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[Mononoke]

I still think that Vince was more concerned with people liking the episode than actually making a finale that felt emotionally conclusive to all the characters.

Or, he was just following through with what Walt has always done throughout the show. Almost all of Walt's plans had unintended consequences (this was the backfire) - because he was trying to juggle his criminality in a moral world (and while Walt was willing to make evil decisions, he was still tied to this moral world that was the lies and delusions he used to justify his actions).

When Walt finally lets go of that, and just accepts he's evil, and isn't trying to juggle his actions, he gets things done. You guys act as if Walt has never come up with insane plans before, and pulled them off. It's happened many times throughout the show. This time, his death was inevitable so there wasn't really any consequences left for him to face. He accepted he was going to die, that that was the outcome. I see the ending as a follow through to Walt's arc, not aimed at pleasing a crowd. Maybe the takeaway from the finale is that, when Walt accepts who he is, he gets what he wants (an existential ending if you will). Walt has always been gifted, and he was very good at being bad. He just needed to accept that's what he was, in order to do it.

I don't really get this notion where people feel that bad guys must not feel good about what they do. Or that bad people must not always get what they want. Often people are bad, because they get these very things. That's why they do it. For instance, had Walt accepted he was completely evil earlier on and was okay with it - he would have just killed Jesse long ago. He would have dealt with all of his problems head on, without having any qualms about what he was doing. Walt DID make evil decisions no doubt, but he always had to make them in a way that worked around this moral world/his sense of morality (which is why often they were deception). I see the finale as the complete realization of what Walt was, and always was. When you consider where Walt was in the first season, and where he was in the middle seasons, to where he was at in the finale, I think it was the perfect conclusion to his arc.

 

[Cornballer]

Don't know if this has been posted yet:

Walt's Legacy: What we learned from the Breaking Bad finale

This is the first I've seen it. Thanks.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Warren "Baby Beard" Ellis on the finale!!!
http://www.vulture.com/2013/10/warren-ellis-breaking-bad-heisenberg-theory.html

 

[Pillville]

Hey, only 4 more days until anothe..........

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Don't know if this has been posted yet:

Walt's Legacy: What we learned from the Breaking Bad finale

this thing is AMAZING

 

[IronRinn]

It strikes me that many professional critics and recappers are having a much different conversation about this show than viewers are. There's a meta-level to the critical response that spends more time viewing the show outside of its reality — the mechanics of it, whether it's successful as a show — than engaging with it on its terms. It's weird for me to see so many articles bemoaning that the ending is too pat, that it leaves too little room for discussion or interpretation and yet the discussions people are having seem to show that to be completely untrue.

I suppose that's the sort of thinking you have to get into if you're a tv critic but I can't help but think that some of them are projecting a bit too much.

 

[Dalauz]

This was posted?

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/10/norm-mcdonald-breaking-bad/


SO SAD

 

[jtb]

It strikes me that many professional critics and recappers are having a much different conversation about this show than viewers are. There's a meta-level to the critical response that spends more time viewing the show outside of its reality — the mechanics of it, whether it's successful as a show — than engaging with it on its terms. It's weird for me to see so many articles bemoaning that the ending is too pat, that it leaves too little room for discussion or interpretation and yet the discussions people are having seem to show that to be completely untrue.

I suppose that's the sort of thinking you have to get into if you're a tv critic but I can't help but think that some of them are projecting a bit too much.

the mechanics of the show are the show. I don't see why that's not fair game.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

I just listened to Baby Blue again and all it does is remind me how brilliant the finale was. The whole show, really. How everything was just flawless. It's going to be a long time before a show like this comes along again.

 

[amnesiac]

This was posted?

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/10/norm-mcdonald-breaking-bad/


SO SAD

That would be interesting if true.

But he should just accept the fact that it ended how it did.

 

[IronRinn]

the mechanics of the show are the show. I don't see why that's not fair game.

It's fair game, sure. It just seems to me that those mechanics are being used to preclude discussion like that Warren Ellis article. That's all.

 

[cubicle47b]

I suppose that's the sort of thinking you have to get into if you're a tv critic but I can't help but think that some of them are projecting a bit too much.

It's hard to write three Breaking Bad articles a week. At some point you're going to have to go beyond only talking about the show.

