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Concord does something brilliant that I've heard exactly 0 people mention...

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
There is a huge problem in multiplayer gaming that very few (no one?) talks about...

PROBLEM: Great multiplayer games are horrendous at keeping friend groups together.

If you have 3 friends that play a certain multiplayer game on the regular, it is essentially a certainty that this group splits up due to the skill level of the group shredding. I have experienced this phenomenon in literally every MP game I've ever enjoyed. There's always one or two players that advance in skill level to such a degree that it causes friction with the low skill friends. Either the low skill players don't want to play with the high skill players because going 2 - 14 (KD) isn't fun for 2 hours, or the high skill players find other high skill friends to group up with, leaving their real friends behind.

Concord doesn't have SBMM because Concord was designed specifically to keep friend groups intact. Consider the following four points...

1. The hit boxes in Concord are unbelievably generous. If your cursor is anywhere close to the opponent, you're hitting them. This was a conscious design choice.

2. Concord provides players with a number of low skill floor heroes. Lark, Daw, Jabali, Emari, and Kyps can be played relatively effectively by players who can't aim.

3. The game doesn't punish teams for losing. You rank up and unlock cosmetics at exactly the same rate whether you win or lose. This means high skill players don't feel held back by their low skill teammates to the same degree.

4. The game leans heavily on Rock, Paper, Scissors design philosophy. That means low skill scissors players can beat high skill paper players when they bump into them in a 1v1.

Concord might be a commercial flop but this particular design philosopher should not go by unnoticed. SBMM is a poor solution to a very real problem and it's awesome that Firewalk attempted to address it with Concord. I hope we see more games tackle the issue going forward.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Welcome back duder
group-hug-golden-girls.gif
 

Generic

Member
There is a huge problem in multiplayer gaming that very few (no one?) talks about...

Great multiplayer games are horrendous at keeping friend groups together.

If you have 3 friends that play a certain multiplayer game on the regular, it is essentially a certainty that this group splits up due to the skill level of the group shredding. I have experienced this phenomenon in literally every MP game I've ever enjoyed. There's always one or two players that advance in skill level to such a degree that it causes friction with the low skill friends. Either the low skill players don't want to play with the high skill players because going 2 - 14 (KD) isn't fun for 2 hours, or the high skill players find other high skill friends to group up with, leaving their real friends behind.

Concord doesn't have SBMM because Concord was designed specifically to keep friend groups intact. Consider the following four points...

1. The hit boxes in Concord are unbelievably generous. If your cursor is anywhere close to the opponent, you're hitting them. This was a conscious design choice.

2. Concord provides players with a number of low skill floor heroes. Lark, Daw, Jabali, Emari, and Kyps can be played relatively effectively by players who can't aim.

3. The game doesn't punish teams for losing. You rank up and unlock cosmetics at exactly the same rate whether you win or lose. This means high skill players don't feel held back by their low skill teammates to the same degree.

4. The game leans heavily on Rock, Paper, Scissors design philosophy. That means low skill scissors players can beat high skill paper players when they bump into them in a 1v1.

Concord might be a commercial flop but this particular design philosopher should not go by unnoticed. SBMM is a poor solution to a very real problem and it's awesome that Firewalk attempted to address it with Concord. I hope we see more games tackle the issue going forward.
Paladins is kinda like this.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.

Concord does something brilliant that I've heard exactly 0 people mention...​


Turns every dollar Sony invested into this game into a shiny nickel
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
You don’t need to worry about friend groups being split up while playing concord because there aren’t enough active matches to split any groups up.
Yes yes, Concord is bad. We get it.

We have to elevate discussion to game design concepts or we'll remain cavemen for eternity. Cheerleading for Ws and Ls has been a dead horse for far too long. Let's level up.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
I mean yeah at this point if they split up a friend group they are basically splitting up half the community
 

jubei

Neo Member
There is a huge problem in multiplayer gaming that very few (no one?) talks about...

PROBLEM: Great multiplayer games are horrendous at keeping friend groups together.

If you have 3 friends that play a certain multiplayer game on the regular, it is essentially a certainty that this group splits up due to the skill level of the group shredding. I have experienced this phenomenon in literally every MP game I've ever enjoyed. There's always one or two players that advance in skill level to such a degree that it causes friction with the low skill friends. Either the low skill players don't want to play with the high skill players because going 2 - 14 (KD) isn't fun for 2 hours, or the high skill players find other high skill friends to group up with, leaving their real friends behind.

Concord doesn't have SBMM because Concord was designed specifically to keep friend groups intact. Consider the following four points...

1. The hit boxes in Concord are unbelievably generous. If your cursor is anywhere close to the opponent, you're hitting them. This was a conscious design choice.

2. Concord provides players with a number of low skill floor heroes. Lark, Daw, Jabali, Emari, and Kyps can be played relatively effectively by players who can't aim.

