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Bloomberg: Why PlayStation Fans Are Cheering CEO’s Departure

Killjoy-NL

Member
They are spending the exact same on non-live service games (actually a little more), while expanding their investment into Live Service games to support the studios they purchased that are making them.

There is no shift of focus. There is only an expansion of their portfolio... but I guess facts like that aren't sexy or clickbait enough to make for a good narrative.
This, but you put it in better words.

They need to invest in the area where they are lacking.
 

DrFigs

Member
They are buying devs to run sony out of business. i thought that was clear from the emails?

Once its all said and done, and sony is no longer in the picture, they will NOT be eating the cost to get these very expensive servers up and running for a launch that will have 50 million people logging in for the first night. nah, they will have the user spend $500-1000 like they do today, and then enjoy the monopoly for the next ten to fifteen years without being rushed into getting a new console out. But they will NOT be pushing everyone to the cloud.

Cloud gaming vs netflix streaming are too very different things. the GPUs required for these things are ridiculously expensive. you can stream shit from a bunch of computers with ssds. cloud gaming is extremely expensive and will never replace console gaming. ever.
how many gaas attempts do you think it will take to replace the lost revenue from 1 call of duty game? honest question
 

Saber

Member
An article dedicated to explain why people cheer on PS Ceo departure, wow
Would be a good use for a toilet paper if was made of paper.
 

Topher

Identifies as young

Fair enough, it's not to say focus on GaaS wasn't Jim Ryan's idea, but I'm willing to bet it was more Layden's idea, as it apparently was his idea to bring their titles to PC as well.
Since that would primarily be multiplayer titles, it would be the most logical conclusion.

Sure.....but even then Jim Ryan had to sign off on the strategy. It was his call to make. To your point, absolutely Layden had a big part to play in that. And for the record, that is one of the moves that I think Sony did during that time period that was a good one.
 

reinking

Gold Member
Why? Gaming will just lose money and status if dumb CEOs want to force every game to be GAAS.



Or we can just find other hobbies to spend our money on. Only a stupid CEO would force their consumers to buy something that there's not enough demand for. Pure IDIOT CEOs.
Poor context on my part. I meant that Sony has to adapt. It's not like they are doing away with single player games.
 
I am not sure why people expect Sony to pivot from GaaS. They literally cannot rely on their single player games anymore as they are too expensive and takes too much time to produce.
 

Crayon

Member
They are spending the exact same on non-live service games (actually a little more), while expanding their investment into Live Service games to support the studios they purchased that are making them.

There is no shift of focus. There is only an expansion of their portfolio... but I guess facts like that aren't sexy or clickbait enough to make for a good narrative.

This is what I'm talking about. "A lot of people are saying" is just not good enough. In fact the last two responses I got from THE DUCK were using the argument that "everyone on the internet thought..." to explain why it was right to be wrong. And my being right was actually my failing for thinking I was smarter than everyone else and going against the grain.

I
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
We don't have enough information to say that they're not heavily investing in single player games? there's very little communication about what their first party studios are doing. multiplayer has been an area where sony is seriously lacking. now that MS will probably own call of duty, overwatch, and diablo. Yeah they something.
again,read their charts. they are increasing their first party budget but nearly all the new investment is going into gaas.

they are clearly not keeping up with the rising costs of making single player AAA games.

i-worry-people-are-misunderstanding-sonys-plan-for-future-v0-i921qt30aacb1.jpg


Their single player budget in 2025 is the same as their single player budget in 2019. This is not going to be enough as games get more and more expensive. They are going to lag behind. We are already seeing this. 45% this year. A massive decrease since 2019. Only spiderman 2 coming out. Its clear their focus on investing in gaas has hurt their sp games production.
 

graywolf323

Member
again,read their charts. they are increasing their first party budget but nearly all the new investment is going into gaas.

they are clearly not keeping up with the rising costs of making single player AAA games.