 

[PedroPanache]

Warren "Baby Beard" Ellis on the finale!!!
http://www.vulture.com/2013/10/warren-ellis-breaking-bad-heisenberg-theory.html

It's interesting the disconnect between how writers/showrunners see the finale compared to the TV critics.

 

[Mononoke]

The dream ending is so awful.

 

[shamanick]

Or, he was just following through with what Walt has always done throughout the show. Almost all of Walt's plans had unintended consequences (this was the backfire) - because he was trying to juggle his criminality in a moral world (and while Walt was willing to make evil decisions, he was still tied to this moral world that was the lies and delusions he used to justify his actions).

When Walt finally lets go of that, and just accepts he's evil, and isn't trying to juggle his actions, he gets things done. You guys act as if Walt has never come up with insane plans before, and pulled them off. It's happened many times throughout the show. This time, his death was inevitable so there wasn't really any consequences left for him to face. He accepted he was going to die, that that was the outcome. I see the ending as a follow through to Walt's arc, not aimed at pleasing a crowd. Maybe the takeaway from the finale is that, when Walt accepts who he is, he gets what he wants (an existential ending if you will). Walt has always been gifted, and he was very good at being bad. He just needed to accept that's what he was, in order to do it.

I don't really get this notion where people feel that bad guys must not feel good about what they do. Or that bad people must not always get what they want. Often people are bad, because they get these very things. That's why they do it. For instance, had Walt accepted he was completely evil earlier on and was okay with it - he would have just killed Jesse long ago. He would have dealt with all of his problems head on, without having any qualms about what he was doing. Walt DID make evil decisions no doubt, but he always had to make them in a way that worked around this moral world/his sense of morality (which is why often they were deception). I see the finale as the complete realization of what Walt was, and always was. When you consider where Walt was in the first season, and where he was in the middle seasons, to where he was at in the finale, I think it was the perfect conclusion to his arc.

Really great post, thanks for this.

 

[Interfectum]

Or, he was just following through with what Walt has always done throughout the show. Almost all of Walt's plans had unintended consequences (this was the backfire) - because he was trying to juggle his criminality in a moral world (and while Walt was willing to make evil decisions, he was still tied to this moral world that was the lies and delusions he used to justify his actions).

When Walt finally lets go of that, and just accepts he's evil, and isn't trying to juggle his actions, he gets things done. You guys act as if Walt has never come up with insane plans before, and pulled them off. It's happened many times throughout the show. This time, his death was inevitable so there wasn't really any consequences left for him to face. He accepted he was going to die, that that was the outcome. I see the ending as a follow through to Walt's arc, not aimed at pleasing a crowd. Maybe the takeaway from the finale is that, when Walt accepts who he is, he gets what he wants (an existential ending if you will). Walt has always been gifted, and he was very good at being bad. He just needed to accept that's what he was, in order to do it.

I don't really get this notion where people feel that bad guys must not feel good about what they do. Or that bad people must not always get what they want. Often people are bad, because they get these very things. That's why they do it. For instance, had Walt accepted he was completely evil earlier on and was okay with it - he would have just killed Jesse long ago. He would have dealt with all of his problems head on, without having any qualms about what he was doing. Walt DID make evil decisions no doubt, but he always had to make them in a way that worked around this moral world/his sense of morality (which is why often they were deception). I see the finale as the complete realization of what Walt was, and always was. When you consider where Walt was in the first season, and where he was in the middle seasons, to where he was at in the finale, I think it was the perfect conclusion to his arc.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts perfectly. The scene with Walt and his wife where he admits he did it for himself was one of the most pivotal scenes in the entire series IMO.

 

[Lautaro]

When Walt finally lets go of that, and just accepts he's evil, and isn't trying to juggle his actions, he gets things done.

I remember an episode when Jesse leaves Rehab after Jane's death and tells Walt he accepted that he's the bad guy and shortly after, Walt says that he can't be the bad guy, he can't accept it.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

The dream ending would mean Walt is psychic as he seemed to dream about shit he didn't know about previously (Jesse being a slave to the Nazis for example).

Anyway, I'm still not sure how I feel about the finale. The last couple of minutes were brilliant , Jesse and Walt's goodbye and Walt spending his last moments in the lab. But certain stuff about the finale bugged me, it wasn't bad, it just kinda left me feeling cold.

