Good thing it already exists
Critics reflect on "To Pimp a Butterfly" a year after its release.
- Thread starter torre_avenue
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Battersea Power Station
Member
Great album. I'm thankful I get to hear it whenever I want.
torre_avenue
Banned
Well, something odd happened in the midst of me writing a rebuttal to some of the points that I wasn't getting the album's story.
I got the album's story.
But, I still have the same issue with the album. It doesn't connect with me the same way that GKMC did. I can appreciate the album better now, I guess, but it does bother me the only reason I get the album's story is due to reading Rap Genius interpretations. I guess there is something to be said if your album is dense and complicated, but it bothers me still because "untitled unmastered" was able to talk about the same issues but in a much more straight-forward and direct manner.
Continue on talking about the album, but thanks for helping me understand the album's story, GAF?
I got the album's story.
But, I still have the same issue with the album. It doesn't connect with me the same way that GKMC did. I can appreciate the album better now, I guess, but it does bother me the only reason I get the album's story is due to reading Rap Genius interpretations. I guess there is something to be said if your album is dense and complicated, but it bothers me still because "untitled unmastered" was able to talk about the same issues but in a much more straight-forward and direct manner.
Continue on talking about the album, but thanks for helping me understand the album's story, GAF?
SomedayTheFire
Member
It's a wonderful, wonderful album.
Cracklox
Member
Kinda agree with the OP. I've only spun it prob 3 times since release and I just can't get down with it, despite loving GKMC and to a lesser extent s80. Seems to be a lack of bumping beats as my chief concern. King Kunta and Blacker the Berry are nice though and I've added them to a playlist or 2.
This threads makes we want to give it another try though and hope that it 'clicks'
This threads makes we want to give it another try though and hope that it 'clicks'
Pinko Marx
Banned
Some of my favorites of all time didn't click with me until years after first listening.
thehypocrite
Member
This. I get inspired by listening to it.
sir_kevith
Member
I loved it. It's my favorite shit I heard from Kendrick but i have weird taste. I used to only listen to hip hop but then i got more into the production side and eventually i started listening more to originals where the samples came from and stuff. Following these artists that got sampled more than the hip hop stuff it inspired. Basically, ive been listening to old man music.
I feel like this album targeted people like me.
I feel like this album targeted people like me.
Most overrated album of last year. I think critics liked the concept of TPAB more than the actual music. It's well produced and Kendrick is obviously extremely talented lyrically, but the songwriting is weak as hell outside of a handful of tracks and as a whole, it's a just a meandering, self-indulgent, forgettable album. Reminds me of Random Access Memories, actually.
Nah, I think Thugger is a far better fit for electronic stuff.
Nah, I think Thugger is a far better fit for electronic stuff.
victreeb3l
Member
Uh ok?
RespectThySole
Member
I have a really strange relationship with this album. I played it nonstop for like a month or two and then I kinda fell out of love with it. It's a great album, but it's also one that I have to listen to in it's entirety to really get the most out of it.
Some of the songs sound a lot better in the context of the album than they do on their own.(Alright, I, For Free, For Sale, Hood Politics, etc.) It doesn't really have any songs that I outright dislike, but it doesn't really have the same type of endlessly replayable highs that GKMC does. (Money Trees, MAAD City, Sing About Me, BDKMV, etc.)
There are a number of songs on TPAB that I originally thought would definitely be a part of my regular rotation, but it's really become more of a headphones album for me. It might be blasphemous to say this, but I think I like what the album stands for more than I actually like listening to the individual songs themselves.
Nope.
Some of the songs sound a lot better in the context of the album than they do on their own.(Alright, I, For Free, For Sale, Hood Politics, etc.) It doesn't really have any songs that I outright dislike, but it doesn't really have the same type of endlessly replayable highs that GKMC does. (Money Trees, MAAD City, Sing About Me, BDKMV, etc.)
There are a number of songs on TPAB that I originally thought would definitely be a part of my regular rotation, but it's really become more of a headphones album for me. It might be blasphemous to say this, but I think I like what the album stands for more than I actually like listening to the individual songs themselves.
