Support NeoGAF

[Radical_3d]

Brother has been paying for multiplayer and cloud saves since god knows when but now he's mad because they are porting Helldivers II to Xbox?

You should have started complaining a long time ago man. Plus, Xbros getting your games is only benefitial for you because that means easy money for PS and it's studios. Everybody wins, except the brand loyalists.

The mill charger is right. This direction of PlayStation is not good for the future of the company but Helldivers II, a second party live service game, is not the game where to draw the line no matter how good that live service is. Plus, the people that care about all this (we) don't know how go vote with our wallets.

 

[Durin]

Sony just needs to stop trend-chasing live-service multiplayer, bring back some of their languishing IP, cap their AAA budget games, invest in more AA to indie-sized games to pad out release gaps while delivering more new IP, build new features/services to make their box more unique, and imo continue to invest more in emulation of older titles so like a computer I can enjoy most of their back catalog on the modern platform. Thankfully some of this is already happening like cancelling live-service projects.

Really though Sony is still in a great position with a large userbase. Porting some games later to PC isn't going to damage their brand, if they have a steady stream of new content, and unique features/services to be on their platform ecosystem vs the others. So far they've done better than Microsoft with weaker first-party output this gen, and the height of their success the PS2 didn't need that much first-party either to dominate.

 

[Azure Crystal Gaming]

 

[salva]

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Ya know, we should ban marijuana.

 

[Player Respawn]

Thread title is so funny. Love it.

 

[A.Romero]

From the consumer perspective, wouldn't having more options where to play the games be best?

Why would anyone want to be locked in to an ecosystem and be subject that their decisions?

I rather be able to choose my platform based on whatever criteria I find best, ideally not including locked in software.

 

[Neolombax]

It's apparent now that I'm not really an enthusiast here, because I don't really care. I just want to play games.

 

[MicTyson]

Fanboys don't seem to get it. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo etc don't care about your plastic boxes wars,they care only about ONE thing and it's MONEY.

Nobody may like it but gaming isn't ever going back to what it used to be. Games cost so much money to make now that these companies are looking for every avenue to profit off of. GTA6 will be the biggest selling game and nobody gives a rats ass if it's on another console, plays on a toaster etc… The vast majority of gamers don't care about any of this shit that Neogaf does.

I see so many people here saying "OMG Microsoft doesn't know who they are anymore" Ya, Microsoft, the 3rd largest company in the world, is completely clueless on making money. I don't like it and you might not like it but gaming isn't ever going in a completely different direction. Microsoft knows EXACTLY what they are doing.. They bought up most of the industry and they are going to sell those games to play on anything they can and looks like Sony is looking to do the same.

Microsoft gets it and it might not be popular here and its "OMG they are so lost". No, they see not much value in making a plastic box anymore, for what? This next gen is probably the last gen we see traditional consoles. Its all going to be streaming at some point. I know, I know.. "Streaming quality sucks and we only get 58fps instead of 60fps on a disc" NO ONE GIVES A SHIT. Same argument you always heard from blu ray nerds over streaming. The general population doesn't care or notice any difference. The console tech has gotten to the point where they are losing money and at best breaking even selling their consoles. There is no price drop anymore etc… What incentive is there for them to build these boxes at this point when they can just sell you the games?

Microsoft is always the bad guy but they are a tech company that's usually ahead of the curve. Sure, they are never ahead of the curve on Sony with their games but when it comes to the things they do first and get criticized for it, the industry has usually followed.. Remember the XBone DRM fiasco? Now you are all buying plastic discs that need an oline connection. Remember fanboys said they would never pay to play online during the PS3 gen? Guess what? You all pay to play online.

The industry has completely changed and Sony is about to follow the same path Microsoft is but it just might take a bit more time.

