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Castlevania: Lords of Shadow |OT| The MercurySteam has Vanquished the Horrible Night

Relix said:
This saddens me and kills the mood. Why oh why =/. I just don't like it.
Actually is has the opposite effect. it doesnt kill the mood since the engine and models dont suddenly change. I actually assumed the were real time until i realized there was no way they could span two dvds without cut scenes.
 
burgerdog said:
I'm not convinced that the cutscenes are pre-rendered. Why wouldn't they use better shadow filtering and AA if they were?
they do look a bit better then the normal action, i cant speak to the technical details...

though the idea that we're debating it says nice things about the engine overall
 

Dynamic3

Member
burgerdog said:
I'm not convinced that the cutscenes are pre-rendered. Why wouldn't they use better shadow filtering and AA if they were?
Maybe I don't know what prerendering is, but I know the cutscenes aren't CG and they look noticeably better than the gameplay sequences, especially in the AA dept.
 

RavenFox

Banned
Relix said:
Oh. Interesting then. Will see what system I pick it up for then. I loathe pre-rendered cutscenes made with in-game engine, it cheapens the games so much. I really hope that isn't the case here =/
I know everyone has there taste but the way some of you get on about stuff that to me really and I mean really doesn't matter is comical. It's not like you're selecting a tie for your wedding.
Rendered cutscenes bother you that are in engine??
brandonh83 said:
Man. Some of you guys seriously make which version to get into a bigger deal than it actually is.

If you only have a PS3, get the PS3 version.
If you only have a 360 version, get the 360 version.
If you have both systems but prefer the DualShock controller, get the PS3 version.
If you have both systems but prefer the 360 controller, get the 360 version.
If you prefer achievements, get the 360 version.
If you prefer trophies, get the PS3 version.
If you have both systems but do not have a preference, the PS3 version is said to have a more stable framerate.
If you like pizza more than hot dogs, order pizza, do not make a hot dog.
lol nuff saaid
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Relix said:
I just like my console to render evertyhing and not use a prefab video :lol

That's dumb when the difference is so small, and secondly, they could be real time and still look slightly better than gameplay. That's historically how things work anyway.

Dynamic3 said:
Maybe I don't know what prerendering is, but I know the cutscenes aren't CG and they look noticeably better than the gameplay sequences, especially in the AA dept.

Cutscenes don't have to be pre-rendered (meaning rendered in the engine but recorded to video to ensure a stable framerate) in order to look better than gameplay. Because all the resources of the console can be devoted to playing a non-interactive sequence, they can make things look better, sometimes substantially better, using real-time rendering of better assets or enhanced rendering of the same assets.
 

owlbeak

Member
RavenFox said:
I know everyone has there taste but the way some of you get on about stuff that to me really and I mean really doesn't matter is comical. It's not like you're selecting a tie for your wedding.
Rendered cutscenes bother you that are in engine??

lol nuff saaid
:lol :lol :lol :lol

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm gonna leave this thread until I have the game so I can stop seeing people bitch about things that insignificant.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
hey_it's_that_dog said:
That's dumb when the difference is so small, and secondly, they could be real time and still look slightly better than gameplay. That's historically how things work anyway.



Cutscenes don't have to be pre-rendered (meaning rendered in the engine but recorded to video to ensure a stable framerate) in order to look better than gameplay. Because all the resources of the console can be devoted to playing a non-interactive sequence, they can make things look better, sometimes substantially better, using real-time rendering of better assets or enhanced rendering of the same assets.

I even made a thread about this some time ago. It bothers me that much :lol :lol

I'll buy the PS3 version. I need more PS3 games and one disc is handy though switching had never bothered me. PS3 usually has better IQ. Off to pre-order then :D

Horsebite said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm gonna leave this thread until I have the game so I can stop seeing people bitch about things that insignificant.

Hey it's my pet-peeve. Not much I can do =P
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
RavenFox said:
I know everyone has there taste but the way some of you get on about stuff that to me really and I mean really doesn't matter is comical. It's not like you're selecting a tie for your wedding.
Rendered cutscenes bother you that are in engine??

lol nuff saaid

He is merely giving in to the essentialist nature that pervades much of human cognition. For the same reason an original painting is more pleasing to us than a copy, his cutscenes must be real-time, not pre-rendered for him to truly enjoy them.

That said, he should get over it because it's a bad reason to feel less enjoyment. :p
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
hey_it's_that_dog said:
He is merely giving in to the essentialist nature that pervades much of human cognition. For the same reason an original painting is more pleasing to us than a copy, his cutscenes must be real-time, not pre-rendered for him to truly enjoy them.

That said, he should get over it because it's a bad reason to feel less enjoyment. :p

I know, it makes no sense but it bothers me to death :lol Didn't mean to shit the thread =P
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Relix said:
I know, it makes no sense but it bothers me to death :lol Didn't mean to shit the thread =P

As long as you recognize that it's your own personal peculiarity and don't insist others should feel the same way, I have no problem with it. We all have our compulsions.
 

