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[MoonsaultSlayer]

Thanks, I've thought of that but didn't have any. Guess I'll back track. Is there a magic fountain?

There it is.

 

[RavenFox]

You mean like this
http://i56.tinypic.com/nygy8.png[/IG]
Sadly the screen capture is only available when looking at concept art, btw this scene in the game looks amazing.[/QUOTE]
Well that sucks

 

[green_focus]

Fix the camera and add a map system in-level.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Just finished Chapter 3. My god, that fight with Cornell was awesome. I wish combat in this game was always that satisfying.

 

[YianGaruga]

Just finished Chapter 3. My god, that fight with Cornell was awesome. I wish combat in this game was always that satisfying.

The combat gets better the further you are in the game. The first few chapters are really boring, combat-wise.

 

[thetrin]

Just finished Chapter 3. My god, that fight with Cornell was awesome. I wish combat in this game was always that satisfying.

It gets more satisfying, but Cornell is the hardest boss in the game.

 

[∀ Narayan]

It gets more satisfying, but Cornell is the hardest boss in the game.

Whaaaat?! I thought he was pretty easy.

 

[infinityBCRT]

It gets more satisfying, but Cornell is the hardest boss in the game.

I'd say the

Spoiler

Black Knight

was harder than Cornell just because its nearly impossible to beat him without figuring out that you need to use a specific attack strategy

Spoiler

hold X to hit him when hes summoning puddles so that you get him and kill the puddle

. With Cornell there is a specific strategy that makes the fight much easier

Spoiler

synchronize block him early in the fight and counter, absorb light magic, heal to full health, and repeat once your health is below 50%

, but even without it you can still beat him by just avoiding his attacks.

 

[brandonh83]

Whaaaat?! I thought he was pretty easy.

Going through on Knight the first time, I had way more problems with him than any other boss. He even made the last boss feel like cake in comparison.

Actually the last boss is cake in any circumstance.

 

[TheKaeptain]

The last boss is a punk.

 

[jett]

Cornell and the

Spoiler

Black Knight

are my two favorite moments of the game, by far. They're challenging on Knight, but not cheap, and the fights have a really awesome beat and rhythm to them.

Except Cornell's second form of course.

 

[brandonh83]

The last boss is a punk.

A very easy punk. Even on Paladin. Especially when you have the best shadow and light based attacks, it's borderline cheating.

 

[EternalGamer]

YES
unless you mean DMC3, but still I say Castlevania's combat is more deep & diverse.

it's good, but............I've always saw NG as a stepping stone game while I wait for games like GoW, DMC
just like NG3 will be a stepping stone while I wait for the sequel to this Castlevania
And NG's camera was flawed to fuck.

I agree. I just finished Devil May Cry 4 a few months ago so it is still fresh in my memory. I think the combo meter orb collection and the two subsets of magic moves add a lot more overall strategy. DMC just meant combos ending in launchers followed by constant grapple air juggles. Repeat ad nauseum.

Here, with the heal and argo spells, I feel like I am constantly trying to maximize my orb collection and strategically think about how to harvest them and what mode to activate at what time.

Similarly, the combat here may not be as precise and as "fair" as Ninja Gaiden, but I find it more fun.

 

[jett]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

Now I want to play DMC4. LOVE THAT GAME.

 

[jett]

Now I want to play DMC4. LOVE THAT GAME.

60fps ftw.

 

[boutrosinit]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

I understand the hate for DMC4, but damn did I enjoy it. Loved that grapple arm mechanic. Fuck the story. LOVED the combat mechanics.

 

[MarshMellow96]

My eyes..

And ears..

 

[brandonh83]

Now I want to play DMC4. LOVE THAT GAME.

Whoa, there's someone else?

*fistbump*

 

[EternalGamer]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

I don't know why you think a sped up video with strobe lights and speed metal proves DMC 4 is deeper, but it doesn't. I certainly know how to play the game. I could get SSS combos fairly frequently. DMC is juggle crazy, that doesn't necessarily mean it is deeper, just different.

I could basically play DMC 4 on autopilot by the end. Here I feel like I am constanly looking for counter opportunities, managing my orb resources (the harvesting of which also involves a risk/reward) AND trying to keep combos going.

