-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Breaking Bad - The (Beautiful) Finale - Season 5 Part 2 - Sunday on AMC - OT3
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Did anyone post this theory from Reddit yet: http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1nno0k/breaking_bads_two_endings/
I'd say this show has three endings, the last three episodes all deliver their own resolution to the story.
That reddit fellow is also assuming too much on what the audience wanted. Walt got what he wanted but at the cost of his death. Walt thinks he fixed everything but honestly he didn't.
That reddit fellow is also assuming too much on what the audience wanted. Walt got what he wanted but at the cost of his death. Walt thinks he fixed everything but honestly he didn't.
Not sure if this has been posted:
'Breaking Bad' Alternate Endings: Vince Gilligan Reveals Discarded Finale Storylines
'Breaking Bad' Alternate Endings: Vince Gilligan Reveals Discarded Finale Storylines
I think what I liked the most about the ending, was the disturbing commentary about morality/immorality and how people that do bad things actually can get the most out of life, at the expense of others. This is what I hated about Dexter so much. When you think about it, what Dexter does is completely selfish, destructive, and it's all the expense of others - just for his own gratification. The writers decided that there was something heroic in this. And portrayed Dexter as a hero. With Walter it was the opposite. We saw the consequences for his actions, we saw the complete destruction of everyone around him.
But in the end, Walt ends up going out on his own terms. He ends up feeling alive, and dies at peace. But it's all at the expense of everyone around him. There is something disturbing about the fact that, this man that does all these selfish things (that we know is not heroic or admirable) - ends up getting what he wants out of life in the end. And again, I view Breaking Bad in a lot of ways as a play on existentialism. Walt only is able to tap into his greatness, when he no longer adheres to the rules. And the reality is, a lot of people in this life that end up getting the most out of life, are people like Walt that don't play by the rules, and who have no issue with their immorality (CEOs, Politicians etc.).
EDIT: I find it sad that, some people can't just accept that they didn't like the finale. That they are still grasping at ways to be okay with it. I know I've said this before. But I can't believe people (and even sites) are still pushing absurd theories that aren't canon.
But in the end, Walt ends up going out on his own terms. He ends up feeling alive, and dies at peace. But it's all at the expense of everyone around him. There is something disturbing about the fact that, this man that does all these selfish things (that we know is not heroic or admirable) - ends up getting what he wants out of life in the end. And again, I view Breaking Bad in a lot of ways as a play on existentialism. Walt only is able to tap into his greatness, when he no longer adheres to the rules. And the reality is, a lot of people in this life that end up getting the most out of life, are people like Walt that don't play by the rules, and who have no issue with their immorality (CEOs, Politicians etc.).
EDIT: I find it sad that, some people can't just accept that they didn't like the finale. That they are still grasping at ways to be okay with it. I know I've said this before. But I can't believe people (and even sites) are still pushing absurd theories that aren't canon.
Or how about this is how it ended because this is how it was written? God damn people are insufferable when they don't get exactly what they want.
The reason an open ended ending works for the Sopranos is because it's an open ended business. The mob is the mob is the mob. It's a story that's been around for centuries and will be around for centuries more. It passes down family lines and people die or go to jail, but it goes on.
Walt's story isn't open ended. He was dead from the first episode. It ended with a real ending because that's all it could do.
The reason an open ended ending works for the Sopranos is because it's an open ended business. The mob is the mob is the mob. It's a story that's been around for centuries and will be around for centuries more. It passes down family lines and people die or go to jail, but it goes on.
Walt's story isn't open ended. He was dead from the first episode. It ended with a real ending because that's all it could do.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Jesus their headline is misleading. None of those things were endings. One was a discarded character death. One was a discarded ending for a single season, not the series..
Fucking Huffington.
And that Reddit dude getting upvotes for huffing his own farts is par for the course.
hahaha
They seem to forget that Breaking Bad has always been filled with over the top elements and extreme luck combined with the "gritty" stuff they like.
This is great. Listening to it now
It only seems like a true ending to those that believed Walter should not get what he wants in the end. But those people are also ignoring his character arc.
Lol yet the theories conveniently ignore this
Duane Cunningham
Member
Every single last thought in Vince Gilligan's brain has been carefully extracted and recorded via interview, podcast and Talking Bad. Ultra transparency. If this theory were true, we'd have been told that this was the creator's intent by the creator himself.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Yeah, and as others have pointed out, Walt never knew Jessie was a chained up meth slave. If Felina was all a deathbed dream sequence, it's odd that the place he envisioned Uncle Jack's gang doing business out of was exactly like the place we were already shown, prior to the "fantasy". Walt's deathbed imagination was amazingly accurate!
Cornballer
Member
- NPR's Fresh Air: 'Breaking Bad' Writers: 'This Is It; There's No More'
Quotes and full audio via the link.
