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[wetflame]

It's been okay so far, not as immediately gripping as Arena. I'm confident it'll get better though.

I think I'm just more sold on it because I didn't realise it existed until the other day, so I had a couple of issues to read to get me into it. I really liked what the team did with Arena so I'm happy for more, and this definitely does feel like a "second season" where you had the dramatic season finale and this is establishing a new status quo. It's like when

Spoiler

the Oceanic 6 got off the island

in Lost.

 

[Vyer]

I forgot how the ending of Planet Hulk really hits hard. But man....by the end you really want Hulk to tear up those Illuminati fucks.

Spoiler

even if turns out to be somewhat misguided

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

New 52 is a new generation. Things are different. Sorry this upsets you but we're two and a half years into it. Should probably move on and stop caring so much about what DC does. Perhaps the lolgic of Marvel's sliding time scale (which war was Tony involved in? Why the most recent lol) is better suited to your tastes?

There is really no damn point in arguing with you is there? You are again missing the thrust of what I am saying (I'm starting to think maybe on purpose?). I don't give two shits about timelines or anything similar. My issue here is that they're going to be rehashing BETTER STORIES in an INFERIOR WAY. Get it?

You need to get it out of your head that I have an agenda against DC, it's fucking stupid, I am/was a DC fan for 20 years. I care about good stories. I dislike cashgrabs, rehashing and boring stories. Simple as that.

 

[tringworldso]

Batman and ____ cover for July:
http://www.gothamspoilers.com/2014/04/batman-and-julys-counterpart.html

Not sure if this is true and the guy hasn't named his source either but.... :-O

 

[Filthy Slug]

The entire series release schedule consisted of long breaks. For example the final issue took 3 years to come out after the previous one. The series is a bit dense so I didn't implied anything negative by saying it would take 2 readings to absorb all the plot details.

Yeah, I was just saying that your response to that new-to-Planetary reader was a bit misleading. I agree, the schedule got nuts after a certain point, but he's only at the beginning, and release information is kind of irrelevant, as the delay doesn't factor in when you're reading the book nowadays. In the beginning, you're meant to be in the dark about a number of important things, and that's what I was trying to clarify.

But also, a book like this totally benefits from a second reading, because there are a ton of ideas that constantly get built upon from the beginning to the end. So, you're going to gain insight that will open up the entirety of the book the more you dive into it. I'm going to reread it in a little, after it all settles into my brain-piece.

 

[Vyer]

As far as retelling and 'rehashes' go, people tried to shit on Zero Year before it was released using the same kind of excuses. It's definitely hard to top some 'classics', but that sure as hell doesn't automatically mean that anything else is 'bad'.

 

[ElNarez]

Batman and ____ cover for July:
http://www.gothamspoilers.com/2014/04/batman-and-julys-counterpart.html

Not sure if this is true and the guy hasn't named his source either but.... :-O

It's the originally solicited cover for #18. Wouldn't put too much credit on that.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think I'm just more sold on it because I didn't realise it existed until the other day, so I had a couple of issues to read to get me into it. I really liked what the team did with Arena so I'm happy for more, and this definitely does feel like a "second season" where you had the dramatic season finale and this is establishing a new status quo. It's like when

Spoiler

the Oceanic 6 got off the island

in Lost.

That's it exactly. Avengers Arena/Undercover is a top tier network drama. I love it.

 

[monome]

Batman and ____ cover for July:
http://www.gothamspoilers.com/2014/04/batman-and-julys-counterpart.html

Not sure if this is true and the guy hasn't named his source either but.... :-O

DC...lol.

there is gonna be a omegacheap twist to it.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Bigger version of that "Blood Moon" teaser. Someone asked about the Batman with the glow-symbol on their chest; the FCBD issue revealed that it's

Spoiler

old Bruce/Batman who sends Terry/Batman to the present to stop the thing.

Also, that's definitely not Grayson on the upper left; it looks like Tim's costume pre-New52. Also, what appears to be some sort of T-for-Terrific Society.

Batman and ____ cover for July:
http://www.gothamspoilers.com/2014/04/batman-and-julys-counterpart.html

Not sure if this is true and the guy hasn't named his source either but.... :-O

That's the originally solicited cover to Batman & Robin #18, before they revealed they were killing Damian off.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/03/batman-and-robin-18-now-you-see-damian-now-you-dont/

 

[monome]

That's the originally solicited cover to Batman & Robin #18, before they revealed they were killing Damian off.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/03/batman-and-robin-18-now-you-see-damian-now-you-dont/

there is too much Damian stuff these days.

