Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Humour....? I WANT MY NEKID MENZ!
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BritGAF |OT5| Superb Birds, Absurd Turds and Disturbed Nerds
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Humour....? I WANT MY NEKID MENZ!
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
I really did want you to elaborate sploatee. Mostly because I can think of ways to assuage personal guilt but wanted to drive home that it was wrong.
Where I stand is that there is not really a defensible reason to view the leaked photos, and yet people will still try to find an excuse. Most of us looked at the pictures whether or not we acknowledged it was probably a mean or sad thing to participate in even as a spectator.
Pornography is a step away because there is the legal requirement (for professional works) of consent even if some people in it don't really want to be in the industry. By contrast most if not all of the leaked photos as you mentioned are being seen by people they were never intended for. Whether you are a celebrity or just a random person, that is likely, on some level, mortifying.
Acknowledging these facts, I still looked at the pictures out of curiosity and sexual interest. Perhaps a single man viewing pictures seen by millions doesn't make a difference, but there isn't any excuse for it that sidesteps the shame aspect. It still feels wrong and of ill conscious. But it wasn't enough to stop me from doing it. Sort of like hearing about the beheaded journalist and still looking up the video to see it for myself anyway.
It's a bit scary to think how indifferent the Internet can inspire people to be.
Where I stand is that there is not really a defensible reason to view the leaked photos, and yet people will still try to find an excuse. Most of us looked at the pictures whether or not we acknowledged it was probably a mean or sad thing to participate in even as a spectator.
Pornography is a step away because there is the legal requirement (for professional works) of consent even if some people in it don't really want to be in the industry. By contrast most if not all of the leaked photos as you mentioned are being seen by people they were never intended for. Whether you are a celebrity or just a random person, that is likely, on some level, mortifying.
Acknowledging these facts, I still looked at the pictures out of curiosity and sexual interest. Perhaps a single man viewing pictures seen by millions doesn't make a difference, but there isn't any excuse for it that sidesteps the shame aspect. It still feels wrong and of ill conscious. But it wasn't enough to stop me from doing it. Sort of like hearing about the beheaded journalist and still looking up the video to see it for myself anyway.
It's a bit scary to think how indifferent the Internet can inspire people to be.
I feel bad now, Meat. If I had access to photoshop I'd do my best to deliver promised Abbott nudes 
I don't think it's an internet thing either, necessarily.
I think my feelings are that the damage has already been done. If it was someone I knew then I'm guessing we'd be vexed about the fact that the pictures were on the net, not that any given individual unknown to us was viewing them. If everyone viewed 'em but nobody talked about 'em, the harm would be much reduced.
I don't think it's an internet thing either, necessarily.
Chips are still good though. Fries have their place but chunky chips are the best.
BUT GEOFF DID NOT CONSENT.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
If not the Internet, do you reckon it's just human nature in general? For example, at what point do you think "hold on a minute, this crosses the line, let me not click that link"? Perhaps the Internet didn't create these impulses, it just provided a platform for people to indulge in mass on "what can I see / do" rather than stopping to consider what they should or should not see or do.
Like how some people think Twitter birthed tons of idiots when really it just gave an easily abusable megaphone to everyone and the idiots that already existed simply outed themselves.
Like how some people think Twitter birthed tons of idiots when really it just gave an easily abusable megaphone to everyone and the idiots that already existed simply outed themselves.
It's that combination of anonymity and distance. Nothing is real in the cyberfuture.
I feel bad now, Meat. If I had access to photoshop I'd do my best to deliver promised Abbott nudes
I think my feelings are that the damage has already been done. If it was someone I knew then I'm guessing we'd be vexed about the fact that the pictures were on the net, not that any given individual unknown to us was viewing them. If everyone viewed 'em but nobody talked about 'em, the harm would be much reduced.
I don't think it's an internet thing either, necessarily.
You've made a good point. I'm coming at it from my own moral position, so I was a bit reluctant to get too far into it. Me personally (I don't think I can stress the subjectivity much more!), I wouldn't look at them on principle. If you want to look at them and you're OK with that - as in honestly ok, it doesn't affect your conscience, you feel you can defend your position - then that's all fine and good. I'm scared this sounds pompous, passive aggressive etc. It's not meant to.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
BUT ABBOTT DID!
As an aside, I always used to get Capes mixed up with Terry Waite.
