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[captainnapalm]

I'm saying people have rights, and cops consistently ignore these rights, especially if you're a minority.

Of course they do. And there's really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. It's wrong, it's not fair - but it is what it is.

It's like if you are advised to fully cooperate with someone who tries to rob you at gunpoint - that's not an endorsement of the robber's actions - that's good advice for you so you end up alive and well.

 

[Frog-fu]

Just watched the video.

I am failing to understand why the officer pulled a gun. Why not just call in the tags and pursue? Why pull out the gun, why pull the trigger?

Such a senseless and preventable death. And you know what, right up until the shooting, I was surprised by the fact the officer seemed cordial and professional. Then he went from 0 to 100 in an instant.

Just think how many individuals like that must be wearing the blue? It's a scary thought.

 

[NickFire]

But if you're white it's okay?

Get the fuck out of here. There should be no difference.

You think cops haven't planted evidence on innocent (black) people before? Black people (and other brown-skinned minorities) are suspicious of cops because they're constantly being targeted and fucked over.

The point I'm not making, before someone decides to misconstrue it, is that people should disobey cops. I'm saying people have rights, and cops consistently ignore these rights, especially if you're a minority.

I don't think he was suggesting black and white children should have different rules. I think he was just saying because he perceives a heightened risk of unlawful force to black people when dealing with police, and that he would teach them to keep that risk in mind to avoid being unlawfully killed like the poor soul in this video.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

What? That was not racism.

The guy did start his car and attempt to flee the scene, he did not deserve to be shot, but honestly, he should have complied. He knew the risk he was taking with today's police force.

So this is all his fault? He needs to do as he's told. Be a good boy and maybe you'll be treated like the other humans. What in the world is happening? Why are people justifying this?

I'm out...

 

[TheSpoiler]

Of course they do. And there's really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. It's wrong, it's not fair - but it is what it is.

It's like if you are advised to fully cooperate with someone who tries to rob you at gunpoint - that's not an endorsement of the robber's actions - that's good advice for you so you end up alive and well.

Once again, even complying doesn't always lead to some sort of "I'll live through this" free card.

And there are things you can do about this shit. Part of it is keeping informed.

 

[Squalor]

I wish people would start their posts with this so I can save the time in having to read the rest.

Right? That grammar is horrible. It's "If I were...."

 

[Anton Sugar]

I remember really wanting to stand up for myself, but you just have to take it.

Not sure if you've realized this, but the general air across the United States these past few years is "No, we shouldn't have to take this".

Just like you shouldn't have to act or dress a certain way to not get raped, you shouldn't have to act a certain way to not be murdered by police (assuming you're not committing any life-threatening crimes, of course).

 

[Squalor]

Full, unedited body cam video.

WARNING: Extremely graphic

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW2rSNytAxQ

That's a lot of fucking blood.

 

[old manatee]

So this is all his fault? He needs to do as he's told. Be a good boy and maybe you'll be treated like the other humans. What in the world is happening? Why are people justifying this?

I'm out...

So..just to be clear, GAF wants a vehicle pursuit?

 

[Squalor]

Of course they do. And there's really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. It's wrong, it's not fair - but it is what it is.

It's like if you are advised to fully cooperate with someone who tries to rob you at gunpoint - that's not an endorsement of the robber's actions - that's good advice for you so you end up alive and well.

You don't hold cops to the same standard you would hold a criminal.

Well, at least, you weren't supposed to. These days, yeah, I suppose we should.

I don't think he was suggesting black and white children should have different rules. I think he was just saying because he perceives a heightened risk of unlawful force to black people when dealing with police, and that he would teach them to keep that risk in mind to avoid being unlawfully killed like the poor soul in this video.

Or you comply and get handcuffed and lain on your stomach and live...

Oh, wait, Oscar Grant.

Seems pretty clear the only solution is to not be black.

 

[Ingueferroque]

So this is all his fault? He needs to do as he's told. Be a good boy and maybe you'll be treated like the other humans. What in the world is happening? Why are people justifying this?

I'm out...

Read my post, maybe?
I do agree that there are two narratives here, and the most important one is the one about how cops treat black civilians, and how badly they are trained at responding to situations, resorting to the most extreme reaction. I do not want to contribute in taking the conversation away from that.

It's flat out fucking victim blaming and I'm sick and tired of seeing people get away with it every goddamned time one of these events happen.

I did not victim blame. Read my post. I think I explained myself in a reasonable manner? People are too fucking quick to yell 'Agenda!' 'Racist!' in these threads.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The officer says

Thought he was going to run me over

How does this happen when you are perpendicular to something? Like run over a foot?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

So this is all his fault? He needs to do as he's told. Be a good boy and maybe you'll be treated like the other humans. What in the world is happening? Why are people justifying this?