Dynamic3

Member
hey_it's_that_dog said:
He is merely giving in to the essentialist nature that pervades much of human cognition. For the same reason an original painting is more pleasing to us than a copy, his cutscenes must be real-time, not pre-rendered for him to truly enjoy them.

That said, he should get over it because it's a bad reason to feel less enjoyment. :p
What's the difference between prerendered and real time? All I know is that they aren't CG. I may have mispoke.
 

Pooya

Member
Dynamic3 said:
What's the difference between prerendered and real time? All I know is that they aren't CG. I may have mispoke.
prerendered means using game assets or better quality ones, the scenes is rendered on a more powerful system and then is encoded to a video file which the console later just plays.

real-time means that console is rendering that scene.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
burgerdog said:
I'm not convinced that the cutscenes are pre-rendered. Why wouldn't they use better shadow filtering and AA if they were?
Should be easy to tell either way, if you just get a bit closer to the TV and look for compression macroblocking. Dangit, I wish I could play the demo right now.
 

Dynamic3

Member
miladesn said:
prerendered means using game assets or better quality ones, the scenes is rendered on a more powerful system and then is encoded to a video file which the console later just plays.

real-time means that console is rendering that scene.
Can real time scenes use additional AA and/or enhanced textures?
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Jtyettis said:
Well I did love Bayonetta, but man there are so many good to great games coming this month. The demo was great.

Why does everyone think Mikami had anything to do with Bayonetta?
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Dynamic3 said:
Can real time scenes use additional AA and/or enhanced textures?

I believe they can. I know for sure that they routinely look better than gameplay, for a number of possible reasons.

To answer your other question about the difference between real-time and prerendered:

Take for example the cutscenes in MGS2 or MGS3. You could actually manipulate the camera, proving they were being rendered in real time. But they were rendered in slightly better quality than the gameplay graphics. Team Ico games also give you camera control during cutscenes, proving that they are real-time, but I don't think they use any enhanced rendering.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jack Random said:
they do look a bit better then the normal action, i cant speak to the technical details...

though the idea that we're debating it says nice things about the engine overall
Based on the demo, it's mixed. Most of the scenes in the demo were realtime while two of them were videos. I could definitely see the (subtle) difference.
 

Pooya

Member
Dynamic3 said:
Can real time scenes use additional AA and/or enhanced textures?
yes, see FFXIII for example, the game uses higher poly character models for cutscenes (the game also has many prerendered cutscenes, it's mixed).
or Resident Evil 5.

IGN said that a cutscene runs at a very low fps on 360 so it can't be a video or not all of the cut-scenes are videos. For example if there is a flashback or a scene that takes place in a completely different area and developer wants to show the cutscenes without a load screen then using FMV is the solution.
 

Dynamic3

Member
hey_it's_that_dog said:
I believe they can. I know for sure that they routinely look better than gameplay, for a number of possible reasons.

To answer your other question about the difference between real-time and prerendered:

Take for example the cutscenes in MGS2 or MGS3. You could actually manipulate the camera, proving they were being rendered in real time. But they were rendered in slightly better quality than the gameplay graphics. Team Ico games also give you camera control during cutscenes, proving that they are real-time, but I don't think they use any enhanced rendering.
Well what, if any, is the difference to us, the end user aside from the potential for camera movement (which isn't in LoS)? I thought the original concern was in-game as opposed to CG.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
miladesn said:
yes, see FFXIII for example, the game uses higher poly character models for cutscenes (the game also has many prerendered cutscenes, it's mixed).
or Resident Evil 5.

IGN said that a cutscene runs at a very low fps on 360 so it can't be a video or not all of the cut-scenes are videos. For example if there is a flashback or a scene that takes place in a completely different area and developer wants to show the cutscenes without a load screen then using FMV is the solution.
They can also do like Kojima does and create some smallish area that represent other locations. This is how MGS2 was handled. If you tried The Document of MGS2, you could see this when flying the camera around the cutscene areas. Big empty spaces with small rooms or locales scattered about.
 

burgerdog

Member
So after six hours of playing I still can't figure out how to save and quit. I just wait for the orange circle to pop up during a stage, or after beating a stage I turn off the console. If there is a way to save/quit to the main menu I haven't found out how.

Checked the manual and it's a piece of shit black and white, 4 page thing.
 

FrankT

Member
Jack Random said:
because they hear "Platinum" and assume Mikami is Kamiya

Yea not sure how I totally made that connection, but I did heh.

brandonh83 said:
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow Facebook Challenge :lol

Play to unlock awards/content. No idea what though.

edit: just screens and videos, le meh

Le meh indeed. Oh yea, hate facebook. Just needed to say that.

burgerdog said:
Checked the manual and it's a piece of shit black and white, 4 page thing.

Not surprising.
 
burgerdog said:
So after six hours of playing I still can't figure out how to save and quit. I just wait for the orange circle to pop up during a stage, or after beating a stage I turn off the console. If there is a way to save/quit to the main menu I haven't found out how.


