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COMICS! |OT| January 2015. So many variants you'd swear it's 1995 instead.

Lashley

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
Well since IGN spoiled it for me, I've just read Robin Rises Alpha. I like the new twist with Damian.
 
C

CrichtonKicks

Member
Fintan said:
ViewtifulJC, do you think this is mostly an issue with the artists? Or is it a case of capable artists given poor scripts to work with? A combination of both, I guess.
Click to expand...

Most writers at least at least break down the content of each page even if they don't do it panel by panel. The utter lack of content in that first Flash page that he posted is Johns just totally phoning it in.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
GorillaWithDandruff said:
Ight JC. That was some good shit. Totally fuckin agree. Characters don't make good stories, creators do. BUT. Don't you guys think it's a little pretentious of someone to think they've found the ultimate end-all be-all story or arc of a character or group and that's where it ends? I mean it's a little understandable in situations like Doom Patrol where they really have nothin goin for them outside of one particular creator's work on them, in that case Morrison's. But most of the time these characters have decades of history and more than likely decades to come. To just ignore that and say that you're satisfied with all they have to offer just feels kinda douchey. I don't even know doe. Just imo. Not sayin people gotta enjoy all the shit about a character they like that comes out cuz that's fuckin stupid. I'm just sayin don't limit yourself because you found a nice little "perfect" story.

But yea if you ain't liking a book drop dat shit.

Also JC I think your main beef is a personal one towards shitty artists. Most artists with even a shrivel of love for their work strive to achieve what you're askin for and keep things engaging and riveting. The points you bring up are really only seen in shitty comics which you can't be expecting much from anyway.

Second also, yea PM&IF is the fucking shit yo.

Edit: aight shitty's a strong word. "Artists just doing it because it's another gig" is more what I meant.
Click to expand...

I think the only sane way to approach characters that have such long histories is to pick and choose what you consider good and canon. Whats wrong with being satisfied with a finite number of stories about a world and a character? Who wants to sign off, ball and chain attached, to a bunch of bad comics? Being a fan of Spider-man doesn't mean you need to like, read, or even think about One More Day, or Sins Past, or the Clone Saga, or the hundreds of lame-ass stories that character has been involved in. Unless you story you're reading invokes them in some way, why do they matter? I'm not saying they shouldn't be any more stories about a certain character, but I don't need to ream them, do I?

IDK, I think a lot of superhero fans have some really fucked priorities. Like there are dudes out there who just straight up refuse to read All-Star Superman or Mark Millar's Superman Adventures cuz its out of continuity so it doesn't count. Like...the fuck? How about reading it because, oh I don't know, they're very good Superman comics!? Did the quality of the story not matter? They would rather read some boring ass Nu52 Lobdell Superman over any "non-canon" story, actual contents inside the the cover be damned. Some people will put up with a LOT of junk ass comics just to get another "fix" of their favorite character. That's how they get away with releasing stuff like Flash #10, niggas buy it anyway, doesn't matter what the pages look like.

And I don't think its just an art thing I'm citing, its got to come down to the script. Nobody, not even Frank Quitely or Otomo or Moebius himself could have made that first Flash page a good use of space. There are plenty of comics with GREAT artists, but they're stuck in dull books. Fear Itself has one of the best superhero art teams in the business with Stuart Immonen and Laura Martin, but the book is hollow spectacle. Big moments, no narrative. The quote by Fraction was really crazy.

"You do that and it is the all-time greatest Captain America story. Put it up in the rafters. No one is going to ever touch it. You are Frank Miller on Daredevil if you have the Red Skull kill Bucky when you’ve done with Bucky."

As if the idea of a story is what makes it great, and again its like the content didn't matter. Elektra's death resonated so much because it was in a fantastic comic book, Daredevil #181. A double-sized issue crafted by an ingenious storyteller who fused pop-noir with manga into a dense, exceptionally entertaining read. Classic comics aren't classic on shock value alone. Fear Itself #3 seemed to think so though, and its just a nothing comic. The only people working hard are the artists.

The best comics(hell, the GOOD comics) are the ones where both the writer and the artists are totally in sync with each other, everyone working on the same wavelength to give the reader a quality experience. That great fusion of words and pictures composed in some certain order to elict a response from us readers. Most don't do it well, but it CAN be done, and its great when it happens.

foom091124-4.jpg
Click to expand...
 
F

Fintan

Member
I for sure spent way too much money on certain not-so-great comics as a kid. For example, really liking some parts of the Ultimate line so feeling the need to buy all of it.

I think I'm more discerning now. And the lesser stuff, at least from Marvel, can wait for Marvel Unlimited.
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
Ooh you meant the comic version. I thought you meant the novels.

Of all the new Star Wars now on Cmx what's the cream of the crop. The dark empire collection looks interesting.
 