I'm out...

It's flat out fucking victim blaming and I'm sick and tired of seeing people get away with it every goddamned time one of these events happen.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Of course they do. And there's really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. It's wrong, it's not fair - but it is what it is.

It's like if you are advised to fully cooperate with someone who tries to rob you at gunpoint - that's not an endorsement of the robber's actions - that's good advice for you so you end up alive and well.

I don't have to take shit. This wasn't an armed robber it was a fucking law enforcement officer! Our taxes pay the asshole. Curling up into a ball is ignoring the fact that people are dying when they make mistakes and when they don't. Guys who've not unbuckled their belts, kids with toy guns, adults with toy guns, people out on a date, sleeping kids, the old, young, men, women, trans individuals, people upon people upon people are dying at the hands of cops. Naw, if you believe it's so tolerable then I'll gladly switch places with you and you can live on edge from birth to death.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Read my post, maybe?

You are straight up victim blaming.

"Huurr he should have" doesn't matter. The cop is the one at fault. The cop is the one who didn't do his job. The cop is the one who killed a man in cold blood. The cop made the decision, not the man.

Once again, telling someone to "just deal with it" when the murderer holds the power is skewing the issue.

 

[captainnapalm]

Once again, even complying doesn't always lead to some sort of "I'll live through this" free card.

I know.

It's no guarantee, but it's your best bet.

 

[foodtaster]

What? That was not racism.

The guy did start his car and attempt to flee the scene, he did not deserve to be shot, but honestly, he should have complied. He knew the risk he was taking with today's police force.



I get that, but the 'he should not have attempted to flee in his position' comment has nothing to do with his race. The fact that he was black unfortunately, probably did help him in getting either profiled, stopped, or treated with such extreme caution and force, but that does not mean he is entirely without blame. However I need to stress that in no way did he deserve to get shot, or (in my opinion) did the situation warrant a gun even being present or raised.



I get this.

It doesn't matter if you comply or not.

You're out of touch, but don't worry about it too much, most people are which is why these things persist.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Of course they do. And there's really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. It's wrong, it's not fair - but it is what it is.

It's like if you are advised to fully cooperate with someone who tries to rob you at gunpoint - that's not an endorsement of the robber's actions - that's good advice for you so you end up alive and well.

What happens when history and experience has proven that the robber will kill you even if you cooperate?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

USA gaf : if you are parking and keep in the car and someone call the cops because you look suspicious, does the cop has the right to ask you to get out of the car?

Here in Mexico hardly someone will call the cops if you park infron of a house or any place unless you really RALLY!! look suspicious and event then a cop can not ask you to get out of your car.

If a cop stops you and orders you out of the car, yes, you are required by law to get out. US Supreme Court has upheld this. But no, you don't have to consent to any sort of search of your person or vehicle. And of course, you have a right to remain silent and other than IDing yourself, asserting that right of silence, then saying nothing.

 

[old manatee]

I know.

It's no guarantee, but it's your best bet.

Yeah I don't get why rape victims don't try harder to enjoy it. At the end of the day it's free sex, right?

 

[Squalor]

It doesn't matter if you comply or not.

You're out of touch, but don't worry about it too much, most people are which is why these things persist.

In response to him, I just mentioned that a few posts before.

 

[Skyzard]

Well, maybe he said it was air freshener because he was embarrassed...

Actually, yeah, I kind of think it wasn't airfreshner lol (not that it matters). He did tell him to smell it though.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Actually, I kind think it wasn't air freshner lol (not that it matters). He did tell him to smell it though.

It was not just gin, as that brand is a clear liquor.

 

[foodtaster]

In response to him, I just mentioned that a few posts before.

Hah, great minds and what not. I was actually going to say Eric Garner but decided that Grant was a better example. How sad is it that I have these instances memorized?

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Yeah I don't get why rape victims don't try harder to enjoy it. At the end of the day it's free sex, right?

Yeah because that's what he was saying. Please proceed with the hyperbole, governor!


As for this Officer, pulling the gun and firing was wrong and this guy is without a doubt going down for it. There just has to be a better way to deal with noncompliance than going physical.

 

[zeshakag]

Maybe I interpreted captain napalm' post wrong as he's being called racist, but I don't think his/her acknowledgement of the futility of being black in a police encounter is racist. It's a considerate acknowledgement of such struggle. I thought the phrasing "you have to just take it" was meant more of a "this system is so fucked that that's all that can be done.", not "You should know better". I thought his acknowledgement of the state permitted senseless shooting made it clear that something needs to change goes without saying.