Unrelated to that, but how the hell did Walt get the ricin inside those little packets of fake sugar shit?

 

[Frost_Ace]

Or, he was just following through with what Walt has always done throughout the show. Almost all of Walt's plans had unintended consequences (this was the backfire) - because he was trying to juggle his criminality in a moral world (and while Walt was willing to make evil decisions, he was still tied to this moral world that was the lies and delusions he used to justify his actions).

When Walt finally lets go of that, and just accepts he's evil, and isn't trying to juggle his actions, he gets things done. You guys act as if Walt has never come up with insane plans before, and pulled them off. It's happened many times throughout the show. This time, his death was inevitable so there wasn't really any consequences left for him to face. He accepted he was going to die, that that was the outcome. I see the ending as a follow through to Walt's arc, not aimed at pleasing a crowd. Maybe the takeaway from the finale is that, when Walt accepts who he is, he gets what he wants (an existential ending if you will). Walt has always been gifted, and he was very good at being bad. He just needed to accept that's what he was, in order to do it.

I don't really get this notion where people feel that bad guys must not feel good about what they do. Or that bad people must not always get what they want. Often people are bad, because they get these very things. That's why they do it. For instance, had Walt accepted he was completely evil earlier on and was okay with it - he would have just killed Jesse long ago. He would have dealt with all of his problems head on, without having any qualms about what he was doing. Walt DID make evil decisions no doubt, but he always had to make them in a way that worked around this moral world/his sense of morality (which is why often they were deception). I see the finale as the complete realization of what Walt was, and always was. When you consider where Walt was in the first season, and where he was in the middle seasons, to where he was at in the finale, I think it was the perfect conclusion to his arc.

This is a good post, and it's clearly where Gilligan was going, but I still think it ended too neatly and in a fanservice-y way. Walt nailed one impossible task to the other in a way that it almost seemed the episode was detached from reality. And the other characters had so little screentime that I felt a little cheated, especially considering one of the reasons I find this show great are the great reactions that people had to the events rather than the events themselves. Jesse's ending rubbed me the wrong way, how can I believe he has an happy ending when there's nothing in the world left for him? This is why I wish Gilligan had the balls to either to kill him off in Ozy or had Walt kill him in the end (this is one of the aspects that certainly feels crowdpleasing), not to mention Marie, Junior etc...

 

[Mononoke]

I remember an episode when Jesse leaves Rehab after Jane's death and tells Walt he accepted that he's the bad guy and shortly after, Walt says that he can't be the bad guy, he can't accept it.

Yep. And again, almost all of Walt's evil decisions, are dictated by him trying to control the situation, and trying to make things "work for him" - while maintaining his balance between Heisenberg (and his morality). We can all point to Walt' actions and say he's an evil man. And it's true. But Walt still tried to juggle things throughout the show, and that often is why there was consequences that blew back on him.

Walt accepting that Heisenberg and him are one in the same - and that he's completely fine with that, and has no longer has any issues with his actions being immoral, is the big change in Walt in the finale.

And no, I'm not saying Heisenberg is a split personality. I'm just saying that while Walt deep down got off on being a criminal, he was always juggling that aspect, and the fact that he was supposedly doing it for family (and even his own limit, of what he could and couldn't do, because he still adhered to his sense of his old self.

 

[Mononoke]

This is a good post, and it's clearly where Gilligan was going, but I still think it ended too neatly and in a fanservice-y way. Walt nailed one impossible task to the other in a way that it almost seemed the episode was detached from reality. And the other characters had so little screentime that I felt a little cheated (especially Jesse).

Can't really argue with you there. Although if the ending was existential in nature, then Walt being able to pull off every single task he set out to do, makes perfect sense. And it even makes sense, when you consider that everything went his way (even down to the key falling into his lap). I can understand if people physically wanted more to go wrong. To be more sloppy. Because they felt there was no tension, or it was "too neat". But I guess I just bought into the arc with Walt accepting who he always was, and had no issue with it.