I really like DMC4, but so far, I find this combat more interesting. I can't just go crazy and spend entire fights in the air juggling enemies. I have to do more real crowd control and carefully wait for counter opportunities. It requires real concentration and timing whereas DMC required me to just dial in button combos usually oblivious to what the enemies were doing (with a few exceptions).

 

[forrest]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

Looks pretty deep, but it doesn't mean Mercurysteam doesn't have a clue.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Whoa, there's someone else?

*fistbump*

Never really understood the hate it got. Did the PS3 version ever get a Trophy update?

 

[TGO]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

Hell no, we're talking DMC1 I can't really judge with 3 & 4, I'd say DMC3/4 gets the nod, it's just plain bullshit the stuff you do in those(wasn't the creator a Street Fighter dev?)
thou I'd like to see Brea let loose on Castlevania: LOS, just to see what can be, done cuz I've pull of some pretty badass stuff, not Brea DMC4 badass, but still.....the depth is there.

 

[jett]

I don't know why you think a sped up video with strobe lights and speed metal proves DMC 4 is deeper, but it doesn't. I certainly know how to play the game. I could get SSS combos fairly frequently. DMC is juggle crazy, that doesn't necessarily mean it is deeper, just different.

I could basically play DMC 4 on autopilot by the end. Here I feel like I am constanly looking for counter opportunities, managing my orb resources (the harvesting of which also involves a risk/reward) AND trying to keep combos going.

I really like DMC4, but so far, I find this combat more interesting. I can't just go crazy and spend entire fights in the air juggling enemies. I have to do more real crowd control and carefully wait for counter opportunities. It requires real concentration and timing whereas DMC required me to just dial in button combos usually oblivious to what the enemies were doing (with a few exceptions).

What the fuck is this bullshit? DMC4 requires HUGE amounts of concentration and timing in higher difficulties. For fuck's sake Nero is built entirely around timing. I'm not gonna bother with the rest of your post. A game that forces you to go on the attack will always be better than than sitting around waiting to counter with the easiest and most forgiving parry in the history of video games.

And that video is not sped up. So much wrong. So much wrong.

 

[forrest]

What the fuck is this bullshit? DMC4 requires HUGE amounts of concentration and timing in higher difficulties. For fuck's sake Nero is built entirely around timing. I'm not gonna bother with the rest of your post. A game that forces you to go on the attack will always be better than than sitting around waiting to counter with the easiest and most forgiving parry in the history of video games.

And that video is not sped up. So much wrong. So much wrong.

You don't have to do this. Just sayin.

 

[jett]

You don't have to do this. Just sayin.

I know you don't, but that's the main reason he states LoS has better combat than DMC4, waiting for the counters.

 

[MarshMellow96]

Or... How about we enjoy both games?

 

[GillianSeed79]

I'm up to the music box level so far. Overall, the game is great, but somewhat flawed. If I had to give it a grade right now it would probably be a B or B+.

The production values are great, but one thing that irks me is that everything has kind of a grainy look. You get used to it, but I actually freaked out that my PS3 was dying or something when I first started it.

The combat is pretty cool, especially the emphasis on countering and dodging. To be honest, I'm more of a button masher. My short term memory is not what it once was so the fighting game list-o-combos is kind of hard to remember.

I'm honestly not a fan of the platforming though. A lot of standard stuff like pressing X to quickly shimmy is missing. Jumps that seem like they should be easy sometimes result in a cheap death because there's some invisible wall right near the edge that makes the jump longer than it actually is. I can never sprint when I really want to. Sometimes there is input lag. In the clock tower level, Gabriel suddenly dashed off a ledge even though I hadn't touched the control stick.

Overall it's been a great ride so far, but I plan on trading it in once I've finished. I just took on a new car payment, so I can't be so frivilious with my money these days and I can't justify keeping a SP game that I will probably never play through again.

 

[jett]

Or... How about we enjoy both games?

Yes, I'm sorry for derrailing. No more of that.

 

[EternalGamer]

What the fuck is this bullshit? DMC4 requires HUGE amounts of concentration and timing in higher difficulties. For fuck's sake Nero is built entirely around timing. I'm not gonna bother with the rest of your post. A game that forces you to go on the attack will always be better than than sitting around waiting to counter with the easiest and most forgiving parry in the history of video games.

And that video is not sped up. So much wrong. So much wrong.