I

Isak_Borg

Member
gketter said:
Ooh you meant the comic version. I thought you meant the novels.

Of all the new Star Wars now on Cmx what's the cream of the crop. The dark empire collection looks interesting.
Click to expand...

I started Dark Empire this morning and hopefully it's good.

We shall see.

Hopefully CMX releases more Star Wars comics.
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
All the time. All non Frank Miller/Zeb Wells Elektra appearances are non-headcanon, because they seem to be the only mothafuckas who understand that character. Any Doom Patrol comics and appearances after Morrison/Case's run...they're on Danny the Planet that's where they will always be in my mind. My love of Iron Fist begins with those old Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Up comics and ends with Immortal Iron Fist #16.

We say we enjoy certain characters, but really we only enjoy them in good stories. Once that stops, fuck it. Drop it. Who cares, cuz you shouldn't.

I'm always thinking, "am I going to the next page of this book because I enjoy it or because I'm obligated to keep turning it because I paid money for it and I have nothing better to do for the next 5-10 minutes". One part of my brain is always in the story, and another part is thinking, "That was funny!" "I love the way Dan Slott links scenes together with incidental dialog, he understands the interplay between words and pictures is what makes comics unique." "The use of color here is really smart." "3 pages for that?". You're paying time and money for a book, with 20-22 pages in it. What are those pages doing? Are they funny or exciting or interesting in some way? Is the book constructed in a way that makes you compelled to keep reading it?

There are so many books out that there feel like they only exist to fill out beats, another link the chain, connecting this event to another event, this issue to another issue. To take a page out of Colin Smith's book, you got a typical Geoff Johnsian comic Flash #10, "Road to Flashpoint Part 2". Right off the bat, the title tells you this is just another book bidding time to get $3-4 dollars out of you this month until the big event happens, it probably won't matter and nothing interesting will happen. And you'd be right!

[MG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wno0c-PQiCU/Tb_RPSp_IvI/AAAAAAAAGPo/pysbdTF64Xw/s1600/scan0001.jpg[/IMG]

This is a full page of this 22 page book. There is nothing visually interesting about this entire page. There is no reason why this woman is granted so much of a page, or why we should care. It the beginning of four increasingly boring pages or an entire fifth of the book, when the key information delivered in the sequence can be effortlessly reduced to the following plot-points;

1. Patty arrives, Barry Allen is surprised.
2. The two of them hug.
3. Patty explains that she's changed career and why
4. Allen explains the outline of a case he'd like a hand with
5. Barry is called out on a case

There's an entire page in which Allen and Patty no-surname stare into each others' eyes and hug, but we're given no idea of what all of that means. Are they lovers, or friends, or would-be lovers, or what? So little context is delivered that the reader is confused rather than intrigued. None of this information is delivering with any sense of energy, no reason why this dull conversation which intrigues us about the plot, the setting, the characters, or how it relates to the world we live in not one bit, is giving four fuckin' pages.

[IG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jXpYtIds6a4/Tb_c1Ti67dI/AAAAAAAAGPw/vRxHjAy3XHM/s1600/scan0003.jpg[/IMG]

This is another full page. With the exception of the first panel, none of this takes advantage of the visual potential of super-speeders. Five panels of straigh ahead shots of talking heads. These people could be running up waterfalls or racing across city blocks, or SOME fuckin' kind of kineticism that's been displayed in countless other comics involving the Flash. What are these backgrounds? In no way do they inform meaning on the dialog or the mood or the characters or the story. Even the world balloon placements is lazy, like why is there so much negative space in panel 4 and 6? Either those panels needed to be composed to compensate for the lack of dialogue in them, or more dialogue needed to be added to them. As it is, the panels sit largely empty of content and meaning, leaving an already largely banal, incident-free and plot-heavy page feeling even more dissatisfying than it already did.

[IG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3m1lpWC6Fdg/TcA5zgPx5aI/AAAAAAAAGQQ/T16Hl3la62A/s1600/scan0005.jpg[/IMG]

This book isn't out of the norm. There are HUNDREDS of examples like this. Cruddy little things designed not made with a clear attention to craft and getting the reader's their money's worth, but just filling out the blanks. Johns had to do this, this, and this before the next comic happen, and it happen without any pop, or verve, or humor, or heart, or ANYTHING. No one will EVER read this comic, these 22 pages connected together and think, "wow, this is one of my favorite comics in awhile, such a great read!"

Why are you paying money for this shit? Why is this allowed to happen?
Click to expand...

I'll agree. Many books do seem to be written in a paint by numbers method.

Compare a "similar" half page panel in the opening page of Planetary. The new character's half page introduction panel works because of the three panels preceding it. Gives us an immediate sense of the character and raises curiosity about her statement.

tApxqvJ.jpg
Click to expand...

