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Castlevania: Lords of Shadow |OT| The MercurySteam has Vanquished the Horrible Night

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Fimbulvetr said:
So, what, this somehow makes bad rip-offs of its system good?



But it wasn't fun, it's a big cool looking spectacle, but it wasn't fun.

Your fun is a subjective judgement.

Calling something a rip-off is dicey territory once a particular game sets a standard. It's true that God of War, for example, merely invokes the visual motif of fighting a mountain sized boss. On the other hand, we can say that God of War "rips-off" a dozen other games that came before it, from which it lifts almost carbon copy entire sets of mechanics, their execution, and sometimes even button mapping on a Dual Shock pad.

If, perchance, you had enjoyed the titan battles in this game, would you have called them "homages" rather than "rip-offs?"
 
-DarKaoZ- said:
It's a homage, the idea is there: "hit the weak spots to kill huge boss".

I never said a imitation or a exact copy, LoS is the closest to it and I think it was as fun as SotC but more limited and that is ok, as long as it's not unplayable.

1) Being an homage does not remove all criticism.

2) SotC didn't invent weak points on a huge boss, it was popular for letting you traverse their bodies to get to the weakpoints and for the bosses being especially big.

3) I never said it was unplayable, just bad(I.E. a chair full of pins is sit-able, it's still pretty bad).

Belfast said:
It's not an opinion. The battles are technically well-done and mechanically sound. There are no mysteries being withheld from the player in terms of what to do (well, enough to make it a slight platforming puzzle), and it follows a logical sequence of events from beginning to end.

To say that they were "bad" rip-offs would imply that each encounter is riddled with bugs and/or is patently unfair to complete.

No, it's technically finished and mechanically playable.

You see, those are factual statements with no bias. Well-done? Opinion. Sound? The same.

I can shit in my backpack, it's large enough to hold my shit and if I stick the bag in my basement the smell wouldn't bother me. That isn't a good idea though, of course whether or not you find that a good idea is an opinion.

It's a bad rip-off because it is a boring, limited sequence, that completely ignores the legitimately decent combat system for some lame attempt at a huge spectacle.

Kaijima said:
Your fun is a subjective judgement.

Calling something a rip-off is dicey territory once a particular game sets a standard. It's true that God of War, for example, merely invokes the visual motif of fighting a mountain sized boss. On the other hand, we can say that God of War "rips-off" a dozen other games that came before it, from which it lifts almost carbon copy entire sets of mechanics, their execution, and sometimes even button mapping on a Dual Shock pad.

If, perchance, you had enjoyed the titan battles in this game, would you have called them "homages" rather than "rip-offs?"

But I don't care if it's a rip-off. I just want it to not be crappy. The combat in this game could be a carbon copy of God of War, DMC, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden, etc. in every way shape and form.

If it's executed well, I'd have fun with it.

And yes, people. I know that my opinion is, in fact, my opinion. Just like your opinion is yours. That's the basis for arguments.
 

Sidzed2

Member
I can see why some would despise the Titan encounters but I just don't feel the level of enmnity towards them that others do.

They are blatant rip-offs of SotC, certainly, but to be honest I don't care. They make for gorgeous visuals, are scored with amazing music, and are pretty short in duration. All in all, they don't have much of an impact on the game or detract from everything else it does right.
 

-DarKaoZ-

Banned
Fimbulvetr said:
And yes, people. I know that my opinion is, in fact, my opinion. Just like your opinion is yours. That's the basis for arguments.

Then why try to convince us that it's not fun? In my case I had fun playing the sequences and I have no problem with them, they look great and reminded me to SotC in a good way. It even make me want a full complete HD remake of SotC instead of the res-up SotC we will get later on.

I just find it funny that you keep trying to say the boss battles are bad to the people who thought they were cool. We won't change our opinion and neither you, so why even bother? :lol
 
-DarKaoZ- said:
Then why try to convince us that it's not fun? In my case I had fun playing the sequences and I have no problem with them, they look great and reminded me to SotC in a good way. It even make me want a full complete HD remake of SotC instead of the res-up SotC we will get later on.

I just find it funny that you keep trying to say the boss battles are bad to the people who thought they were cool. We won't change our opinion and neither you, so why even bother? :lol

Why were you trying to convince me that it was fun? You fascist.


See, I can use logical fallacies too!
 

-DarKaoZ-

Banned
Fimbulvetr said:
Why were you trying to convince me that it was fun? See, I can use logical fallacies too!

