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COMICS! |OT| October 2014. Witches, wytches, and things that go GROOT in the night.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
- Status
ThyMusicMan
Member
Well I'm glad I didn't see this before I ordered.. lol the guilt never would have gone away if I made a $100+ graphic novel purchase.
..Plus I am going outa town to Michigan for the whole weekend for my wifes birthday,, so I already feel a little guilty haha .
Shin Johnpv
Member
Babs Tarr, Francis Manapul, Amanda Conner, John Paul Leon, Cliff Chiang, Ken Rocafort, and others.
You could always tell her that you bought them
for "us." That's what I do.
It doesnt work anymore.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
But at least if you resell the floppies you no longer have the floppy in your collection.
You can waggle your hand through the loophole all you want, doesn't change the fact that it's skeevy.
ThyMusicMan
Member
Haha,, she's not really into it at all.. she's a teacher, she like all those stupid books with only words I guess... Although she does teach kindergarten,, so you think she'd love the picture books!?
- I just saw the "it doesn't work anymore" ..hahaha
GrandHarrier
Member
If I buy a physical/digital combo pack and sell the digital code I don't have the digital version.
The "loophole" is entirely of the publishers choosing and implementation. If they didn't want you to do it they'd stop it. Or adopt the DC method of a higher cost to offset the additional copy.
Don't forget Dustin Nguyen!
I've only asked for a code once I believe, for the new Thor single. I do admit that it felt a bit, not sure how to word it, shady? It should be okay as long as someone is willing to share the code. But eh, I'm on the fence with Jed and Harrier's stances. If the issue that was given is good, then I'd buy the single/trade.
I think Dan Slott kept retweeting free digital codes that people were giving away when SSM was still active. As long as the word gets out, I guess?
ThyMusicMan
Member
This was my thought on it.
I like Jason Fabok a lot,, like I've said, one of my favorite (current age) Batman artist
Uh oh. What have I started here!? I feel like it's always me accidentally starting these big fights. And it's the ONE TIME I ask for a code... Lesson learned. My apologies for that.
I do totally agree with your principle though. If no money is getting to the creators, then exchanging money with someone doesn't really have much meaning although it is technically more legal. Though there is one caveat: If someone buys a digital code from someone else, that digital code no longer exists to sell, so someone else can't buy it, which means hypothetically that the someone else who would buy it if you didn't might buy an actual copy of the comic that the creators get paid for.
With that said, I'm a live and let live kind of guy, so it really doesn't bother me at all when people sell their codes or buy digital codes from others. Marvel gives them the option, so I don't mind.
Now, my personal reasons for asking for the digital code rather than just torrenting, even though the result is the same, is that I'd feel very illegitimate discussing an issue on here that I've torrented. Especially since it's pretty well-known that I'm a collected-editions-only guy. I feel like it'd be pretty clear that I'd torrented the issue if I started discussing it even though I don't buy single issues. I'm a self-conscious guy and I don't like being silently judged by people on the internet, so I wouldn't want to go that route (though it seems this route is just as prone to silent judgement, which is fair, and I'm now aware of that).
So yeah, sorry for the code begging. I'll definitely not be doing that anymore.
Also, regarding Absolute Batman & Robin, I plan to pick that up sometime before Absolute Batman Inc comes out. I'm so excited for it. Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
So good.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
You're not wrong. But actually you are a little bit. Print comics and digital work pretty differently. Stores buy them in bulk, Marvel or whoever gets a lump purchase sum by distributors. And that's the end of the day.
Digital has at least the potential to be a truly one to one purchase and measure of earning and popularity.
Also, I think we're talking about different things. You want to sell your code? Knock yourself out. People asking for free ones are the ones doing something skeevocks. Of course anyone has the legal right to give away their property, the code. It doesn't change the fact that someone else is circumventing the capitalist system designed to compensate creatives.