140.96
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
burgerdog said:
So after six hours of playing I still can't figure out how to save and quit. I just wait for the orange circle to pop up during a stage, or after beating a stage I turn off the console. If there is a way to save/quit to the main menu I haven't found out how.

Checked the manual and it's a piece of shit black and white, 4 page thing.

God dammit, shitty manuals piss me off so much.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Dynamic3 said:
Well what, if any, is the difference to us, the end user aside from the potential for camera movement (which isn't in LoS)? I thought the original concern was in-game as opposed to CG.

One potential difference is that a pre-rendered scene requires more data, like a movie file, and is subject to compression artifacts if they choose/need to compress it. So overall image quality is often better in a real-time cutscene compared to a prerendered one, all else equal. Of course, it's possible to add a lot of fancy shit to your pre-rendered video cutscene, which could outweigh the degradation caused by compression and result in a better overall visual impression.

I can really only speculate, but I'd guess that choosing video vs. real-time has implications for how you load the cutscenes, and what you can load during the cutscenes. So load times could be involved, but again, I could be way off on this point.

The only other reason to care that I can think of is that you want to feel impressed by how powerful the hardware is, and the better the real-time cutscene, the more awesome the game seems. This is what Relix was saying, and I can understand that position but don't care at all about the distinction myself.

I care much more about being able to skip cutscenes instantly.

As for the original concern being realtime vs CG, sorry, I don't even remember how this conversation started. :lol
 

jett

D-Member
Personally, I think this is a dumb complaint. Many games today do the same, mixing real-time cut-scenes with FMV. Some don't mix shit, like the Uncharteds. Others do mix, like GOW3, saving FMV for the more crazy scenes. With blu-ray there's no huge loss in video quality, sometimes almost none(like in GOW3). People shouldn't be surprised, really. I guess 360-only owners have something to worry about, though. :p

RavenFox said:
Joke post?

Where's the joke? I could barely see the difference between real-time cut-scenes and FMV in the demo. Actually I still don't see the difference. Game has excellent video quality.
 

Pooya

Member
Dynamic3 said:
Well what, if any, is the difference to us, the end user aside from the potential for camera movement (which isn't in LoS)? I thought the original concern was in-game as opposed to CG.
for example if a game features different outfits or equipment for the characters (I don't know LoS has any of these, or may be it has judging by that one video, the ey... :p) then the changes can be seen in cutscenes, again see Resident Evil 5 and 4. In RE4 PS2 cutscenes were encoded to video files (GC & Wii version are realtime).
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
jett said:
Personally, I think this is a dumb complaint. Many games today do the same, mixing real-time cut-scenes with FMV. Some don't mix shit, like the Uncharteds. Others do mix, like GOW3, saving FMV for the more crazy scenes. With blu-ray there's no huge loss in video quality, sometimes almost none(like in GOW3). People shouldn't be surprised, really. I guess 360-only owners have something to worry about, though. :p



Where's the joke? I could barely see the difference between real-time cut-scenes and FMV in the demo. Actually I still don't see the difference. Game has excellent video quality.

I don't wanna shit this thread even more but... GOW3 has some shitty encoding. I don't know in what set you play but on a 42inch 1080p the artifact is evident. Uncharted really looks obvious. Now, play FF13 on 360 and you are better off watching YT 1080p videos of the cutscenes. Really, the quality is abysmal :lol

I can easily notice that. Same as people who barely notices frame rate drops, tearig, etc. I just like my IQ high. Actually the reason I am going with the PS3 version is because I know the encoding should be vastly superior to the 360 edition.
 

jett

D-Member
U2's video artifacts are evident if you're really looking for them but GOW3 has the best video quality I've seen this gen yet.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
jett said:
U2's video artifacts are evident if you're really looking for them but GOW3 has the best video quality I've seen this gen yet.

You can notice the contrast gets sightly darker and video frame rate drops. Macro Blocking is evident in many scenes, for example in the Poseidon scene when there's a lot of particles you can see the blocking, or Cronos's one. Just a pet-peeve of mine noticing these things, can't avoid it :lol
 

RavenFox

Banned
jett said:
Personally, I think this is a dumb complaint. Many games today do the same, mixing real-time cut-scenes with FMV. Some don't mix shit, like the Uncharteds. Others do mix, like GOW3, saving FMV for the more crazy scenes. With blu-ray there's no huge loss in video quality, sometimes almost none(like in GOW3). People shouldn't be surprised, really. I guess 360-only owners have something to worry about, though. :p



Where's the joke? I could barely see the difference between real-time cut-scenes and FMV in the demo. Actually I still don't see the difference. Game has excellent video quality.
That's what I meant.
burgerdog said:
Ooh, an alternate outfit or snake eye will clearly show what's pre-rendered and what's not. Forgot all about that. Good call.
He wears the patch in the cutscene.
 
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