 

[old manatee]

Remember when 9/11 happened and we had to pretend these guys are heroes?

 

[Ingueferroque]

You are straight up victim blaming.

"Huurr he should have" doesn't matter. The cop is the one at fault. The cop is the one who didn't do his job. The cop is the one who killed a man in cold blood. The cop made the decision, not the man.

Once again, telling someone to "just deal with it" when the murderer holds the power is skewing the issue.

I am not victim blaming. Read my posts. What ended up happening is not the fault of the driver. I just wanted to point out that he did attempt to flee. This does not change my opinion on what ultimately ended up happening, and like I explained is not part of the same narrative. The main story here is just another sad example of how terrifyingly bad today's police force is trained. The victim did not deserve what happened to him, and the cop deserves whatever punishment comes his way.

 

[Squalor]

Actually, I kind of think it wasn't airfreshner lol (not that it matters). He did tell him to smell it though.

No matter what the toxicology report says, that cop was wrong.

Aside from the air freshener thing, he didn't seem drunk, just scared. The cop never mentioned any smell of alcohol or suspicion of it aside from the lie that Dubose handed him alcohol when he asked for the license.

I am not victim blaming. But I wanted to point out that he did attempt to flee.

Yeah, he fled after he had a bullet to the brain. He started his car. At no point did he "flee." You don't know what he was going to do, and we never will since he's dead.

 

[Skyzard]

^ I don't disagree about the cop being wrong for gunning him down like that.

Even if he was drunk I'd aim for the tyres if it's still close and then call it in and chase if I can.

It was not just gin, as that brand is a clear liquor.

I mean more like if he was embarrassed about it possibly being piss (as was being suggested earlier), telling the officer to smell it is ballsy.

 

[marrec]

Full, unedited body cam video.

WARNING: Extremely graphic

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW2rSNytAxQ

Man, didn't take him long to start creating a narrative.

"I think I'm okay, he started dragging me, I thought I was going to get run over" he says at about 5:40 which is patently bullshit.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I did not victim blame. Read my post. I think I explained myself in a reasonable manner? People are too fucking quick to yell 'Agenda!' 'Racist!' in these threads.

I didn't call you a racist.

I called you a victim blamer.

"He should have complied" is not a reasonable response when discussing a situation where someone is murdered.

Just because you also throw in a "He shouldn't have been shot" doesn't change that implication, regardless of if it was your intent or otherwise.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Remember when 9/11 happened and we had to pretend these guys are heroes?

That day they were. Not sure what that has to do with events like these.

 

[foodtaster]

I am not victim blaming. But I wanted to point out that he did attempt to flee. This does not change my opinion on what ultimately ended up happening, and like I explained is not part of the same narrative. The main story here is just another sad example of how terrifyingly bad today's police force is trained. The victim did not deserve what happened to him, and the cop deserves whatever punishment comes his way.

At what point exactly did he attempt to flee? Just give me a timestamp and a video.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Who is this GAF character!?

 

[captainnapalm]

Maybe I interpreted captain napalm' post wrong as he's being called racist, but I don't think his/her acknowledgement of the futility of being black in a police encounter is racist. It's a considerate acknowledgement of such struggle. I thought the phrasing "you have to just take it" was meant more of a "this system is so fucked that that's all that can be done.", not "You should know better". I thought his acknowledgement of the state permitted senseless shooting made it clear that something needs to change goes without saying.

This is definitely what I'm saying. The system obviously needs to change at a number of levels and hopefully repeated incidents like this will help that along.

But as things stands now, there's not much you can do if you find yourself in a situation like this.

 

[Ingueferroque]

No matter what the toxicology report says, that cop was wrong.

Aside from the air freshener thing, he didn't seem drunk, just scared. The cop never mentioned any smell of alcohol or suspicion of it aside from the lie that Dubose handed him alcohol when he asked for the license.

Yeah, he fled after he had a bullet to the brain. He started his car. At no point did he "flee." You don't know what he was going to do, and we never will since he's dead.

I will unfortunately have to watch the video again, I could only watch it once. It happened fast, I thought the engine got started before the shot went off.

 

[NickFire]

Or you comply and get handcuffed and lain on your stomach and live...

Oh, wait, Oscar Grant.

Seems pretty clear the only solution is to not be black.

I get what you're saying and wouldn't condemn you for not risking a challenge to an unlawful order. But I don't think its fair to condemn someone who says they would teach their kids to be extra cautious and blindly obey the cops in fear their kids will be profiled and killed if they don't. Recognizing and trying to minimize the risks is not endorsing or approving of them. Its easy to say you would risk your life taking a morally justified stand, but telling your kids to do that is not easy.