Yes, I can see you can repeat the same question alright. :lol

Well, I still think they are fun and I don't see the big problem of them, so it seems I'm trying to convince that they are good by stating my opinion? Sweet! :D
 

Owzers

Member
Just started it today and am mixed on it. 360 version. Framerate is crap, better than dead rising 2 though but it's unpleasant to play. Graphics are great. Gameplay is iffy, the pause when using the X attack upon hitting the enemy is jarring coupled with the crappy framerate. I also got past a bog section that made me question, yet again, if game developers actually LIKE videogames or do they just put crap into games at random.

Between this game and Alan Wake, i've had my complete fill of " hold button to block, hold button and move the analog stick to dodge" controls. Just ....ugh.

So far this game fits in the " i can't wait to sell this game after i finish it" category.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
Segata Sanshiro said:
Why bother discussing anything? Let's just go get ice cream. And eat it very silently.

So, Baskin-Robbins, or Ben & Jerry's?

Comfy Cow by far. But preferred ice cream places are subjective too, might as well sit home in silence.
 

jett

D-Member
Finished it. Right now, I have one thought in mind. Where's my goddamn CV4 music Dave Cox, you motherfucking bullshitter you?
 
i'm so pleased that LoS is good ^_^

and about ripping off... well, as any artist knows, there's no such thing as a brand new idea. like oscar wilde said: talent imitates, genius steals.
 

Teknoman

Member
sillymonkey321 said:
Just started it today and am mixed on it. 360 version. Framerate is crap, better than dead rising 2 though but it's unpleasant to play. Graphics are great. Gameplay is iffy, the pause when using the X attack upon hitting the enemy is jarring coupled with the crappy framerate. I also got past a bog section that made me question, yet again, if game developers actually LIKE videogames or do they just put crap into games at random.

Between this game and Alan Wake, i've had my complete fill of " hold button to block, hold button and move the analog stick to dodge" controls. Just ....ugh.

So far this game fits in the " i can't wait to sell this game after i finish it" category.

Chapter 1 is pretty much a tutorial, Chapter 2 is sorta were the real game starts, and it really gets going form Chapter 3 onward.
 

jett

D-Member
My final impressions of this game. Get your tag copypastas ready people, you're gonna need them.

Mediocre in every sense of the word. This is the first and last mercurysteam game I buy. If Konami goes ahead with this new franchise(because it sure as fuck ain't Castlevania), I hope they get a new developer for the next one. There's some BASIC stuff that's plain wrong with the game. Like the camera angles. So many times has the camera fucked me over completely. In GOW I never give it two thoughts, the camera is invisible to me. Even just the way the camera moves around the enviroments as you traverse is unattractive, and a lot of times the angles chosen don't benefit you, the player. FAIL. And don't get me started on why the hell is it always shaking, if they tried to evoke a documentary-type filmmaking feeling they failed miserably.

Not a fan of the platforming mechanics. Precisely, the jumping. BAD. Just awful, back to the drawing board with you. So many times have I fallen to my death through no fault of my own, just because my character hits an invisble wall somewhere in the area, or because I didn't jump in the exact manner the developer decided. Which gets me to...invisible walls. Holy crap I've never seen a game address this worse. Lazy is all I have to say.

The combat system is an exercise in tedium. You have a decent arsenal of moves, but most of the "specials" leave you extremely vulnerable and open to retaliation, making them almost useless. 95% of the combat will result in you whipping 3 to 4 times and then rolling to the side. Over and over. Even if you try to take advantage of all your moves, it's not very fun, or exciting. Overall the combat doesn't flow well at all. It has this super unpolished feel to it. Not to mention that hideous framerate doesn't help at all.

The develoepers have completely mismanaged the pacing in the game. Several parts of the game overstay their welcome, if not the game entirely. Some of the bosses, or a lot of them, have an unnecessary amount of health, it almost feels like an artifical way of increasing the length of the game. It doesn't make the boss harder, just longer, increasingly repetitive and ultimately boring. The titan bosses are the worst. They feel like they go on forever. The last one I didn't have much of a problem with, but it was long as fuck, I just wanted it to be over. Speaking of which, these are horrible "homages", "ripoffs", or whatever you want to call them. Linear and scripted to a retarded point, I didn't enjoy having to repeat the entire freaking process several times in a row just because the game didn't feel like recognizing my button press. Dull, dull, DULL.

