BloodySinner
Banned
Seems reasonable. I'm glad I did not pay full price for this.
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Brink |OT| _/^\_
- Thread starter Sanic
- Start date
Seems reasonable. I'm glad I did not pay full price for this.
thezerofire
Banned
well yeah, give a pc sniper a reticule and it's going to be a jokeSneakyStephan said:RTCW - s&d (or plant the bomb if you wish) hybrid.
You are reaching to argue over semantics, I don't know why.
Halo guns are far from recoilless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY
Pistol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHwHfgT9yA
The assault rifle, 40 seconds in, has plenty of recoil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSC-qkicac
this is what happens when you do have a recoilless gun in a game with slow movement.
The sniper in halo CE on pc was a joke.
I have both the pc and xbox version
weekend_warrior
Banned
SneakyStephan said:RTCW - s&d (or plant the bomb if you wish) hybrid.
You are reaching to argue over semantics, I don't know why.
Halo guns are far from recoilless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY
Pistol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHwHfgT9yA
The assault rifle, 40 seconds in, has plenty of recoil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSC-qkicac
this is what happens when you do have a recoilless gun in a game with slow movement.
The sniper in halo CE on pc was a joke.
I have both the pc and xbox version
All I'm urging about is why every game needs to fit into a formula in order to be fun. I don't care if Brink has recoil or not. Everyone is playing the same thing, so if it works it's fine and if it doesn't then they'll fix it.
Paying full price for an 80-83 game sounds quite reasonable too, if you ask me.BloodySinner said:
I've not played the game yet so I don't know, but seeing how the AI is probably quite bad (no surprise, happens in almost all games..) and most of the reviewers have probably had almost no chances to play online (or did they?), then I'd guess an 85 or below sounds about right.
But this game feels like one of those games that will have quite a few followers playing it until Brink 2 comes (if it does, guess we gotta wait for the next NPD to be sure!) because it's quite unique.
Teknopathetic
Member
"The assault rifle, 40 seconds in, has plenty of recoil."
That's your definition of "plenty of recoil?"
Are you sure you're not talking about bullet spread?
That's your definition of "plenty of recoil?"
Are you sure you're not talking about bullet spread?
Yeah I was pretty sure recoil is the kick back of the gun after firing it, not just randomly going inaccurate, and if my definition is correct then none of those guns had recoil. Also in the future it is possible that guns will have little to no recoil at all. Hell the AA-12 (fully auto shotgun) barely has any.Teknopathetic said:
Weapon Bloom is when the weapon becomes inaccurate as you hold down the trigger. Almost every modern FPS game has this now.
Weapon Recoil is when the gun jerks off of your target, often jerking harder the faster you're shooting. This forces you to constantly re-aim every shot as you're firing. It's like having a constant screen shake while you hold your trigger down.
With enough movement involved, Bloom is all you really need to help balance a console shooter. On PC, people will just get around it using burst fire and semi-automatic weaponry, and you need something more to keep it difficult to aim at the higher levels.
A game can change up the forumla, but it doesn't always work. He was giving the tried and true means that many games even releasing now follow and tweak for their version of fun.
Take Team Fortress 2 for an example. It's a slower, methodical, objective and team based game, and so it's generally listed under that second category. At the same time, due to many of the jump mechanics, and the balance between classes that use projectiles and classes that use various types of hitscan weapons, you could say that it also fits into the first category with Quake and the like. And presto, you have changed up the formula and made a new fun game.
This is also something that really affects PC, because with no recoil and hitscan, the most powerful weapon almost always becomes some type of sniper rifle. This is much of the reason why many of the class based games to come out in the last several years have tried to marginalize the weapon by putting it on a very fragile class, and yet it's still powerful enough to cause people to empty a server at times. In games without classes, they've tried to decrease the use of no scopes and quick scopes by forcing inaccuracy.
Personally, I feel like Brink borrows most heavily from the first category, using the SMART system for traversing instead of, say, having rocket jumping. It tries to use the objective based gameplay, plus a lack of very open spaces combined with a surplus of cover, to take some power away from the hitscan. Combined with the fact that even without recoil, the bloom of many of the weapons increases so quickly and to such a large size that the game demands either burst fire or close range combat, I think things will end up okay.
Medium = 140 HP
Heavy = 160 HP
So yeah, the Heavy doesn't have much more health than the Light. Plus, he's also much slower and can do much fewer parkour movements. They make it up by being the only weight class that can use miniguns and grenade launchers, both weapons that can easily mow down enemies faster than they can get taken out.
