So a max of five tiles in between the district and city tiles?
Sorry for being dense.
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CIVILIZATION VI |OT| He's Got the Whole World in His Hands
- Thread starter SirNinja
- Start date
Sorry for being dense.
Just had a very satisfying scientific victory as China (Beat the 500 turn limit by a nervewracking 10 turns or so).
So I am now in "just one more turn" mode now mucking around for fun and basically want to nuke everyone. It's being really inconsistent though, sometimes it lets me nuke, other times it doesn't... it gives me the red ranged attack arrow etc but nothing happens... no error message or anything.
I have plenty of nukes FWIW. What's going on? im getting the same issue with nuclear subs, bombers and silos.
So I am now in "just one more turn" mode now mucking around for fun and basically want to nuke everyone. It's being really inconsistent though, sometimes it lets me nuke, other times it doesn't... it gives me the red ranged attack arrow etc but nothing happens... no error message or anything.
I have plenty of nukes FWIW. What's going on? im getting the same issue with nuclear subs, bombers and silos.
Yes.
So I've finished my first proper game of Civ 6. I used the "play now" button so I think the difficulty setting (Prince) is much higher than anything I ever played on before.
I was in the lead for a science victory but last for everything else, but the time limit ran out so I got a score defeat
I was in the lead for a science victory but last for everything else, but the time limit ran out so I got a score defeat
Hari Seldon
Member
So I've finished my first proper game of Civ 6. I used the "play now" button so I think the difficulty setting (Prince) is much higher than anything I ever played on before.
I was in the lead for a science victory but last for everything else, but the time limit ran out so I got a score defeat
In order to win the game you have to go for a victory condition. If you look at the tab in the game it will give you a clue as to how you are doing in each victory condition. Typically around mid-late game you have to choose one and gun for it. There is nothing wrong with playing the game just to screw around though. Whatever is most fun for you.
As a tip, England is fantastic for a cultural victory. Culture victory is one of the trickiest ones to get though.
CrocMother
Banned
Played around with builds this morning, nothing comes close to the German Hansa rush as far as I know.
Really easy to rush apprenticeship, and regardless of civ I'm not sure why you wouldn't. All the techs along the way are super useful (currency, horseback riding, writing) and very easy to boost. As Germany you get an industrial zone that is half off since it's a unique district.
In essence, pretty early in the game, you can plant a new city, drop a trade route in it for +2 food +4 production (early commercial hubs = more trade routes), and build a Hansa first thing in like 8-10 turns (I play on quick speed, but it's insanely fast relative to whatever speed you play).
On top of this, Germany's ability to have an extra district means you can get 4-5 cities with Campus, Commercial Hub, and Hansa very very early and you snowball into a monster. It's really fun but very OP.
If Germany isn't being banned in multiplayer games yet, I'd expect it to be soon.
Really easy to rush apprenticeship, and regardless of civ I'm not sure why you wouldn't. All the techs along the way are super useful (currency, horseback riding, writing) and very easy to boost. As Germany you get an industrial zone that is half off since it's a unique district.
In essence, pretty early in the game, you can plant a new city, drop a trade route in it for +2 food +4 production (early commercial hubs = more trade routes), and build a Hansa first thing in like 8-10 turns (I play on quick speed, but it's insanely fast relative to whatever speed you play).
On top of this, Germany's ability to have an extra district means you can get 4-5 cities with Campus, Commercial Hub, and Hansa very very early and you snowball into a monster. It's really fun but very OP.
If Germany isn't being banned in multiplayer games yet, I'd expect it to be soon.
A Serious Man
Member
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
CrocMother
Banned
In conjunction with the above strategy, it's really fun to pair with a Knight rush.
While doing the above tech strat, civic rush Feudalism, which gives a boost to stirrups (Knight tech). All you need is to build 6 farms to boost. You need an iron mine somewhere in your empire to build Knights.
After that, getting Exploration (and a govt with more card slots) is pretty simple. You'll boost mercenaries from having 8 units, and if you've built the commercial hubs you'll have 4 trade routes to boost medieval faires.
If you hoard gold, build a bunch of heavy chariots, and get the 50% upgrade discount from mercenaries, boom you've got an instant Knight army capable of crushing the AI, who probably has swordsman at best.