I already feel like he's not "dead".

 

[Tizoc]

Ms. Marvel #2 was really good IMO. Yeah it's slow but I don't mind since I'm more of a character oriented story kinda guy.
Hopefully #3 picks up the pace though. I liked how her brother was willing to go all out to look out for Kamala =)

 

[Machine]

I'm not sure what's more interesting. The fact that people are saying Avengers Arena is good when initial reactions seemed to skew the other way with complaints about it being a rip-off of Battle Royale, or the fuss over the Teen Titans #1 cover.

 

[Owzers]

I protest Secret Origins because...DC had their chance at origins? Twice? Once with the relaunch and once with the #0 month "event" thingy. That wasn't enough for Batman because Bruce's parents have to be murdered over and over again or otherwise you'll just think Bruce is a jerkbag, but not everyone is Snyder.

 

[GrandHarrier]

There is really no damn point in arguing with you is there? You are again missing the thrust of what I am saying (I'm starting to think maybe on purpose?). I don't give two shits about timelines or anything similar. My issue here is that they're going to be rehashing BETTER STORIES in an INFERIOR WAY. Get it?

You need to get it out of your head that I have an agenda against DC, it's fucking stupid, I am/was a DC fan for 20 years. I care about good stories. I dislike cashgrabs, rehashing and boring stories. Simple as that.

Of course there is no point in arguing except for the simple pleasure of it. We've both got fairly firm feelings on the matter and short of some revelation it's not going to change. I completely understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it. You are saying that the origins that exist are so perfectly told that they should never be changed ever. I disagree. I think origins should always be updated, over time, to remain relevant or better fit the current time / continuity (which, while you don't care about, is still important). You also can't know if a story will be good or bad until it's in our hands. You seem to think we can know, with 100% certainty. I disagree.

And iI really wish people would stop calling consumer products cash grabs as if it's a negative thing. Consumer products aren't altruistic. They exist to make money.

 

[Filthy Slug]

Of course there is no point in arguing except for the simple pleasure of it. We've both got fairly firm feelings on the matter and short of some revelation it's not going to change. I completely understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it. You are saying that the origins that exist are so perfectly told that they should never be changed ever. I disagree. I think origins should always be updated, over time, to remain relevant or better fit the current time / continuity (which, while you don't care about, is still important). You also can't know if a story will be good or bad until it's in our hands. You seem to think we can know, with 100% certainty. I disagree.

And iI really wish people would stop calling consumer products cash grabs as if it's a negative thing. Consumer products aren't altruistic. They exist to make money.

This is a really awful way to think and an even more awful way to bolster what you're saying.

Sometimes you just need to get a story out, to express yourself via your skills and talents, and art. Not every book is Batman Eternal. Sometimes you get Casanova.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Maybe they should do Secret Origins for people who don't already have great origin stories. Like, who the fuck are you trying to fool with a 8-page stint about Harley when Mad Love is right there and still perfect

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm not sure what's more interesting. The fact that people are saying Avengers Arena is good when initial reactions seemed to skew the other way with complaints about it being a rip-off of Battle Royale, or the fuss over the Teen Titans #1 cover.

"Initial reactions" were clearly by people who didn't end up reading the book and thus didn't know it was basically a comic book version of the best parts of LOST, with none of the wack four-toed statue mythology elements.

Interesting. Yes.

 

[Rrongfield]

Wasn't it hinted there had been multiple Harleys in that horrible Suicide Squad DotF tie in?

I'm just arguing for the sake of it. Secret Origins might clear some things up and could actually be good. Specially with the right team.
I only wish there were less stories per issue, leaving more pages per origin.

 

[GrandHarrier]

This is a really awful way to think and an even more awful way to bolster what you're saying.

Sometimes you just need to get a story out, to express yourself via your skills and talents, and art. Not every book is Batman Eternal. Sometimes you get Casanova.

It's a truthful way to think. And I'm not trying to bolster anything with it. It's an unrelated thing that just sort of bothers me. Until something hits public domain I have to buy it to read it (or borrow from a library etc). They are trying to make money off of it. There are some exceptions, like those digital only ones that allow you to pay what you want, or web comics that don't charge anything.

 

[tringworldso]

Yeah, I was just saying that your response to that new-to-Planetary reader was a bit misleading. I agree, the schedule got nuts after a certain point, but he's only at the beginning, and release information is kind of irrelevant, as the delay doesn't factor in when you're reading the book nowadays. In the beginning, you're meant to be in the dark about a number of important things, and that's what I was trying to clarify..

