Yeah I haven't built it yet but I heard someone managed to come up with a beeline strategy for it so I'm not discounting it yet.
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CIVILIZATION VI |OT| He's Got the Whole World in His Hands
- Thread starter SirNinja
- Start date
Yeah I haven't built it yet but I heard someone managed to come up with a beeline strategy for it so I'm not discounting it yet.
If it doesn't run well enough you can play it just fine in strategic view. That's how I play on my cheap laptop. I prefer the "full visual experience" on my desktop but it can be nice to play while relaxing on the couch or in bed. Strategic view has its quirks and its not quite as polished as the main view. For example, when a wonder is built it doesn't show the cinematic so it just pauses the game and theres a border with a little picture and quote in the bottom right corner. It can be a bit jarring but its not often that you build a wonder and if you remember to you can exit strategic view before you click next turn and you'll see the cinematic. Overall it's still very enjoyable and i think it looks fantastic.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I heard that the +1 range buffs on observation balloons stack...
BEST GAME EVER
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
and it requires flat land next to the district which are generally in the vicinity of hills.
Sr Kitsune
Member
how?
Imperfected
Member
The Great Library is straight garbage. The beeline right now is almost certainly for Pyramids for anyone who's figured out the "carbon trade" exploit of chop-and-sell, and honestly probably should be even if you're playing "honest".
The wonders that give extra policy card slots are pretty alright, too. A lot of them are pretty dismal if you aren't going for their specific victory type (religion, culture), though. Keep in mind it's a matter of opportunity cost: is what you're getting from plopping down the Coliseum or Great Zimbabwe or Bolshoi Theatre actually worth what you could have built with that city in the same amount of time? (A Commercial Hub with attached buildings, a half-dozen modern combat units, etc.)
I'm curious if wonder spam will be a better strategy once they fix the rampant exploits happening right now, but my guess is even then it will fall somewhere on the "fun to do versus the AI, terrible to do against players" side of the scale. Most of the wonders still don't really pass the smell test in terms of straight opportunity costs, even before you take into account the chance of getting sniped.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think it's like...alt+left click and hold or something like that.
ChemicalCutthroat
Member
Hold Alt and Left Click to spin the map. It doesn't stick though, but I think a mod is coming for that later.
So I'm on my first game, currently playing on Prince difficulty with 11 other civs. I am Scythia and currently in year 1723 (forgot what turn that is), I have 9 cities (one that I took from a war that someone declared on me) and Kongo is number one on science.
I am on the Industrial era and they're on the atomic era. Unless I'm mistaken that means that they are two generations ahead of me science wise? That's not good... Other than that, I'm number 2 on science. I am afraid of Kongo winning through science or just having an advanced military, I'm also wondering how they were able to be that ahead in science. Everyone else is just getting to the industrial era...
What should I do? Work on my science or declare war on Kongo?
I did notice that there was a coalition formed against the Kongo, so that was interesting seeing the AI go for the strongest foe.
I am on the Industrial era and they're on the atomic era. Unless I'm mistaken that means that they are two generations ahead of me science wise? That's not good... Other than that, I'm number 2 on science. I am afraid of Kongo winning through science or just having an advanced military, I'm also wondering how they were able to be that ahead in science. Everyone else is just getting to the industrial era...
What should I do? Work on my science or declare war on Kongo?
I did notice that there was a coalition formed against the Kongo, so that was interesting seeing the AI go for the strongest foe.
Imperfected
Member
The science victory is actually incredibly slow, so you still have time and could easily race them with a cultural victory if you're doing well in that.
You can also war the AI when behind on science more easily than you might think; the AI manages units very, very poorly and will tend to fight at about 20% (or less) of the listed power of their standing army when compared to a human player. (I have no idea why this is, it seems like they could just transplant the phenomenal asshole Barbarian AI into AI for unit management and get fairly decent results, but even on higher difficulties they're prone to doing a Three Stooges impression or massing nothing but catapults for an invasion.)
You can easily get behind on science if you aren't building Campus Districts, even if you're generally doing well in the game otherwise. However, if you've got a bunch of Industrial and Commercial Districts, you can also punch well above your weight in a war, if Kongo's running "lean" with fewer cities and a high science focus you might be able to overwhelm them with raw numbers on the field, particularly since the AI tends to keep around masses of outdated units rather than modernizing and forming corps/armies at their current tech level.