While doing the above tech strat, civic rush Feudalism, which gives a boost to stirrups (Knight tech). All you need is to build 6 farms to boost. You need an iron mine somewhere in your empire to build Knights.
After that, getting Exploration (and a govt with more card slots) is pretty simple. You'll boost mercenaries from having 8 units, and if you've built the commercial hubs you'll have 4 trade routes to boost medieval faires.
If you hoard gold, build a bunch of heavy chariots, and get the 50% upgrade discount from mercenaries, boom you've got an instant Knight army capable of crushing the AI, who probably has swordsman at best.
so i bought this over the weekend, still in my first game. Havent played Civ seriously since 2. But i felt home right away.
Great game, but hoplits can fuck off.
Also, holy shit, is that menu music fantastic. Honestly the single best song written for a video game in my opinion. Im listening to it nonstop.
Great game, but hoplits can fuck off.
Also, holy shit, is that menu music fantastic. Honestly the single best song written for a video game in my opinion. Im listening to it nonstop.
pretty done
Member
PSA: this will cause everyone to desync from your multiplayer lobby every few turns
Needs to be patched ASAP because the unit cycling is awful (and we shouldn't need to turn it off this way anyway, OPTIONS PLS)
Finally got my first Deity win, was a culture victory with France.
After countless games lost/restarted early due to the AI being extremely aggressive while somehow being able to start multiple cities before I can even get my second settler out.
I don't think I'm gonna play at that difficulty again, the game is much more fun a few difficulty levels down.
After countless games lost/restarted early due to the AI being extremely aggressive while somehow being able to start multiple cities before I can even get my second settler out.
I don't think I'm gonna play at that difficulty again, the game is much more fun a few difficulty levels down.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
on deity AIs start with 3 settlers and 5 warriors. Yet they are still unable to deal with barbarians.
Well that explains a lot lol.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it's why I don't even bother with settlers at first and just built a ton of military instead.
AntiFacebook
Member
Sorry for the noob question, but what does "+x production towards y" mean?
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Even on Emperor where the AI gets 2 settlers it's probably better to build a military and conquer a city.
On another note, after doing each victory type, I find Culture to be the most fun. Domination you're often too focused with military and war wariness amd everyone hating you that you don't have time for any city building (though it's quite fun pillaging am improvement only for the AI to send a builder to fix it and stealing the builder). Religious victory needs a lot of work and expanding. Science victory is pretty fun but feels isolationist. Culture has the right mix of city building and diplomacy.
On another note, after doing each victory type, I find Culture to be the most fun. Domination you're often too focused with military and war wariness amd everyone hating you that you don't have time for any city building (though it's quite fun pillaging am improvement only for the AI to send a builder to fix it and stealing the builder). Religious victory needs a lot of work and expanding. Science victory is pretty fun but feels isolationist. Culture has the right mix of city building and diplomacy.
Thanks! Knowing this will save me from a lot of headaches.
Anyone who thinks Civ6 AI sucks should watch this game.
https://www.twitch.tv/filthyrobot/v/99442563?t=05h24m07s
The action starts around 5:48. The amount of barb AI trolling and tactical precision is hilarious.
https://www.twitch.tv/filthyrobot/v/99442563?t=05h24m07s
The action starts around 5:48. The amount of barb AI trolling and tactical precision is hilarious.
NiiloPielinen
Member
Argh, game crashes when trying to process next turn, I loaded autosave couple turns back and it still happens. Either on city state or barbarian turn. Tried messing with policies, war declarations, installing new drivers. Nothing helps. No error message, just crash to desktop.
Playing religious game is a bit confusing. Why some city has the religious proportion ring and some don't? Some still stuck in Pantheon and I can't convert them, huh? The most annoying is that it allows me to spread but nothing happen at all.Shouldn't it has action preview ala battle action?
Is there a good tutorial for me to look at?
Is there a good tutorial for me to look at?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If you go to the city overview you can see how many followers a city has, more than half the population need to convert before a city converts.
I was wondering I took over America's religion when I wiped them but what happens if I go for a religious victory with it?
So those who got converted will never change? Can I use Inquisitor on other noations' cities?