Nope.
Junior Mint
Member
Listened to it twice. Will probably never listen to it again.
GKMC I still listen to regularly.
GKMC I still listen to regularly.
I think the album's density can be a legitimate criticism, but I also think that whether you think density is a bad thing is entirely a personal view.
To each their own.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I remember when I first listened to it that I really did not like it at all. Now more listens later and i appreciate a few tracks but I still really don't enjoy it as much as I would like to. GKMC remains the much better album in my opinion and I mean that especially musically. I just dig the production a shitload more on that, I also really can't enjoy his weird voices on TPAB on several tracks. Lamar clearly likes to experiment with his music, especially noticeable on that album and I don't necessarily need that. Worse I guess is that other TDE members are following suit so to speak, with the weird voices. Jay Rock for example on several songs on his 2015 album. I seriously hope that was just a one time thing because that guy kills it when he just simply raps in a normal way. The way he came up basically.
But when I hear that weird voice on Easy Bake, The Ways and another track I forgot.... I just think to myself, dude please don't do this.
But when I hear that weird voice on Easy Bake, The Ways and another track I forgot.... I just think to myself, dude please don't do this.
Spine_Ripper
Member
...I don't even know where to begin. TPAB is nothing like MBDTF and vice versa.
Kendrick went Electric Circus on his 2nd album. I hope he organically comes back to the sound of GKMC at some point in his career before it's too late and it's considered a corny gimmick to stay relevant. Not knocking TPAB tho, just so not my hype, save for a few standouts. To me, GKMC front to back, still goes.
RespectThySole
Member
Real. That's my favorite too.
Kendrick's best album in my view, no question about it. Having listened to the entirety of Good Kid the other day, as well as parts of Section.80 and Overly Dedicated, it's solidified To Pimp as his best work so far for me. Like a few others I wasn't feeling it on an emotional level, and while I still can't relate to it as much as the previous albums, I recognise that it achieves higher highs in pretty much everything. GKMC's narrative doesn't hold up to TPAB's wider discussion of society.
I just think coming off of GKMC (still my favorite and a masterpiece) Kendrick could have come with something going with a similar vibe and gone away a winner. Instead he took a left turn sonically and completely nailed it. The instrumentation alone could be a special album, but Kendrick fits each song like a glove. Kendricks songwriting is one thing, but I honestly love the way he changes his voice to accommodate an individual song. He creates multiple identites with his voices, Institutionalized for example would be a much lesser track without that vocal adjustment.
The album is massive in scope but he keeps it a very personal tale. The album is about personal depression/struggles, racial conflict, racial identity, history and celebrity. I honestly feel the album tackles these subjects with a fresh sound and a heartfelt honesty most other artists cannot replicate. Especially at the level Kendrick is at, technically speaking.
Quick thoughts.
The album is massive in scope but he keeps it a very personal tale. The album is about personal depression/struggles, racial conflict, racial identity, history and celebrity. I honestly feel the album tackles these subjects with a fresh sound and a heartfelt honesty most other artists cannot replicate. Especially at the level Kendrick is at, technically speaking.
Quick thoughts.
This and Momma are probably my favorites.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Real mess of an album. Every song has about twelve hooks too many, the motif of the gradually-assembled spoken word poem does not work because, to be blunt, the poem is bad, and like with GKMC, Kendrick's blunt preachiness grates on subsequent listens.
I've seen you mention the hooks before but I still don't really follow, can you give an example of what you mean? Take Wesley's Theory for example, it has a clear verse-pre chorus-chorus structure. TPAB isn't by any means a perfect album structurally, but I don't think the number of hooks is where you'd begin in a critique. Maybe it could contribute to a disjointed feeling but even then I'd say other factors are more significant in that regard. Obviously you're being hyperbolic here but I assume you have an actual point behind it.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
Kendrick's best album by a mile. It's still in my daily rotation. absolutely one of my favorite albums ever, of any genre.