I feel bad now, Meat. If I had access to photoshop I'd do my best to deliver promised Abbott nudes
YA USED ME SMOKY! YA USED ME!
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Actually an interesting point here. Yes, I looked at the boobies (sidebar, today I learned pictures don't work on me any more) and there are a million and one reasons (ok, probably at least 6), but if I found out there were noodz of any of youse online I would have looked them up too. I'm a bad person.
OKAY BUT
I wouldn't think of watching a beheading video, the idea of it sickens me, and I think it's really disturbing that pretty much anyone capable of spelling their own name can probably find them.
I lost steam with all those parentheses earlier but basically, boobies are better than death, right? Or at least, healthier?
I think it's interesting, voyeurism isn't rare at all after all. Most people would take a peek at something if it was there, wouldn't they? Or is this a particular thing to our information generation? Information on specific boobs exists, we must find this information, assimilate it and then move on.
I wonder if something like this happening has a kind of chilling effect on the celebs' fandom? Like, now all the JLaw gif people have seen her bum will they move on to a celebrity that they haven't seen nude yet and transfer that tension of "I need to know" to a new person?
Anyway, these are the things I have been thinking about today. Like so many things on the internet, I'm finding it hard to find the exact moral line.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I think if nothing else it's nice to have someone around with a different opinion on these things. No fighting, only thinking aloud.
Musha_Soturi
Member
Cereal
Nerdkiller
Membeur
Little Old Man
Member
First day of my 'proper job' over. Felt like the first day of school more than anything, they even let us go home early. I almost asked 'where's my milk carton,I need some calcium!'
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I don't click on plenty of stuff because I'm concerned on what I'll find on the other side. The Deep Web was terrifying, I could barely use it for fear of finding something terrible.
I guess it boils down to: there were boobs. Why did I think it was OK to look for them (following Sploatee's feelings that it's an invasion)? Or from the other side, why would I not think it's ok to look for them - as in, why would these boobs be any different from boobs on gonewild or camshows or what have you (from my own "information gathering" perspective I suppose)?
I've seen literally thousands of naked people on the internet, chances are a good proportion of those were uploaded or propagated without the consent of the 'star'. Because I 'know' the subjects of these pictures they're charged with more meaning, but does this alone mean that we should avoid them? When we get into questions of consent the language starts to get a bit rapey I think, and that's when I recoil from it and think "well it's nowhere near that". Is it? I hope not at least.
One thing to consider is the reaction from a lot of people who have seen these pics, which is kinda "oh, is that it?" as the glamour of celebrity is stripped away to reveal some people with no clothes on pointing cameras at themselves. Some of it is mundane, some of it is cute, some of it's a bit racy. It's weird, but I think I understand Kate Upton a lot more as a person now than I did yesterday (as if that means anything significant haha, of course it doesn't). But then that's just me, I try to be empathetic. Maybe it could fuel hatred in other people, who knows.
thoughts thoughts thoughts
NinjaBoiX
Member
It's totally different than porn/cam stuff Jed, that's done with the intent to be viewed by anyone wanting to view it, consent is predetermined. Nobody feels like their privacy and freedom of choice have been violated.
Leaked nudes were clearly intended to be viewed by a specific person, looking at them purely because you are able to is akin to sitting reading someone's sex texts over their shoulder on the bus or something.
That said, uploading nudie selfies to the cloud is dumb as fuck to be fair.
Leaked nudes were clearly intended to be viewed by a specific person, looking at them purely because you are able to is akin to sitting reading someone's sex texts over their shoulder on the bus or something.
That said, uploading nudie selfies to the cloud is dumb as fuck to be fair.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Well if we're splitting hairs I actually meant when cam shows get recorded and put on tube sites, that's against ToS and usually these are private shows that someone recorded, so it's a bit similar - intended for small audience, viewed by many.
Would also totally read sex texts over someone's shoulder.
edit: if you view it not as pornography but as information it becomes a stranger, more interesting question I think. How often do you turn down information?
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
To be fair, I think i might be addicted to information, I hoard facts. fakedit: I think this is known as curiosity hahaha
it's been a long day thinking about boring shit
I need to get a job in a panopticon or something
it's been a long day thinking about boring shit
I need to get a job in a panopticon or something
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
After seeing the picture in the meetup thread, I couldnt resist....
LOVE IT
Healthy cereal?
Have you never had one?! Oh no - sort it out! Baked potato - mash up the inside with lots of butter / margarine, add salt. Happiness.