I read somewhere that it won't count as your victory (Not showing up in Religion Victory chart), which I'm not certain if legit or not.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
The difficulty spike between King and Emperor is ridiculous. I basically handed the entire world their asses on King on my first attempt. With Emperor, Germany declared war on me with five warriors on turn 35ish. Even if I had done nothing but produce warriors from the beginning I couldn't have gotten five out. The tactics were pretty bad, and if I had a slinger or two more it probably would have gone the other way, but I basically had a warrior and a slinger to fight the war with. Oh, the barbarians were attacking at the same time.
Generally speaking I was hoping that the increased difficulty would actually be more about making the AI smarter rather than just giving them a huge lead in development in early game this time around.
Generally speaking I was hoping that the increased difficulty would actually be more about making the AI smarter rather than just giving them a huge lead in development in early game this time around.
Imperfected
Member
You begin to understand this when you have a barb camp 5 tiles from your capital spawn a Horseman every turn for five turns straight. The only thing that makes it even remotely possible to deal with it is the poor tactical AI of the barbarians, and the tactical AI of the AI players is somehow even worse (presumably because they have to mix more unit types and also give some consideration to not going kamikaze with every single unit).
The barbs just need to be toned down. Specifically, the requirements for Horseman and Horse Archer barbs need to be much higher. That, along with a much-needed general nerf to cavalry units, would probably fix most of the problems.
CrocMother
Banned
You just got unlucky, Emperor is really easy if you make it past the beginning of the game. The AI just falls off a cliff sometime around the Renaissance science wise.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
yeah I had 2 barb camps legit make me sweat because they were pumping out units at a frightening rate all of which horseman and once I built spearmen swordsmen. They were even able to raze a city state next to me. Since then I scan the map rigurously
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Found King too boring so I bumped it up to Emperor. That was still too easy so I bumped it up to Immortal. That was the first difficulty level where things got harder but it was in an unfair way. Some of the civs in the game seem like they are on an even-playing field in terms of progress/development but it's only because they are so stupid in terms of their AI. Neighboring Spain apparently decided to use their extra settlers to found cities in the sparse Tundra and places without fresh water or strategic/luxury resources. And despite having more than enough extra starting units to kill a barbarian camp they let it pillage all their improvements/districts.
Meanwhile neighboring Arabia got to the Modern Era in 1150 before I even hit the Renaissance and wiped out my entire military with their advanced units. But the AI is so stupid that they didn't do anything after that. I literally had no military units and they just kept moving their units around without purpose. They surrounded my cities, then walked away. They brought in a catapult (why didn't they upgrade it?) and then didn't use it. They didn't pillage any of my districts or improvements, and then when a solitary barbarian came nearby they all ran out of my lands.
And to top it all off they offer me a bounty of goods for making peace as if I was the one beating them: 200 gold, 15 gold per turn, 2 luxury resources and 3 artifacts. The hell is going on here? These aren't difficulty levels, this is just an attempt to mask the failures of the AI by giving them ridiculous starting advantages and hoping that makes up for their inability to do anything remotely competent.
Meanwhile neighboring Arabia got to the Modern Era in 1150 before I even hit the Renaissance and wiped out my entire military with their advanced units. But the AI is so stupid that they didn't do anything after that. I literally had no military units and they just kept moving their units around without purpose. They surrounded my cities, then walked away. They brought in a catapult (why didn't they upgrade it?) and then didn't use it. They didn't pillage any of my districts or improvements, and then when a solitary barbarian came nearby they all ran out of my lands.
And to top it all off they offer me a bounty of goods for making peace as if I was the one beating them: 200 gold, 15 gold per turn, 2 luxury resources and 3 artifacts. The hell is going on here? These aren't difficulty levels, this is just an attempt to mask the failures of the AI by giving them ridiculous starting advantages and hoping that makes up for their inability to do anything remotely competent.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Okay got curious and looked up the details of the difficult levels. It's kind of absurd how crazy the AI bonuses get. I thought they just got extra units to start but they get bonuses to combat strength, xp, and huge bonuses to resource gains and production. I realize it must be incredibly difficult if not impossible (in terms of both complexity/resources) to design good AI for a game like this (just look how long it took for computers to reliably beat humans at chess) but the bonuses they get seem to be a pretty scathing indictment of how thin the fundamental challenge the AI can put up is.
It wouldn't bother me as much if multiplayer with real humans was a realistic option for most people.