I may not be uber elite and I did not play it on the hardest difficulty, but I did beat DMC 4 and could pull off SSS combos with Nero semi-regularly, so I think I know how to play the game. To say that Nero requires lots of precise timing, at least on lower difficulties, is not correct.

And I am not sure what commandment of God you are relying on to declare that offensive focused games are always superior but it is no religion I subscribe to. I really don't know how you guys define "deeper" but I do not see how, for the average player playing the game on normal difficulty DMC is such a superior experience. Having played both games that way, I find Castlevania demand that I pay alot more attention to what is going on where as in DMC 4, I launch in the air and proceeded to juggle and bounce enemies by spending the next 2 minutes airborne and using air hikes to cycling through the combo rhythms that had became ingrained into my brain from repeating them so often. Most of the enemies were just my combo fodder.

 

[brandonh83]

I'll admit, I'm not nearly as good as some are with action games. I love them to bits and I try to play them on harder difficulties, but it's a no-go. I think one reason I loved this Castlevania so much is that, for me at least, it has a really good battle system but it doesn't require alien reflexes and hardcore combo memorization to be good at it.

I found this game to be more "user friendly" than other action games. It doesn't require religious practices to get good at it. Perhaps that's why some folk look a bit down on the battle system compared to the likes of DMC or Ninja Gaiden, but I welcomed it with open arms :lol

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

DMC4 uses a heavily offensive-tilted combat style. Lords of Shadow is obviously more of a defensive-tilted game, like Ninja Gaiden. Some people have the problem of assuming it is offensive-tilted, because at first glance it looks GoWish, and GoW is offensive-tilted.

The combat is one of the bigger surprises of LoS for me. While I have some issues with it, it's a lot better than I was expecting. I don't think it comes close to touching DMC/NG/Bayonetta, but it doesn't have to, because unlike those games, it doesn't simply focus on combat.

The only real changes they need to make with the combat, imo, is to play around a little with the speed and damage of some attacks, and remove any and all instances of QTEs.

 

[dimb]

I can understand people thinking LoS is "deeper" than the original DMC1, but DMC4? Man, you just don't know how to play that game. Watch this. This is an example of a combat system made by people who have a clue.

Combat system by people who have a clue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnXZeAwBUps

Look at those combos!

 

[Tokubetsu]

DMC4 uses a heavily offensive-tilted combat style. Lords of Shadow is obviously more of a defensive-tilted game, like Ninja Gaiden. Some people have the problem of assuming it is offensive-tilted, because at first glance it looks GoWish, and GoW is offensive-tilted.

The combat is one of the bigger surprises of LoS for me. While I have some issues with it, it's a lot better than I was expecting. I don't think it comes close to touching DMC/NG/Bayonetta, but it doesn't have to, because unlike those games, it doesn't simply focus on combat.

The only real changes they need to make with the combat, imo, is to play around a little with the speed and damage of some attacks, and remove any and all instances of QTEs.

Outside of the QTE complaint, I think they need to make unblockable and blockable moves more obvious and don't give some of the bigger enemies animation start up damage.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The only real changes they need to make with the combat, imo, is to play around a little with the speed and damage of some attacks, and remove any and all instances of QTEs.

I normally try not to say stuff like this, but if there's one thing all action games need to copy from Bayonetta it's the elimination of offscreen enemy attacks.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I normally try not to say stuff like this, but if there's one thing all action games need to copy from Bayonetta it's the elimination of offscreen enemy attacks.

I consider that less a failing of the combat system and more a failing of the camera system, but yes, I agree with that.

 

[∀ Narayan]

I normally try not to say stuff like this, but if there's one thing all action games need to copy from Bayonetta it's the elimination of offscreen enemy attacks.

Yeah. I would also suggest that there's a fairly clear indication on when enemies attack. Plus, one thing I've noticed is that you can receive damage upon the start of an enemies attack animation without them fully going through with the attack. I've died a fair amount of times because of that. It gives off a very sloppy impression.

 

[brandonh83]

Both of those things would definitely be ideal for a sequel (no QTE/off-screen attacks). Also, while I liked the attacks that occur when you hold down the light/heavy attack buttons.. if in the next one you're still using a whip (please god) I think it would be neat to have full control of the whip like in Super CV4. That would be fun, I think, and look really cool.