Nintendo is irrelevant imo. It will forever do what it wants to because it's the kiddy system and that won't change,

 

[fersnake]

try to AI summarize but i didnt read it too

- PlayStation leadership appears compromised, with a tendency to follow Western trends rather than prioritize Japanese gaming culture.
- The new strategy seems to undermine the core fanbase, signaling a long-term shift detrimental to loyal supporters.
- Personal plan includes remaining invested in PS5 while considering a future transition to PC or other platforms.
- External voices question the necessity of purchasing a PlayStation due to games being available on multiple platforms.
- Marketing hinges on perception; current short-term gains may lead to long-term damage to the brand.
- Loss of core audience can signify the beginning of PlayStation's decline; reliance on third-party cuts and subscriptions may not sustain revenue.
- Committed to voting with wallet and habits; emphasizes the importance of consumer awareness.
- Encourages fellow fans to voice concerns about PlayStation's direction to prevent repeating mistakes of past failures.
- Urges critical thinking regarding investments in PlayStation's "core model," as decisions could impact future experiences.
- Warns of bad faith actors seeking to weaken PlayStation's brand, drawing parallels with Xbox's challenges.

 

[ProtoByte]

Its all going to be streaming at some point. I know, I know.. "Streaming quality sucks and we only get 58fps instead of 60fps on a disc" NO ONE GIVES A SHIT.

You don't understand technology, physics or costs. This will NEVER happen.

 

[MicTyson]

You don't understand technology, physics or costs. This will NEVER happen.

It's already happening.

 

[Pimpbaa]

My favorite PlayStation exclusives have been mostly ones made in partnerships with outside devs like From Software, Kojima Productions, and Shift Up. Also, my PS5 has been to me what every other PlayStation was, a place to play 3rd party games…I'm not even sure what this thread is about really, that OP is still hurting my brain.

 

[DavidGzz]

I was playing D4 but this is way more fun. *pulls out another brotein bar*

 

[NahaNago]

The playstation brand for me was mostly just third-party exclusives since before the playstation 4 I wasn't that into first party exclusives. So while my inner fanboy gets a little irked with them just a tad putting the games on pc , I also understand the move. It does makes sense but should be planned as way to introduce and draw folks to the playstation in order to buy games on their platform. Exclusives do still sell consoles so they should fund some third party games that only release on playstation but at the same time don't give it a crazy budget. They did well with Tokon even if it is going to pc so why not fund some smaller games that will create hype for the platform and the game doesn't have to be $70. If folks buy your console, they are more likely to buy other games on psn. I agree with your perception is a large part of marketing and the perception right now is that ps games will come to pc in a couple of years. It is not as bad as Xbox but for the pc crowd who is willing to wait for eternity for a game to go on sale then waiting a few years for a game to come out their platform is easy peasy. They really need to focus on creating hype around that PlayStation is supposedly the best place to play video games.

Its becoming abundantly clear that playstation leadership is compromised from top to bottom and those of you wanting japanese head conveniently forget how they are the worse about chasing what the west is doing and trends.

But to my point If this is what PlayStations new strategy consist of to constantly devalue and belittle their own core fanbase little by little, then this is what i have been preparing for over the last 3 years. Actions speak louder than words and i have enough backlog to stay locked in on ps5 on back for the foreseeable future with no problems until i finally make a move to pc or elsewhere.

There is already talk by outsiders who dont fully support playstation on 'why' they should even buy one now that playstation puts games on other platforms. Mind you PERCEPTION is everything in marketing. These short term gains playstation think they are garnering will do long term irreparable damage, and once you lose your core audience thats the beginning of the end. Those 30% cuts from third party and ps+ subs will dry up faster than pouring water on concrete on a hot summer day - and once people start rebuilding or exploring their options elsewhere… Elsewhere being platforms you have no control over or how consumer spending is encouraged then thats will be a wrap.

I'm not here to argue with anyone, ill just be voting with my wallet and habits going forward. Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me. And i promise i won't be fooled twice. If you're a playstation fan whom has bought in and invested directly.. Now is the time to speak up. if you enjoy playstation and you don't want to see them make mistakes others have in the past. Either speak/act now or remain complicit and watch the titanic sink over time because of their own mismanagement and decisions in the name of 'expanding' and profits. Fools gold at its finest.

