GorillaWithDandruff
Member
You mean because the character can never be as good as they were in that run or because they were ruined in that particular run? Either way that seems like a kinda douchey reason to stop liking a character.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
COMICS! |OT| January 2015. So many variants you'd swear it's 1995 instead.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
You mean because the character can never be as good as they were in that run or because they were ruined in that particular run? Either way that seems like a kinda douchey reason to stop liking a character.
I forgot my Absolute Blackest Night copy had slight creasing at the bottom corner for the last 30 or so pages, mostly the special bonus content. Debating why i bought Absolute Blackest Night in the first place, why i didn't send it back, and if this bothers me.
I must be more decisive when Absolute Batman Inc arrives from IST, but i usually don't have problem with Absolutes.
I must be more decisive when Absolute Batman Inc arrives from IST, but i usually don't have problem with Absolutes.
No I'm talking in terms of a run capturing the spirit of a character or a group of characters so well that you have or can see yourself moving on from the series.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I pretty much just put Doom Patrol out of my head after Morrison/Case's run. Its got such a bittersweet perfect ending for those characters, and the run has mined so many ideas, that I feel I don't need to read them anymore. This it it. I'm sure some of the comics involving this characters post #63 are fine, and vibrant, and wacky, and beautiful but I have no interest in reading them.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Power Girl is another one. Palmiotti, Gray, and Conner created the definitive run of the character and while the following run wasn't bad, it just wasn't the same. Haven't even glanced at World's Finest or anything with her in the New 52. I know it won't compare to Power Trip.
Her issues in Harley Quinn are wonderful.
GrandHarrier
Member
The idea that a comic can be "done" just seems silly. That's not what I'm in comics for. I want new adventures each and every month. So the idea of stagnating on a single run will never work for me.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Forgot about that! Those were good, but that's what happens when you have Palmiotti and Conner together.
Shame Amanda didn't jump back in to draw those issues. Would have been really sweet.
slightconfuse
Banned
Feel they way about all star superman and HICKmans FF
I dropped the entire Green Lantern line after Johns Left the book. I know the latter issues of his run get a lot of flak, but I enjoyed them. For my money, from to start to finish, it was the definitive run on the character.
Freezasaurus
Member
I dropped the GL books around the time of the New 52 reboot. I was all GL'd out at that point after Blackest Night and Brightest Day and whatnot.
KoruptData
Member
Just read Ant-Man #1 and I enjoyed it. It was well written!
I don't need to read any Damian Wayne or Bucky Barnes stuff ever again tbh. Morrison's Batman and Brubaker's Cap are basically the same comic with different characters and it's nice they both got to end on their own terms with weird comics (Batman Inc. and Winter Soldier) that were the best parts of their respective runs.
Likewise: Born Again is literally a perfect ending for Daredevil imo. No disrespect to the many good dudes who've worked on him since, but that last page >>>> *
Likewise: Born Again is literally a perfect ending for Daredevil imo. No disrespect to the many good dudes who've worked on him since, but that last page >>>> *
ViewtifulJC
Banned
All the time. All non Frank Miller/Zeb Wells Elektra appearances are non-headcanon, because they seem to be the only mothafuckas who understand that character. Any Doom Patrol comics and appearances after Morrison/Case's run...they're on Danny the Planet that's where they will always be in my mind. My love of Iron Fist begins with those old Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Up comics and ends with Immortal Iron Fist #16.
We say we enjoy certain characters, but really we only enjoy them in good stories. Once that stops, fuck it. Drop it. Who cares, cuz you shouldn't.
I'm always thinking, "am I going to the next page of this book because I enjoy it or because I'm obligated to keep turning it because I paid money for it and I have nothing better to do for the next 5-10 minutes". One part of my brain is always in the story, and another part is thinking, "That was funny!" "I love the way Dan Slott links scenes together with incidental dialog, he understands the interplay between words and pictures is what makes comics unique." "The use of color here is really smart." "3 pages for that?". You're paying time and money for a book, with 20-22 pages in it. What are those pages doing? Are they funny or exciting or interesting in some way? Is the book constructed in a way that makes you compelled to keep reading it?
There are so many books out that there feel like they only exist to fill out beats, another link the chain, connecting this event to another event, this issue to another issue. To take a page out of Colin Smith's book, you got a typical Geoff Johnsian comic Flash #10, "Road to Flashpoint Part 2". Right off the bat, the title tells you this is just another book bidding time to get $3-4 dollars out of you this month until the big event happens, it probably won't matter and nothing interesting will happen. And you'd be right!
This is a full page of this 22 page book. There is nothing visually interesting about this entire page. There is no reason why this woman is granted so much of a page, or why we should care. It the beginning of four increasingly boring pages or an entire fifth of the book, when the key information delivered in the sequence can be effortlessly reduced to the following plot-points;
1. Patty arrives, Barry Allen is surprised.
2. The two of them hug.
3. Patty explains that she's changed career and why
4. Allen explains the outline of a case he'd like a hand with
5. Barry is called out on a case
There's an entire page in which Allen and Patty no-surname stare into each others' eyes and hug, but we're given no idea of what all of that means. Are they lovers, or friends, or would-be lovers, or what? So little context is delivered that the reader is confused rather than intrigued. None of this information is delivering with any sense of energy, no reason why this dull conversation which intrigues us about the plot, the setting, the characters, or how it relates to the world we live in not one bit, is giving four fuckin' pages.