Quotes and full audio via the link.
Walts character arch in the final episode of self realization and acceptance is a crucial part of his character development. But Im not sure how that has any bearing on thinking Walt wouldn't get what he wanted in the end.
crackhead_bob
Member
It's like inverse Sopranos for some of the fans of that show. For many (not all), their enjoyment is predicated on the idea that Tony was killed. Anytime that theory is challenged, they become very defensive about that, discounting the theory that Tony had lived on is just as valid as if he had been killed before the sudden cut to black.
It has everything to do with it. If you watched the entire show, Walt's greatness only shined when he was doing bad things. But the blowback and consequences only came at him, because Walt's refusal to completely give in to being bad. Him trying to juggle all those things, instead of just accepting what he was doing - and why he was doing it, led to a lot of these problems.
Walt accepting it in the end, allows Walt to be great, and get what he wants. I would only agree the ending came out of left field or felt too neat, if Walt hadn't had these over the top moments of greatness throughout the show. But the fact that Walt is able to step into the drug arena and cook 99% pure meth when he breaks bad, IMO says it all. This was a story about a man's potential, and his inability to tap into this potential when he adhered to the system.
The ending made perfect sense. If you were someone that had an issue with that, and felt that it needed to end in a karma way (ie. Walt should die with losing everything, because of all the evil shit he did) - then Granite State would have been the ending that fan would have wanted. But IMO it ignores the key character arc that Felina presents.
Glad we're off to a good debate here.
Authorial intent isn't everything. If people want to interpret the ending that way I don't really see anything wrong with it. Weirder interpretations of other stories have survived scrutiny. I don't even really think Walt knowing about Jesse being a slave is quite the lynchpin on the theory people think it is, a little bit of non-linearity solves that nicely enough.
Don't get me wrong, it's not my interpretation and I think it's a lazy and silly one, but it's really not the end of the world if some people feel it works.
I didn't mean it that way. But if you choose to have that negate the rest of my post, that's up to you. But my point was, I would only agree with those saying the ending came out of left field, or that it felt too neat - if there wasn't the fact that, Walt had all these moments throughout the show that were tied to him being bad. Even Walt says this "I'm good at it". Yes he is. Walt ONLY is great, when he does bad things. Throughout the show he just never fully committed to it.
http://smileslikeareptile.tumblr.com/post/62703476444/breaking-bad-first-and-final-appearances
First and final schot of each character
First and final schot of each character
MightyHedgehog
Member
WOW Thanks for the linkage.
The Lamonster
Member
I guess Walt dreamt about Jesse dreaming about woodworking, something which he never heard from Jesse.
That's what I said, I never claimed Vince Gilligan said anything about Jesse being a partner.
I would consider Walt's reaction in the car to be evidence that he believed that, though. He knew they were desperate for a good cook when they tried to squeeze it of of him. He knew that Jack didn't keep his end of the deal and Jesse was cooking for them. Walt has offered to work in exchange for his life when Gus wanted him dead, and based on what he knew it would look like Jesse struck a deal with them to stay alive.
He was visibly shocked to see the condition Jesse was in, there wasn't any indication Walt thought he was forced to work like that.
The scene was more ambiguous than I remembered, they have Walt pick up the keys the moment Jesse comes in. Though if Walt wanted him dead, he would have no choice but to wait.
Spring-Loaded
Member
http://smileslikeareptile.tumblr.com/post/62703476444/breaking-bad-first-and-final-appearances
First and final schot of each character
Any other collections of parallels throughout the show? I love stuff like this.
The Atticus
Member
So another theory that says "Ew I don't like this ending! It can't be the real ending!".
"It has to be grittier! This show is unforgiving!" - No it isn't.
I completely disagree with them all so far.
"It has to be grittier! This show is unforgiving!" - No it isn't.
I completely disagree with them all so far.
Jack Scofield
Member
I feel like I'm progressively becoming dumber each time I open this thread and read another idiotic theory.
A testament to how great the show was is the interpretation that what we got was the 'happy' ending.
Walt is still dead, and not the way he wanted to die. His wife is still destitute and estranged from her sister. Flynn still hates him and believes he killed his uncle in cold blood. Holly will grow up hearing nothing about the man he was and only the man he became. Hank is still dead. Marie is still widowed. Gomez died with a goatee. Lydia's daughter is still orphaned. Jesse is a veritable lunatic after spending 6 months+ cooking as a slave and watching Brock orphaned and having two loves of his life taken from him. Saul's life is ruined. Elliot and Gretchen will live looking over their shoulders. There's still 70 million unaccounted for. Todd never bed Lydia. Skinny Pete and Badger will never hit the blue again.