Basically, being behind on science isn't the end of the world, but you should probably ask why you got behind to begin with. What were you focusing on that wasn't science, and what options does it offer you for winning? To my mind, the options are "production" and "culture"; there's technically a religious victory condition squirreled away in there but I'm pretty sure it's a myth.
I saw the exploits but it's silly to judge something on a broken mechanic that was definitely not behaving as designed so I'm not going to do that. I don't play multiplayer too so I don't have any input on that. Actually I'm also not too sure what exactly do you get if you lose a wonder race.
Judging Great Zimbabwe vs. an outfitted Commercial Hub though is much more simpler, so let's take a look.
Great Zimbabwe: 920 Production, +1 Trade route, +5 Gold, +2 Great Merchant Points (GMP)
Commercial District: 60 Base Production Cost, +1 Trade Route, +2 Gold
Market: 105 Production Cost, +3 Gold, +1 Citizen slot, +1 GMP
Bank: 265 Production Cost, +5 Gold, +1 Citizen slot, +1 GMP
Stock Exchange: 355 Production Cost, +7 Gold, +1 Citizen slot, +1 GMP
That's at least 765 production cost and more depending on the district scaling. 250 production cost for a single district is pretty common in my games so far so I'm going to call the production cost about the same. Unless we make an argument that citizen slots are actually valuable (so far I found them to be anything but), I'll also discount that advantage. There are eureka bonuses for outfitting a commercial district so I'll give it that. But other than that, isn't Great Zimbabwe so amazingly better? The amount of gold you get from Great Zimbabwe can be an order of magnitude larger than the total 17 gold you get from completing a full commercial district. Not to mention you can build Great Zimbabwe a lot earlier than a Stock Exchange. In single player games the chance of losing a wonder race is much lower than in previous Civ games too.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Yeah, hold Alt then left click drag.
It's a bit of a drag you can't lock it though.
Imperfected
Member
You're forgetting that the Commercial Hub is also going to be generating adjacency bonuses (especially important for Germany and Japan, but good in general), can be increased with policies, might also be increased by Great Person retirements, etc. The hub's also going to open other options, such as for building Big Ben or other high-impact wonders later in the game, and having a hub open without having built the improvements on it gives you a place to drop the Great Merchant that cranks out free improvements. The Great Zimbabwe, by comparison, is really just WYSIWYG, and somewhat obnoxious besides if you have to carve your district layout or buy tiles around it to squeeze it in.
And that's despite the fact the Great Zimbabwe isn't even a bad wonder per se, it's pretty midcard. I'd say it's downright attractive compared to the Great Library or the diabolical trap that is the new Petra. It's in that range where there might have legitimate use-case scenarios, at least, rather than being so bad that you should have just spent the production on a bunch of Builders or Traders or something.
I'm not going to convince you further if you can't be convinced by those numbers, and you're going into more extreme examples where there's no other commercial hub in your empire at all (ignoring the fact you need one to begin building the Great Zimbabwe to begin with). So feel free to believe what you want to.
I dunno about aggressiveness but the biggest change from King to Emperor is that the AI gets an extra settler from the first turn.
Oh boy I'm interested to see what your justification for this is.
Imperfected
Member
It's straight garbage. You basically need to create a city purpose-built to use it, and your reward is a city that's about as good as a city you didn't gimp by throwing it into the middle of the desert and spending an obscene amount of early hammers dropping the Petra in.
It's almost never worth it in your cap, since your cap should be a hotbed of Districts, not standard tiles. By the time you get to Petra your cap should already be in a state where it isn't even worth bothering with. Not to mention that the algorithm tends to (politely) not start you in the middle of the desert, since that would gimp you horribly in the early game to begin with.
I've rushed fast expansions near desert to get Pyramids and still seen no real reason to bother building Petra in them. If you try and rush it expecting to get a super city in the offing the way you did in Civ 5, you're going to be in for a bad time. Even if you get the confluence of events that makes the Petra actually attractive, getting desert tiles up to merely "workable" status is incredibly mediocre; Civ 6 really is not about worked tiles in the late game the way Civ 5 was.
That's generally a good rule, actually: if a wonder was super attractive and potentially worth rushing for in Civ 5, it's probably somewhere between awful and average in Civ 6.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
I mean, I know it's not representative of everything, but I just played a game with my friends where it started me on tons of goddamn desert. I rushed Pyramids then Petra as soon as possible and it's seemed to be the only thing that kept me in that game long enough for my religion to insidiously spread across the globe and take them all by surprise.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
There's no direct IP multiplayer option, is there? It would make all of these VPN shenanigans I'm dealing with go away, but the game's so new I can't find any solid answers.