CrocMother
Banned
Haven't heard anyone talk about fog busting, it's a legit strategy in Civ VI. If you have LOS, a barb camp can't spawn. If you're on a peninsula, camping a few units on hills can eliminate barbs before they appear. If you've got a ton of tundra or desert, make a few scouts to cover it. They don't cost maintenance I believe.
decoyplatypus
Member
What's everyone's wishlist for the first patch? So far I've got the following:
Bug fixes
-Trade nonsense
Quality of life
-Option to turn off unit autoscroll
-More tooltips
-Tile tooltip comes up faster
-City tile expansion indicator
-Better trade route sorting
-Better explanation of culture victory condition (e.g., how is the foreign tourist # generated?)
Design issues
-More mapscripts
-Buff scout movement or vision range
-Reduce diplo penalty for troops near AI's border when the troops are within your own territory
-Vassals
-Reduce unit sell price
Miscellaneous
-Option to rename cities
-Ending map replay
And then I have a few items that don't necessarily belong in the base game but I would love to see explored in a mod:
-Scale warmonger penalties for attacking city-states based on AI's distance, # of envoys, and trade routes with city-state.
-Add a non-religious way to purge religion from your city. I'm thinking a modern-era unit maybe associated with the "ideology" civic. Basically, it would be like a state party member weeding out subversive religious elements. To balance this against the religious victory condition, it may have to carry substantial happiness penalties.
-Cultural pressure. It doesn't have to work by tile like in Civ 4 or by ideology like in Civ 5, but it's more fun when there is some aggressive element to the culture game.
-Replace trader unit with trading post building that allows you to build one permanent route, giving reciprocal bonuses that automatically update with policy cards, etc. Gain additional trade routes with Wonders/commerce buildings.
-Remove religious units from map in favor of a menu-based system closer to Civ 5's espionage: you buy or gain religious units and can assign them to your cities as inquisitors, other cities as missionaries, etc. They accrue points toward their missions over time, but they can be countered by opposing unit types.
The theme of these last two suggestions is that I think a given turn of Civ 6 involves too much boring micro. 1UPT already made moving armies around significantly more time-consuming. I really don't care for moving dozens of missionaries and apostles around too. I understand Firaxis's instinct to try to build on 5's religion framework rather than drop it, but it's not really paying off for me. And it's maddening to have friendly AIs' apostle waves blocking my units. I think they could have a fundamentally similar system for religious competition run entirely through the menus, and it would be a considerably clearer and more pleasant experience.
For trading posts, I admit, it's mainly a matter of hating how often I'm asked to assign or reassign traders. I was fine with passive trade routes in the old days. But I think a good compromise position is to give the player the chance to select trade routes in the first instance (as these can be pretty interesting choices, particularly in Civ 6 when espionage and roads come through trade) but then never ask about that trade route again.
Bug fixes
-Trade nonsense
Quality of life
-Option to turn off unit autoscroll
-More tooltips
-Tile tooltip comes up faster
-City tile expansion indicator
-Better trade route sorting
-Better explanation of culture victory condition (e.g., how is the foreign tourist # generated?)
Design issues
-More mapscripts
-Buff scout movement or vision range
-Reduce diplo penalty for troops near AI's border when the troops are within your own territory
-Vassals
-Reduce unit sell price
Miscellaneous
-Option to rename cities
-Ending map replay
And then I have a few items that don't necessarily belong in the base game but I would love to see explored in a mod:
-Scale warmonger penalties for attacking city-states based on AI's distance, # of envoys, and trade routes with city-state.
-Add a non-religious way to purge religion from your city. I'm thinking a modern-era unit maybe associated with the "ideology" civic. Basically, it would be like a state party member weeding out subversive religious elements. To balance this against the religious victory condition, it may have to carry substantial happiness penalties.
-Cultural pressure. It doesn't have to work by tile like in Civ 4 or by ideology like in Civ 5, but it's more fun when there is some aggressive element to the culture game.
-Replace trader unit with trading post building that allows you to build one permanent route, giving reciprocal bonuses that automatically update with policy cards, etc. Gain additional trade routes with Wonders/commerce buildings.
-Remove religious units from map in favor of a menu-based system closer to Civ 5's espionage: you buy or gain religious units and can assign them to your cities as inquisitors, other cities as missionaries, etc. They accrue points toward their missions over time, but they can be countered by opposing unit types.