A few bosses I liked, and a couple of segments were pretty neat, but overall this was a completely average experience. There are some highs(like the final battle which I'll admit was pretty freaking awesome), but there are some horrible, frustrating lows.

I do not recommend this game, even less so to Castlevania fans. This game is Castlevania in name only. It doesn't look like a CV game, it doesn't sound like a CV, and I have no fucking clue what were they thinking with the story. I don't care for what they did at all. They totally shat all over the series. I understand this is a reboot, and hell I was one of the defenders when reviewers were attacking the game on that basis, but this is a maddening departure, and the epilogue betrays the game's plot and main character anyway. Bad storytelling, and I'm sorry but Jean Luc Picard was plain LULZ in his delivery. The narration was complete cheesefest and the writing may be even worse.

Is there anything I liked? Well the enviroment was ocassionally pretty, although marred again by a truly abysmal framerate and an eye-stabbing aliasing. Jagged edges all up in this bitch. Every time the camera zoomed out the texture detail was reduced to a shimmering mess. Even disregarding the technical deficiencies most of the time the game just looked bland frankly.

The music is nice, I suppose, but so samey-sounding throughout the entire game. Most of the time generic orchestral tunes, especially the action cues, with a few exceptions. Nothing wrong with some variety, Araujo. Also, I was deceived by Dave Cox. :|

You know, I think I may have liked Lament of Innocence better, when it came out. I don't care much for the direction MS took Castlevania, but the worst of it all is the execution. For this type of game I'm gonna stick with what Sony Santa Monica gives me, thanks.
 
-DarKaoZ- said:
Yes, I can see you can repeat the same question alright. :lol

Well, I still think they are fun and I don't see the big problem of them, so it seems I'm trying to convince that they are good by stating my opinion? Sweet! :D

Yet you can't see that copy/pasta-ing my avatar to some strawman you made up is laughable as far as non-arguments go?

Or the hypocricy in you posting your opinions being okay, but me posting mine being some evil scheme to indoctrinate everyone in this thread?



I'm going to post smileys now, as they make me feel superior. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol



Something something, not finished yet. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Yet you can't see that copy/pasta-ing my avatar to some strawman you made up is laughable as far as non-arguments go?

Or the hypocricy in you posting your opinions being okay, but me posting mine being some evil scheme to indoctrinate everyone in this thread?



I'm going to post smileys now, as they make me feel superior. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol



Something something, not finished yet. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

There's a reason you're one of my favorite posters :lol :lol
 

AppleMIX

Member
Go back and play Lament of Innocence.

After playing it again (without nostalgia goggles)there is no way you can say it is a better game.
 

Aeana

Member
jett said:
Mediocre in every sense of the word.
I agree with most of your post, but this is the thing right here. It's got this potential that you want to see it reach, so you keep playing, but it doesn't... Sometimes a mediocre game is worse than a bad one. They always make me wish I had stopped playing sooner.
 
jett said:
You know, I think I may have liked Lament of Innocence better, when it came out.

well, LoI is a very good game. you can knock it for its utter lack of any sort of level design, but it isn't like the portable igavanias had even decent level design themselves. LoI makes up for it with nice whip action that preluded god of war and the best music in the series, right along with SOTN.
 

jett

D-Member
AppleMIX said:
Go back and play Lament of Innocence.

After playing it again (without nostalgia goggles)there is no way you can say it is a better game.

Read more clearly what I said..."at the time". When I played LoI when it came out years ago I'm pretty sure I had a better time than what I had with this game. I don't know how LoI has held up, and I don't think I care to find out. :p

Aeana: agreed.

milkyjay20: yeah I missed Yamane something fierce while playing LoS...
 
AppleMIX said:
Go back and play Lament of Innocence.

After playing it again (without nostalgia goggles)there is no way you can say it is a better game.
Luckily he included the modifying phrase "when it came out", so how it actually fares *now* is of little relevance.
 

Maffis

Member
Just did the trial with the
ogre where you can't be hit by his attacks, and oh boy, what a thrill it was to actually complete it
.

I love the checkpoint system in this game.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Yep, it sucks. They totally messed up the physics too!

..wait this isn't the Sonic 4 thread.

Sorry to hear people who didn't enjoy it. Despite it's obvious problems I had a blast, and I'm as oldschool a CV fan as they come (3 was my first game ever). Playing through it a second time on Paladin and It's amazing how easily I'm wailing through the first few chapters with a solid understanding of the battle mechanics. If they take the criticisms to heart I think the sequel could be absolutely phenomenal.