 

[darscot]

The way he plants the story about being dragged over and over, it's just so fucked up. How many times do they ask him if he is ok and should go the hospital. The whole thing is such bullshit its hard to believe.

 

[injurai]

Remember when 9/11 happened and we had to pretend these guys are heroes?

Ugh... platitudes, get that out of here.

 

[Squalor]

When things like this come up, it's so easy to tell who is a white guy who has lived a rather mundane, privileged life, has never been hassled by cops, and probably has no real friends who are minorities.

The way he plants the story about being dragged over and over, it's just so fucked up. How many times do they ask him if he is ok and should go the hospital. The whole thing is such bullshit its hard to believe.

He's a cop. He has to be a great liar.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Maybe I interpreted captain napalm' post wrong as he's being called racist, but I don't think his/her acknowledgement of the futility of being black in a police encounter is racist.

No. But the victim blaming is. The part where he implies this happened because black parents tell their black kids to "not take it" is.

 

[marrec]

The way he plants the story about being dragged over and over, it's just so fucked up. How many times do they ask him if he is ok and should go the hospital. The whole thing is such bullshit its hard to believe.

He tried hard but luckily we have video of him murdering Sam.

 

[Ingueferroque]

At what point exactly did he attempt to flee? Just give me a timestamp and a video.

It happens around 1:50 ( https://youtu.be/Z0cdejrSjyc?t=110 ), "go and take your seatbelt off", I hear a vehicle starting, and within seconds he is dead. Ridiculous.

Looking at it a second time, it almost seems like the sound of the engine starting comes from another vehicle in the same area? Which startled the cop?

When things like this come up, it's so easy to tell who is a white guy who has lived a rather mundane, privileged life, has never been hassled by cops, and probably has no real friends who are minorities.

Is this really helpful? Reminding me to never join discussion about anything but games..

 

[TheSpoiler]

Maybe I interpreted captain napalm' post wrong as he's being called racist, but I don't think his/her acknowledgement of the futility of being black in a police encounter is racist. It's a considerate acknowledgement of such struggle. I thought the phrasing "you have to just take it" was meant more of a "this system is so fucked that that's all that can be done.", not "You should know better". I thought his acknowledgement of the state permitted senseless shooting made it clear that something needs to change goes without saying.

It's just a stupid thing to say, weird phrasing or not. The discussion here shouldn't be about 'ways to stay alive by a cop' because that's honestly a misdirection of the real issue at play and also puts guilt on the victim. Also, it's not fun to tell people of an entire race to act a certain way as their people die off senselessly, regardless of the intent.

Nobody wants to hear "hey, change your entire lifestyle so you can live next time you meet a cop" because it's tone deaf.

I am not victim blaming. Read my posts. What ended up happening is not the fault of the driver. I just wanted to point out that he did attempt to flee. This does not change my opinion on what ultimately ended up happening, and like I explained is not part of the same narrative. The main story here is just another sad example of how terrifyingly bad today's police force is trained. The victim did not deserve what happened to him, and the cop deserves whatever punishment comes his way.

Edit: Ah you already posted it on the other page. Regardless of whether he turned on the car or not (or more than likely got spooked because man we should totally give people who get scared of a car turning on a gun), the cop was still far out of bounds.

 

[stufte]

Remember when 9/11 happened and we had to pretend these guys are heroes?

Oh fuck off with that shit. In that moment, those NYPD officers acted heroic as fuck.

 

[Squalor]

It happens around 1:50 ( https://youtu.be/Z0cdejrSjyc?t=110 ), "go and take your seatbelt off", I hear a vehicle starting, and within seconds he is dead. Ridiculous.

Looking at it a second time, it almost seems like the sound of the engine starting comes from another vehicle in the same area? Which startled the cop?

Starting a car isn't fleeing as we've already established.

As cops themselves have already established, the officer had no reason to have his gun drawn.

 

[obijkenobi]

Real talk, the cop deserves life in prison. But, what should the cop that lied about the shooter being dragged by the car get?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Remember when 9/11 happened and we had to pretend these guys are heroes?

Go fuck yourself.

 

[blankempathy]

So it happened exactly like I thought it did. Cop reached in and tried to physically stop him from taking off. So fucking dumb and now a man is dead because you put yourself in a situation where you felt you needed to shoot someone. And to people saying that a polic chase is a worse option. Police chases happen all the damn time. It doesn't always end with people being hurt yet alone dead. Still a better alternative then just opening fire on a fleeing suspect only a foot away.