Here's another page where the writer's script might just have been "a page of someone walking into the shadow" but it still makes for a great page. And like you said, it works because of everything the writer and artist have built up before it.

fdBLmVV.jpg
Click to expand...
 
T

Tyrant Rave

Banned
Today's freebie from the Humble Bundle is The Fuse #1.

Kinda disappointed since I just got it from the bundle, at least they gave us Ody-C yesterday which isn't in the bundle at the moment.
 
T

Tyrant Rave

Banned
That week last year where both Power Girl: Power Trip and Dan Slott's She-Hulk Complete Collection Volume 1 came out was killer.

This past week was really bad too since Absolute Batman Inc. and Casanova HC 2 both came out but I decided to be responsible with my money and wait a little on Batman so I can read it when my backlog isn't as crazy (lol). There was also the Humble Bundle but that's not so pricey.
 
O

Owzers

Member
i chose going back to Wonder Woman over starting on my pile of East of West issues....came back when Chiang was apparently taking a break, issue 17 on.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
PsychBat! said:
$100 a week? Damn. My wallet would kill itself.
Click to expand...

It's a waste of money no matter how much you like comics. How many of us actually collect the things as opposed to just reading them to keep up with the story? I spend $20-$30 a week on average, and I still think that's too much. It's a fun hobby, but keeping up with every story that remotely interests you by buying floppies as opposed to trade-waiting or reading spoilers on the internet is a case of high cost / low return.
 
P

PsychBat!

Banned
Freezasaurus said:
It's a waste of money no matter how much you like comics. How many of us actually collect the things as opposed to just reading them to keep up with the story? I spend $20-$30 a week on average, and I still think that's too much. It's a fun hobby, but keeping up with every story that remotely interests you by buying floppies as opposed to trade-waiting or reading spoilers on the internet is a case of high cost / low return.
Click to expand...
I think the highest I've paid once was around $40. I just stood there flabbergasted because I didn't think it would be so much. So I told the cashier to just save several books I wasn't taking at the moment for purchase later. It is a fun hobby, and I make sure to buy floppies that have stories that I really like and have fun reading and collecting.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Freezasaurus said:
It's a waste of money no matter how much you like comics. How many of us actually collect the things as opposed to just reading them to keep up with the story? I spend $20-$30 a week on average, and I still think that's too much. It's a fun hobby, but keeping up with every story that remotely interests you by buying floppies as opposed to trade-waiting or reading spoilers on the internet is a case of high cost / low return.
Click to expand...

Mmm, I think $20-30 is normal for most hobbies. I've seen people spend >$200 a month on crafting supplies.
 
M

my name is ed

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
And I don't think its just an art thing I'm citing, its got to come down to the script. Nobody, not even Frank Quitely or Otomo or Moebius himself could have made that first Flash page a good use of space. There are plenty of comics with GREAT artists, but they're stuck in dull books. Fear Itself has one of the best superhero art teams in the business with Stuart Immonen and Laura Martin, but the book is hollow spectacle. Big moments, no narrative. The quote by Fraction was really crazy.

"You do that and it is the all-time greatest Captain America story. Put it up in the rafters. No one is going to ever touch it. You are Frank Miller on Daredevil if you have the Red Skull kill Bucky when you’ve done with Bucky."

As if the idea of a story is what makes it great, and again its like the content didn't matter. Elektra's death resonated so much because it was in a fantastic comic book, Daredevil #181. A double-sized issue crafted by an ingenious storyteller who fused pop-noir with manga into a dense, exceptionally entertaining read. Classic comics aren't classic on shock value alone. Fear Itself #3 seemed to think so though, and its just a nothing comic. The only people working hard are the artists.

The best comics(hell, the GOOD comics) are the ones where both the writer and the artists are totally in sync with each other, everyone working on the same wavelength to give the reader a quality experience. That great fusion of words and pictures composed in some certain order to elict a response from us readers. Most don't do it well, but it CAN be done, and its great when it happens.
Click to expand...
That page is a goddamn masterpiece of sequential art.

I think you've made some great points about what makes good comics. The pages you've shown definitely have some fundamental problems. They're just not interesting visually and they're not written to really take advantage of the single issue comics medium. I do think that we, the audience, have made this happen. If we want better comics, then we need to prepare to wait for them or pay more for them. We complain about rushed art and we complain about delays or art changes, but really, a handful of guys are working to put out a 20ish page comic every month.

I know some guys that are busting their ass drawing 80 hours a week to make those comics as great as they possibly can. And some dudes will only put 100 hours into an issue of a comic. You know what? I don't really blame them that much. Only top level artists get paid very much. $300 dollars to draw a page is pretty much nothing in comparison to the amount of money some of these guys could make in other fields. So we want great comics, we want them in monthly installments and we want them cheap. That can't really be done.