This is another full page. With the exception of the first panel, none of this takes advantage of the visual potential of super-speeders. Five panels of straigh ahead shots of talking heads. These people could be running up waterfalls or racing across city blocks, or SOME fuckin' kind of kineticism that's been displayed in countless other comics involving the Flash. What are these backgrounds? In no way do they inform meaning on the dialog or the mood or the characters or the story. Even the world balloon placements is lazy, like why is there so much negative space in panel 4 and 6? Either those panels needed to be composed to compensate for the lack of dialogue in them, or more dialogue needed to be added to them. As it is, the panels sit largely empty of content and meaning, leaving an already largely banal, incident-free and plot-heavy page feeling even more dissatisfying than it already did.
This book isn't out of the norm. There are HUNDREDS of examples like this. Cruddy little things designed not made with a clear attention to craft and getting the reader's their money's worth, but just filling out the blanks. Johns had to do this, this, and this before the next comic happen, and it happen without any pop, or verve, or humor, or heart, or ANYTHING. No one will EVER read this comic, these 22 pages connected together and think, "wow, this is one of my favorite comics in awhile, such a great read!"
Why are you paying money for this shit? Why is this allowed to happen?
tha good huh? do you know the issues?
GrandHarrier
Member
There was for a minute in either the Messner-Loebs or Waid Flash runs, I forget which.
That reeks of 90's edgyness. Where are the leather jackets?
New 52 Flash was all style and no substance, some of the most boring stories ever put to page.
KoruptData
Member
I too read vol 1 of n52 Flash and just started skipping parts because it was so boring to read but nice to look at.
Their Tec run has been solid though.
Their Tec run has been solid though.
Memento Mori
Member
Dark Reign Fantastic Four 1-5
Fantastic Four #570-588
FF #1-11
Fantastic Four #600-611
FF #12-23
GrandHarrier
Member
Memento Mori
Member
Also Jesse Quick.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I actually enjoyed the first trade. The second was definitely a bore, though.
FF = Future Foundation?
yep yep, also by Hickman.
Serpentine
Banned
"I obviously need this because it ties in to the event"
"50 dollar variant? It's gotta be a Scott Young"
"Harley Quinn appearance in a one panel flashback equals instabuy"
right click + saved
Suicide Squad pretty much peaked with Ostrander
ViewtifulJC
Banned
to balance this out with some good examples, here's is a page from Batman Inc Vol.2 #1 that also showcases a conversation between two characters.
Morrison/Burnham have found a visually interesting way to compose this conversation, using the environment, smart iconography of the two characters, and sets up a couple of potentially interesting future pages, with Batman and Robin lookin' down on the DKR's mutants. The yellow narration caption at the bottom links this page to the next one, stating an interesting question that you're interested in hearing whoever this is answer it. This page works as a beautiful single unit, but still functions as a part of a whole, necessary step in the story.
They don't even have to be so formally impressive, just a base level of competency is all I'm asking for. Uncanny X-Men #535 has its opening scene close with this simple tragic number, with Peter unable to touch the woman he loves because of her permanent phasing problem after escaping the giant Breakworld bullet.
Its a nice little moment that connects to the next page.
A caption tells us where we are exactly, the piping drawing our eyes down the page, past Dr. Nemesis and his science doo-hicky(but foreshadowing his appearance on the very next page) to the person answering the question. Its a pretty absurd situation to explain, and Gillen needs to use 42 words in a single panel to do it. But the vertical nature of the panel has you gliding your eyes down to read the words, and Gillen's use of relatable, every day metaphors instead of confusing technobabble makes it relatively enjoyable. There's a funny juxtaposition between Kavita Rao's request for calm and Kitty's obvious NOT calm demeanor, balled fists and intense expression, a funny little beat the story doesn't hammer home and keeps the conversation going. Kavita's pessimistically shuts down our likable characters from the first few pages and their predicament looks grim, which will be developed further across the length of the story until of course, Kitty triumphantly granted her full usage of her phasing through the an empathic gesture from a would-be antagonist.
Ya know, I'm not asking for much here. Just a bit of care and skill to making full use of these spare 20-22 pages you're asking $3-4 dollars for, ya know? Uncanny X-Men #535-538 probably won't be anybody's favorite X-Men comic outside hardcore Kitty fans, but its a small, good set of comics, created with a fair degree of competency. Don't know why that has to be so rare in this industry, but this is where we are now.
If you're reading a comic, and after 10 pages you don't feel like the creators are really doing right by you and your time/money, drop that shit.
Morrison/Burnham have found a visually interesting way to compose this conversation, using the environment, smart iconography of the two characters, and sets up a couple of potentially interesting future pages, with Batman and Robin lookin' down on the DKR's mutants. The yellow narration caption at the bottom links this page to the next one, stating an interesting question that you're interested in hearing whoever this is answer it. This page works as a beautiful single unit, but still functions as a part of a whole, necessary step in the story.