Album has a massive scope but Kendrick and all the guys who had their hand in the project manage to craft something that's deals with heavy themes without ever being heavy handed, manages to make me question rather than judge, It's so personal it's hard not to find ways to relate to the highs and lows.
production is absolutely amazing, the samples are entwined masterfully, the beats and instrumentation full of character. Wesley's Theory is definitely one of the best intros I've ever heard, it captured the essence of the project and set the tone for the rest of the album. Mortal Man might be Kendrick's best song, some of those lines hit hard. If that Pac interview was done by anybody else it would have been corny as shit and some of the most beautiful instrumentation accompanied it.
Kendrick could have easily kept the same modern production and did a GKMC 2 but he went all the way left and struck gold.
As far as I'm concerned It's up there with the best of the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Gil Scot Heron, Marvin Gaye etc.
Album has a massive scope but Kendrick and all the guys who had their hand in the project manage to craft something that's deals with heavy themes without ever being heavy handed, manages to make me question rather than judge, It's so personal it's hard not to find ways to relate to the highs and lows.
production is absolutely amazing, the samples are entwined masterfully, the beats and instrumentation full of character. Wesley's Theory is definitely one of the best intros I've ever heard, it captured the essence of the project and set the tone for the rest of the album. Mortal Man might be Kendrick's best song, some of those lines hit hard. If that Pac interview was done by anybody else it would have been corny as shit and some of the most beautiful instrumentation accompanied it.
Kendrick could have easily kept the same modern production and did a GKMC 2 but he went all the way left and struck gold.
As far as I'm concerned It's up there with the best of the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Gil Scot Heron, Marvin Gaye etc.
It's narrative isn't very different from GKMC's. It's just a continuation, GKMC was tales of his hometown and how it shaped him, in TPAB, it's him navigating the success. It's "story" isn't really hard to follow. It's about Kendrick's struggle with fame,wealth and success and also commentary on the black struggle to operate in that world. The bits of the poem that are played throughout just serve to set the tone for the tracks that follow and he puts a neat bow on it by recanting the entire poem to pac in Mortal Man. The album is dense with it's subject matter but I mean, the themes for the tracks are pretty darn straight forward.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Its fantastic. I didnt like it at first. Grew on my. I bump a lot of that shit constantly. I like GKMC more. The sound is more the type of production I'm into. But man, some of TPAB just goes so hard when you get into it. I really wonder what full studio production number 3 will be.
Vicetrailia
Banned
His best album is THAN no question.
torre_avenue
Banned
I got the whole over-arching story behind it, I've gotten that and the themes for a while. I'm talking about the exact songs that correspond to story beats. "King Kunta" is his arrogant declaration he runs the game, "Institutionalized" is the song that shows the cracks between who he's become and the people he knew, "These Walls" is about his abuse of power, "u" is when he feels remorse for his actions and guilt for other things, "Alright" is his moment of faith, "Momma" is his trip to Africa, everything after that is Kendrick as a new man and his thoughts on the world.
To me it kind of feels hit or miss. I'm really stunned by the amount of praise it gets, because I feel like it's far from a masterpiece. There are some great things on it, but it's just not consistent enough. It also kind of falls into that weird space that a lot of rap does for me. I don't know whether to take it seriously or not, because one minute he's repeating "this dick ain't free" more times than I care to really listen to and the next he's got some poignant points about race relations or using his fame. So, it just sits in this weird spot for me. If it was all goof then I feel like I could get into a good mindset for it, or if it was all serious I feel like I could praise it more.
I really like King Kunta, Alright, How Much a Dollar Cost, and The Blacker the Berry, but the rest is kinda meh. I really only listen to albums that I want to listen to every track and rarely even listen to one where I don't like a single track (It just throws me off that much), so it's hard to give this enough spins.