Especially since Walt has always miraculously pulled off plans throughout the show (and often much more unbelievable). Walt has always been this very gifted person, who's potential was wasted (either because of his own hubris) - or because he played by the rules of life, and adhered to it. But then Walt finally feels in control of his life for once, and actually feels alive when he first Breaks Bad. And the fact that Breaking Bad frees Walt and allows him to tap into his potential, hence why he's able to cook 99% pure blue meth, really says it all. Walt is supposed to be an Übermensch. But he never quite ascends to that, because he's tied to the same world that muted his potential. As much as Walt is willing to bend the rules, and do what he wants, he still adheres to it and isn't willing to completely abandon himself to it (and again, this goes back to why he lies to himself why he does it, and why he needs to justify his actions).

It's only in the end when he accepts what he is, that he's again allowed to tap into his full potential. And so that's why I had no issue with Walt getting everything done.

Also, I don't even think physically what he did, was that crazy. Poisoning a lady + making a mechanism that makes something go left to right? At best, you could argue everything lining up for him so perfectly is a little far fetched. And again I won't argue there. I think it's a very valid reason to argue why the finale wasn't satisfying, or felt too neat. But I just had no issue with it (given what I just posted above). Plus, I also don't buy into this idea that Walt ends up dying a hero, or gets redemption. Walt completely accepting he's evil, and going out on his own terms - just makes Walt more evil than he ever was IMO. I also don't think in the grand picture, Walt actually won. He basically sacrifices his entire family (Skyler is ruined for life, riddled with guilt. Jr. will always be damaged. Even if he accepts the money, his life is ruined. Holly won't have a father, and will only of the evil man that is Walter White.). So in the end, Walt basically ruins everyone's life, just so he can feel alive and in control before he dies.

That's not heroic at all. Walt going out on his own terms though, just plays into the Walter White arc, and his refusal to accept who he is throughout the show. And in that sense, I loved it.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

I haven't been able to read the whole thread. So I may be repeating things that others have said, ignoring things that others have said, and so on. Sorry.

I was pretty disappointed by the finale. A few thoughts, in point form:

1. I found the finale's crucial narrative pieces implausible to the point of ruining the fun. (Examples: the bit with Skyler and the "shoot out" at the end made me roll my eyes.) Breaking Bad is a fantasy, of course. I'm hardly one to get hung up on implausible details. But the finale was Homeland-Season-2 levels of ridiculous.

2. Having Walt play hero at the end (provide for his family, save Jesse, die on his sword) was a huge moral cop-out, and also extremely unsatisfying. (The Shield and The Sopranos both did much better. The Shield was better because it denied Mackey redemption without blinking. The Sopranos did a much better job than Breaking Bad at refusing to answer moral questions. Breaking Bad basically turned into a last-minute redemption story, which is ridiculous.)

3. The most interesting character story of the entire series -- Jesse's -- was basically ignored. (In fact, he's been ignored for episodes. Yes, yes, he's in slavery. It's an interesting plot point, conceivably. But it isn't explored. We learn nothing about what it does/did to him, and nothing about what's left of him as he comes out.)

Still a good show. Enjoyed the last season. But, man, what a letdown.

 

[Cornballer]

- EW: 'Breaking Bad': On the set for the final scene

 

[Maninthemirror]

It wasn't a dream ending.


The whole series started with the advent of a man who was initially shy, reserved, hesitant and careful but brilliant at the same time. It was his hesitancy which cost him the power seat at Grey Matter. As the Mr Nice guy Mr walt was the Beta Male and the Schwartz were all Alpha and they showed it by taking over the company completely.

The Cancer triggered a reaction of doom of Walt but also desperation for his family. His initial reason for cooking was not for himself but was for his family but we know as time went on and he started to feel good from the money he made, the power he had over people (like Jesse) and the control he had somewhat over what he was doing created the persona we know as Heisenberg.

Heisenberg was the persona of Walter White as an Alpha Male. If this persona was there during his time at Grey Matter he would have complete control over the company and would have ruthlessly kicked out the schwartz. It was his persona which made Walt realize that he needed Heisenberg because it felt good to him inside. Finally he had the power and control he always wanted. The trouble was there was always the Mr Nice Guy inside him and that made him hesitate and whenever he hesitated the conflict within Walter White of Mr Nice Guy and Heisenberg always resulted in Chaos. It was this conflict which confused Jesse in portraying Walt as the Devil while Walt himself was conflicted that should I get rid of him or am I trying to help him. This kind of conflict resulted in many issues. The tread lightly qoute to Hank was all Heisenberg but his concern for Hank during the Nazi showdown was Walter White. Walt tried to have it both ways until the very end when he was dying with Cancer in the cabin and just was about to give up when the very first instance of when he was Mr Nice Guy and that made him lose everything showed up in that TV Interview. At that moment Walt realized that him being nice, shy, reserved, sad did not get him anything, it did not get the money to his family and he will die as a broken man like the Schwartz considered him always since he lost control of Grey Matter.