And full disclosure, I think people who are all "I'm gonna wait til this game is $20 used" are the same kind of gross. I won't be sad when digital runs the used game ecosystem into the dirt in 40 years. Maybe then a studio that makes freakin Bioshock Infinite won't have to close.
See, the thing is, there is overwhelming evidence that the way I look at this stuff is right. Studios are shutting down. Comic prices are going up. And the public at large is demanding more and more for less and less.
I'm going to side with artists over consumers forever and that's all there is to it.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Next week
Shit, really? Goddamn.
There's Travel Foreman's art on Animal Man.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Also, Eternal has put out Bertram AND Guera so you can't really call DC out on this anymore. They can put out a thousand snoozer "house" "style" books, but putting them on one of their biggest events gives them a free pass for life.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Uh oh. What have I started here!? I feel like it's always me accidentally starting these big fights. And it's the ONE TIME I ask for a code... Lesson learned. My apologies for that.
I do totally agree with your principle though. If no money is getting to the creators, then exchanging money with someone doesn't really have much meaning although it is technically more legal. Though there is one caveat: If someone buys a digital code from someone else, that digital code no longer exists to sell, so someone else can't buy it, which means hypothetically that the someone else who would buy it if you didn't might buy an actual copy of the comic that the creators get paid for.
With that said, I'm a live and let live kind of guy, so it really doesn't bother me at all when people sell their codes or buy digital codes from others. Marvel gives them the option, so I don't mind.
Now, my personal reasons for asking for the digital code rather than just torrenting, even though the result is the same, is that I'd feel very illegitimate discussing an issue on here that I've torrented. Especially since it's pretty well-known that I'm a collected-editions-only guy. I feel like it'd be pretty clear that I'd torrented the issue if I started discussing it even though I don't buy single issues. I'm a self-conscious guy and I don't like being silently judged by people on the internet, so I wouldn't want to go that route (though it seems this route is just as prone to silent judgement, which is fair, and I'm now aware of that).
So yeah, sorry for the code begging. I'll definitely not be doing that anymore.
Also, regarding Absolute Batman & Robin, I plan to pick that up sometime before Absolute Batman Inc comes out. I'm so excited for it. Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
So good.
Hey no worries, if you folks want to do that then go ahead, I was merely expressing an opinion that pops into my head a few times a week. It is after all just one opinion.
And yeah I bought B&R because what I really want is Inc for xmas but I'm a completest and B&R is one of my top 3 runs.
Bertraaaaaam!!
They need to give him a book ASAP.Since I think you are talking about me, I can just repeat that most book that I get here as a digital code, I buy later as a Trade, OHC or Omnibus. And since I wouldnt have bought most of them without geting a handful of free Issues to look into, I dont think that I should have a bad feeling about it.
Perfect example: Rocket Racoon. I just knew about Bendis shitty Guardians of the Earth. Even while I liked Scottie Youngs art before, I couldnt have cared less about the series. After three free Issues I am all in and would buy everything of the series.
Same for Uncanny Avengers. I only read the first Issue since it was given away for free from Marvel before. I hated it. If I wouldnt have got a Digital Code from the fourth Hardcover here, I wouldnt have preordered the Omnibus, the Axis OHC (since its the finale of the series) and the Axis Event Tie-Ins Trades, since its all connected somehow with Uncanny Avengers.
Thats like 170$ I spend on their books in exchange for 20$ they lost because I got it for free.
I know there are horders, who just want this books because they make the collection bigger and never read them. But they wouldnt have bought the book, anyway. And I am sure none of these guys are here on GAF.
Anyway, digital comics are farE to overpriced. They coast almost 4$ in the Store, the same price as the physical copy. Why should I pay the same price, when they arent printed, shipped and no comicshop wants it cut from the price? This isnt a specific thing for comics, its the same with games and VoD. I dont see why I should pay the same when the publisher has far lower costs. Thats why I am consume all my medias physical and I will do this as long as I will be able to.
But I will stop asking for codes here. I have no problems with that.