Weapon Recoil is when the gun jerks off of your target, often jerking harder the faster you're shooting. This forces you to constantly re-aim every shot as you're firing. It's like having a constant screen shake while you hold your trigger down.
With enough movement involved, Bloom is all you really need to help balance a console shooter. On PC, people will just get around it using burst fire and semi-automatic weaponry, and you need something more to keep it difficult to aim at the higher levels.
weekend_warrior said:
A game can change up the forumla, but it doesn't always work. He was giving the tried and true means that many games even releasing now follow and tweak for their version of fun.
Take Team Fortress 2 for an example. It's a slower, methodical, objective and team based game, and so it's generally listed under that second category. At the same time, due to many of the jump mechanics, and the balance between classes that use projectiles and classes that use various types of hitscan weapons, you could say that it also fits into the first category with Quake and the like. And presto, you have changed up the formula and made a new fun game.
This is also something that really affects PC, because with no recoil and hitscan, the most powerful weapon almost always becomes some type of sniper rifle. This is much of the reason why many of the class based games to come out in the last several years have tried to marginalize the weapon by putting it on a very fragile class, and yet it's still powerful enough to cause people to empty a server at times. In games without classes, they've tried to decrease the use of no scopes and quick scopes by forcing inaccuracy.
Personally, I feel like Brink borrows most heavily from the first category, using the SMART system for traversing instead of, say, having rocket jumping. It tries to use the objective based gameplay, plus a lack of very open spaces combined with a surplus of cover, to take some power away from the hitscan. Combined with the fact that even without recoil, the bloom of many of the weapons increases so quickly and to such a large size that the game demands either burst fire or close range combat, I think things will end up okay.
Light = 120 HPNocebo said:
Medium = 140 HP
Heavy = 160 HP
So yeah, the Heavy doesn't have much more health than the Light. Plus, he's also much slower and can do much fewer parkour movements. They make it up by being the only weight class that can use miniguns and grenade launchers, both weapons that can easily mow down enemies faster than they can get taken out.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Teknopathetic said:
Same thing, you sure are keen to pick at details.
Wheter your reticule goes up with every shot from recoil or the spread makes the bullets go all over the place, the result is the same: you have to aim before you shoot and you can't hold the trigger down.
The term spread in real life just means how close together your shots landed (skill of the person holding the gun), in a game it's very much a consequence of the kickback from the gun, most people don't even know what spread means so I use the term recoil.
CS (not css) has a perfect combination of both, you can compensate for the recoil a bit by dragging your crosshair down and left with the AK for the first 2-3 shots but after that the spread keeps you from hitting anything at all.
@ thezero, smgs and ARs with no spread and almost no recoil (happy tekno?) turn into rapid fire snipers on pc.
Some people here seem to assume spread means some random dice roll to decide where a bullet lands. (which definately isn't what anyone means by it)
The first bullet will always hit dead on target, so you still have full control of where you shoot, as long as you burst fire or single shot fire , managing your rate of fire yourself to steady your aim between bursts/shots.
Anyone who played firearms, cs, AA or Dod (though that game had little recoil in comparison) and got good at it will know how satisfying kills are when they rely on self control.
edit: thanks proven for clarifying what I was saying.
@ the modern weapons have no recoil thing: that doesn't mean it would be more fun in a video game setting.
If you could theoretically have a car with a perfectly stiff chassis and a suspension that makes somehow manages to keep the centre of gravity right in the middle of the car, and tyres that don't lose grip etc.
That car would be pretty boring to drive in a racing game.
Personally I still find the weapons in cs 1.5 and america's army (before the 2.0 version) the most satisfying and fun to use when it comes to how recoil is handled.
Many of the WWII shooters 6-10 years ago also had really fun weapons.
classicdms
Neo Member
The AA 12 is ridiculous though. I wonder what's taking so long for that tech to make it's way into assault rifles.rac said:
Hopefully by the time Brink takes place. Then I don't have to hear sneakystephan bitch about it anymore.classicdms said:
Comparing the recoil of cs to halo now, really?
Proven said:
That's good and all but you don't need to re-aim any shot after firing in halo. You need to wait for the bloom to go down sure but your gun doesn't actually kick.
Snapshot King
Member
classicdms said:
This is just a guess, but I imagine cost is a factor.
thezerofire
Banned
good lord CS's recoil/spread makes Halo seem like easy mode. that and the players. I admit, getting a kill in it is a lot more satisfying.