That was the triggered which caused a landslide in Walt's personality which resulted him shunning completely the Beta male within him and embracing what he knew was the Alpha Male. Someone who could achieve anything. This was the reason it was his Alpha male persona who said point blank that he did it all for himself, it was why he said to himself in the snow capped car that 'just get me home, I will do the rest' and why he died a happy man as he was in a place which made him feel in control, his baby product. Its why there was not a single moment of hesitancy and whenever it was , it was all a part of an act (lydia meeting, nazi meeting) to get the upper hand, to fool the other party that the hesistancy was all there but it wasnt . Walt knew exactly what he was doing and this is why when he was cooking under full control and getting 99% efficiency, he got 99% of what he set out for after leaving the granite state.

It wasn't a dream. it was just his alpha male persona, heisenberg finally having full control. It also cost him his life due to going all out but it made him achieve everything he wanted in the end and die a happy man

 

[Frost_Ace]

I wish Cornballer stated his own opinion on the finale and on the season/series as a whole instead of just posting news, I want to know your opinion man

2. Having Walt play hero at the end (provide for his family, save Jesse, die on his sword) was a huge moral cop-out, and also extremely unsatisfying. (The Shield and The Sopranos both did much better. The Shield was better because it denied Mackey redemption without blinking. The Sopranos did a much better job than Breaking Bad at refusing to answer moral questions. Breaking Bad basically turned into a last-minute redemption story, which is ridiculous.)

Redemption story? Walt completely embraced his dark side, that's the complete opposite of a redemption story. Also agreed on the misuse of Jesse, it was truly a letdown.

 

[Mononoke]

I haven't been able to read the whole thread. So I may be repeating things that others have said, ignoring things that others have said, and so on. Sorry.

I was pretty disappointed by the finale. A few thoughts, in point form:

1. I found the finale's crucial narrative pieces implausible to the point of ruining the fun. (Examples: the bit with Skyler and the "shoot out" at the end made me roll my eyes.) Breaking Bad is a fantasy, of course. I'm hardly one to get hung up on implausible details. But the finale was Homeland-Season-2 levels of ridiculous.

2. Having Walt play hero at the end (provide for his family, save Jesse, die on his sword) was a huge moral cop-out, and also extremely unsatisfying. (The Shield and The Sopranos both did much better. The Shield was better because it denied Mackey redemption without blinking. The Sopranos did a much better job than Breaking Bad at refusing to answer moral questions. Breaking Bad basically turned into a last-minute redemption story, which is ridiculous.)

3. The most interesting character story of the entire series -- Jesse's -- was basically ignored. (In fact, he's been ignored for episodes. Yes, yes, he's in slavery. It's an interesting plot point, conceivably. But it isn't explored. We learn nothing about what it does/did to him, and nothing about what's left of him as he comes out.)

Still a good show. Enjoyed the last season. But, man, what a letdown.

Breaking Bad has always been implausible. It's a very pulpy/stylistic driven show. This is the same show that had a large Magnet go up against a police station to destroy evidence. The same one that had our misfits pull of a great train heist. The same one that blew up Gus's face in a a nursery home. And the same one where Walt blows up a guys car by sticking the windshield wiper into the engine. This also the same show, where the main character is able to enter the drug arena, and magically cook up 99% pure meth. And it's blue too. The same show that literally crashed two airplanes, to make a thematic point of Walt's actions and his lack of realizing the consequences of his actions.

How anything in the finale was more implausible then those moments, is beyond me. I actually thought the finale was some of the more grounded moments in the show (when it came to Walt's plans).