You're right. Should have worded my post better! If anything is jarring (to regular comic readers) it's going to be the evolving art style of John Cassady. Planetary was his best work.

That's the originally solicited cover to Batman & Robin #18, before they revealed they were killing Damian off.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/03/batman-and-robin-18-now-you-see-damian-now-you-dont/

It's the originally solicited cover for #18. Wouldn't put too much credit on that.

I just knew it. Whenever the guy posts stuff without a source, it always turns out to be false.

 

[Messi]

Wasn't it hinted there had been multiple Harleys in that horrible Suicide Squad DotF tie in?

I'm just arguing for the sake of it. Secret Origins might clear some things up and could actually be good. Specially with the right team.
I only wish there were less stories per issue, leaving more pages per origin.

Hinted at? He showed harley the bodies of the dead Harley's when he chained her up.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Maybe they should do Secret Origins for people who don't already have great origin stories. Like, who the fuck are you trying to fool with a 8-page stint about Harley when Mad Love is right there and still perfect

Mad Love doesn't have bleached-skin-and-red-and-purple-haired Harley Quinn though, and DC doesn't want to confuse new readers by having them explore the irrelevant past for answers to questions they'll give once they've reinterpreted them for this bold new era we live in.

...

Actually, now that I think about it, DC should just go ahead and have some intern draw over and recolor the artwork for future printings of Mad Love, to make Harley look like the rockabilly juggalo queen we all know she is.

 

[Rrongfield]

Hinted at? He showed harley the bodies of the dead Harley's when he chained her up.

...damn. That just makes it even worse...

I think I repressed that for obvious reasons.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

aren't those like the fake Harleys from Joker's Millions

"Whatever you say, Mr.G! *terrible laugh*"

 

[tim1138]

Maybe they should do Secret Origins for people who don't already have great origin stories. Like, who the fuck are you trying to fool with a 8-page stint about Harley when Mad Love is right there and still perfect

Beat me to it. That book should have been used as a focus on mid and low tier characters who don't have solo books or feature in team books, not retelling the origins of freaking Superman or all of the Batfamily.

 

[Messi]

Mad Love doesn't have bleached-skin-and-red-and-purple-haired Harley Quinn though, and DC doesn't want to confuse new readers by having them explore the irrelevant past for answers to questions they'll give once they've reinterpreted them for this bold new era we live in.

...

Actually, now that I think about it, DC should just have some intern draw over and recolor the artwork for future printings of Mad Love, to make Harley look like the rockabilly juggalo queen we all know she is.

 

[tringworldso]

You are again missing the thrust of what I am saying (I'm starting to think maybe on purpose?)

Of course there is no point in arguing except for the simple pleasure of it.

Dat sexual tension between GrandHarrier and Jedeye Sniv.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Of course there is no point in arguing except for the simple pleasure of it. We've both got fairly firm feelings on the matter and short of some revelation it's not going to change. I completely understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it. You are saying that the origins that exist are so perfectly told that they should never be changed ever. I disagree. I think origins should always be updated, over time, to remain relevant or better fit the current time / continuity (which, while you don't care about, is still important). You also can't know if a story will be good or bad until it's in our hands. You seem to think we can know, with 100% certainty. I disagree.

And iI really wish people would stop calling consumer products cash grabs as if it's a negative thing. Consumer products aren't altruistic. They exist to make money.

Two points:
Comics are not just a consumer product, they are also (commercial) art. I think we should hope comics approach the level of art more often than sheer commerciality. Because I don't think anyone finishes a comic and says to themselves "wow that was really commercial" as a plus. Unless they have no soul/taste.

Second, this book is out tomorrow right? We'll see which one of us is right then I guess!

Actually no I'll keep going - we can expect these stories to be lesser rehashes of earlier greater works for a number of reasons. Firstly, no matter what they change they will be derivative works, inspired by or playing off the earlier, more successful stories (Mad Love and GMo Bats approaching and surpassing that important 'art' threshold).

We can also expect the stories to be lesser based on the track records of the people involved. Connor is ok, Tomasi is still gobbling up Morrison's scraps, Lemire might have a good take on GA but I doubt there'll be any new wrinkles to the island story other than maybe adding some layers of his own current run into the backstory.

Given page counts, collaborators and the odds of any given story being good to begin with, I don't see how it can be anything other than disposable rehashing. Again, NOT an attack on DC (beyond cynical/intellectually moribund editorial direction), but a conclusion drawn from 20 years of reading comics.