The only winner is Heisenberg, who effectively killed Walt, and in the end the show wasn't about him. It was about Walt. This is the 'happy' ending?
Walt is still dead, and not the way he wanted to die. His wife is still destitute and estranged from her sister. Flynn still hates him and believes he killed his uncle in cold blood. Holly will grow up hearing nothing about the man he was and only the man he became. Hank is still dead. Marie is still widowed. Gomez died with a goatee. Lydia's daughter is still orphaned. Jesse is a veritable lunatic after spending 6 months+ cooking as a slave and watching Brock orphaned and having two loves of his life taken from him. Saul's life is ruined. Elliot and Gretchen will live looking over their shoulders. There's still 70 million unaccounted for. Todd never bed Lydia. Skinny Pete and Badger will never hit the blue again.
The only winner is Heisenberg, who effectively killed Walt, and in the end the show wasn't about him. It was about Walt. This is the 'happy' ending?
I would argue, Walt died exactly how he wanted to die - feeling completely alive, and happy. He died doing what he was great at. But this isn't a happy ending. It's a disturbing one. That bad people can ascend and get the most out of their at the expense of others, is disturbing and sad. As humans, we WANT to believe that the bad will always be punished. That all of us that are playing by the rules, are doing so in good faith. The reality is, a lot of people that don't adhere to the system end up getting the most out of life, whereas those that play by the rules don't.
Walt in the end ended up getting the most out of life for him, at the complete expense of everyone around him. I don't really see this as happy. That Walt got a happy ending, is not happy in the larger context.
That's how Heisenberg wanted to die. Gretchen was right, Walt died a long time ago, even as far back as Crawlspace.
Right... while the show may have been about moral ambiguity, it really wasn't about story ambiguity. Vince Gilligan ran a pretty tight ship as far as plotting things deliberately and clearly.
Walt and Heisenberg are one in the same. That was the point of the ending. Walt accepts this.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's happy for the "Team Walt!!" people. I think that's what bugs some people, now that I think about. I haven't really followed the fandom of this show, but I can see now how things were hotly debated on that front.
If the Breaking Bad finale is an optimistic fantasy from anyone's head, it's Vince Gilligan's.
He decided that rather than drag us through another hour of bitterness and misery, he would wrap everything up.
It would not be possible to resolve every character's issues in an hour. Marie would have to come to terms with Hank's death. Skyler would have to find some way to support her daughter and son without Walt. Walt would have to face an agonizing death by lung cancer. Walter Jr. would have to come to terms with not having a father, and being the son of a meth kingpin (how would people treat him?). Jesse would have to get over both his imprisonment and another girlfriend's death (read: lots of moping).
One hour isn't enough time to do all of this, so Vince Gilligan decided to wrap every story up as an extension of Walt's character arc. Walt learns that he can face dying as a selfish bastard because he learned to live as one. His family has paid for his sins, and he knows that they are better off without him, just as he was happier without them.
It's very simple, folks. Breaking Bad has done the "So convenient it's silly." thing dozens of times. Cousin #2 opting to kill Hank with an axe, Hank finding that one bullet just in time, magnets destroying computers, robbing trains while someone is distracted, killing off someone who is trying to ruin you with a conveniently timed overdose, getting Tio Salamanca to agree to serve as a wheelchair bomb for Gus, the "fugue" state, having Hank leave Jesse alone when he was standing right next to Walt in the RV, convincing Mike not to kill him because they were going after Gale, poisoning all those guys simultaneously at a party, killing all those guys within two minutes in prison without a hitch, having Mike's only gun right when you need him dead, the plane crash via Jane's grieving father, Hank's convenient panic attack saving him from the head turtle bomb, poisoning Brock to get Jesse back on your side, Jesse believing Gus actually poisoned Brock, etc.
These are all huge coincidences that have driven the plot of the show.
These are the things Walt accomplished in the last episode:
1) Got the keys to a car through a stroke of luck.
2) Walked in the Schwartz' house (this would probably be the most plausible thing, got a couple of guys to shine a laser pointer at the door, scared a rich couple)
3) Poisoned artificial sugar by knowing where the intended victim would sit.
4) Made it inside his wife's house while her house was being watched.
5) Made an M60 into a turret, was able to pull up right to the side of a house, convinced Jack to hold off murdering him (sound familiar? they've done this like 6 times already) then shielded Jesse from the gunfire.
Do any of the things on this list sound more outlandish than the other things I listed? They're not. This show has been doing crazy crap since day one. It's not suddenly a dream now.
He decided that rather than drag us through another hour of bitterness and misery, he would wrap everything up.