As I was walking home I thought about using rape language to describe it but decided against it.
I always hesitate to use the word rape. To me, rape refers to a very specific thing - forced sexual intercourse. I would call this a mass invasion of women's privacy which huge swathes of people are knowingly participating in.
It sounds like you made the leap from porn images to these images really naturally. I don't know what that says about the internet and desensitisation, but it makes me uncomfortable - not in the sense of "I am now frightened you're a murderer" - but in the sense how easily so many people appear to have just made a natural leap.
I can understand your point about it de-glamourising the world some of these actresses live in, but I still don't think it's justified. Your point about Kate Upton is kind of weird to me - you feel you know her better by looking through her private photos? These aren't porn stars - they're actresses - working women with families and their own stories. Jenny McCarthy has children - I wonder what happens when they find out about this. Kirsten Dunst struggles with depression - I wonder what happens to her when she finds out. Rihanna has already been beaten to a pulp by Chris Brown - I wonder how this feels on top of that.
I can already anticipate a response along the lines of "well, I am sure they are crying all the way to the bank" - well, maybe, but the whole thing still stinks to me and I wonder about the kind of message this sends out to younger girls - "hey, don't worry, your body doesn't belong to you! it belongs to all the men that want to look at it!". Sorry, but nope nope nope.
P.S. I should say I'd also much rather have this discussion here where people actually listen to each other.
show me your skeleton
Member
currently eating fruit mentos, is that tea enough for you?
Look I'm not going to judge. If you want to eat fruit mentos that's fine. It's just fine. I had gooey scrambled eggs on buttered toast. It was glorious.
JonathanEx
Member
Well I just made sweet and sour chicken with egg fried rice. Now to not get any questions on Uni Challenge.
NinjaBoiX
Member
JonathanEx
Member
Oh that reminds me. I was going through TV and caught a bit of Paramore at R+L festival. I don't think the green hair look is a good one. Disapprove.
I'm sure she's gutted by this, the thoughts of some random knob, but I thought I'd say it.
I'm sure she's gutted by this, the thoughts of some random knob, but I thought I'd say it.
dapperbandit
Banned
I'm trying to work out whether I want the the tuna pasta bake I have in the fridge, or a walk to Sainsbo's to get something else, or a walk AND the tuna pasta bake.
Flipped a coin, going out to Sainsbo's.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I totally see where you're coming from and even agree with a lot of it. Your point about making the "leap from porn images to these images really naturally" is very interesting. I've definitely seen videos where the recipient was one intended person but it's been made public as well and (this is probably terrible but) these are some of my favourites. Something about the intimacy, it's just more 'real' than something more performative where the actress knows it's going out to a wider audience. Obviously this is a form of voyeurism but who does it hurt (a question I put to myself more than to you, I think since you set it out fairly well in your following paragraph)? Is one extra person other than the intended recipient seeing it as bad as a thousand or a million in this case? Once the transgression of the theft and distribution has already happened, does the potential hurt scale? Probably.
I don't know, I probably am trying to rationalise this but that horse has bolted, can't unsee what has been seen. But now I feel a bit more guilty I guess
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I am having pulled pork burgers. I might even use coleslaw and I never eat coleslaw.
I totally see where you're coming from and even agree with a lot of it. Your point about making the "leap from porn images to these images really naturally" is very interesting. I've definitely seen videos where the recipient was one intended person but it's been made public as well and (this is probably terrible but) these are some of my favourites. Something about the intimacy, it's just more 'real' than something more performative where the actress knows it's going out to a wider audience. Obviously this is a form of voyeurism but who does it hurt (a question I put to myself more than to you, I think since you set it out fairly well in your following paragraph)? Is one extra person other than the intended recipient seeing it as bad as a thousand or a million in this case? Once the transgression of the theft and distribution has already happened, does the potential hurt scale? Probably.
I don't know, I probably am trying to rationalise this but that horse has bolted, can't unsee what has been seen. But now I feel a bit more guilty I guess
Haha. Hulk care not for arbitrary nature of human sexual arousal! Feel the burning pangs of your conscience, puny human!
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
After all I've written on it, I've come to a conclusion:
Stealing pics of people from their phones and putting it on the internet: definitely wrong
Look at stolen pictures of people once they're on the internet: less bad than watching a beheading
Stealing pics of people from their phones and putting it on the internet: definitely wrong
Look at stolen pictures of people once they're on the internet: less bad than watching a beheading
Musha_Soturi
Member
Of course!
