James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
And if Walter White killed the Nazi's and in the process got killed himself as he expected, how exactly would there be any risk of Lydia doing anything to his family at that point?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Breaking Bad - The (Beautiful) Finale - Season 5 Part 2 - Sunday on AMC - OT3
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
And if Walter White killed the Nazi's and in the process got killed himself as he expected, how exactly would there be any risk of Lydia doing anything to his family at that point?
His plan was kill Jesse along with the Nazis. He changed his mind once he saw the condition Jesse was in, perhaps out of guilt, but that's not how he felt when he thought Jesse was their partner.
Jesse killed Gale because Walt told him to, and even then he didn't want to do it and afterwards moped around for an entire season. When Drew Sharpe is killed he goes nuts. He tries to sell meth to an addict, ends up in a serious relationship with her, and tries to look after her kid.
Yeah, he tried to burn down Walters house, while no one was in it.
Jesse has and always will be weak. That's not to say that is a bad quality in a person, but Jesse has always been weak and dumb. He can barely kill a bug, harming an innocent would never cross his mind. It's why he never belonged in the drug business, no matter how hard he tried he was never cut out for it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Jesse was (still is?) only a threat to himself because he's naive and easily manipulated.
Besides everyone seems to have forgotten that she is the one that helped Walt with the names of all the witnesses and was the first in wanting them dead.
And having told Skyler who she was he didn't even needed to know that the nazis had already threatened her to know that this or worse was bound to happen.
Battersea Power Station
Member
I've listened to this like 20 times today. Some of them I'm close to tears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIHRgisdbeY
While I loved the plot of the finale, I wish there was some more catharsis. The most emotionally satisfying moment was when Walter finally told Skyler (and himself) the truth. I could've used more like that, especially about Jesse's arc; Jesse was emotionally underserved in the finale. His character deserved much better.
However, as a whole series, there's not much lacking, and I become very sentimental when thinking back on the journey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIHRgisdbeY
While I loved the plot of the finale, I wish there was some more catharsis. The most emotionally satisfying moment was when Walter finally told Skyler (and himself) the truth. I could've used more like that, especially about Jesse's arc; Jesse was emotionally underserved in the finale. His character deserved much better.
However, as a whole series, there's not much lacking, and I become very sentimental when thinking back on the journey.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Oh, I am curious about one thing. I swore off this thread somewhere back in season 2 or 3 when I couldn't deal with people whom I (hyperbolically) perceived as sociopaths. But I remember there was a sizable contingent of viewers who thought Walter was acting for the good of his family. How did those people react when he admitted it was for himself? Did they not believe him? Were they mad at Gillgian? What was the reaction in that sub-community?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Creators of the show would always - always leave some space open for some kind of 'but..." when it came to his actions. That's why I expected they'd want to give him some dignity in death at the end, even if I maybe preferred, and thought it would be gutsier of them, if they didn't. You know what they did when they didn't want to leave space open for that "but..."? They'd make Todd shoot the kid point blank. They never had such completely unambiguous moment when it came to Walter.
adversesolutions
Member
Man, I liked Greenwald's earlier reviews, but hated this one.
The strength of Breaking Bad's finale was in its taut wrap-up of the entire series. It was the natural outcome. The little grievances that Greenwald writes about here come off as petty.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Was there any resolution coming from "The Fly" episode? I was expecting that eventually we'd learn that the tumor was affecting Walter's behavior or something to that effect. If that was not the case, then why that whole dramatic speech about Jesse's aunt, and Walter's obsessive behavior and seeing/hearing the fly at the end when there probably was nothing? Was that just to signal early on that his cancer has indeed returned?
Shooting Mike comes close.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
True, I thought of that, but I couldn't remember what about the whole situation made him so angry that he shot him. Mike was also of course not exactly innocent himself and was extremely dangerous, and willing to work for even more dangerous people too. Another thing was the death of Jesse's girlfriend where he didn't do anything, but there you could still think he wanted Jesse free of her terrible influence with drugs, even though it was pretty obvious it was not just that.
Mr. Blonde
Member
Theres still no evidence that walt thought jesse was a compliant partner in the nazi meth scheme.
He may have wanted to kill jesse when he entered the compound, but that was because of jesses prior role in walts demise.