i-worry-people-are-misunderstanding-sonys-plan-for-future-v0-i921qt30aacb1.jpg


Their single player budget in 2025 is the same as their single player budget in 2019. This is not going to be enough as games get more and more expensive. They are going to lag behind. We are already seeing this. 45% this year. A massive decrease since 2019. Only spiderman 2 coming out. Its clear their focus on investing in gaas has hurt their sp games production.
you might wanna see an eye doctor because that’s just not true, based on that graph their estimated budget for SP in 2025 is nearly as much as their entire budget in 2019 (more than just the SP)
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Sure.....but even then Jim Ryan had to sign off on the strategy. It was his call to make. To your point, absolutely Layden had a big part to play in that. And for the record, that is one of the moves that I think Sony did during that time period that was a good one.
Well, yeah, ultimately it was Jim Ryan's call. But I think it was a matter of "sure, makes sense".
And I agree, it was a good decision.

That's why I don't get the hate for Jim Ryan.
Sony seems to be making all the right decisions, or at the very least decisions that make a lot of sense. Like Sony stated, they need to rely less on 3rd party, since the industry is changing and especially with MS throwing money around.
GaaS is a necessity to generate the revenue needed to continue releasing their AAA-titles, the very thing that makes Playstation succesful.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Why? Gaming will just lose money and status if dumb CEOs want to force every game to be GAAS.



Or we can just find other hobbies to spend our money on. Only a stupid CEO would force their consumers to buy something that there's not enough demand for. Pure IDIOT CEOs.



Yall said consoles were dead 10 years ago and yet here we are breaking records today. There's no high demand for a console\PC-less future. So why are you personally wanting it so bad?



But we know Microsoft is the worse video game platform holder of the big three. And it's due to their terrible decisions. So don't use MS as a measuring stick.
No one said consoles were dead 10 years ago. 😂😂

But now we have iPhones that will probably catch up to the base ps5 before the ps5 life is over. You have to be blind to not see what the future will be 20 years from now.

And you know it’s actually a bit of brain washing on the industries part. They have cultivated so much fanboy cheering that you guys are not even asking the real questions. Like that since everything is going digital and all platforms run off the same basic hardware and same basic apis.. why are we being charge for each platform? Why are we not screaming fora unified license??.. that we buy one license and play on any device that has the game!? Instead we are too worried about who has 5 more frames a sec on our favorite piece of plastic. 😵‍💫
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
again,read their charts. they are increasing their first party budget but nearly all the new investment is going into gaas.

they are clearly not keeping up with the rising costs of making single player AAA games.

i-worry-people-are-misunderstanding-sonys-plan-for-future-v0-i921qt30aacb1.jpg


Their single player budget in 2025 is the same as their single player budget in 2019. This is not going to be enough as games get more and more expensive. They are going to lag behind. We are already seeing this. 45% this year. A massive decrease since 2019. Only spiderman 2 coming out. Its clear their focus on investing in gaas has hurt their sp games production.
What were the exact numbers relating to these graphs? Do you have that as well without me having to search it?

I personally do not trust these types of graphs as being indicative of anything
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Well, yeah, ultimately it was Jim Ryan's call. But I think it was a matter of "sure, makes sense".
And I agree, it was a good decision.

That's why I don't get the hate for Jim Ryan.
Sony seems to be making all the right decisions, or at the very least decisions that make a lot of sense. Like Sony stated, they need to rely less on 3rd party, since the industry is changing and especially with MS throwing money around.
GaaS is a necessity to generate the revenue needed to continue releasing their AAA-titles, the very thing that makes Playstation succesful.

One good decision doesn't automatically make the others good or bad. It remains to be seen if this mass movement into Gaas was wise or not. I don't like it and so naturally I don't care for the direction Ryan has taken PlayStation. But if it helps Sony make more of the great games that made me a PS fan in the first place then I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
No one said consoles were dead 10 years ago. 😂😂

But now we have iPhones that will probably catch up to the base ps5 before the ps5 life is over. You have to be blind to not see what the future will be 20 years from now.