This exercise malarkey is hard, I don't like it.
Weighed and also took measurements today. Not happy.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Can I use this as my avatar? Please for the love of god.After seeing the picture in the meetup thread, I couldnt resist....
NinjaBoiX
Member
Beheading naked celebrities and putting it on the net is the most heinous crime.
Yeah, her hair is so crazy these days, it seems to be a different colour every few months. So is her stage wear, she rocks boxing shorts for God's sake.
But she's cool, popular and hot, I guess she can wear what the fuck she likes and still get teenage girls wanting to Steal her Style
Fill your boots boss.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Really good mate, drank some champagne, had a lush meal, almost got accosted by an overly amorous homosexual, drank beer with transvestites then boogied to some funk and disco. It was a quiet one in terms of numbers, but I had a great time!
Can't go the EGX one in a few weeks though, I'll have to make up for it at Christmas. There is going to be a Manc mini-meet too, which may well end up just being me, Mike and our respective ladyfriends but that could be just the ticket at a side dish to the main event.
Edit: our two avatars in close proximity freaks me out a little, haha.
Dang it. You better make up for it at the Christmas one. I want to meet ya.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
You do lose a piece of humanity when you see the truly terrible things. I think everyone has an example of seeing something more awful than they were prepared for on the internet, whether they intentionally sought it out or not. Curiosity and indifference are a dangerous mix I think. Sometimes people get to a place where they look at things to upset them in order to feel something. That is a very dangerous thing.
Thanks for your thoughts Jed and Sploatee. Got a little abstract there.
Thanks for your thoughts Jed and Sploatee. Got a little abstract there.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
About those leaked nude pics (and no, I haven't looked at them or even searched for them).
I'm kind of with Sploat on this one. It's the legend of Lady Godiva all over again.
It's no good saying the damage has been done already, because the damage that has been done is by people - including the likes of us - looking at the pictures. And that's damage done not only to the celeb in question, but to us and to society.
It is the excuse of paedophiles the world over that just looking at pictures does no harm and creates no nuisance. But it does even worse than that. it creates a market, it creates demand, it encourages supply, it encourages harm.
Same thing here. Looking at leaked selfies creates clicks, creates a market, creates a demand and creates the leaks that - I hope - we find distasteful (or at least would find distasteful if it happened to us).
I'm kind of with Sploat on this one. It's the legend of Lady Godiva all over again.
It's no good saying the damage has been done already, because the damage that has been done is by people - including the likes of us - looking at the pictures. And that's damage done not only to the celeb in question, but to us and to society.
It is the excuse of paedophiles the world over that just looking at pictures does no harm and creates no nuisance. But it does even worse than that. it creates a market, it creates demand, it encourages supply, it encourages harm.
Same thing here. Looking at leaked selfies creates clicks, creates a market, creates a demand and creates the leaks that - I hope - we find distasteful (or at least would find distasteful if it happened to us).
NinjaBoiX
Member
Exacto-fucking-mundo.
Everyone clicking is just as responsible, if not necessarily culpable, for this and future leaks. The end result is that:
a) celebrities feel violated and horrified that they've been seen naked and in a compromising position against their will
b) the leaker gets crazy click dollars and thinks "well that was worth my time"
Saying "I'm just looking after the fact so what's the harm" is naive beyond belief.
Anyway, I'm not particularly condoning the peeping toms, worse things have happened at sea and all that, just felt the need to reply to these paper thin arguments.
Here, have a cat looking awkward:
You'll get there!
I hate having to diet. Hate it. I probably should at the moment, it'd be nice to not be tubby for my next social interaction (EGX!) but I'm not sure I can do it. I like peanut butter. A lot.
sigh...
Musha_Soturi
Member
The worst thing is when I have to tell people I'm on a diet (because they simply cannot understand why I'm not drinking down the pub at lunchtime), they look me up and down and give me a funny look as if I'm mad and say "But you don't need to diet!" Drives me mad.
I dress well to hide the flub! At the end of the day when I look at myself naked in a mirror I'm not happy with what I see, therefore I choose to do something about it. I don't need people making me feel like a silly anorexic girl.
Rant over.
How is everyone on this fine morning?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I don't mean to dissuade you, but does anyone like what they see when they look at themselves naked in the mirror? I feel like that kind of validation comes only the opinions of others.
What did you think of the Princess Peach nudez?
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