The theme of these last two suggestions is that I think a given turn of Civ 6 involves too much boring micro. 1UPT already made moving armies around significantly more time-consuming. I really don't care for moving dozens of missionaries and apostles around too. I understand Firaxis's instinct to try to build on 5's religion framework rather than drop it, but it's not really paying off for me. And it's maddening to have friendly AIs' apostle waves blocking my units. I think they could have a fundamentally similar system for religious competition run entirely through the menus, and it would be a considerably clearer and more pleasant experience.
For trading posts, I admit, it's mainly a matter of hating how often I'm asked to assign or reassign traders. I was fine with passive trade routes in the old days. But I think a good compromise position is to give the player the chance to select trade routes in the first instance (as these can be pretty interesting choices, particularly in Civ 6 when espionage and roads come through trade) but then never ask about that trade route again.
The ultimate Bro
I had a neutral relationship with him but all of my numbers were green and despite rejecting every other civs offer for open borders I figured sure I'll accept his request. He wasn't friends with anyone else and I figured OK he wants to be Bros. And the next thing I know I have a dozen war carts on the steps of my little empire while my army is away. He declares a surprise war and everyone hates him even more than they already did. The next turn Egypt offered a ton of gold for peace and as I was extremely poor I took it and slaughtered these donkeys. Then he came back with a dozen knights and i eventually pushed those back to the ocean where they are just sitting occasionally coming over a few at a time only to be pushed back to the sea where my single galley is pecking away building up useless promotions.
I had a neutral relationship with him but all of my numbers were green and despite rejecting every other civs offer for open borders I figured sure I'll accept his request. He wasn't friends with anyone else and I figured OK he wants to be Bros. And the next thing I know I have a dozen war carts on the steps of my little empire while my army is away. He declares a surprise war and everyone hates him even more than they already did. The next turn Egypt offered a ton of gold for peace and as I was extremely poor I took it and slaughtered these donkeys. Then he came back with a dozen knights and i eventually pushed those back to the ocean where they are just sitting occasionally coming over a few at a time only to be pushed back to the sea where my single galley is pecking away building up useless promotions.
poppedcollar69
Member
3 settlers, 5 warriors and 2 builders?????
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
Any chance we can get some Donald Trump DLC for America? I think that'd be pretty funny. Thinking of some of the benefits, obviously building walls should only take 1 or 2 turns. maybe have a penalty where they don't allow you to have open borders? let's go firaxis! I'm ready to make America great again in CIV!
CrocMother
Banned
It'll be modded in for sure.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
A Serious Man
Member
Turning off cultural victory from here on out because it's just an automatic win if you're ahead entering the late game. I've tried for the science victory three times now and still don't have the achievement because I win via culture even though I never focus on it.
So I was bored and decided to look at strategic resources.
Strategic resources are pretty useless this time round, which I don't like. No buildings or wonders require them, and most units don't need them. Even with no resources you can successfully run a war from the start of the game all the way to the end, it's just easier if you have some. Sure they're rarer now, but it's pointless to go out of your way for that spot of Coal or Oil since they'll be obsolete pretty soon anyway. I mean the most important resource is Horses only cause you can exploit the selling units mechanic right now.
Strategic resources are pretty useless this time round, which I don't like. No buildings or wonders require them, and most units don't need them. Even with no resources you can successfully run a war from the start of the game all the way to the end, it's just easier if you have some. Sure they're rarer now, but it's pointless to go out of your way for that spot of Coal or Oil since they'll be obsolete pretty soon anyway. I mean the most important resource is Horses only cause you can exploit the selling units mechanic right now.
CrocMother
Banned
Emperor, turn 139
My science per turn: 160
Closest AI: 26
My culture per turn: 142
Closest AI: 33.5
That's...not fun.
My science per turn: 160
Closest AI: 26
My culture per turn: 142
Closest AI: 33.5
That's...not fun.
So I played two multiplayer games. The first one someone rushed pretty much all the other players with Egypt archer chariots. I was further away as Brazil and had a fantastic science start. After he was done with the other players I made the mistake of moving on him too soon without realizing how little you can do when outnumbered. I put up a fight for like 15 turns before I was overwhelmed. One crucial mistake I made was that I thought horses were required for knights rather than iron. With my huge science lead I should have built up heavy chariots and beelined to knights instead of sacrificing archers. Even though my capital had a fantastic starting location, I had no horses nearby, and only one copy of iron around my area. But I should have played better.