But if they remove QTE's and any variation of, that would make me even happier.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Yeah. I would also suggest that there's a fairly clear indication on when enemies attack. Plus, one thing I've noticed is that you can receive damage upon the start of an enemies attack animation without them fully going through with the attack. I've died a fair amount of times because of that. It gives off a very sloppy impression.

Yea, as I said earlier, by far my biggest complaint is the start up frame damage of certain enemies attacks. Especially on bigger enemies when its clear you could roll under the attack.

 

[mjc]

Button-mashing QTEs can go but I liked the circle-in-circle mechanic.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I forgot, QTE's for opening gates later on with a certain relic is just stupid.

 

[NeoUltima]

EDIT: oooops wrong thread

 

[brandonh83]

Button-mashing QTEs can go but I liked the circle-in-circle mechanic.

I... liked it in that it wasn't just a random button appearance. I could, however, totally do without anything of the sort. Devs need to figure out how to construct action sequences to where you're not just watching a cinematic and the gameplay during the cinematic consists of a random button press or variation of.

In fact, while I really loved a lot of the action scenes in the game, I would have preferred that some of them be fully controllable-- like the

Spoiler

Carmilla rooftop sequence. It was a very awesome action scene with good direction and incredible music, but I think I would have rather liked to control Gabriel on the castle spires with a bit of platforming maybe during the battle, instead of QTE sequences. Have something like, you have to get over to a ledge quickly, and then have your glowing chain-connect orb appear on Carmilla as she swoops by, press (or hold, whatever it decides to be at the time) R2 to latch onto her, and then jam on her with the action button (like when you jam on the titan weak points).

.

Now, I know I'm no game designer and I may have just proven that, but I do think something along those lines would have been cooler, and no QTE's involved-- nor any gameplay momentum breaking.

 

[EternalGamer]

I totally disagree about the QTEs. I think they add a TON to the epic feel of the game. Way better than just relying on cutscenes. They are basically interactive cutscenes, and some of them are really freaking awesome cutscenes.

It is not like they are overly hard or throwing 20 random button presses in a row. They usually are either just the circle in circle or hit a certain button rapidly. I don't see what there is to complain about. They aren't hard and they add alot to feel of the game. The scarecrow witch fight simply would not have been near as cool if you weren't desperately hitting "a" to drive her down into the concrete after you mounted her.

 

[brandonh83]

QTE's are simple and annoying and don't add anything to the experience at all to me. Honestly I'd rather just watch an awesome cutscene unravel than having to worry about missing a random button press and having to redo the entire sequence all over again.

I don't see at all how it makes anything more "epic" but to each his own.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The scarecrow witch fight simply would not have been near as cool if you weren't desperately hitting "a" to drive her down into the concrete after you mounted her.

The witch fight woulda been cooler if it was actually fun.

 

[TheKaeptain]

QTE's are simple and annoying and don't add anything to the experience at all to me. Honestly I'd rather just watch an awesome cutscene unravel than having to worry about missing a random button press and having to redo the entire sequence all over again.

I don't see at all how it makes anything more "epic" but to each his own.

Feel the same. Lately, they have been too many games relying on QTE.

 

[brandonh83]

Feel the same. Lately, they have been too many games relying on QTE.

The QTE's were far less painful to me in this game compared to others, especially God of War because they were less strict and the window of opportunity felt bigger.

That doesn't stop them from being QTE's, though, and QTE's, they suck.

 

[LiK]

The QTE's were far less painful to me in this game compared to others, especially God of War because they were less strict and the window of opportunity felt bigger.

That doesn't stop them from being QTE's, though, and QTE's, they suck.

I love that most of them didn't require specific buttons and was more about timing. More games should do that.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

QTEs are just the developer admitting they couldn't figure out how to let you do something with actual gameplay, so they play a little movie and you press a button. It's a crutch and frankly this game's combat is good enough that they don't need it. Throwing QTEs into cinemas is just as bad. It's not adding any actual gameplay, it's just forcing you to sit waiting for a possible button prompt instead of enjoying the cutscene. Even in the best implementations, it's wearing very, very thin, and this game isn't anywhere near the best implementation.

This game also commits the cardinal QTE sin:

Spoiler

The last shot of the last boss is a QTE. That is absolutely the most unsatisfying way to end a game, and any designer that thinks that's the way to do things needs a good slap in the face.