-DarKaoZ- said:
Yay! Finally unban! :D

-DarKaoZ-
Banned
(Today, 06:35 PM)

what happened here :(
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
jett said:
Of course not, I'm gonna sell it. :p
if it's the PS3 version (or if the 360 version is region free), I'll take it off your hands!
 
I attempted to do some Trial where you had to kill 10 of those demonic toys in row. It really really brought all my little annoyances in the combat front and center, and now I'm just too fucking fed up to continue.

Game is ok. Really close to being good.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when an enemy has a blockable attack and an unblockable attack and they look really similar. Those god damn demonic toys. If he swings his big arm forehand it's blockable, but if he swings the same arm backhand it's suddenly UNblockable. They have very similar frame counts, and the hit frames are damn near the same. You just don't DO that. That's wrong wrong wrong wrong. I hate that.

Also I don't know how many god damn games have done the blocking / rolling on the same button. Every time people complain. Just stop fucking doing it. Seriously. It's not rocket science.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
flarkminator said:
Also I don't know how many god damn games have done the blocking / rolling on the same button. Every time people complain. Just stop fucking doing it. Seriously. It's not rocket science.

Ninja Gaiden did that. Did people complain? I have no idea. Seems to work well enough.

And yeah the toys are assholes. I couldn't figure out why I kept getting hurt trying to somersault over them until I noticed they had a ton of sharp things floating above their heads that are hard to see. :lol
 

Shinjitsu

Banned
flarkminator said:
I attempted to do some Trial where you had to kill 10 of those demonic toys in row. It really really brought all my little annoyances in the combat front and center, and now I'm just too fucking fed up to continue.

Game is ok. Really close to being good.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when an enemy has a blockable attack and an unblockable attack and they look really similar. Those god damn demonic toys. If he swings his big arm forehand it's blockable, but if he swings the same arm backhand it's suddenly UNblockable. They have very similar frame counts, and the hit frames are damn near the same. You just don't DO that. That's wrong wrong wrong wrong. I hate that.

Also I don't know how many god damn games have done the blocking / rolling on the same button. Every time people complain. Just stop fucking doing it. Seriously. It's not rocket science.

Every unblockable flashes, there's a pretty large window on most attacks where you are going to get the deflection on the block, if you see it flash flick the stick.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
I dont know man, I just went and tried the demo for the new Castlevania HD on XBLA and I'll take LoS over it any day.
 
Shinjitsu said:
Every unblockable flashes, there's a pretty large window on most attacks where you are going to get the deflection on the block, if you see it flash flick the stick.

Yes, I am aware. But with this monster specifically. It flashes after his arm has already started moving; however, the crux of the problem I am pointing out is that the animation is very similar (it's almost a direct mirror) to a move that is blockable. You shouldn't even have two blockable moves look that similar in my opinion let alone an unblockable.

I understand how the system works, I'm saying that this enemy in particular is bad.
 

Shinjitsu

Banned
flarkminator said:
Yes, I am aware. But with this monster specifically. It flashes after his arm has already started moving; however, the crux of the problem I am pointing out is that the animation is very similar (it's almost a direct mirror) to a move that is blockable. You shouldn't even have two blockable moves look that similar in my opinion let alone an unblockable.

I understand how the system works, I'm saying that this enemy in particular is bad.

Ahh ok I understand the issue now.:D
 

Solune

Member
nacire said:
I dont know man, I just went and tried the demo for the new Castlevania HD on XBLA and I'll take LoS over it any day.

That's not a traditional Castlevania in the Metroidvania or Actionvania sense though. Harmony of Despair is also a 2D game that utilizes old 2D sprites and doesn't have a budget that comes substantially close to Lords of Shadow. The comparison can't really be made between the 2 games, they are completely different.
 

vesp

Member
9 chapters into the PS3 version and I like it a lot, but do think it's one of the "more fun than good" games. There's really a ton of rookie mistakes that keep the game from being incredible (camera, frame rate, some occasionally weird QTE timing, some standard mobs have way too much health, and a few overly tedious methods of opening doors and such), but I still enjoying it way more than I enjoyed any of the God of Wars and most of the DMCs. I really, really like the world and creature design and find the game beautiful, but I do wish there was a PC version with AA and AF because it could look about twice and good and actually run smoothly.

It's a great first effort and one of the best recent castlevania games by far, I think the sequel could be something really, really special if they manage to smooth out the rough edges.
 
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