3. The game doesn't punish teams for losing. You rank up and unlock cosmetics at exactly the same rate whether you win or lose. This means high skill players don't feel held back by their low skill teammates to the same degree.

4. The game leans heavily on Rock, Paper, Scissors design philosophy. That means low skill scissors players can beat high skill paper players when they bump into them in a 1v1.

Concord might be a commercial flop but this particular design philosopher should not go by unnoticed. SBMM is a poor solution to a very real problem and it's awesome that Firewalk attempted to address it with Concord. I hope we see more games tackle the issue going forward.
Overwatch does this exact thing too, though. Maybe to a lesser extent, but it does it. I haven't played Concord but I know Overwatch hitboxes are excessive. Maybe it's much worse.
Apex Legends also does this with how absurd the aim assist is on console, but it's a bit different.
 

ChoosableOne

ChoosableAll
1. If your cursor is anywhere close to the opponent, you're hitting them.

2. Lark, Daw, Jabali, Emari, and Kyps can be played relatively effectively by players who can't aim.

3. The game doesn't punish teams for losing.
What more could I ask from a competitive multiplayer FPS?
 

Da1337Vinci

Neo Member
Creating system so that people independent on their skill level can keep up with eachother is not a bad design choice.

But incorporating it especially into multiplayer games is imo goes too much against the competitive nature of those games.

Concord should then rather try to be PVE or those PVP&PVE games
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Well if you put it like that it’s amazing this isn’t picked up by the hardcore hero shooter community.

Who doesn’t want to play a game where the hitboxes are so big you don’t even have to actually hit your target? How generous indeed.
 

Goalus

Member
Well if you put it like that it’s amazing this isn’t picked up by the hardcore hero shooter community.

Who doesn’t want to play a game where the hitboxes are so big you don’t even have to actually hit your target? How generous indeed.
Everyone is a winner!
 

DaichiChan

Neo Member
I would rather play Mario Wonders on self play mode if it's any near of the system that concord supports. Why do I should play a competition game if anyone wins at the same rate? It's a shooter, not Rayman.
 

Wildebeest

Member
The problem of people with no skill being able to feel they can still play has been solved. It is low ttk shooters like Call of Duty with massive overcompensating bullet magnetism.
 

Miles708

Member
I remember doing all night matchmaking matches with my group of friends all the time in Halo 2, 3 and Reach.

I've abandoned online gaming since then but it's weird to learn this is not a baseline standard feature anymore
 
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Wildebeest

Member
I remember doing all night matchmaking matches with my group of friends all the time in Halo 2, 3 and Reach.

I've abandoned online gaming since then but it's weird to learn this is not a baseline standard feature anymore
They started to let a lot of "competitive" people into the dev teams and let them make all the rules, in order to chase the esports hype.
 

Chukhopops

Member
I’m not sure how having a low skill ceiling, a rock paper scissors gameplay and no SBMM is a positive in any way.

In fact it feels like the opposite of what most popular MP games are doing: they are designed to have a high skill ceiling and execution requirements since feeling progress is a key motivation for MP games.

That being said I’ve never played Concord so I don’t know.
 

thief183

Member
There is a huge problem in multiplayer gaming that very few (no one?) talks about...

PROBLEM: Great multiplayer games are horrendous at keeping friend groups together.

If you have 3 friends that play a certain multiplayer game on the regular, it is essentially a certainty that this group splits up due to the skill level of the group shredding. I have experienced this phenomenon in literally every MP game I've ever enjoyed. There's always one or two players that advance in skill level to such a degree that it causes friction with the low skill friends. Either the low skill players don't want to play with the high skill players because going 2 - 14 (KD) isn't fun for 2 hours, or the high skill players find other high skill friends to group up with, leaving their real friends behind.

Concord doesn't have SBMM because Concord was designed specifically to keep friend groups intact. Consider the following four points...

1. The hit boxes in Concord are unbelievably generous. If your cursor is anywhere close to the opponent, you're hitting them. This was a conscious design choice.

2. Concord provides players with a number of low skill floor heroes. Lark, Daw, Jabali, Emari, and Kyps can be played relatively effectively by players who can't aim.

3. The game doesn't punish teams for losing. You rank up and unlock cosmetics at exactly the same rate whether you win or lose. This means high skill players don't feel held back by their low skill teammates to the same degree.

4. The game leans heavily on Rock, Paper, Scissors design philosophy. That means low skill scissors players can beat high skill paper players when they bump into them in a 1v1.

Concord might be a commercial flop but this particular design philosopher should not go by unnoticed. SBMM is a poor solution to a very real problem and it's awesome that Firewalk attempted to address it with Concord. I hope we see more games tackle the issue going forward.
How us all of this good in a competitive shooter? Apart from point 4 the others are exactly why I only play Hunt Showdown those days.
 
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