And you know it’s actually a bit of brain washing on the industries part. They have cultivated so much fanboy cheering that you guys are not even asking the real questions. Like that since everything is going digital and all platforms run off the same basic hardware and same basic apis.. why are we being charge for each platform? Why are we not screaming fora unified license??.. that we buy one license and play on any device that has the game!? Instead we are too worried about who has 5 more frames a sec on our favorite piece of plastic. 😵‍💫
So, GamePass?
That's a road leading to nowhere. It's already stagnant.

And mobile phones won't replace traditional consoles for the foreseeable future.

Weird takes, tbh.
 
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Bungie

Member
Sony has a 10 year deal with COD. So assuming MS cuts the cord in 2033, Sony and their fans won have to worry about COD disappearing until PS7 is around the corner.
Microsoft doesn't need to cut call of duty away in 10 years. They have the upper hand of having all new call of duty titles day 1 on gamepass, there's tons of people who would much rather get Cod day 1 for $10. It'll stay on Playstation & they can happily pay $70+. Microsoft is betting on people to switch based on that gamepass deal, not making it exclusive
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
One good decision doesn't automatically make the others good or bad. It remains to be seen if this mass movement into Gaas was wise or not. I don't like it and so naturally I don't care for the direction Ryan has taken PlayStation. But if it helps Sony make more of the great games that made me a PS fan in the first place then I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
What other way is there to keep releasing AAA-titles without the revenue of GaaS?
Honest question.

Since costs are increasing, they need to get the funds from somewhere and releasing singleplayer after singleplayer game can only get you so far, especially in this day and age where games like Fortnite, Warzone, Apex Legends are making shittons of money at a steady pace.
 

DrFigs

Member
again,read their charts. they are increasing their first party budget but nearly all the new investment is going into gaas.

they are clearly not keeping up with the rising costs of making single player AAA games.

i-worry-people-are-misunderstanding-sonys-plan-for-future-v0-i921qt30aacb1.jpg


Their single player budget in 2025 is the same as their single player budget in 2019. This is not going to be enough as games get more and more expensive. They are going to lag behind. We are already seeing this. 45% this year. A massive decrease since 2019. Only spiderman 2 coming out. Its clear their focus on investing in gaas has hurt their sp games production.
I see why this graph is potentially problematic. it's just that without knowing what games sony are working on, i don't think we should be alarmist about it. maybe there is something about live service games where they're just more expensive to make, so that even a modest increase in their production overshadows spending on other types of games. i don't know to what extent sony is counting mlb the show or gran turismo as live service games, or investments in bungie, haven, etc as spending on live service games. Investments in those studios wouldn't mean that santa monica, naughty dog, etc would be making less single player games. I don't know if this data is including third party titles like foamstars, genshin impact, etc. In those cases, sony is paying for exclusivity, but that has no effect on their first party output at all. there's just a lot of variables. what's really at issue i think is their lack of communication on what games they're making.

but also, i think we're just disagreeing on whether this is actually an issue for sony. i think the lack of ANY major multiplayer games has been a huge problem for sony since the ps3. And it seems like they completely gave up on it during the ps4 era. where microsoft and nintendo make these huge gaas titles, and especially MS is just buying out games that sony used to be able to rely on. they need to make these investments to stay afloat. if MS decides to make COD, overwatch (3?), minecraft, exclusive. what is sony gonna do about it w/ just their lineup of single player games. that's a huge chunk of their audience.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Maybe? I do not necessarily agree with the link but you would have to be blind to not see the seismic shift in the industry. Nintendo will probably come around to it too.

https://guidefall.com/nintendos-relationship-to-games-as-a-service-has-to-change/
Yeah, I am sure Nitnendo saw 12 million sales week one of a single player zelda and decided to change course. Or Hogwarts which made $850 million in revenue in a month despite being a single player next gen only release. Or the year's biggest release Baldur's Gate which almost hit 850k concurrent users on steam, the biggest sine Elden Ring and Cyberpunk which both sold 12 million copies in the first month alone.