Second game I was China and wonder spammed a little including Pyramids, Petra, Great Library (which actually was pretty decent with the eurekas), Stonehenge, Oxford University, and Coloseum. I was in a corner and mostly left to my own devices. While most of the players warred between themselves and quit the game leaving around three of us left and another three AIs. Then for some reason I suddenly found myself in a war with all the three AI civs. This is the part where playing multiplayer feels too hectic for me, the other two players were asking me to rush it up when I was waging war against three other civs. I spent all the turn time moving my units and barely had time to consider what I was teching for and what infrastructure I wanted to build. The war weariness also did a number on my cities and the game isn't really fun when all you're doing is ordering a bunch of units as quick as you can.
After like 20+ turns, where I got one of them to make peace and another one halfway dead, one of the other two remaining players declared war on me with units an era ahead on the other side of my civ. I told the guy I couldn't handle 4v1 and was starting to admit defeat and he declared back that I couldn't even win against him 1v1 (can't say I'll ever miss the dumb part of random multiplayer lobbies). Not wanting to deal with it anymore I just left the game.
It's an interesting experience, but definitely much different than single player where you can min-max to your heart's content. It's much more hectic and feels like you should know what you want to do by memory. Fighting against multiple civs is terribly lopsided though. Not only you get less time, you also get much more war weariness and that really needs to be fixed.
Against the current AI yeah, but that's not really the problem of the strategic resources. I think they're fine and a well timed pillage or two can really wreck war efforts.
Second game I was China and wonder spammed a little including Pyramids, Petra, Great Library (which actually was pretty decent with the eurekas), Stonehenge, Oxford University, and Coloseum. I was in a corner and mostly left to my own devices. While most of the players warred between themselves and quit the game leaving around three of us left and another three AIs. Then for some reason I suddenly found myself in a war with all the three AI civs. This is the part where playing multiplayer feels too hectic for me, the other two players were asking me to rush it up when I was waging war against three other civs. I spent all the turn time moving my units and barely had time to consider what I was teching for and what infrastructure I wanted to build. The war weariness also did a number on my cities and the game isn't really fun when all you're doing is ordering a bunch of units as quick as you can.
After like 20+ turns, where I got one of them to make peace and another one halfway dead, one of the other two remaining players declared war on me with units an era ahead on the other side of my civ. I told the guy I couldn't handle 4v1 and was starting to admit defeat and he declared back that I couldn't even win against him 1v1 (can't say I'll ever miss the dumb part of random multiplayer lobbies). Not wanting to deal with it anymore I just left the game.
It's an interesting experience, but definitely much different than single player where you can min-max to your heart's content. It's much more hectic and feels like you should know what you want to do by memory. Fighting against multiple civs is terribly lopsided though. Not only you get less time, you also get much more war weariness and that really needs to be fixed.
Against the current AI yeah, but that's not really the problem of the strategic resources. I think they're fine and a well timed pillage or two can really wreck war efforts.
Imperfected
Member
You just don't have proper appreciation for the power of my coal-fueled Battleships(?!).
The really obnoxious part is the spawning logic for Coal and Oil are shit awful. Not bad, not terrible, just absurdly, horribly dumb. I've had control of entire continents (in 2-continent games!) without a single source of either on them. I think I've gotten the Eureka Plastics maybe twice in ten or more games.
And that's the real kick in the pants: all the Eurekas/Inspirations you get screwed out of if you can't get those resources.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Can you not demand another civ not convert your cities if you don't found a religion? Playing a quick game on a tiny map and getting converted. I wanted to demand they stop conversion to get the casus belli (since they never actually stop).
Under diplomacy click "Discuss" and there should be an option to tell them to not convert your cities. Not that they'll listen. The best way is to kill the missionaries.
There is no way to do this with military units right? Only apostles?
Your opponent suffers the same penalty though. I think resources shaping your technological progression is great - a key reason why each Civ VI game feels different.
If you're at war you can just run them over with your military units. Like it's not even considered a combat move.
That feeling when you are France with three cities and the Aztecs are directly across from you always pissed when you get more than they have. Also they conquered Brazil which is the nearest other civilization to you and have six cities and about eight swordsmen and you have one.
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