Beside that, I dont think that Irrational Games had to close because Bioshock Infinite didnt sell enough. It sold a high number of million copys. We knew, that there were a lot of trouble during the development and Levine sounded more like he would really focus on smaller and personaler games.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I don't even particularly disagree with this, but you could get those free tasters from torrents too (fuck the legality, who really cares about that?), even for Image and DC series. It's the same argument as with music - I'll listen to a leak but buy the record (mayyyyybe).
The new digital landscape for media is twofold: you either pay the artist or you don't. Ethically there is no real difference between a free code that was not intended for you and a torrent of the same issue. None at all. We're living in a world where we're faced with these choices on a regular basis, we all need to decide our own spot on the sliding morality scale. Why would it be OK to 'sample' music or movies or tv but not comics?
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
Yo, I'm interjecting some levity into this morning:
Have y'all seen the New 52 reboot of Count Chockula, Boo Berry, and Franken Berry? Check out probably the funniest damn Comics Alliance article critiquing Jim Lee's Boo Berry redesign.
Have y'all seen the New 52 reboot of Count Chockula, Boo Berry, and Franken Berry? Check out probably the funniest damn Comics Alliance article critiquing Jim Lee's Boo Berry redesign.
Unclear legal situation. German lawyers are awful fuckers regarding everything what has to do with the internet. We have something here thats called "Abmahnung". Lawyers scan torrentpages, see your IP, get your adress from the authories and threat you to pay multiple thousands of Euros to them because you downloaded a couple of files to them or they will sue you.
I dont think that Marvel payes germany lawyers to do this scum, but since its a Disney owned company and Warner is behind DC, its all possible. I dont want to risk to pay multiple thousands of euros, because I want to know whats going on in the new Issue of a new series which I maybe dont even like.
Dont even speak of judges, they are 80 year old people who never went to the Internet and have no fucking idea about all this stuff. Its a common lawcase here , that judges have no fucking idea what an IP adress is and that when your IP shows up, it doesnt have to be you who downloaded the content. Because IPs change. But they dont get it.
Also, Comixolofy offers DRM free downloads on a lot of books, too. They arent even locked away in a Marvel Account, I could send copies of Image (?) books to all my friends, if I want. There arent even codes needed.
I dont do this via torrents, too. If I buy a movie and I dont like it, its bad luck.
Yo, I'm interjecting some levity into this morning:
Have y'all seen the New 52 reboot of Count Chockula, Boo Berry, and Franken Berry? Check out probably the funniest damn Comics Alliance article critiquing Jim Lee's Boo Berry redesign.
That can't be Jim Lee. Where are all the lines!?
Anyway, I liked the retro throwback cereals we got last year. Bring those back. I still have some Fruity Yummy Mummy going bad.
Yo, I'm interjecting some levity into this morning:
Have y'all seen the New 52 reboot of Count Chockula, Boo Berry, and Franken Berry? Check out probably the funniest damn Comics Alliance article critiquing Jim Lee's Boo Berry redesign.
I'm dying here.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Of course, I disagree entirely with the war on used games/first sale doctrine. Want me to buy your $60 game? Make a better game. Budget appropriately so selling six million fuckin' copies still isn't enough and closes down your studio. Don't jerk me off with pre-order/Day 1 DLC that encourages me to just wait for the Deluxe/GOTY edition.
You wanna take digital codes out of other people's hands, you better go into everybody's house and make sure only the person who bought that DVD watched it, the rest of the family have to close their eyes and cover their ears. No free rides around here, starving artists need those royalties. Any of your friends let your borrow a book or send you a mixtape, spit in their general direction and say "I'll buy it myself, cocksucka, how dare you the ARTISTS man"
You wanna take digital codes out of other people's hands, you better go into everybody's house and make sure only the person who bought that DVD watched it, the rest of the family have to close their eyes and cover their ears. No free rides around here, starving artists need those royalties. Any of your friends let your borrow a book or send you a mixtape, spit in their general direction and say "I'll buy it myself, cocksucka, how dare you the ARTISTS man"
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Yeah, the argument for not selling or giving away the digital codes doesn't really work for me. You have a spare copy of that issue, may as well let someone else have that spare copy if you're never gonna use it.
my name is ed
Banned
I'm gonna side with Grand Harrier on this. I really don't think there's a moral issue with someone asking for a code. It's not like they're forcing anyone to give them one. I say it should be fine to ask in this thread. Does it really detract from conversation me than multiple sixisixisixis posts?