I'll reiterate please critically think before you speak, if you sink money directly into playstation via their supposedly 'core model' and not off hand thru a PC or whereever else you should be thinking long and hard about the consequences of everything they are doing this gen because it will eventually effect you going forward and where u choose to play which will ultimately effect them. Their are lots of bad faith actors who want this because they know the damage it will do and weakening of the brand, And you dont have to look far across the pond to find examples *looks at xbox.*

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

they are doing it

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Its becoming abundantly clear that playstation leadership is compromised from top to bottom and those of you wanting japanese head conveniently forget how they are the worse about chasing what the west is doing and trends.

But to my point If this is what PlayStations new strategy consist of to constantly devalue and belittle their own core fanbase little by little, then this is what i have been preparing for over the last 3 years. Actions speak louder than words and i have enough backlog to stay locked in on ps5 on back for the foreseeable future with no problems until i finally make a move to pc or elsewhere.

There is already talk by outsiders who dont fully support playstation on 'why' they should even buy one now that playstation puts games on other platforms. Mind you PERCEPTION is everything in marketing. These short term gains playstation think they are garnering will do long term irreparable damage, and once you lose your core audience thats the beginning of the end. Those 30% cuts from third party and ps+ subs will dry up faster than pouring water on concrete on a hot summer day - and once people start rebuilding or exploring their options elsewhere… Elsewhere being platforms you have no control over or how consumer spending is encouraged then thats will be a wrap.

I'm not here to argue with anyone, ill just be voting with my wallet and habits going forward. Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me. And i promise i won't be fooled twice. If you're a playstation fan whom has bought in and invested directly.. Now is the time to speak up. if you enjoy playstation and you don't want to see them make mistakes others have in the past. Either speak/act now or remain complicit and watch the titanic sink over time because of their own mismanagement and decisions in the name of 'expanding' and profits. Fools gold at its finest.

I'll reiterate please critically think before you speak, if you sink money directly into playstation via their supposedly 'core model' and not off hand thru a PC or whereever else you should be thinking long and hard about the consequences of everything they are doing this gen because it will eventually effect you going forward and where u choose to play which will ultimately effect them. Their are lots of bad faith actors who want this because they know the damage it will do and weakening of the brand, And you dont have to look far across the pond to find examples *looks at xbox.*

Games are best when everyone has the option to play them including PC and Xbox and Nintendo gamers.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

At some point there will be a turning point and people joking will realize its been in front of them the whole time. Many of you sound like xbox fans of the past, denial - brushing everything off.

The turning point already happened when games became so expensive Sony needed to publish on PC to make up for it, and that was like 5 years ago. It's over dude, this isn't the future, it's the present. Just enjoy your video games and move on.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Games are best...

historically false.

 

[StereoVsn]

Lmfao a new copypasta is born!

I don't know what you know about Japanese culture, I am an expert. Sony needs to ….

 

[Starbuck2907]

But to my point If this is what PlayStations new strategy consist of to constantly devalue and belittle their own core fanbase little by little,

Sony is a corporation. They don't give a shit about their fan base unless the profits quit coming. Believing anything else is laughable.

Thank you for attending my TED talk.

 

[kyoji]

The turning point already happened when games became so expensive Sony needed to publish on PC to make up for it, and that was like 5 years ago. It's over dude, this isn't the future, it's the present. Just enjoy your video games and move on.

Don't let sony gaslight you with this. Their own mismanagement and budget control caused this from the studio heads on up. And they decided to take the fastest/laziest route instead of addressing these problems at there core.

Look at some of the ps4 franchises sale numbers these games were moving more units over time as exclusives than MOST multiplatforms will ever see. Manage the allocated budgets. Manage the expectations. Manage the people/projects better.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Fire post/avatar combo.

 

[kyoji]

they are doing it

This is my literal twitter account. Some of you not to bright look at my account handle closely

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This is my literal twitter account. Some of you not to bright look at my account handle closely

Army of One

 

[kyoji]

Army of One

Not ashamed either. I hope im wrong about all of it. Not like i want to see playstation crash and burn. I could and probably am completely off base its very possible but my read on xbox from 10 years ago was correct and im seeing eerily similar behavior even though one has vastly more market share and reach than the other.