They don't even have to be so formally impressive, just a base level of competency is all I'm asking for. Uncanny X-Men #535 has its opening scene close with this simple tragic number, with Peter unable to touch the woman he loves because of her permanent phasing problem after escaping the giant Breakworld bullet.
Its a nice little moment that connects to the next page.
A caption tells us where we are exactly, the piping drawing our eyes down the page, past Dr. Nemesis and his science doo-hicky(but foreshadowing his appearance on the very next page) to the person answering the question. Its a pretty absurd situation to explain, and Gillen needs to use 42 words in a single panel to do it. But the vertical nature of the panel has you gliding your eyes down to read the words, and Gillen's use of relatable, every day metaphors instead of confusing technobabble makes it relatively enjoyable. There's a funny juxtaposition between Kavita Rao's request for calm and Kitty's obvious NOT calm demeanor, balled fists and intense expression, a funny little beat the story doesn't hammer home and keeps the conversation going. Kavita's pessimistically shuts down our likable characters from the first few pages and their predicament looks grim, which will be developed further across the length of the story until of course, Kitty triumphantly granted her full usage of her phasing through the an empathic gesture from a would-be antagonist.
Ya know, I'm not asking for much here. Just a bit of care and skill to making full use of these spare 20-22 pages you're asking $3-4 dollars for, ya know? Uncanny X-Men #535-538 probably won't be anybody's favorite X-Men comic outside hardcore Kitty fans, but its a small, good set of comics, created with a fair degree of competency. Don't know why that has to be so rare in this industry, but this is where we are now.
If you're reading a comic, and after 10 pages you don't feel like the creators are really doing right by you and your time/money, drop that shit.
Serpentine
Banned
I'd imagine it's a combination of writers not even accounting for it and artists not bothering bringing their own flair to a script and just drawing it as is
Another Marvel Series I will never see, since Disney dont want Money from german folks
Freezasaurus
Member
Is Wood still writing?
Shin Johnpv
Member
Not particularly no. It all just felt so forced, and without his healing factor he would have lasted all of 2 - 3 seconds having molten adamantium poured on him.
The whole thing felt so forced, and amateurish.
Freezasaurus
Member
IGN gonna IGN.
I'd like to read more comic scripts. I'd like to see the varying approaches of different writers.
I wonder who the best "artist's writers" are
GorillaWithDandruff
Member
Ight JC. That was some good shit. Totally fuckin agree. Characters don't make good stories, creators do. BUT. Don't you guys think it's a little pretentious of someone to think they've found the ultimate end-all be-all story or arc of a character or group and that's where it ends? I mean it's a little understandable in situations like Doom Patrol where they really have nothin goin for them outside of one particular creator's work on them, in that case Morrison's. But most of the time these characters have decades of history and more than likely decades to come. To just ignore that and say that you're satisfied with all they have to offer just feels kinda douchey. I don't even know doe. Just imo. Not sayin people gotta enjoy all the shit about a character they like that comes out cuz that's fuckin stupid. I'm just sayin don't limit yourself because you found a nice little "perfect" story.
But yea if you ain't liking a book drop dat shit.
Also JC I think your main beef is a personal one towards shitty artists. Most artists with even a shrivel of love for their work strive to achieve what you're askin for and keep things engaging and riveting. The points you bring up are really only seen in shitty comics which you can't be expecting much from anyway.
Second also, yea PM&IF is the fucking shit yo.
Edit: aight shitty's a strong word. "Artists just doing it because it's another gig" is more what I meant.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Mannnnnnnnn that first issue was SOOOOOO good, then everything else dropped off like a fucking rock on Jupiter. It feels so dragged out, like a 5 or 6 issue mini they're trying to make into a 3 year run.
Nah he's gone. The first issue was just kind of weak. It was about a tornado and Storm contorting into some weird ass poses and some shit fell on her. Then she had a wet dream about Logan.
It's more of a premise than a plot at this point tied together with a lead character fan that i like less than the Panthers.
I think i'll order up until this arc ends
GorillaWithDandruff
Member
waaaaaah? Him thinking about the tiny little meaningful parts of his life in his last couple seconds rather than the big stupid stuff. *little sniffles* It's okay to feel bro. Come on. We all do.
...hmm....which issue is this we're speaking of again...?
For all his many faces, it's probably Frank Miller the collaborator who is my favourite. He matches Sienkiewicz's schizophrenia tic for tac, he knows to stand back and let Darrow to his thing, he's restrained when it comes to Mazzucchelli, Jim Lee's work with him is career-best, JRJR is an in-between version of his Daredevil -> Elektra Lives Again Era and "bigfoot" stuff so he plays with that... it's alll kind of great.
I still think Mark Millar is the great action comics writer of the 2000s, Authority until Ultimates 2 in particular has some great stuff in it.
Peter Milligan to me is an interesting guy because he only does good work with certain artists, but the good stuff is basically perfect for the artist he's working with.