Btw, Grand Harrier, did you get my pm?
Btw, Grand Harrier, did you get my pm?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Hey look man, it's clear your heart's in the right place. Everybody has their reasons to do whatever and at least you're supporting comics in some way.
Most of this conversation has evolved into the philosophical. I think even if no one asked for codes in these threads every again, this line of conversation would still come up in some form or another.
As far as Irrational, I don't know. Levine doesn't strike me as the kind of dude to put dozens out on the street because he wants a change of pace. The Bioware docs left the company when they got bored, they didn't shut it down. I think the reality is that a millions selling game can no longer financially support a dev studio. And my hypothesis (likely unprovable) is that this is because consumers have become resistant to adequately compensating artists for their work just as games have become exponentially more expensive to produce.
As far as digital comics being priced lower, I refuse to believe that $3 of the $3.99 asking price goes to publishing and distribution. I just don't believe it. And this is where the core of this consumer shift is. I don't know where it comes from, but the crux of that argument is inherently devaluing the work of the creators of any work of art.
"Digital is too expensive! They're saving so much money by not printing it!"
I MEAN HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A WRITER AND ARTIST AND COLORIST AND LETTERER AND EDITOR ARE FUCKING WORTH???
Holy shit, sorry to yell, but it's so fucking infuriating.
And when it comes to games oh my god. Multiply that ratio by a billion. There are SO many legitimate ARTISTS who create a single game and about two people who actually press and print a goddamned disc.
Enough already, Planet Earth. You're lying to yourself and devaluing artistic output probably irrevocably.
Oh of COURSE your example is a comic featuring a female lead.
;D
my name is ed
Banned
There's an article out there by Jim Zub that breaks down the cost of a comic. distribution costs weren't 75 percent of it but something close to 40 percent iirc. It's pretty obvious most digital prices are set to match the cost of a physical copy.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Ok.
Obviously I think comics are worth the asking price. When I look at the kind of transparency Rucka has about raising the price of Lazarus so Lark can keep drawing it and pay rent, I really don't have a problem with equivalent digital pricing, especially since I own a pristine copy forever that doesn't take up any space in my house.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Batman Eternal's editor might not be the best at maintaining fluid continuity in his book but damn he's got a killer rolodex.
Shin Johnpv
Member
This is the problem with digital vs physical in a lot of mediums. The game publishers, comic companies etc don't want to piss off the BnM stores, and make digital the same price as physical, but it really shouldn't be that way. Personally I think Amazon does it right, kindle books are typically fairly cheaper than a physical copy. Consumers are getting screwed over plain and simple.
whatsinaname
Member
I have to disagree that there is something morally wrong with buying codes, just like how I disagree with people against used games. Do I purchase them myself, no. But every good is worth different things to different people at different times and we shouldn't judge. Do the corporations I help save tons of money ever wonder if I can make rent the next month? Do you consider if the coffee you bought on your way to work today morning was priced high enough to ensure that the farmer in Colombia can feed her children?
Extending that argument of creators not getting paid, is borrowing comics from the library "skeevy" also? Is me lending my comics to my friend "skeevy" also?
Extending that argument of creators not getting paid, is borrowing comics from the library "skeevy" also? Is me lending my comics to my friend "skeevy" also?
GrandHarrier
Member
Response sent. Sorry for missing it!