Also notice shawn did not disagree with me in your screenshot he just asked me not to tag him, which admittedly im well aware hes been long since removed, but i know he still rubs elbows with at least some playstation brass. And sometimes a simple conversation can lead to more thought.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Not ashamed either. I hope im wrong about all of it. Not like i want to see playstation crash and burn. I could and probably am completely off base its very possible but my read on xbox from 10 years ago was correct and im seeing eerily similar behavior even though one has vastly more market share and reach than the other.

Oh, you are right. PlayStation is playing with fire.

at lot of us saw the cluster fuck xbox was becoming even since the second half of the 360. The only big difference is that if PS fucks around Sony will be basically fucked. So, in this regard, Sony has a very powerful incentive to protect PlayStation.

 

[kyoji]

Oh, you are right. PlayStation is playing with fire.

I appreciate the civil response. Agree or disagree a lot of goofys in this thread showing they are undercover shills or just how aloof they are just because their opinion of PlayStations direction and mine might not align. If you hold a mirror up on twitter and put the ps and xbox fanboy side by side you wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

And look i can console war with the best of em if i want to, but never with disinformation. I'm also not above looking at my own house while throwing stones.

 

[kyoji]

Oh, you are right. PlayStation is playing with fire.

at lot of us saw the cluster fuck xbox was becoming even since the second half of the 360. The only big difference is that if PS fucks around Sony will be basically fucked. So, in this regard, Sony has a very powerful incentive to protect PlayStation.

You would *think* that as it makes sense but i watch and read about ceo's tanking companys year in and year out with decision making that would leave you puzzled. Book sense doesnt always equate to common sense, and these new age ceos are all about analytics without factoring in real world elements always.

Its like watching an american football team and they go for it on 4th down because "analytics" said it was good to do so.

 

[GHG]

Well done kyoji for getting the attention of Shawn Layden:



Shawn's saying what's going on is nothing to do with him though.

It's pretty obvious that pretty much all of this is Hulst.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You would *think* that as it makes sense but i watch ceo's tank companys year in year out with decision making that would leave you puzzled. Book sense doesnt always equate to common sense, and these new age ceos are all about analytics without factoring in real world elements always.

Its like watching a american football and a team goes for it own 4th down because "analytics" said it was good to do so.

... how can i put this:

Right now, in this context and timeline, releasing games on Xbox is far less "damaging" than releasing woke games, not only because the end product is often divisive, lackluster, or alienating, but because these woke people within these companies are more focused on pushing their dumbass ideology than anything else. Just look at how far Pixar or Marvel has fallen, for example.

The reception and sentiment around
The Last Of Us 2
Forbidden West
GoW Ragnarok
Spiderman 2
Concord, Marathon and intergalactic

Should've lit PlayStation's executives' asses on fire

".... what the fuck is happening?" in fact; one could argue that following this ideology has increased the budget of these games around 20 to 50 Million alone. which creates a stronger drive to publish games on other platforms, right?


now, based on Hermen statements and the overall play station behavior..... Play station fans shouldn't be worried with THIS (iteration) of the multiplatform strategy (still should be vocal about their concerns tho)

 

[Felessan]

Sony just needs to stop trend-chasing live-service multiplayer, bring back some of their languishing IP, cap their AAA budget games, invest in more AA to indie-sized games to pad out release gaps while delivering more new IP, build new features/services to make their box more unique, and imo continue to invest more in emulation of older titles so like a computer I can enjoy most of their back catalog on the modern platform. Thankfully some of this is already happening like cancelling live-service projects.

They are market leader, they can't. Their own playerbase already around 50% gaas players and gaming market as a whole is like 80+%.
And their live-service initiative is still at full force (cancelling some projects was expected for them, it's how live-service accelerators work).

The turning point already happened when games became so expensive Sony needed to publish on PC to make up for it, and that was like 5 years ago. It's over dude, this isn't the future, it's the present. Just enjoy your video games and move on.

They didn't "need" it. It just make sense to not leave money on the table when there is little to no harm - and they are a business, not just organization solely to make fans happy.

 

[Durin]

They are market leader, they can't. Their own playerbase already around 50% gaas players and gaming market as a whole is like 80+%.
And their live-service initiative is still at full force (cancelling some projects was expected for them, it's how live-service accelerators work).