Also remember that walt was saying things to get jack to react a certain way.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Jesse gave up running away from slavery due to a little boy that is not his blood and he only knew for some months. Jesse completely turned back to face the shit hit the fan because he found out a little boy was poisoned by Walter. Jesse was very distraught after Todd killed the kid on the bike. Walter knew Jesse would never harm kids (and possibly women) and Walt had two of them. Jesse had a great heart and genuinely felt guilty and bad about things he did, unlike Walt, Todd, Mike, Gus, Lydia, etc
I actually think Walt was going to kill Jesse too when Skinny Pete and Badger told him he was alive. Walt felt very betrayed by Jesse and he never thought Jesse would go to the police. He probably felt some type of anger towards Jesse because of Hank's death as well. However, once he saw that Jesse was a broken, chained, beaten, shell of his former self slave like a caged animal, he saved him. Had the nazis really partnered with Jesse, like Walt implied, he would have just jumped on the floor and hit that button.
I believe Walt definitely thought they were partners and not Jesse a slave to them. I think when he went there he wanted to kill all of them, nazis + Jesse. After seeing Jesse is when he realized what he did to Jesse and saved him.
I do agree that Walt knew Jack was arrogant and proud. Being called a liar would offend him greatly. Offending Jack would get him worked up and it did; Jack was pacing back and forth in the room after the little altercation. However, Jack would have gotten pissed regardless, but he really got heated when Walt called him a liar and said they were partners. In Jack's mind, Jesse was just a dog that was there to do what he wanted. However, Walter had no way to know that Jack had enslaved Jesse, for all he knew they really were partners.
Hell hath no fury like a tv critic scorned (by a show they've watched for a long time).
Probably. For all the people complaining about their suspension of disbelief not being able to handle the finale, this moment was waaaaaaaaaaay worse.
iirc, Vince Gilligan said something along those lines in the Talking Bad after the finale (about wanting him dead, I mean).
Walt was pretty angry when he put the pieces together in the car, and he had no reason to lead Badger or Skinny Pete on about that. It looked like he genuinely believed that Jesse was a partner, even putting aside what he said to Jack. He even waited for Jesse to be brought in before setting off the gun.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/was-the-breaking-bad-finale-all-just-a-fantasy-in-walter-whi
Was this posted?
Norm Macdonald starts tweeting about how the entire ending was in Walter White's head.
Pretty interesting.
Was this posted?
Norm Macdonald starts tweeting about how the entire ending was in Walter White's head.
Pretty interesting.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Of course it was
It's ended up becoming a main topic of discussion the last two pages,
Of course it was
It's ended up becoming a main topic of discussion the last two pages,
I JUST saw that.
Sorry
This thread is so big it's hard to read it all. I did the first 60 pages on the finale night and have tried to keep up...
I will do better next time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I JUST saw that.
Sorry
This thread is so big it's hard to read it all. I did the first 60 pages on the finale night and have tried to keep up...
I will do better next time.
It's no big thing, it's just kinda funny to me that 98% of the time "Has this been posted yet" is answerable with a "yes."
I personally think "it was all a dream" is something best left to Biggie Smalls lyrics, but if you look back a couple pages, there are a few people who dug and gave their reasons why.
PedroPanache
Member
I don't know why this one got me so good:
As succinct as that punchline is, I can't help but feel it would have been even more comically absurd if they included the full line, "I watched Todd die. I could have saved him, but I didn't."
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The episode was not about plot, really. The episode was about Walt's realization that his cooking for Gus was the only thing standing between him and death, after the cartel had called the hit. The meth cooking was LITERALLY his life at that point, so the possibility of any impurity, however minute, was enough to drive him to mania. The fly was symbolic of his own nagging self-doubt and lack of direction in a reality where he'd already lived longer than he thought he would when he got into "the game". Its recurrence at the end of the episode was to hammer in the point that it's not something that will go away.
Unfortunately, that kind of characterization never really made its way into the series before or after that.
That Damon Lindelof article is sad.
I want a retrospective look at some point, opening up.
I just ordered Seasons 1-5 of the series "Finding Lost" by Nikki Stafford. I had 6 already and loved it...and BB ended so I wanted to go back into LOST mode.
I still love that series, my favorite of all time. Regardless of story inconsistencies or whatever, the impact it had on me was super profound.
I'm sure he'll talk about it again...
I want a retrospective look at some point, opening up.
I just ordered Seasons 1-5 of the series "Finding Lost" by Nikki Stafford. I had 6 already and loved it...and BB ended so I wanted to go back into LOST mode.