But what's the alternative? Simply not putting a city in your desert area? There's absolutely no opportunity cost to placing a city in this game outside of the cost of the settler which is trivial. Obviously the situation where a Petra is useful is situational but that's kind of the point. You're taking what would be a worthless city spot and making it useful. I do agree that putting Petra in your capital is almost always a bad move just because the timing/circumstances don't typically work.
I disagree with the assertion that petra hills are merely "workable." Petra hills are EXACTLY the type of tile you want to be working in the late game. 5 extra hammers per tile with just enough food to keep from starving, but with some extra gold to boot.
CrocMother
Banned
Could be wrong but I believe each city costs you gold per turn.
CoconutTank
Member
I don't think cities by themselves have any maintenance costs, but the buildings you can build in them do. Settlers do increase in hammer cost over time per settler you deploy (though I believe settlers you capture don't count towards these increments).
Imperfected
Member
The main "cost" in this game is actually scaling Settler/Builder/District costs. The cost of a bad city is basically that it makes your next city more expensive, so it's usually not worth settling bad positions until there are no better ones available. (Unless you need them to feed into a District Adjacency Sprawl, particularly as Germany/Japan, in which case the distance from your projected district clump will probably trump the inherent value of the settlement location.)
They only become a gold sink if you build up a lot of structures with maintenance costs (like Sewers), really. Most cities built should net gold.
CrocMother
Banned
Ok yeah you're right what I was looking at building maintenance costs.
Can anyone confirm that deleting units with upgrades nets you more gold?
I think I deleted a scout with 1 promotion and got like 300-400 gold.
CoconutTank
Member
From what I've read on civfanatics, buying is at a 4 gold per hammer ratio, while selling a unit is 2 gold per hammer ratio.
This unfortunately creates a really hilarious situation with Scythia; there's a policy which allows +100% production for early game cavalry, and they get a free copy of any light cavalry they deploy. With these two effects together, deploying Horsemen and selling both means you can effectively transfer hammers with very little friction between cities.
I didn't know wonder spam was an actual strategy (I even posted here that I found wonder useless) but I arrived at it naturally these past 2 days.
Conclusion, 2 cultural victories at around turn 175 in a row; which is uncommon for me since I restart when anything goes wrong; meaning anything went wrong these games (at prince, which I know isn't that great, but still, game is still new damn it) .
One with Brazil, another with Greece. Pretty straightforward strategy; early settler, early campus on both cities, then wonder spam while using gold to buy builders, traders, defensive units and settlers now and then.
Between wonders, I build districts (gold, then hammers, then culture), but not any buildings; I only go for buildings if there are no wonders and these 4 districts are already built.
At around the industrial age, I am exploding on everything. Way ahead in science, lots of gold pouring in, culture is amazing. When AI declare war, I'm so ahead technologically and with so many city-states as allies, their vast forces just melt to my few units, forcing them into a profitable surrender. Then I just press enter until win.
Seems too easy, even for prince.
Conclusion, 2 cultural victories at around turn 175 in a row; which is uncommon for me since I restart when anything goes wrong; meaning anything went wrong these games (at prince, which I know isn't that great, but still, game is still new damn it) .
One with Brazil, another with Greece. Pretty straightforward strategy; early settler, early campus on both cities, then wonder spam while using gold to buy builders, traders, defensive units and settlers now and then.
Between wonders, I build districts (gold, then hammers, then culture), but not any buildings; I only go for buildings if there are no wonders and these 4 districts are already built.
At around the industrial age, I am exploding on everything. Way ahead in science, lots of gold pouring in, culture is amazing. When AI declare war, I'm so ahead technologically and with so many city-states as allies, their vast forces just melt to my few units, forcing them into a profitable surrender. Then I just press enter until win.
Seems too easy, even for prince.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I'm getting overrun with apostles and missionaries. Spain just keeps sending waves of those fuckers in.
Civ difficulties are notoriously wonky. They only really challenge at Emperor, and once you understand all the aspects of the game, Immortal is very doable since the abandonment of stacks of doom.
Yeah, for sure I should bump the difficulty up before complaining the game is too easy; I'm not trying to do a review or anything, just a personal impression of the learning curve, which was "do 50 turns -> restart/tweak everything -> first 50 turns again -> restart/tweak -> auto-win oh wow -> auto-win again damn"
razgriz417
Member
Just bought this with a buddy. We loved to play vs AI together on civ 5 but I can't seem to find the option for teams in civ 6. Anyone know where that option is?