I mean, they absolutely can. What matters is getting the bulk of players on there platform spending money on existing live-service games they take a cut from all of them.

They don't need to produce their own, and the only successful one (Helldivers 2) they were involved with didn't need a AAA budget. They're welcome to keep trying, but all of the other ones they showed looked like trash.

 

[Filben]

I'm not here to argue with anyone,

So it's practically a "Dear diary" post. Ok, thanks for sharing. Bye.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Odd rant

- It's being done in a way that isn't affecting PlayStation sales

- PS5 is selling a well as PS4, so not brand damage

- Some people will decide not to buy a PS5 due to this, others will decide to buy a PS5 based on discovering Sony's games on other platforms. It balances out.

- Sony published games on Saturn and PC in the 90s (WipEout, Destruction Derby etc) with no issues

- Recent porting of games started under Jim Ryan

- PlayStation and Xbox are no longer competing

- Destiny (another Sony GAAS is already on Xbox too)

- Next Xbox (or Xbox PC) will play Sony's Steam games anyway

Sony seem to have a strategy of making extra money from old titles without harming their PlayStation business. Seems to be working out well so far.

It does make PlayStation seem less unique when you look back and try to count full exclusives, but the timing means that by the time they release the bulk of sales have already happened on PlayStation anyway.

All of these comments mirror what some xbox fans were saying when it was "just 4 games"

If you think this is any different from that, youre in for a rude awakening. Its better to accept it now.

I dont think its sony purposefully missing off their fans. Its purely business. You've mentioned it a few times. Games cost far too much now and this is where we are. These businesses want more money and a couple of extra million sales is enticing to these businesses. Simple as that.

 

[hemo memo]

You are in so deep. Sometimes it's good to step back and take a look at yourself, and as Norm Macdonald said, give your head a shake!

I didn't know who Norm was. I thought this was a dig at the person frequenting McDonald's/being fat. That would've been better.

 

[gerth666]

For me personally, I couldn't care less if Xbox gamers get to play some games I've already played.
I don't understand why people get so wound up with platform wars.
I Just know that as much as love my playstation, Sony don't give a fuck about me or anyone except their shareholders.

 

[Felessan]

I mean, they absolutely can. What matters is getting the bulk of players on there platform spending money on existing live-service games they take a cut from all of them.

When you can get a cut from 3rd party, why bother with 1st party at all, SP games included?

They don't need to produce their own, and the only successful one (Helldivers 2) they were involved with didn't need a AAA budget. They're welcome to keep trying, but all of the other ones they showed looked like trash.

They have MLB, Destiny, GT7 and HD2 as successful live service games.

 

[Senua]

I didn't know who Norm was. I thought this was a dig at the person frequenting McDonald's/being fat. That would've been better.

Philistine!

 

[Cakeboxer]

I don't understand why people get so wound up with platform wars.

Mentally healthy people don't get it because it's not about logic. Some gamers tie their identity to a platform, so any form of criticism or anything that doesn't go completely their way quickly escalates into drama, as if their very existence is on the line.

 

[ByWatterson]

We always see these threads days after Sony releases a banger exclusive.

 

[Hector Hall]

Most of Sony's games are already available on PC. You can literally count on one hand how many true exclusives they still have. And yet, their console keeps selling very well. That's the only metric they care about, and that's why they've ported almost all their games to PC — and why they're now porting Helldivers 2 to Xbox. The practical effect on PS5 sales will be virtually zero.

Anyway, the idea that any noise made here could have any effect on Sony is a mix of naivety and stupidity. They'll only change their approach if they start losing money — that's what drives any company.

Precisely, I think sooner or later they will start losing hardware sales if they destroy the value.

Each PlayStation buyer means 30% of income for them on each third party game sold, micro transaction, accessories sales, 100% of first party sales, potentially subscription to PSN+. Good luck substituting that with some 70% of sales of the few first party games in Steam or other platforms.

They only care about money, and will only react when they start to really see the results of their damage.

 

[Negotiator101]

You don't understand technology, physics or costs. This will NEVER happen.

Once Fiber replaces copper then the infrastructure is there mate, you don't have to like it though.