It would not be possible to resolve every character's issues in an hour. Marie would have to come to terms with Hank's death. Skyler would have to find some way to support her daughter and son without Walt. Walt would have to face an agonizing death by lung cancer. Walter Jr. would have to come to terms with not having a father, and being the son of a meth kingpin (how would people treat him?). Jesse would have to get over both his imprisonment and another girlfriend's death (read: lots of moping).
One hour isn't enough time to do all of this, so Vince Gilligan decided to wrap every story up as an extension of Walt's character arc. Walt learns that he can face dying as a selfish bastard because he learned to live as one. His family has paid for his sins, and he knows that they are better off without him, just as he was happier without them.
It's very simple, folks. Breaking Bad has done the "So convenient it's silly." thing dozens of times. Cousin #2 opting to kill Hank with an axe, Hank finding that one bullet just in time, magnets destroying computers, robbing trains while someone is distracted, killing off someone who is trying to ruin you with a conveniently timed overdose, getting Tio Salamanca to agree to serve as a wheelchair bomb for Gus, the "fugue" state, having Hank leave Jesse alone when he was standing right next to Walt in the RV, convincing Mike not to kill him because they were going after Gale, poisoning all those guys simultaneously at a party, killing all those guys within two minutes in prison without a hitch, having Mike's only gun right when you need him dead, the plane crash via Jane's grieving father, Hank's convenient panic attack saving him from the head turtle bomb, poisoning Brock to get Jesse back on your side, Jesse believing Gus actually poisoned Brock, etc.
These are all huge coincidences that have driven the plot of the show.
These are the things Walt accomplished in the last episode:
1) Got the keys to a car through a stroke of luck.
2) Walked in the Schwartz' house (this would probably be the most plausible thing, got a couple of guys to shine a laser pointer at the door, scared a rich couple)
3) Poisoned artificial sugar by knowing where the intended victim would sit.
4) Made it inside his wife's house while her house was being watched.
5) Made an M60 into a turret, was able to pull up right to the side of a house, convinced Jack to hold off murdering him (sound familiar? they've done this like 6 times already) then shielded Jesse from the gunfire.
Do any of the things on this list sound more outlandish than the other things I listed? They're not. This show has been doing crazy crap since day one. It's not suddenly a dream now.
Walt still screwed things up far beyond what even a conspicuously successful end-run could ever hope to rectify. So really both camps should be reasonably satisfied.
Well, shame on those for getting wrapped up in the team bullshit. That non-sense was as bad as shipping. And if you allowed that stuff to effect your enjoyment of the show, and how you expected it to end...dunno what else to say.
Although the whole teamwalt bull crap, always suggested that Walt was doing it for family. That he was sympathetic and a hero. The ending made him unsympathetic IMO and showed him as true evil. I don't see how it made him a hero.
Can we stop with this "Heisenberg killed Walt" crap? Why absolve Walt of his choices? He wanted this, he did this, and it was Walt that died. Yeah, Heisenberg is a fun little comic-book alter-ego way of denoting his power hungry ego, but Walt's not bipolar. He doesn't have a split personality.
All Heisenberg ever was, was a moniker Walt used when he was doing bad things. He's not another person. He's not some split personality. It's just Walt - when he was doing bad things. At best, you could argue that thematically - Heisenberg served to show the difference between Walt when he was committed to being bad, to the Walt that was trying to juggle what he was doing.
But in the end, Walt clearly accepts that he is bad. That he did it for himself, and enjoyed it. In this sense, Heisenberg and Walt were the same. They were always the same. But physically in the plot, Heisenberg is nothing more than just a name.
Dion Blaster
Member
They were deciding between a half-our comedy with dramatic elements, or a 1 hour drama with comedic elements. Went with the latter.
I agree, looking at them as two separate entities seems like a weird way to analyze the show. I look at the last episode as Walt finally not making excuses for himself and finally owning up to why he made these choices. No longer putting any of this on his family.
On a side note, a lot of these episodes are pretty interesting to re-watch now after Walt admitted to Skyler that it's all for him and that he enjoyed it. I mean that was always fairly evident before, it's a cool paradigm shift when watching the show though, viewing what he does as something he's embracing rather than something he has to do. It actually makes a lot more sense.
I dont get why so many are saying knocking the snow off the window is too perfect and a dream/fantasy. I have done it too many times to count living in Colorado. It all depends on how it is cold and if the snow is powder. Snow in the Rocky Mountain is usually powder, that is why people like to board/ski here compared to the NE. Snow in NE is a little different, but doubt they put too much thought into how the snow sticks to the window in the Rocky Mountains compared to the White Mountains. I brush the snow off my truck after a winter storm, not scrape it off.
I pre-ordered the shit out of it the morning after the finale. I'm going to roll it around the office as son as it arrives
With everything it comes with, I think it's totally worth it, I MUST HAVE IT!
I'm watching ABQ again and seeing Jesse cry for Jane... Damn son.