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Yeah I think the Kindle model is probably best, but within reason. That's the problem. Amazonk starts at fair and then just throttles the market with reductions. They don't give a shit about compensating artists, they just want to keep people locked into their ecosystem. Which, full disclosure, I am.
my name is ed
Banned
Do you have a link to where Rucka talks about this? Genuinely interested. I remember an interview with Gillen back before him and McKelvie blew up in which he said that delays were due to McKelvie needing to stop drawing every now and then to make money so he could eat. So yeah comics industry.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It was in the back matter of an issue. Laz is raising to 3.50 so they can continue to afford making the book.
And yeah, exactly, comics industry. And that's why when it comes to this medium specifically, I don't mind "overpaying" for digital. I support the stuff I believe in and/or want to continue to thrive. Same reason I subscribe to way too many labels on drip.fm when I could just listen to music on Spotify.
Same reason I argue about it in all caps sometimes. Everyone's free to do whatever they want, spend whatever they want (or don't want), or do whatever. I have my own (strong) opinions on it but I ain't gonna hate anyone for spending as much or as little as they want. Above even the importance of supporting artists is the democratic ideal of choice.
BrokenFiction
Member
Marvel, we need to have a talk about your flair.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56380
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56380
Omg, this thread. I can't. I just can't.
Let's start burning libraries down guys, a book borrowed is one less book bought. Or how about we start crucifying trade waiters and digital comic buyers? I mean, according to some creators, we're part of the problem of why their comic failed.
Seriously? And let's talk about how the idea of torrenting a comic is better then getting a digital code from a friend or buying it off eBay. Do you truly expect someone who torrented the comic to just delete it off their hard drive after they're done with it? I mean, c'mon.
I have given out digital codes in here, received them from others, shipped out paperbacks, etc, because I consider most of you friends, and this is exactly the same thing I would do if you were standing in front of me and telling me you're wanting to try out a particular book I have access to.
This entire argument is giving me a stomach ulcer. I should have just gone back to bed after reading the last two pages.
Let's start burning libraries down guys, a book borrowed is one less book bought. Or how about we start crucifying trade waiters and digital comic buyers? I mean, according to some creators, we're part of the problem of why their comic failed.
Seriously? And let's talk about how the idea of torrenting a comic is better then getting a digital code from a friend or buying it off eBay. Do you truly expect someone who torrented the comic to just delete it off their hard drive after they're done with it? I mean, c'mon.
I have given out digital codes in here, received them from others, shipped out paperbacks, etc, because I consider most of you friends, and this is exactly the same thing I would do if you were standing in front of me and telling me you're wanting to try out a particular book I have access to.
This entire argument is giving me a stomach ulcer. I should have just gone back to bed after reading the last two pages.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
ARMOR WARS!!!
Shit.
Shit.
Looks amazing :O
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Burning down libraries?!? wth
I worked at a library, I bring all my old comics to libraries, what is even happening here.
Books are returned to libraries, libraries are supported by late fees, etc, etc.
I can't even I don't even know with this
I never said people should be torrenting comics, btw, nor do I agree with that equivalency. I simply think if someone is interested enough in wanting a free code, they should just go and buy a book.
burning libraries holy shit
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Buying a digital code from ebay is way worse than on a one-to-one "I know you so am giving you this" basis.
I'm looking at this from a realistic standpoint. Why is giving money to a private individual more morally right than giving nobody any money? It's not. Just because you people are engaged in this practice it doesn't mean you have some kind of moral high ground here. Of course it's not right, even though it's something you do. If I'm called out on how much music I steal (as a musician even! For shame) I am likely to get defensive too.
Obviously me and Ben are in the minority (when are we not?) so you guys just do what you're going to do. But getting indignant about it when your hypocrisy is pointed out to you is meaningless. Pay the artists or don't, understand your choices.
Please no, I'm rather fond of my profession.
I was being facetious, and if you couldn't tell by the rest of the comments following that then I think you need more coffee this morning
And trying to point out how silly some of these arguments are about how not buying a book and getting it through other, legal means, is frowned upon.- Status