In regards to writers, sometimes they're bad fits on a book. Maybe Fraction wasn't a writer who thought execution didn't matter much when you have Immonen on your book. Maybe he's a good writer who missed the mark on an event book. Sometimes the writer is put on a book that's already been given editorial direction, and they can't really do much more than hit plot points. Sometimes writers have to tread lightly because we, the audience. brand major changes as gimmicks and expect status quos. Sometimes two books could do better if they didn't have to be within continuity but editorial knows we have demanded cohesion between titles.

I think that if we want the best books possible, we need to be a bit more realistic as an audience and change our collective values a bit. In my opinion, I think continued strong support of Image/indie titles is our best bet. Or we could just continue to buy All New Uncanny Doombots and all its variants. Which sounds good to me actually.
 
G

GrandHarrier

Member
I think there really is no right answer in any of the art debate because of the subjective nature of the medium. Ones enjoyment of a book is entirely dependant on what you are getting out of it. For some people they are looking for the hype factor, getting on board with whatever is new and then moving on when it's no longer in the zeitgeist. Others are interested in writers/artist teams. And yet others are fond of characters or concepts and sticking with them. None of these are wrong ways of enjoying the medium no matter how much one might think otherwise because if someone is enjoying something, you saying it's bad won't change their feelings on it, nor should it.
 
G

GrandHarrier

Member
my name is ed said:
I know some guys that are busting their ass drawing 80 hours a week to make those comics as great as they possibly can. And some dudes will only put 100 hours into an issue of a comic. You know what? I don't really blame them that much. Only top level artists get paid very much. $300 dollars to draw a page is pretty much nothing in comparison to the amount of money some of these guys could make in other fields. So we want great comics, we want them in monthly installments and we want them cheap. That can't really be done.

I think that if we want the best books possible, we need to be a bit more realistic as an audience and change our collective values a bit. In my opinion, I think continued strong support of Image/indie titles is our best bet. Or we could just continue to buy All New Uncanny Doombots and all its variants. Which sounds good to me actually.
Click to expand...

For a certain level of comics I think it is sustainable. It's why you see a lot of RoW artists for the mid tier comics. I'm not saying it's right but it's a way for these artists to get recognized in the industry and then move on to works that will pay them much better than your typical monthly title. It's an unfortunate reality of the relatively small size of the industry compared to others that a dozen hungry writers and artists will work for peanuts just for the chance at Super star status.

But you're right that indie titles are a great way to reward the artist who has gotten that lucky break or gone through the Crucible of big two work to reach that point. I know that there are a handful of artists I've discovered through my big two readings that I'd follow to their independent work in a heartbeat that I'd have probably never given a chance without seeing them on my monthly pulls.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Lashley said:
What's it about?
Click to expand...

It's by Greg Rucka.
Takes place in a Dystopia where the US (At least) is divided into lands ruled by Families and each Family has a Lazarus, sort of super soldier who protects the Family and its interests. It's a slow book but I enjoy Rucka's writing a lot in it.
 
K

KoruptData

Member
The Sunday list.

My BuyList via Comics Day App
Sub Total for 8 items: $28.43
Discount @15%: $4.26
Sales Tax @0.0%: $0.00
Total: $24.17
BATGIRL #38 $2.99
BATMAN ETERNAL #41 $2.99
GRAYSON #6 $2.99
JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED #8 $3.99
NEW 52 FUTURES END #37 (WEEKLY) $2.99
SUPERMAN WONDER WOMAN #15 $3.99
RAT QUEENS SPECIAL BRAGA #1 CVR A FOWLER (MR) $3.50
STAR WARS #1 $4.99
0 items priced 'Please Inquire':
End of BuyList
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Zombine said:
Tizoc, what's the word on Mega Man x Sonic? There is a sale on CMX where you can pick up Vol 1-3 for $15.
Click to expand...

The crossover is great and fun, you don't need to have read either comic to enjoy them, but the art can be hit or miss for some people.
The last 4 issue arc has the BEST art IMO, and really what you'll like more is Eggman and Wily being total bros
500px-WWC_Evil_Bro_Fist.png


That's not to mention the spread that has every Robot Master from Megaman 1 to 10.

Get on it if you want a light or just fun story, if you have any kids or younger relatives they can enjoy it too. I should also mention how the writer, Ian likes to toss in random tidbits and stuff that only those who played the series will catch, the Chase and Battle chip/MBM Chip.
 
Z

Zombine

Banned
At the very least I'll pick up volume 1 and see how I feel about it.

Oh, btw guys I'm still amazing at Destiny PVP. 29 kills 4.89 K/D. Of course we won.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Zombine said:
At the very least I'll pick up volume 1 and see how I feel about it.
Click to expand...

The art may not be very appealing, but the writing and characters are good, so hopefully you like it :p
CAn you do like a 'gift' of what digital comics you buy off comixology?
 
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