Homeland Season 2's implausible moments were worse, because it was jarring with what Season One was. It broke from the style and tone that was set before it (and the situations that were told just weren't good). But Breaking Bad has been consistent with it's tone, and storytelling from the very beginning. And I personally found all the moments that used the implausibility to be awesome. Nothing in Homeland Season 2 justified the implausibility. Again, they just weren't good scenarios.

 

[CharminUltra]

Warren "Baby Beard" Ellis on the finale!!!
http://www.vulture.com/2013/10/warren-ellis-breaking-bad-heisenberg-theory.html

This is beautiful.

 

[Mononoke]

I really can't believe people BELIEVE the dream theory is actually a thing. I mean, I can understand that some fans that hated the finale, are trying to re-write the finale in their own way, that makes the ending more acceptable to them. Okay. But those actually saying it's a legitimate possibility...wat.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I really can't believe people BELIEVE the dream theory is actually a thing. I mean, I can understand that some fans that hated the finale, are trying to re-write the finale in their own way, that makes the ending more acceptable to them. Okay. But those actually saying it's a legitimate possibility...wat.

Well not many fans hated it

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2301455/


.....

 

[Ashok]

People are complaining about the BrBa finale? It was one of the best endings to a TV show I've ever seen. Is 96.2% purity not good enough!?!

 

[AlimNassor]

I haven't been able to read the whole thread. So I may be repeating things that others have said, ignoring things that others have said, and so on. Sorry.

I was pretty disappointed by the finale. A few thoughts, in point form:

1. I found the finale's crucial narrative pieces implausible to the point of ruining the fun. (Examples: the bit with Skyler and the "shoot out" at the end made me roll my eyes.) Breaking Bad is a fantasy, of course. I'm hardly one to get hung up on implausible details. But the finale was Homeland-Season-2 levels of ridiculous.

2. Having Walt play hero at the end (provide for his family, save Jesse, die on his sword) was a huge moral cop-out, and also extremely unsatisfying. (The Shield and The Sopranos both did much better. The Shield was better because it denied Mackey redemption without blinking. The Sopranos did a much better job than Breaking Bad at refusing to answer moral questions. Breaking Bad basically turned into a last-minute redemption story, which is ridiculous.)

3. The most interesting character story of the entire series -- Jesse's -- was basically ignored. (In fact, he's been ignored for episodes. Yes, yes, he's in slavery. It's an interesting plot point, conceivably. But it isn't explored. We learn nothing about what it does/did to him, and nothing about what's left of him as he comes out.)

Still a good show. Enjoyed the last season. But, man, what a letdown.

1. Nothing he did was unrealistic. His plan worked, but, he still died.

2. Walt wasn't redeemed. That last minute in the Meth lab pretty much confirms he's still a piece of shit who thinks his Meth was his one true love. He would rather die not with his family, but, in his lab.

3. Walt has always deluded himself into thinking it was for his family. That was always his excuse for everything. Walt wasn't an evil monster, he may be a jackass, he may be a piece of shit, but, he cared for his family and after Hank died a part of Walt died. Walt became humbled.

Walt has lost everything, his family, his money and his life. He's suffered a lot. Either way he's going to die.

 

[jtb]

^ the entire M60 scene/final showdown was the very definition of contrived and unrealistic. But, as Azula says, BB has never held itself to a standard of realism. (the contrived-ness is a bit more problematic, but meh) I don't see it as a problem.

I really can't believe people BELIEVE the dream theory is actually a thing. I mean, I can understand that some fans that hated the finale, are trying to re-write the finale in their own way, that makes the ending more acceptable to them. Okay. But those actually saying it's a legitimate possibility...wat.

I agree... it feels very much cognitive dissonance from those who don't really want to admit they don't like the way the finale played out. Or just an inability to reconcile the finale with what they thought the finale should be. I'd almost venture to call it a cop-out. Just like it or don't like it, but don't make it into something it's not.

 

[IceCold]

The entire show is a dream. Remember when Walt collapsed in the first episode? What you see once he wakes up is all a dream.This explains why some of the stuff that happens in the show is implausible or why Walt is so damn lucky.

Or even better, this is all a dream that Hal once had.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think I understand the backlash against the finale, but I don't agree with it.

