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Charlottesville racist(s) losing jobs

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B

BinaryPork2737

Unconfirmed Member
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
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The false equivalency expressed in your first post on the matter is that being gay isn't a belief, so it isn't similar to firing a person for being a neo-nazi. Firing someone for being gay is like firing someone for being black: there was no choice on their part for being born who they are. There's a huge difference between the two situations.
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
LegendofLex said:
I generally think it's a bad idea for us to cultivate the expectation that low-level employees (i.e., people who aren't executives or high-profile public figures) should be fired from jobs they already have because they're "exposed" as holding certain undesirable political beliefs.
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I generally think you shouldn't be a fucking Nazi. Death to Jews isn't something a normal person brushes off as just undesirable, guy..the fuck..
 
Y

YuriLowell

Member
ronaldthump said:
Trump has emboldened this. I mean when he got elected some gay guy got based in Santa Monica (I think) and that's just day one. This is now and I don't see things changing unless Trump gets the boot. I can't imagine if America keeps Trump as president in 4 years. That would be insane.
Click to expand...

He will probably be here for 8 years considering the state of the DNC.
 
C

cartographer

Member
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
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You did though. You directly brought up "if you think this would be wrong, then this should be wrong too." Come on. If you're gonna make that sort of false equivalence, at least respect yourself enough to acknowledge doing it.

And it's a false equivalence. Full stop. Discussing this with you further is not a good use of time or energy.
 
T

theWB27

Member
LegendofLex said:
You're arguing about the moral equivalence between the beliefs.

I'm arguing about whether we can control who draws the line about what beliefs are acceptable enough for someone to be employable if we decide it's okay in any circumstance.
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You're not arguing anything really. History tells you what side they're on. You're only aim is to muddle the argument so you can feel good about thinking it's ok for Nazi to be open with their Nazi bs. Just call it what it is.
 
digita1alchemy

digita1alchemy

Member
That's nice but they'll just get hired again by people who are unaware.

LK8KDdE.jpg
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
LegendofLex said:
I generally think it's a bad idea for us to cultivate the expectation that low-level employees (i.e., people who aren't executives or high-profile public figures) should be fired from jobs they already have because they're "exposed" as holding certain undesirable political beliefs.

Like, at least set the bar at them actually being directly involved in the violent/illegal components of the rallies, or taking on a leadership role in a white supremacist group.

There are some parts of the country that are way too red and way too violently anti-liberal for this to be a precedent I'm comfortable setting, especially with how quickly neo Nazis adapt their rhetoric and tactics in response to criticism from the left. We can find consequences for racism that can't be so easily turned around and used by racists against people racists disagree with.
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Depends on the political belief. No, you should not be fired for voting a certain way. Or for holding beliefs that I or the majority of the country disagree with. But there is a line here.

Let's say you are one of those low level employees, serving food or whatever. And you are a white supremacist that literally wants all black people death and join marches that basically stand for that. How can I as an employer trust you to treat my black costumers with respect?
 
E

EnlightenedMint

Member
Probably one of the best ways to fight them along with counter-protests.

The career fascists won't care, but their followers will be too scared to come out.
 
E

Enzom21

Member
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
Click to expand...

Examples?
 
C

commedieu

Banned
LegendofLex said:
You're arguing about the moral equivalence between the beliefs.

I'm arguing about whether we can control who draws the line about what beliefs are acceptable enough for someone to be employable if we decide it's okay in any circumstance.
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We can. Like how Germany deals with nazis.

This isn't a delicate concept. Promoting genocide is a problem. If we had non-white supremacists in office/supported by a white supremacist base, you'd hear condemnation of it.

You can eradicate hate speech and it doesn't devolve into 1984. Like other nations.

The line is genocide.

Need to stop putting lipstick on nazis. They're still pigs.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
LegendofLex said:
I'm not worried about Nazis losing their jobs.

I'm worried about this tactic becoming a new normal that all sides use to punish their opponents.

I remember condemning employers who fired people for being gay, for supporting abortion, etc. If that's not okay, this shouldn't be okay, either.
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Amazing false equivalency, just amazing.
 
F

FullMetaltech

Member
Plumbob said:
Just had a discussion with friends about whether this was legal or not.

California protects employees from being fired for outside of work political activity.

But it cannot protect unlawful assemblies. And even if the protest hadn't been violent, there's leeway to let an employer fire an employee for conflict of interest with the business (AKA the loss of business due to customer backlash from employing a nazi).
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I was wondering about the legality of it as well. I guess it makes sense that way.
 
B

Bladenic

Member
I'm glad the left is starting to use the alt right's methods against them and for good. Doxxing or anything of the sort is bad, but in this case? Get all of them exposed.
 
C

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
Dreams-Visions said:
there's levels to this shit fam. running over people is a helluval level to be sure, but then there's blowing up buildings (churches, homes, urban centers), terrorizing families of color for living in neighborhoods, dragging people to death like they did James Byrd just 20 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

They strung this man to a truck and dragged him for 3 miles until there was nothing left but his torso.

So yea, it can get much, much worse. Hell, it's been a good while since I saw a noose on a tree outside an elementary school. This can get much, much darker.
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I completely understand, and your points are valid. Hence the urine comment - I'd love to douse hooded fuckers with buckets of urine, it would make my day : D
 
Z

Zaphrynn

Member
LegendofLex said:
I like how you've conjured up a false reality where the only people who get to punish people for being irredeemable monsters are people who agree with you about who's an irredeemable monster.
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Believing in the ethnic cleansing of an entire race or races makes you a monster. This isn't some "abortion may or may not be murder" shit. This is legit about murdering an entire race of people. There's no gray area here. It's 100% fucked up and reprehensible. There's no "well if we start firing nazis, people might start firing pro-choice people!". Nazis are about murdering entire races. There is no gray area when it comes to nazis and white supremacists. There should be no sympathy for the nazis that showed up at these rallies. None.
 