I really like King Kunta, Alright, How Much a Dollar Cost, and The Blacker the Berry, but the rest is kinda meh. I really only listen to albums that I want to listen to every track and rarely even listen to one where I don't like a single track (It just throws me off that much), so it's hard to give this enough spins.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
Then I'm confused on this quote in the OP
Unless you were hoping for a straightforward story telling 'beginning-middle-end' narrative? because none of Kendrick's albums are like that. Nor do I think was what he set out to do. What exactly did you find in coherent? You pretty much laid out the intent of his tracks, the lyrics are pretty laserfocused on the themes of the tracks.Also, I wouldn't say everything after Momma is Kendrick as a "new man". more him reflecting.
edit: Just want to make it clear, I'm not saying that the lyrics or songs didn't/couldn't connect or resonate with you. There's no criticism for that. Just wasn't understanding you seeing the album's story or message as incoherent.
theignoramus
Member
The hell.....Thugger would erase every shred of the political commentary that gave TPAB the vitality and immediacy it had, its throwback style of production (no modern trap beats) notwithstanding.
Fuck that. There's more than enough lanes in hip hop for Thugger's style of music, rap music needs Kendrick's poetic vision.
How Much a Dollar Cost
Alright
Wesley's Theory
Blacker the Berry
King Kunta
Yeah, Im sure those songs would retain all that biting cultural commentary with Young Thug all over it.
I liked my listen of the album when it came out, I tried giving it additional listens... but I haven't had a desire to listen again after those follow-up attempts.
Reminds me of a movie like King's Speech or There Will Be Blood: objectively great performances in a great movie worth watching... but after having watched once, no desire to watch again.
I want to like the album more in the way I enjoy consuming music -- listening to songs on repeat, on blast -- but I can't.
Reminds me of a movie like King's Speech or There Will Be Blood: objectively great performances in a great movie worth watching... but after having watched once, no desire to watch again.
I want to like the album more in the way I enjoy consuming music -- listening to songs on repeat, on blast -- but I can't.
Uno Venova
Banned
First album I bought I vinyl for. The best Hip-Hop album of the decade.
Absolutely, his criticisms about racism in America will be relevant for decades to come.
I really like it now more than when I first heard it. The first few times I heard it I thought that it was really disjointed, that the songs weren't really connected on anything but by being in the album. I kind of stopped listening to it after the first three or four times.
After a few weeks I put it back in and listened a few more times. For some reason it seemed more complete after a few weeks, didn't seem to be nearly as disjointed, seemed to have thread sort of joining the pieces. I noticed that there were evils and he was recognizing them, and there were temptations that he recognized as Lucy later in the album. And by the end of the album he is done explaining a portion of his life. Even the Tupac interview feels like it belongs there by the end, imo.
I do like GKMC more, but on there the last song I really felt misplaced. It makes sense, but it just has always felt wrong to me to be there when I hear it. On TPAB I have come to feel that the whole album goes together a little better though.
After a few weeks I put it back in and listened a few more times. For some reason it seemed more complete after a few weeks, didn't seem to be nearly as disjointed, seemed to have thread sort of joining the pieces. I noticed that there were evils and he was recognizing them, and there were temptations that he recognized as Lucy later in the album. And by the end of the album he is done explaining a portion of his life. Even the Tupac interview feels like it belongs there by the end, imo.
I do like GKMC more, but on there the last song I really felt misplaced. It makes sense, but it just has always felt wrong to me to be there when I hear it. On TPAB I have come to feel that the whole album goes together a little better though.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
It's a monumental hip-hop album. Despite what any detractors might wish were true, it is and will largely be heralded as an essential hip-hop album. It's a celebration of black music, a showcase of Kendrick's talents, and a poignant statement on the social issues of our day.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
A masterpiece. One of the greatest rap albums I've ever heard.
torre_avenue
Banned
When I wrote the OP, I still didn't understand the beat-by-beat story of the record, but I knew that the overall narrative of the album was Kendrick finding himself. That's why I wrote it down. It was after I saw responses coming in that I took another look at the Genius page of the album while listening to it. It was then the story "clicked" for me. I got what each song meant in the context of the larger narrative of K.dot finding his way after his success. Simply put, the OP is what I thought of each song in the context of the larger story before and the post after that hopefully shows I now understand how each song contributes to the larger narrative arc of the album. It's like a before and after. I should probably edit the OP then.
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