The last episode is not the capping statement of all that was meant by the series. It was a coda. Ozymandias, the episode and the poem it references, *that* is the message. That episode had me waking up in the night literally thinking about it. There was no need to try to top that, or to hammer home the point that Walt screwed up and had become evil. And the coda doesn't undermine that message in any real way, either. Walt cops to his real motive. Everything is still fucked up. Walt loses everything, and then dies. That he gets to punish some even badder guys, or that he re-attains mastery of the story doesn't undermine that.

I think some people were looking for one last "topper" the way that breaking Bad so often went further than it had before, with each season. But that wouldn't alter the meaning of the story, and I think the emotional wreckage of Ozymandias is all that was needed.

 

[CharminUltra]

I haven't been able to read the whole thread. So I may be repeating things that others have said, ignoring things that others have said, and so on. Sorry.

I was pretty disappointed by the finale. A few thoughts, in point form:

1. I found the finale's crucial narrative pieces implausible to the point of ruining the fun. (Examples: the bit with Skyler and the "shoot out" at the end made me roll my eyes.) Breaking Bad is a fantasy, of course. I'm hardly one to get hung up on implausible details. But the finale was Homeland-Season-2 levels of ridiculous.

2. Having Walt play hero at the end (provide for his family, save Jesse, die on his sword) was a huge moral cop-out, and also extremely unsatisfying. (The Shield and The Sopranos both did much better. The Shield was better because it denied Mackey redemption without blinking. The Sopranos did a much better job than Breaking Bad at refusing to answer moral questions. Breaking Bad basically turned into a last-minute redemption story, which is ridiculous.)

3. The most interesting character story of the entire series -- Jesse's -- was basically ignored. (In fact, he's been ignored for episodes. Yes, yes, he's in slavery. It's an interesting plot point, conceivably. But it isn't explored. We learn nothing about what it does/did to him, and nothing about what's left of him as he comes out.)

Still a good show. Enjoyed the last season. But, man, what a letdown.

1. What exactly was so implausible about the scene with Skyler? Also, the machine gun contraption is easily one of the most believable of Walter's inventions. How is it any less believable than say, the mercury fulminate scene?

2. I think this one flew over your head. As others have pointed out, it was the exact opposite of what you think: Walt did not die a hero's death. He finally embraced who he really was. He accomplished his goal and yet did not redeem himself. That's why the finale was so bittersweet.

3. Jesse is the most interesting character in the show? Really? I know, opinions, but really? C'mon now.

 

[Perspicacity]

*REALLY GOOD POST*

...When you consider where Walt was in the first season, and where he was in the middle seasons, to where he was at in the finale, I think it was the perfect conclusion to his arc.

Nail on the head. It also ties back to the chemistry lesson in the very first episode

"You see, technically, chemistry is the study of matter, but I prefer to see it as the study of change: Electrons change their energy levels. Molecules change their bonds. Elements combine and change into compounds. But that's all of life, right? It's the constant, it's the cycle. It's solution, dissolution. Just over and over and over. It is growth, then decay, then transformation. It is fascinating, really."

There was the growth of his evil and competence (S1-5a), Decay of his former life and his role as a family man (S2-Granite State) and then we finally see the full transformation in Felina

 

[T.O.P]

Hey, only 4 more days until anothe..........

 

[jtb]

I'd say Jesse's a more interesting character than Walt. Jesse is a conflicted human being, where as Walt is a pretty straightforward dick. A petulant, whiny dick. They ran out of things to do with him (Jesse), but he's the real tragic figure in this story.

 

[Mononoke]

^ the entire M60 scene/final showdown was the very definition of contrived and unrealistic. But, as Azula says, BB has never held itself to a standard of realism. (the contrived-ness is a bit more problematic, but meh) I don't see it as a problem.



I agree... it feels very much cognitive dissonance from those who don't really want to admit they don't like the way the finale played out. Or just an inability to reconcile the finale with what they thought the finale should be. I'd almost venture to call it a cop-out. Just like it or don't like it, but don't make it into something it's not.

Yep. I mean, I'm totally okay with accepting that I loved the finale, and some hated it. I might not agree with it. But I understand WHY they didn't like it. And I think it's very valid reasons. I just think some should accept the reasons why they didn't like it, vs. trying to come up with non-canon theories to make the finale work for them.

Well not many fans hated it

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2301455/


.....