 

[Durin]

When you can get a cut from 3rd party, why bother with 1st party at all, SP games included?


They have MLB, Destiny, GT7 and HD2 as successful live service games.

Eh, I suppose that's true. MLB and GT were already successful brands before live-service was a term though, MLB gets new physical releases every year still, and pretty much every big sports franchise has veered into this model because it's an easy analog for the real sports being seasonal. I wouldn't say Bungie is in a great place right now, and their future looks bleak to me.

When you can get a cut from 3rd party, why bother with 1st party at all, SP games included?

I'm just arguing they have a much better track record for producing SP games, and they've never had a failure equivalent to Concord with that model. Their success rate vs the attempts with live-service so far hasn't been great, and I don't think their first-party service-based model is the thing driving players to their platform at all.

 

[Felessan]

I'm just arguing they have a much better track record for producing SP games, and they've never had a failure equivalent to Concord with that model. Their success rate vs the attempts with live-service so far hasn't been great, and I don't think their first-party service-based model is the thing driving players to their platform at all.

Heavenly Sword, Orden 1886, Deriveclub etc
There are quite a few examples of SP games seriously underperforming resulting in studio closure/contract termination in SP gaming space

 

[yogaflame]

All of these comments mirror what some xbox fans were saying when it was "just 4 games"

If you think this is any different from that, youre in for a rude awakening. Its better to accept it now.

I dont think its sony purposefully missing off their fans. Its purely business. You've mentioned it a few times. Games cost far too much now and this is where we are. These businesses want more money and a couple of extra million sales is enticing to these businesses. Simple as that.

That business mentality and not focusing on fans is what killed xbox one and xbox series x/s. PS is falling to that trap except if my other theory is correct that Sony already knows that there will be no next gen xbox console but just MS licensing its tech and logo to be use by other companies. Maybe Sony is just trying corner its true competition and that is Nintendo.

 

[ProtoByte]

People have to accept that the games industry is totally different than even a decade ago. Sony has barely shipped any first party games this gen and is seeing record profits just from collecting 30% of Fortnite and GTA MTX. If I told you 10 years ago Sony would ship a GOTY winning platformer and it would get easily outsold by REPO and Schedule I you would call me an idiot. Streamers playing your game is now way more important than a good review from IGN.

Helldivers getting a port to Xbox in its death throes is not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Companies like Tencent and Netease are exploiting the current meta to great success and Sony wisely doesn't wanna get left in the dust.

Nobody cares about console wars except boomers who buy a handful of single player games a year. The kid begging his MILF for the debit card to buy a Fortnite skin is a way more valuable customer and he doesn't give a fuck what platform he's playing it on.

I personally will not participate in an open system casualized version of the games market. A lot of people will follow in that direction. You will not like how the industry looks in 10 years, and it will have been totally preventable.

 

[Felessan]

I personally will not participate in an open system casualized version of the games market. A lot of people will follow in that direction. You will not like how the industry looks in 10 years, and it will have been totally preventable.

No
In 10 years current gamer 30+ generation that fond of SP games will shrunk by 30%. And they will be replaced with current 20-30 generation that are heavily into live service games.
You can't really prevent this as you can't stop aging.
The only way it possible is that internet somehow shutted down and children go back to play solo/local coop with friends.

 

[DenchDeckard]

That business mentality and not focusing on fans is what killed xbox one and xbox series x/s. PS is falling to that trap except if my other theory is correct that Sony already knows that there will be no next gen xbox console but just MS licensing its tech and logo to be use by other companies. Maybe Sony is just trying corner its true competition and that is Nintendo.

Completely agree, but it's almost like these businesses have data and know more than us on what they see from the industry and budgets of games. Eg, they just want money and the PS userbase is being exhausted. They are lucky for 10 - 20 percent of their userbase buying first party games. On well received games with gamers they are lucky for 3-5 percent sales with the userbase. Bloodborne / Astro bot etc.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

All i know is i play on playstation because it gets "all" 3rd party games plus 1st party ones as well.
That's all i need.

PS One and PS2 also had mostly games done by 3rd parties and no one was complaining lol.