I still love that series, my favorite of all time. Regardless of story inconsistencies or whatever, the impact it had on me was super profound.
I'm sure he'll talk about it again...
I've been sifting through the previous OT for the set of shots from Ozymandias with comments made by Rian Johnson. He talked about using a some hydraulic mechanism to crack the desert when Walt fell to the ground among other things.
I would really appreciate it if someone could link that image.
Also, does anyone have suggestions for good articles/websites that breakdown the level of detail that is present in the show. Foreshadowing, colors of clothing, etc.
I would really appreciate it if someone could link that image.
Also, does anyone have suggestions for good articles/websites that breakdown the level of detail that is present in the show. Foreshadowing, colors of clothing, etc.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
I actually just started rewatching Lost too. Gonna be a long awesome ride again and I am ready.
XANDER CAGE
Member
"It was all a dream" theories always come across as trying far too hard to sound clever, which (for me at least) often ends up ruining genuine attempts at meta-endings.
According to the internet, every video game, movie, and TV show in existence takes place in the main character's head.
According to the internet, every video game, movie, and TV show in existence takes place in the main character's head.
20cent
Banned
Hero
noun (plural: heroes)
1. a person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
2. the chief male character in a book, play, or film, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize:
XANDER CAGE
Member
When I think "good qualities," I think good ol' Walter White.
terribletwo
Member
yea the plane crash is largely allegorical for the insane decimation of lives that sky blue meth must be having on the southwest and beyond (wherever that meth is spreading)
BrBa doesn't really get into the effects of the drug trade on the common man, besides Jesse in the house with the ATM. The plane crash is a bit hamhanded, but surely more than ~200 lives have been wrecked by the addiction to Walt's perfect meth
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Man, just got done watching the last 8 episodes on my computer. What a wild, depressing ride. Glad I wasn't spoiled.
PedroPanache
Member
Yes, the show has never been particularly realistic in showing just have devastating a drug, meth, actually is. That's fine, because it was that type of show and you either embrace Walt's power fantasy and all the fantastical elements that come with it, or you don't. It's why I love the ending, it's his power fantasy taken to its bloody, scorched earth, logical conclusion. A story about a man who never truly lived and sacrificed everything that came before for two glorious years of living as a powerful meth kingpin, climbing the ladder until each and every one of his enemies and allies were either dead or wished they were.
I recommend Louis Theroux's wonderful documentary about crystal meth. If you're a Breaking Bad fan who has never seen it, it's a must watch. It shows the other side of Walt's power fantasy, the side that he distanced himself from and never truly acknowledged.
Louis Theroux - The City Addicted To Crystal Meth
Yeah, but you don't understand, he was thinking of Jesse when he let Jane choke on her own vomit. He could have saved her, but he didn't. Because he's a hero. You understand, right? HE WAS A HERO.
20cent
Banned
define good qualities.
He's smart, determined, care his family (whether they hate him or not because of his action is irrelevant here), etc...
A hero is a general term for main character in literature, it doesn't mean IRON MAN or 9/11 firefighters.
XANDER CAGE
Member
You seem to be under the impression that by suggesting that Walter White isn't a hero, I am saying he isn't a good character. Which isn't what I'm saying at all.
Walt is clearly an anti-hero
It's an interesting theory, but I definitely don't buy it. For one thing, Walt discovering Jesse had been working in servitude works against the idea.
Spring-Loaded
Member
So glad he admitted that he did it all for himself. I actually didn't want to throttle him in this last episode.
I had to immediately go back and watch the "You know the business, and I know the chemistry," scene from the first episode after seeing Walt and Jesse's final scene together. It looked really similar and upon re-watching that scene from the first ep., it was close.
I had to immediately go back and watch the "You know the business, and I know the chemistry," scene from the first episode after seeing Walt and Jesse's final scene together. It looked really similar and upon re-watching that scene from the first ep., it was close.
wheeeen did this happen?
I think it was when Walt came back from one of his drug deals and seem disoriented. He then pushed Skyler against the fridge and tried sticking it in her, against her will
I'm pretty sure she slapped the shit out of him.
Nicktendo86
Member
Thinking about it, the ONLY thing I kinda thought they would have and I wish they had shown on the finale was Hank & Gomie's funeral, followde by Walt's. The contrast of Hank and Gomie's, with full honours, gun salutes and all that, compared to Walt's with no one attending except maybe Jesse in the background, would have been nice.
Good point. I think I would've liked a scene like that.