geary
Member
That means that in 5 years, Returnal 2 can be made by another developer exclusive for PS.
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CEO of HOUSEMARQUE: we are truly thankful to our publishing partner Sony, who has given us an opportunity to work on something very risky.
killatopak
Gold Member
Yep. Like Gears from Epic to Coalition or Bungie to 343 with Halo.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Oh so Returnal is a developer now?
Haggard
Banned
Yep. Can be an in house-product or another contract work with a 3rd party at that point.
I´m done with you troll playing dumb.. Ignored.
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JimmyRustler
Member
Just something to think about... How long since Jimbo took over, how long since the Returnal deal got approved?Bubububut Jason Schreier said Sony doesn't like risks!!!! He has insider sources damnit!!
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Yes, but 'Apple software' or not, it is developed by a third party developer.
It doesn't matter who owns the IP... And again, you just assume that you know the intricasies of the deal between Housemarque and Sony. Its not like these exclusivity deals are the same in every instance.
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Werewolfgrandma
Banned
It's pretty sad that you can show a publisher something that looks fun and a bit different(let's be honest it's in no way groundbreaking) it's considered risky. Returnal looks super fun. Hope it does well.
killatopak
Gold Member
Well, I haven’t seen a AAA rogue-like before so it may count as risky simply for that.
Also, every new IP with AAA budget is risky especially for devs that haven’t even made a single AAA game.
nerdface
Banned
WowBo_Hazem how many returnal threads have you made now? Cant wait to see your same enthusiasm when goty halo infinite releases
You won’t see half this many threads about the actual gameplay. Just LLC troopers jerking it to their favorite REBRANDING of the same transistors.
You have to see it to believe it.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Reading the op it doesn't seem like this has a real AAA budget
Technically this is correct, but no one ever uses the phrase 'first party software' when alluding to IP ownership rights.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Sony owns the copyright and trademark for returnal
That makes Returnal a first party IP. I'm not assuming anything here.
That's litterally just the argument
Same with Apple. Not sure what point you're trying to make
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Here's another for you
Returnal is made by Housemarque
Returnal 2 is made by Naughty Dog
Is the franchise first party or third party
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Reality Czar
Banned
Name dropping Treasure. Nice!
Can't wait to play this game. I pre ordered last week on Amazon and for some reason it says I won't get it until May 18th. Taking that as a good sign that sales are healthy...
Can't wait to play this game. I pre ordered last week on Amazon and for some reason it says I won't get it until May 18th. Taking that as a good sign that sales are healthy...
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Is Returnal a first party game or a third party game?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Oh lord please stop lol
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killatopak
Gold Member
I have no answer to that. I don’t really know how much their budget it without them divulging it.
Maybe you think so because it only has 75 developers? I actually don’t know how many developers it needs to meet the standard AAA game.
Well, Bayonetta 2 is considered first party by Nintendo themselves. As long as it’s licensed and published under their name, that seems to be the case. They don’t own the ip nor the developer here.
Same deal with Spiderman which Marvel owns and is licensed to Sony.
This isn’t the case with other games published by Nintendo in west because they are published in Japan by other companies. Bayonetta, Spiderman and Returnal will be published an licensed worldwide wholly by Nintendo and Sony.
My point is that you are stretching the term(s) first/third party to mean something it is not intented to:
"That makes Returnal a first party IP"
- This distinction is just something you make up. First/Third party is meant to distinguish between internal and external relationship of units, of operation, within an organization.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
How am I stretching anything? I'm using it as it's intended in its simplest form
Which is
First party refers to the hardware manufactuer which is Sony
Third party refers to the external developer which is Housemarque
If a piece of software is owned by the first party, that makes it ding ding first party software
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sublimit
Banned
Don't try to spin. Returnal is a game 100% funded by Sony. If what Schreier said had any merit a game like Returnal wouldn't exist now.
Klayzer
Member
Dude. Stop taking the bait. Nothing from them is gonna change what the definition means actually.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
For the people who don't get why this game is risky:
1. It's a gloomy horror-esque game with psychological elements. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea, most people want "fun" games where the games leave them with a good feeling inside.
2. You play as an old woman who looks like a lesbian. Self-explanatory.
3. It's a roguelike. Despite selling millions of copies, it's still a rather niche genre, primarily because they're rather difficult and repetitive. Mostly for PC autists.
4. High production values. This ties in with point 3, roguelikes being niche is the reason why the production values in those games have been fairly low so far. Spending 50m dollars or so on a roguelike is risky af.
1. It's a gloomy horror-esque game with psychological elements. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea, most people want "fun" games where the games leave them with a good feeling inside.
2. You play as an old woman who looks like a lesbian. Self-explanatory.
3. It's a roguelike. Despite selling millions of copies, it's still a rather niche genre, primarily because they're rather difficult and repetitive. Mostly for PC autists.
4. High production values. This ties in with point 3, roguelikes being niche is the reason why the production values in those games have been fairly low so far. Spending 50m dollars or so on a roguelike is risky af.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Yeah I would call returnal second party
Sorry, I only see it referenced as a 'primary Nintendo Product(s)'?I have no answer to that. I don’t really know how much their budget it without them divulging it.