Teknopathetic
Member
"@ thezero, smgs and ARs with no spread and almost no recoil (happy tekno?) turn into rapid fire snipers on pc."
Don't mix up two things into one then get into a huff, saying someone's picking at details because others find your posts confusing. Be clear about what you mean the first time.
Don't mix up two things into one then get into a huff, saying someone's picking at details because others find your posts confusing. Be clear about what you mean the first time.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I didn't compare them to eachother at all, what exactly is your problem?rac said:
Is my curiosity about the pc recoil that the devs talked about or my opinion about what makes a gun fun to shoot for me in a video game somehow interfering with your ability to enjoy or anticipate the game?
Do you need other people to tell you something is flawless and amazing before you can feel confident about your own opinion or about buying something?
I'd appreciate it if you either left me alone unless you have something constructive to say, or take it to PM instead of being a jerk in the forums.
@ tekno: I didn't mean to be hostile towards you, I just assumed that it was evident.
I clarified what I meant, and yes I used the wrong word for it.
weekend_warrior
Banned
classicdms said:
The AA12 uses a gas chamber blow-back and long recoil spring like almost every modern automatic rifle.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Does accuracy increase for the heavy bodytype compared to the light one? (rambo arms able to handle kickback better)
The health difference is pretty small, especially considering how much faster on his feet the light is.
If the health is the only other difference I'll probably stick to playing light.
I wonder if their hit boxes differ too.
) The health difference is pretty small, especially considering how much faster on his feet the light is.
If the health is the only other difference I'll probably stick to playing light.
I wonder if their hit boxes differ too.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Nocebo said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqnzDwFopQ
He used a minigun for a good part of this match.
I'm really of the opinion that developers shouldn't mimic the recoil and/or spread of a real weapon's video game counterpart. If they do, why stop at recoil/spread? Make it jam. Force players to fire machine guns in small bursts to prevent overheating.Dina said:
I say develop the weapons in a way that's challenging for the player. Add some recoil.
thezerofire
Banned
I'll give all the body types a chance, but I can't see myself using much other than the Light type. being able to move around just seems more useful, especially for only a 40 HP difference.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Any word yet on how long it takes to level to 20? I already have two full character builds in mind: a focused light Soldier, and an Engineer hybrid. It seems that there are plenty of difficult choices to make, and I can't imagine being able to stick to just one!
divisionbyzorro
Member
dogmanstaruk said:
No, the fact that people's livelihoods (salary, bonuses) are at stake with regards to metacritic scores is the real problem.
Princess Carl
Member
divisionbyzorro said:
Yup
And I already see the numerous 70s because the reviewer will either be bad at the game or choose to bitch about the lack of "Real" single player.
Calling it right now.
thezerofire
Banned
Shadowrun got in the 60's because of a lack of single player, so I can see itLead Based Paint said:
Spiritreaver
Member
So excited. Preloaded and in the Neogaf group. Whoo!
Stripper13
Member
I have no issues with what I have seen recoil wise thus far. I'm not a huge fan of iron sight laser pointers that are increasingly present in shooters, but that's mostly due to the pinpoint accuracy devastating in COD style shooters where you die in one second. In a game where there is more HP, it seems like a reasonably good idea - so watching Brink doesn't really have me worried. I do however think that if the guns are going to be so deadly accurate that adding any kind of recoil is unnecessary, and I would much prefer a Halo style bloom effect. I'd prefer this primarily due to the fact that the Battlefield/COD often falls into a small subset of weapons due to guns that differentiate, or have considerable recoil are automatically written off in favor of a straight shooter regardless of stats/clip/damage.
SneakyStephan
Banned
tf2 and bf1942 got very high review scores despite having no real singleplayer campaign, but yeah I wouldn't put reviewers above doing that.thezerofire said:
Dog Problems
Banned
weekend_warrior said:
That is awesome. I'm always a sucker for the minigun.
L4D2 had a fair amount of implied story in the levels which was good, hopefully Brink's levels have similar attention to detail.vidal said:
Then L4D2 had 20 individual maps all told, whereas we're hearing what like 10 maps for Brink?
That said after four years or so I imagine those maps are pretty damn replayable.
divisionbyzorro
Member
vidal said:
Also reviews are much kinder to co-op focused games versus competitive multiplayer focused games.
divisionbyzorro
Member
No, the problem here is going to be that the marketing was terrible. What was marketed as a completely integrated single- and multi-player experience that would revolutionize gaming turned out to be "single player is multiplayer with bots." It's going to be very difficult for reviewers to get those bad marketing lines out of their heads and evaluate the game for what it is.