I honestly dont know of this seismisc shift. This year alone we saw
- Dead Space remake
- Forspoken
- Hogwarts
- RE4
- Dead Island 2
- HiFi Rush
- Star Wars Survivor
- Zelda
- FF16
- Baldurs Gate
- Armored Core
- Starfield
- Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty
- Remnant 2
- Immortals

Almost all of them sold really well. Even the disappointing ones like FF16 sold 3 million in a month. And we have a few more to come:

- Spiderman 2
- Alan Wake 2
- Avatar

All massive single player games. Almost all of them hits. Only Forspoken and Immortals flopped. Which isnt bad considering thats a 90% success rate. As opposed to gaas trash which has a 95% failure rate.

Epic just laid off 900 people. Thats the biggest F2P game developer out there. Struggling. Sony is betting on the wrong horse. And I hope someone at sony saw those sales of SP games and said why the fuck did we invest 60% of our budget on gaas trash?!?!?! and fired his ass.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Raising prices and Sony has done that.
Would still end up in this very same situation, whether you like it or not.

Edit:

Obviously they also want to make profit, but that's obvious. They're running a business.

The gaming community can be really narrow-minded sometimes.
 
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Edgelord79

Gold Member
Raising prices and Sony has done that. I don't believe for a second Gaas is meant to fund AAA traditional. Sony sees it as its own pot of gold. Again, we will see.
Agreed. If GaaS strategy succeeds for them, what impetus is there to continue the single player experience. Why would they just make the next horizon game a gaas? Why fund something that takes so much to make?
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Agreed. If GaaS strategy succeeds for them, what impetus is there to continue the single player experience. Why would they just make the next horizon game a gaas? Why fund something that takes so much to make?

Investors will be asking those same exact questions, won't they?
 

DrFigs

Member
Agreed. If GaaS strategy succeeds for them, what impetus is there to continue the single player experience. Why would they just make the next horizon game a gaas? Why fund something that takes so much to make?
I imagine it's the same reason xbox continues to make single player games despite minecraft, Halo, sea of thieves, and forza doing well. or why nintendo continues to make single player games, despite mario kart, splatoon, and smash bros doing really well.

but yeah totally sony has GT7 and uh... uhmmm??? destruction all stars. that's probably as good as those other games i listed above. they probably dont need more than these.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Member
Agreed. If GaaS strategy succeeds for them, what impetus is there to continue the single player experience. Why would they just make the next horizon game a gaas? Why fund something that takes so much to make?
Because those singleplayer games are the reason Sony has been killing it since PS4.
The very same gen it was being said that singleplayer games were dead.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
I imagine it's the same reason xbox continues to make single player games despite minecraft, Halo, sea of thieves, and forza doing well. or why nintendo continues to make single player games, despite mario kart, splatoon, and smash bros doing really well.
Are the majority of Xbox studio games single player games or gaas?
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
Because those singleplayer games are the reason Sony has been killing it since PS4.
The very same gen it was being said that singleplayer games were dead.
While that was true, that doesn’t mean that it’s the future. I have no clue what their projection teams show.
 

DrFigs

Member
Are the majority of Xbox studio games single player games or gaas?
i don't know if the majority of sony's future output in the next few years are gaas games. the graph that was posted doesn't tell us this. what i can fairly confidently say is that once the Activision/blizzard deal goes through, is that the majority of microsoft's investments in games will be for gaas titles, if it isn't already.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
Yeah, I am sure Nitnendo saw 12 million sales week one of a single player zelda and decided to change course. Or Hogwarts which made $850 million in revenue in a month despite being a single player next gen only release. Or the year's biggest release Baldur's Gate which almost hit 850k concurrent users on steam, the biggest sine Elden Ring and Cyberpunk which both sold 12 million copies in the first month alone.

I honestly dont know of this seismisc shift. This year alone we saw
- Dead Space remake
- Forspoken
- Hogwarts
- RE4
- Dead Island 2
- HiFi Rush
- Star Wars Survivor
- Zelda
- FF16
- Baldurs Gate
- Armored Core
- Starfield
- Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty
- Remnant 2
- Immortals

Almost all of them sold really well. Even the disappointing ones like FF16 sold 3 million in a month. And we have a few more to come:

- Spiderman 2
- Alan Wake 2
- Avatar

All massive single player games. Almost all of them hits. Only Forspoken and Immortals flopped. Which isnt bad considering thats a 90% success rate. As opposed to gaas trash which has a 95% failure rate.