If this book wins an Eisner I will give you 1 million of whatever currency you like.

 

[slightconfuse]

Didn't DC have a whole month dedicated to origin stories?

 

[Cheska]

I just woke up, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on? Why are we talking about origin stories?

 

[Filthy Slug]

Didn't DC have a whole month dedicated to origin stories?

Yes, Zero issues. Some were origins, some were stories of earlier moments in those characters' lives, all interrupted the current story, and many were bad/disposable.

 

[Messi]

I just woke up, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on? Why are we talking about origin stories?

The newest origins book was announced and has origin stories for Harley Quinn, Damian and Green Arrow .

Yes, Zero issues. Some were origins, some were stories of earlier moments in those characters' lives, all interrupted the current story, and many were bad/disposable.

The Catwoman one actively shit on Catwomans mythology.

 

[GrandHarrier]

I just woke up, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on? Why are we talking about origin stories?

Part of the conversation is about the upcoming (April 23rd) DC Secret Origins book that is going to be a slightly larger book each month that details the origins of two to three characters. I'm on the side saying that origins for the New 52 incarnations make sense. Others (Jedeye) believe that previous origins are all that you need.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I just woke up, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on? Why are we talking about origin stories?

DC begins publishing a new series this month called Secret Origins that reveals the origins of strange and mysterious characters you may not know about, like Superman and Batman and Green Lantern and Harley Quinn and Robin, with "unexpected twists!" of the kind you've come to expect from the bold storytelling style of the New52.

EDIT:

Marvel is in no way attempting to capitalize on this idea with their own version. Not at all. Nope.

 

[Owzers]

DC begins publishing a new series this month called Secret Origins that reveals the origins of strange and mysterious characters you may not know about, like Superman and Batman and Green Lantern and Harley Quinn and Robin, with "unexpected twists!" of the kind you've come to expect from the bold storytelling style of the New52.

Bruce Wayne's parents were killed by Superman in a coked out rage.

 

[arkon]

Yes, Zero issues. Some were origins, some were stories of earlier moments in those characters' lives, all interrupted the current story, and many were bad/disposable.

I liked the Dial H one.

 

[Messi]

I do trust Amanda Conner to stick mostly to Harleys known origin and just add some bits to it. She seems to get Harley.

 

[Filthy Slug]

I liked the Dial H one.

Loved all the Dial H issues. Not all of the zero issues were bad.

 

[Messi]

What was that She Hulk novel like?

 

[slightconfuse]

I remember demon knights #0 I be pretty good etrigan story

 

[TetraxShards]

Bruce Wayne's parents were killed by Superman in a coked out rage.

Would read.

 

[tringworldso]

Marvel is in no way attempting to capitalize on this idea with their own version. Not at all. Nope.

Spiderman: Learning to Crawl is the most blatant response to Batman: Year Zero. From what I've read and can gather, *Speculative Spoiler*

Spoiler

the radioactive spider that bit Peter also bites a girl. So Peter fights an enemy having identical powers to him which is presumably that girl and thus as soon as this series ends in 5 months we have a character who has been around since "Peter's origins"

.

 

[GrandHarrier]

The Catwoman one actively shit on Catwomans mythology.

It drew inspiration from Batman Returns; truly one of the greatest interpretations of Selina we've ever gotten.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I think she tried to eat a bird in Batman Returns. Also, she was revived by magical alley cats.

Also also, she actually had nine lives, like that was actual plot point in that film.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Part of the conversation is about the upcoming (April 23rd) DC Secret Origins book that is going to be a slightly larger book each month that details the origins of two to three characters. I'm on the side saying that origins for the New 52 incarnations make sense. Others (Jedeye) believe that previous origins told in better stories are all that you need.

I knew you weren't listening to me.

 

[Messi]

I think she tried to eat a bird in Batman Returns. Also, she was revived by magical alley cats.

Also also, she actually had nine lives, like that was actual plot point in that film.

In #0 they had the magical cats licking her back to life after a big fall off a roof if I remember correctly.

 

[GrandHarrier]

In #0 they had the magical cats licking her back to life after a big fall off a roof if I remember correctly.

CANONICAL.

 

[Messi]

CANONICAL.

It was redicilous then too lol

 

[GrandHarrier]

It was redicilous then too lol

Holy shit. I think I somehow missed reading Catwoman #0 or something because I don't remember THIS, lol.

Kill it with fire.