't be surprised if constantly relitigating 2016 is one of Russia's new fake news / bot / troll initiatives
I'm not implying it. You spend every other post in this thread apologizing for racists and misogynist. Cool. So now that we've put the whole "Trump didn't lose because of racism!!!1" takes to the side.
What exactly do you care about? Because it sounds an awful lot like you're criticizing without providing an alternative positive agenda.
Now who does that remind me of....
legacyzero
Banned
I think reflection is necessary. Once we can all find a middle ground and find a way forward, (IMO) it should be a discussion that continues. How can one learn and act for the future, without reflecting and self-assessing past mistakes.
TumblingHippo
Member
Yeah it's not really surprising.
While she's no way as bad as trump, she'll still be known forever, by most people across the board, as an establishment neoliberal charisma-vacuum that managed to lose against what should've been an assured victory. People from the right obviously hate her. A lot of people from the left, specifically socialists, don't like her at all either (or rather, the party she represents). Even here in europe she wasn't especially popular, especially in my most socialist circles. Heck I don't like her. Not nearly as much as Trump but still, even if she would've been miles better obviously
Result is that a lot of people who just feel angry misplace their anger against her rather than trump. A lot see trump as the obvious tumor, eating away but more see Clinton as the doctor who failed to remove it
While she's no way as bad as trump, she'll still be known forever, by most people across the board, as an establishment neoliberal charisma-vacuum that managed to lose against what should've been an assured victory. People from the right obviously hate her. A lot of people from the left, specifically socialists, don't like her at all either (or rather, the party she represents). Even here in europe she wasn't especially popular, especially in my most socialist circles. Heck I don't like her. Not nearly as much as Trump but still, even if she would've been miles better obviously
Result is that a lot of people who just feel angry misplace their anger against her rather than trump. A lot see trump as the obvious tumor, eating away but more see Clinton as the doctor who failed to remove it
Steve Youngblood
Member
There's reflecting and learning from one's mistakes and then there's living in the past. At some point one has to accept that the war is over, that you either won or lost, and move on.
legacyzero
Banned
Aren't we kinda doing both, though? We all know we all lost the war here but what is the way that we can all find common ground?
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, I mean if you're on the Democratic side I can tell you how NOT to find common ground:
Carry on arguing each other as though this is Spring 2016 and we are right in the middle of the Bernie vs. Hillary battle for the Democratic nomination.
gutter_trash
Banned
dislike for Hillary Clinton is 100% irrational, fueled by false perceptions and 30 year smear job.
Never forget that Hillary worked hard for Hillarycare in 1993 that was destroyed by Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans
Never forget that Hillary worked hard for Hillarycare in 1993 that was destroyed by Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans
minor effort
Banned
At the risk of sounding glib and reductive, by Democrats mutually acknowledging that both leading Democratic candidates in 2016 lost due to choices made by their respective campaigns.
Oh boy you aint seen nuthing, I got called an alt-right Tory supporting Nazi because I dared to insult their Queen.
The war isn't really over. The direction of our party hasn't been determined yet. You still have the Sanders camp on the left and the establishment Dems more towards the center. So we keep re-litigating the primary because that fight never really ended.
Hopefully in 2018 but more likely in 2020 we will have a better idea of the future of the Democratic Party.
eBay Huckster
Member
wait, but the tories are royalists
presumably, they'll gauge where to go based on how this "Better Deal" plays out
Well, me personally, I was really counting on her winning this. Many aspects of my life depended on her winning this. And while the one to blame the most are the people who voted for Trump and the media for putting him in the spotlight, I can't help but be resentful to her for fucking up what should have been a winnable election. And the thing is, there are several missteps in her campaign that along with various external factors and opposition attack caused her to be defeated. Basically, she suffered a death of a thousand cuts. But even holding a successful campaign would have edged her into the win due to how close the election was. So yeah, I put some responsibility onto her, and quiet honestly, every time I see her, all my mind flashes back to is the missed opportunity and how screwed I am, so I can't bear to see her anymore.
Well there is only one Queen you see, you know the one who owned 25% of the world.
The dirty truth nobody wants to admit (because it goes against their ulterior motive of co-opting the party into MY DIRECTION) is if the Democratic party stands for "not Donald Trump" in 2018, it will be enough to win.
The first midterm is always bad for the President's party - and that's when they have good approval ratings.
(The second dirty truth is that the policy differences between the Sanders wing and the establishment wing are incredibly small and basically amount to trade and guns (?!?).)
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