Epic just laid off 900 people. Thats the biggest F2P game developer out there. Struggling. Sony is betting on the wrong horse. And I hope someone at sony saw those sales of SP games and said why the fuck did we invest 60% of our budget on gaas trash?!?!?! and fired his ass.
Okay? I said in an earlier post that it is not like Sony is doing away with single player games. I think Jimbo is getting a lot of undeserved heat after announcing his retirement. I do believe that Sony has to get on board with GAAS even if I do not like that model. Maybe I should have said adjust or leave millions on the table.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I see why this graph is potentially problematic. it's just that without knowing what games sony are working on, i don't think we should be alarmist about it. maybe there is something about live service games where they're just more expensive to make, so that even a modest increase in their production overshadows spending on other types of games. i don't know to what extent sony is counting mlb the show or gran turismo as live service games, or investments in bungie, haven, etc as spending on live service games. Investments in those studios wouldn't mean that santa monica, naughty dog, etc would be making less single player games. I don't know if this data is including third party titles like foamstars, genshin impact, etc. sony is paying for exclusivity, but that has no effect on their first party output at all. there's just a lot of variables. what's really at issue i think is their lack of communication on what games they're making.

but also, i think we're just disagreeing on whether this is actually an issue for sony. i think the lack of ANY major multiplayer games has been a huge problem for sony since the ps3. And it seems like they completely gave up on it during the ps4 era. where microsoft and nintendo make these huge gaas titles, and especially MS is just buying out games that sony used to be able to rely on. they need to make these investments to stay afloat. if MS decides to make COD, overwatch (3?), minecraft, exclusive. what is sony gonna do about it w/ just their lineup of single player games. that's a huge chunk of their audience.
As a huge fan of KZ, MAG, Socom, and Resistance mp, I too wanted Sony to go back to their PS3 era multiplayer games. But this aint it. its a complete shift.

And the proof is int he pudding. their sp studios are making fewer games. just look at that shitshow of an E3 conference they had this year after skipping the LAST TWO E3s!!! No ND, No SSM, No GG, No kojipro, no bluepoint,no bend, no suckerpunch. just one gaas trash after another.

this is happening because their single player studios need more money than ever before, but sony not only split them into multiple teams forcing them to make gaas trash, they also spent that money on acquiring and investing in unproven studios like that studio with ex-treyarch devs which laid off half of the team, that jade raymond studio thats making a woke pvp shooter,and that ex- bungie studio that showed up with a shitty cg trailer 3 years after announcing the game.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
i don't know if the majority of sony's future output in the next few years are gaas games. the graph that was posted doesn't tell us this. what i can fairly confidently say is that once the Activision/blizzard deal goes through, is that the majority of microsoft's investments in games will be for gaas titles, if it isn't already.
That’s right. Now is the issue for Xbox is that they chose the GaaS model or that the games aren’t good enough? Legitimate question.

Also assuming that’s the reason for Xbox being in their position isn’t necessarily correct.I think it’s a myriad of reasons.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Member
While that was true, that doesn’t mean that it’s the future. I have no clue what their projection teams show.
Most likely, they will rely on Gaas for steady revenue and get 1 or 2 major AAA-title out every year, at least until next-next gen.
Similar to what they do now, just with GaaS added (hence Bungie acquisition).

After that, who knows?
 
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ulantan

Member
I imagine it's the same reason xbox continues to make single player games despite minecraft, Halo, sea of thieves, and forza doing well. or why nintendo continues to make single player games, despite mario kart, splatoon, and smash bros doing really well.

but yeah totally sony has GT7 and uh... uhmmm??? destruction all stars. that's probably as good as those other games i listed above. they probably dont need more than these.
That's the shit that bothers me about this whole conversation nobody shares this kinda concern when smash or mario kart come out. If Microsoft announced a new killer instinct tommrow they would be met with Universal applause (rightly so). It's only bad when sony makes a multiplayer game. All of a sudden any diversity in the lineup means the destruction of the company shit feels weird.
 