Maybe you think so because it only has 75 developers? I actually don’t know how many developers it needs to meet the standard AAA game.
Well, Bayonetta 2 is considered first party by Nintendo themselves. As long as it’s licensed and published under their name, that seems to be the case. They don’t own the ip nor the developer here.
Same deal with Spiderman which Marvel owns and is licensed to Sony.
This isn’t the case with other games published by Nintendo in west because they are published in Japan by other companies. Bayonetta, Spiderman and Returnal will be published an licensed worldwide wholly by Nintendo and Sony.
That is how you are stretching the term. You keep insisting that it is meant to describe IP copyrights.
Like, can't you at least provide some sort of evidence for your claims? So far, Haggard has provided plenty of sources that refutes your claim.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Another AAA franchise added to the stable I think, this one totally different to the others. Great to see
killatopak
Gold Member
Maybe.
I don’t think that term exist in the industry though. Based on what I found using my google-fu, it seems the term was made by the media in the 90s because they want to define someone like Rare who isn’t owned by Nintendo but only made Nintendo published games.
That’s from an earning’s report. All games here are published by Nintendo.
As you can see, the only non first party games have the asterisk as they have a different publisher inside Japan. For all intents in purposes, those without asterisks are first party games while those without are third party games.
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
what did he say?
fragganaut
Member
I think this is a somewhat emotional statement from the developer, which is rather unusual. I really appreciate it. But I'm not sure whether HM just showing it's honest gratitude or them trying to get closer to Sony hoping to get bought eventually or ... their good bye letter to Sony.
Just a feeling, but Sony seems to not use it's full advertising/marketing power for this game. They have done more for R&C in the last days then for Returnal.
megreotsugua
Banned
I want to make a thread!
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Evidence of what? That Returnal is owned by Sony?
Haggard provided definitions that he didn't even read or understand lmao
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And here "YALL" go. Now all of a sudden nothing is risky in the gaming industry.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Arr0gAnT S0Ny is BAcK
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Linear, third person, over the shoulder, sad Dad (Mom) game where you shoot thousands of underpowered AI enemies and watch cutscenes occasionally.
megreotsugua
Banned
Sony should buy Housemarque if HM is up to it.
This will bring a lot of goodwill riding on the possibly not only a great game but well received game critically. I'm worried that Jim is still waiting for the sales number to open Sony's wallet.
Entroyp
Member
megreotsugua
Banned
All new IPs are risky I would say.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I will dedicate every fiber of my being to destroying your box you homeless cretin
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Housemarque has been one of my very favorite Indie/Small devs since Stardust on up. Dead Nation is when they became much more mainstream to core and casual gamers alike.
In their gameplay I trust!
In their gameplay I trust!
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
You weren't in before the whole "Roguelikes suck ass" though, which they do.
fragganaut
Member
I fully agree, Sony should buy Housemarque and I hope they have secured the option in their contract because otherwise I would fear that HM current success could make them a lucrative target for other Platforms.
yurinka
Member
Bullshit. It's their first AAA so had to grow and work in a different workflow, and it's their more expensive game ever, it's a new IP, it's the first time they make a narrative 3rd person over the soulder camera game with cinematics and so on, and it's mixes for the first time that with bullet hell arcade gameplay, and also mixes that with roguelike features. And on top of that the main character is an old, ugly lady.
To make a game is difficult and risky, and every single one of these things makes it extra risky. So yes, this is a very risky project. Most publishers would never greenlighted it for being too risky.
This isn't a tiny game, it's a AAA game. It's a 6 year long project where robably over 1000 people worked on it. In this kind of games the lead studio staff is 10% or less the total amount of people who worked in the game.
It's PlayStation Studios game, so technically 1st party game. A 1st party company publishes and funds, a 3rd party studio develops. Which is commonly known as 2nd party.
Please tell me one single PS2 game that mixes AAA 3rd person over the soulder camera action game with bullet hell shooting arcade gameplay mixed with roguelike and horror stuff and so on. For me it's something new, I never saw it before.
Well, as usual Bloomberg was spreading lies throwing shit to Sony. This game is one of many facts and examples that Sony also bets on smaller teams, new IPs and risky concepts an different ideas other than sequels of their few best selling AAA blockbusters.
In fact they are the big publisher and platform holder who bets more on a wider range of game types, game sizes and bets more than anyone on new IPs.
A sequel of a successful game is always way less risky than to create a new AAA IP, because there's an existing fanbase there who will buy the game and you know that prety likely unless it's garbage they will like. On top of that, the sequel already has a solid base regarding gameplay, features, story, setting, characters, world building and so on.
It's a huge amount of work you don't need to do on a sequel, and that you know it already works. And when there are some thing in the previous game that didn't work, you as dev know that they are so can address them easily.
In a new IP you are building everything from scratch, so there are way more things that can go wrong.
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Jason Soychreier are you there?