Seeing the massive spam the ai does of them and the way it just slows turns down, I got very doubtful about the prospect of attempting a Religious Victory.
lukeskymac
Member
Great Library seems to be a better fit for Cultural Victory players this time, IMO. You get dem Writing Slots, and a Science-focused player will likely have researched all essential Ancient+Classic techs by the time they get the civic necessary to build the GL, anyway.
It isn't available ATM. https://m.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/58swzv/psa_how_to_enable_team_multiplayer/
If you can make apostles of your own, then the tip is to make one with the bônus to theological combat and just snipe their apostles. When you theologically defeat a unit, it erases a lot of their religion while increasing yours. I actually converted ghandi's Holy city once just by defending against apostles he would sacrifice to me.
Yep. GL is my biggest tourist trap every time thanks to both being an early game wonder and for having them writing slots.
Well let's try this again
Feels like there is missing a couple difficulties between King and Emperor. Playing King was boring. Nobody seemed to care while I ran away with culture victory. Not even single war was had. Now compare to Emperor. Everyone wants to erase me. Been fighting between Rome, America and Barbarians for 1000 years now. Last place on everything and science victory that I started going for doesn't seem very realistic at the moment.
Feels like there is missing a couple difficulties between King and Emperor. Playing King was boring. Nobody seemed to care while I ran away with culture victory. Not even single war was had. Now compare to Emperor. Everyone wants to erase me. Been fighting between Rome, America and Barbarians for 1000 years now. Last place on everything and science victory that I started going for doesn't seem very realistic at the moment.
I really hate AI cheat in this game. Im about to conquer Arabia, all of a sudden 3 freaking cavalry units next to each other pops up from barbarians and directly attacks my archers ignoring all other civs and units. Just before that they only sent a few slingers and warriors. Same bullshit happened in Civ V too, made me lose at least 15 turns ffs so annoying.
Game is awesome overall though
Turn 261 immortal religious victory! I was actually losing the war against Spain in the end lol. My military was outclassed and late game cities are amazingly tough. My apostles barely made a dent on his apostles which had like 15 more strength. So I made a last ditch effort to simply run all my apostles all around his region spending their remaining charges to spread religion. Thankfully the AI doesn't know how to use inquisitors or I would have lost for sure. I've been sieging Kumasi for like ten turns down south and still couldn't take the city. I would have won five turns earlier if Sumeria didn't lose Islam as the dominant religion for some reason. I'm actually glad I won now because it would have been painful to rebuild a military and have hardly of a military strength advantage compared to Spain. Barely made a dent with my current units without making them into corps or armies as well. Definitely never going to fight a late game war like this again.
Also, an Immortal Victory only gives me rank 16 (score 709)? Top score is 2500, that feels impossible to reach.
Also, an Immortal Victory only gives me rank 16 (score 709)? Top score is 2500, that feels impossible to reach.
lukeskymac
Member
Ever since I saw the first pre-release matches by YouTubers I had thought that the score system was broken and was to be fixed by release. They've kept the same rankings from V but the average score has gone down drastically. Makes no sense to me.
It's because you let a scout reach your city and then go back to the barb camp. Once it does it'll spawn units that will go straight for you.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
oh so it's score based, I thought it was culture
GL is good but not for science hilariously enough. It's good for storing writing which for some odd reason has a hard time getting spaces.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Hm, that's good to know. Sounds functional at least, even with those quirks.
Aztec encampment rush!
Only took Russia one turn to declare war on me after I started building the encampment district beside his city.
Aztec is pretty ridiculous, I'm going to put industrial zones everywhere.
Under citizen management in your city, you can assign citizens to a district to become specialists. They just give +2 yield of the district, i.e. +2 faith for each citizen working there. It's a bit underwhelming compared to Civ5 but if you really need a particular resource you can get it through there.
Only took Russia one turn to declare war on me after I started building the encampment district beside his city.
Aztec is pretty ridiculous, I'm going to put industrial zones everywhere.
Under citizen management in your city, you can assign citizens to a district to become specialists. They just give +2 yield of the district, i.e. +2 faith for each citizen working there. It's a bit underwhelming compared to Civ5 but if you really need a particular resource you can get it through there.
Woow. Thanks for this.
I had a feeling you could do this, but I wasnt sure. Cool!