Melfice7

Member
No offense, but only a complete fucking idiot would A) Think Ryan's tenure was bad for Sony, B) Think Ryan's departure means less investment in GaaS.

It definitely wasnt bad for sony, but it wasnt that great for playstation users though
 

DrFigs

Member
That’s right. Now is the issue for Xbox is that they chose the GaaS model or that the games aren’t good enough? Legitimate question.
I'm not sure i understand the question. MS has found a lot of success with their gaas games. I'm told sea of thieves was huge for them as is minecraft. They fumbled Halo, but thats 343's problem; that could've been a huge game. I think MS has lots of other problems which is limiting their growth. I think me and SlimySnake probably agree on all those other problems. like gamepass, their pc day one strategy, etc. things i see that jimbo was trying to emulate. to bring it back to topic - that's why despite me agreeing w/ jim ryan on gaas, i'm still glad he's gone.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
I'm not sure i understand the question. MS has found a lot of success with their gaas games. I'm told sea of thieves was huge for them as is minecraft. They fumbled Halo, but thats 343's problem; that could've been a huge game. I think MS has lots of other problems which is limiting their growth. I think me and SlimySnake probably agree on all those other problems. like gamepass, their pc day one strategy, etc. things i see that jimbo was trying to emulate. to bring it back to topic - that's why despite me agreeing w/ jim ryan on gaas, i'm still glad he's gone.
Yes that makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood.
 

Gojiira

Member
He did more good than bad, and lead to Playstation Studios being the juggernaut it is so thats one side of it.
But yeah he’s also lead to PS focusing entirely on the Blockbuster titles and GaaS.
I just hope his replacement sees the value in games like Puppeteer, The Last Guardian, Days Gone etc
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
I am not sure why people expect Sony to pivot from GaaS. They literally cannot rely on their single player games anymore as they are too expensive and takes too much time to produce.
Peoples personal preferences cloud their strategic judgement.

The GAAS explosion over the last 10 years isn't luck and it isn't slowing down. If PlayStation committed to traditional SP output like they have in the past, they would have doomed themselves to a smaller and smaller piece of the pie over time. It was a smart gamble.

People just can't get past..."but I like SP."
 

Salz01

Member
I don’t mind some Gaas games, my problem is the 60/40 split. I want it to be 60 percent focused on Single Player. Plus the whole messaging from Sony has been so hush hush under his tenure. I hate it. They want from announcing games too soon, to not announcing games. We need some middle ground.
 

Aenima

Member
https://gamingbolt.com/playstation-...s-will-remain-the-bedrock-of-sony-first-party

PlayStation Boss Says Story-Driven Games Will Remain the “Bedrock” of Sony First Party​


Talking about the success or not of the GAAS they are developing:
It would be naïve for us to assume that all 10 will be massive successes so that is not a necessary condition for us to double first party revenues,” Ryan said (via Reddit). “That is certainly not what we’re assuming. Clearly, the distinction between a hit and not a hit is not a binary one. And don’t forget that as we do this, we will continue to publish the games that have served us so well over the years. These single player, graphically beautiful narrative rich games will continue to be the bedrock of our first party publishing business.”

I think 10 GAAS is way too much investment in GAAS but i also think that Sony needed to persue to have some multiplayer/ GAAS games in they portfolio. If they manage to have 2 or 3 good GAAS IPs going, it can bring alot of money and they can be set for 2 gens just milking those IPs. And Jimbo is fully aware that developing all these GAAS is more to see what sticks and what not.
This is NOT the direction Playstation is going, Single Player games will remain the main focus. But its an expansion that needs a good amount of investment. It might pay big, or it might fail hard.

My fear is, while the big Sony studios are safe even if they release a floped GAAS, im not so sure of the small studios like Haven. But i guess thats something for the new CEO to worry about.
 
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