N

Nepenthe

Member
If they're fine with their faces being attached to a white supremacist march, they should be fine with the consequences, right?
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
Click to expand...
You do realise how mindblowingly idiotic your post is, right?

People that want to enact genocide HAVE NO PLACE IN SOCIETY. They're nothing more than psychopaths that are not fit to live between normal people.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
The majority states in the US are "At will employment".

No one is required to keep Nazis employed. Fuck these people.
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
Have the "But Free Speech!" idiots who don't understand that corporations are private entities not bound by it arrive yet?

Edit: Yes they have.
 
T

TheOfficeMut

Unconfirmed Member
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
Click to expand...

You're bending over backwards to defend "free speech" of people who would want nothing more than to kill anyone who isn't white, including yourself if you happen to not be white. Why is this a tolerable view where no straight line in the sand is drawn?

The world fought this shit off in the 40s only for us to allow people to spread this ideology again in fucking 2017? ARE YOU INSANE?

Edit: I also saw your other post about having beliefs similar to people who have, in your opinion, been wrongly fired. That seems to be colluding with your current thoughts regarding Nazism now. I am curious as to what these beliefs of yours are that others hold who were fired. Regardless of what they are, they have no bearing on not allowing Nazi bastards to retain employment considering the content of their beliefs and their inherent violent nature.
 
C

C.Mongler

Member
LegendofLex said:
You're arguing about the moral equivalence between the beliefs.

I'm arguing about whether we can control who draws the line about what beliefs are acceptable enough for someone to be employable if we decide it's okay in any circumstance.
Click to expand...

Do you really not see how a moral equivalence answers your "argument"? They are so absurdly on different planes it shouldn't even be a question. The line is pretty hardly drawn at whether or not your "beliefs" rely on eradicating someone/people out of existence.

Guys, Ted in accounting just murdered his wife and child on video, but I'm not sure we should fire him because that could be a slippery slope to homosexuals being fired too.

Hyperbole? Sure, but you're kidding yourself if you think Nazis wouldn't go around attacking whomever they pleased if they knew there were no repercussions. Let's not take away another layer of responsibility for them, shall we?
 
J

James Scott

Banned
LegendofLex said:
I'm not?

I don't like saying "it's okay to fire people if you violently disagree with their beliefs."

I don't like saying it because anti-Nazis aren't the only people who violently disagree with people's beliefs. I don't like saying it because lots of people have been fired for beliefs I agree with, and I already thought that wasn't okay.

I stand by the fact that that's not okay, and I don't make exceptions for the beliefs I disagree with, no matter how abhorrent I think those beliefs are.
Click to expand...
Nazis and white supremacists aren't beliefs that should accepted.
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
BernardoOne said:
You do realise how mindblowingly idiotic your post is, right?

People that want to enact genocide HAVE NO PLACE IN SOCIETY. They're nothing more than psychopaths that are not fit to live between normal people.
Click to expand...

I realize that I used to be on the opposite side of things like the abortion debate, and used to be in favor of people who support abortions being outed and fired.

At some point, I flipped on that issue and realized how horribly stupid and wrongheaded that was.

And since then I've watched the debacle of feminists getting doxxed and harassed by the alt-right and was completely horrified by that, too.

I don't care how awful people's beliefs are. There are admirable ways to combat extremism, and the are shitty ways to do it. I don't like embracing the shitty ways to do it, because the shitty ways are super easy to co-opt and turn against good people. The admirable ways don't work for horrific worldviews because there's nothing admirable about those worldviews that can make them work.

The more we rely on the shitty tactics, the more those shitty tactics come to dominate the entire fucking issue. And to date that's just made a bad problem even worse. It's exasperating.
 
Squirrel Killer

Squirrel Killer

Member
I'm kind of struggling* with this. On one hand, I don't like random people getting fired for speech unless they represent the organization (CEO or other high level executive, a PR rep, pedophile-protecting coach, spokesperson, etc...) I recognize it's not a First Amendment issue, but it's still a free speech issue. There are times in history when my speech (such as for equal civil rights regardless of gender, race, sexual/gender identity, etc...) could have gotten me fired.

On the other hand, fuck these manbabies with a loser fetish.

I definitely echo UnemployedVillain's caution regarding accurately identifying the people involved.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
LegendofLex said:
I realize that I used to be on the opposite side of things like the abortion debate, and used to be in favor of people who support abortions being outed and fired.

At some point, I flipped on that issue and realized how horribly stupid and wrongheaded that was.

And since then I've watched the debacle of feminists getting doxxed and harassed by the alt-right and was completely horrified by that, too.

I don't care how awful people's beliefs are. There are admirable ways to combat extremism, and the are shitty ways to do it. I don't like embracing the shitty ways to do it, because the shitty ways are super easy to co-opt and turn against good people. The admirable ways don't work for horrific worldviews because there's nothing admirable about those worldviews that can make them work.
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I don't get it. So you don't want people to embrace the "shitty ways" to combat this. But in the next sentence you say that the "admirable ways don't work." So what exactly can people do?
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
Good.
However... It would be best if these people realized how fucking stupid they are.

Now he's just going to be an even more bitter racist.
 
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