I didn't mean to come off like, I think everyone hated it. But it's still surprising to see so many people proposing the dream theory. Like....really? Anyways, I do think the show's finale was generally disliked by most critics. If you look at the totality of pieces being written about it, most generally agree it was a good episode. But they don't like the episode in the context of the series. And there is also a general feeling (IMO - although my interpretation of this general feeling might over-stated) - is that the finale kind of derailed the legacy of the show being great.

 

[zma1013]

3. Jesse is the most interesting character in the show? Really? I know, opinions, but really? C'mon now.

2nd, only behind Walt.

 

[Mononoke]

I'd say Jesse's a more interesting character than Walt. Jesse is a conflicted human being, where as Walt is a pretty straightforward dick. A petulant, whiny dick. They ran out of things to do with him (Jesse), but he's the real tragic figure in this story.

Sure, but this wasn't Jesse's story. And ultimately, where they set up Jesse and Walt by the end of Ozymandias, I would not have believed any moment beyond what we got in the finale (at least between them). They were both in a place as characters, that any other dialogue would have felt forced. I think what we got, said all that needed to be said.

I also don't see what else they could have done with Jesse, given the time of the episode, and it being a focus on Walt.

 

[jonezer4]

2. Walt wasn't redeemed. That last minute in the Meth lab pretty much confirms he's still a piece of shit who thinks his Meth was his one true love. He would rather die not with his family, but, in his lab.

He wasn't redeemed, that's for sure, but the rest of your statement is wrong as it assumes he had a choice. He didn't. Because he was beyond redemption, he lost his family. They want nothing to do with him and the police would quickly put an end to it if he did.

If he had the choice, he'd absolutely be with them, but he burned those bridges past the point of reconciliation. The meth doesn't discriminate.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Walt wasnt redeemed. Walt failed. Heisenberg succeeded. He finally let go of the beta male that cost him grey matter and completely accepted his alpha male which allowed him to create a meth empire

 

[Mononoke]

He wasn't redeemed, that's for sure, but the rest of your statement is wrong as it assumes he had a choice. He didn't. Because he was beyond redemption, he lost his family. They want nothing to do with him and the police would quickly put an end to it if he did.

If he had the choice, he'd absolutely be with them, but he burned those bridges past the point of reconciliation. The meth doesn't discriminate.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Walt clearly states that he feels good for the first time in a while - because he accepts who he is. And ultimately, I saw Walt dying in his lab (and also taking out all the Nazis) - as Walt dying feeling alive.

That to me, was a choice. He didn't have to go after the Nazis. There are multiple ways he could have went out.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see where you are coming from. I agree with you that, the choice to die with his family was not there anymore, because he burned that bridge. But I guess the point I'm making is, I don't think Walt really would have been going out to his true self, if he died that way.

 

[CharminUltra]

2nd, only behind Walt.

Oh, I definitely agree that he is the 2nd most interesting character in the show. He's just not Walter White

 

[Intheflorsh]

Gus was way more interesting than Jesse and you guys know it.

 

[blame space]

walt was sarging

 

[Partition]

Gus was way more interesting than Jesse and you guys know it.

I agree. Jesse's character didn't really develop as much as I would of hoped.

Also I have a hard time understanding the passage of time in the last season.

Shortly before Hank discovered Walt was Heisenburg, Walt turned 51. When Walt returned to Albuquerque and ate at that Dennys, he was turning 52. A whole year somehow passed.

Walt was in New Hampshire for at least a month, and probably not much longer. This means Jesse was likely being kept in captivity for about the same amount of time, but again when Walt is at Dennys it implies an entire year passed. I find this hard to believe. When Walt returned to Jack's hideout place, it felt like the there was no passage of time at all.

 

[Dysun]

- THR: Damon Lindelof on Why 'Breaking Bad's' Finale Let Him Say Goodbye to 'Lost' (Guest Column)

He shouldn't feel so bad, it's not like he's Scott Buck and Dexter. That set a new bar for shitty endings to (at one time) good shows

 

[Mononoke]

He shouldn't feel so bad, it's not like he's Scott Buck and Dexter. That set a new bar for shitty endings to (at one time) good shows

Yeah well, according to LOST fans he totally is worse than Scott Buck. I think LOST fans need a little perspective on how bad shows can actually get.