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[DarkHeartedKill]

Well, that was kind of a bad example because if every Street Fighter character had the same stats and all the moves, every match would be a pure test of skill and using the right move at the right time, simply being able to outplay your opponent by being better than them at the game.

Which is kind of true for Dark Souls as well, in PvP. If you are a better player than someone else, you can still beat them in PvP even if they had a 99 in every stat (assuming no healing). You would just have to be straight better at dodging, parrying and timing your attacks than they are, and would have to play perfectly for quite a while as you get through their sizable health pool and armor. This is not how it should be, but possible.

Of course, this kind of doesn't work in all cases and it severely narrows the amount of viable items, which is where the real problem lies I think. If you can have a high enough SL to do full damage and move full speed and still wear full Havel's why wouldn't you. It used to be a tradeoff because you couldn't have full defensive stats and offensive stats, so you would see glass cannons as well as tanks, but now everyone is just best of both worlds. Skill still determines the outcome, but it is definitely less fun when everyone can have it all.

Imagine having to fight someone with 99 in all stats, Third Dragon Ring, Life Ring +3, Blue Seal. That would give the guy 3,188 health. Now imagine if phy def and poise worked like it's supposed to and he had Havels plus Smelters Helm. He'd have 138 poise. 1345 PHY, 1207 Strike, 1484 Slash, and 1347 Pierce DEFs. GG heh.

 

[Ruuppa]

It's not even just being able to outrun a cheetah while wearing full Havels, but you also gain all the benefits from being a fucking Archmage to boot, if you just level all the time. Once you've hit all the softcaps, you're gonna have to spend those points somewhere, and what gives you the most bang for your buck? Magic. This is why the curse of Havelmancers is such a damn big thing on latter tiers: There's no disadvantage to it.

If you don't keep leveling to keep in pace with these guys, you won't be able to counter their stuff: You can't keep multiple weapons on you because Equip Weight is an issue, their superbuffed weapons and magic will wreck you if they get even one hit in, your 2 attacks will be worth less than their one etc.

Just being really skilled is one thing, and if you can hack it, good! You're skilled. But obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and not everyone will go for that minmax bullshit you see a lot on latter SM tiers.

Co-op and PVP in DkS2 are pretty hard to get into if you don't know the meta, I agree with that, and SM did relieve some pain from that. But it also broke the need for builds, so PVP quality suffers immensely, even though the quantity increases.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

It's not even just being able to outrun a cheetah while wearing full Havels, but you also gain all the benefits from being a fucking Archmage to boot, if you just level all the time. Once you've hit all the softcaps, you're gonna have to spend those points somewhere, and what gives you the most bang for your buck? Magic. This is why the curse of Havelmancers is such a damn big thing on latter tiers: There's no disadvantage to it.

If you don't keep leveling to keep in pace with these guys, you won't be able to counter their stuff: You can't keep multiple weapons on you because Equip Weight is an issue, their superbuffed weapons and magic will wreck you if they get even one hit in, your 2 attacks will be worth less than their one etc.

Just being really skilled is one thing, and if you can hack it, good! You're skilled. But obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and not everyone will go for that minmax bullshit you see a lot on latter SM tiers.

Co-op and PVP in DkS2 are pretty hard to get into if you don't know the meta, I agree with that, and SM did relieve some pain from that. But it also broke the need for builds, so PVP quality suffers immensely, even though the quantity increases.

Honestly, I just keep leveling so I can help my host defeat the boss easily, my build, while it is a meta, is used for the good of Co-Op, if someone invades me I'm not gonna change my armour and weapon for them.

What I think they should have done is keep PvP at SLs and Co-Op at SM, it's the best of both worlds. PvPers can stay at a certain range and be happy, and co-opers can co-op for eternity.

 

[Booshka]

Defense scaling is so bonkers in Dark Souls 2 that you can't just out-skill every high level player on a lower leveled build. You could do that in Demon's and Dark 1, but in Dark 2, your weapons and spells do far less damage then you expect them to against overleveled monster builds.

 

[Ruuppa]

Honestly, I just keep leveling so I can help my host defeat the boss easily, my build, while it is a meta, is used for the good of Co-Op, if someone invades me I'm not gonna change my armour and weapon for them.

What I think they should have done is keep PvP at SLs and Co-Op at SM, it's the best of both worlds. PvPers can stay at a certain range and be happy, and co-opers can co-op for eternity.

That.. I would have been happy about. I would have been happy with SM too, if it was only limited to NG, and SL on NG+ and onwards. So many ways to fix it, but we're never gonna see any of them.

Defense scaling is so bonkers in Dark Souls 2 that you can't just out-skill every high level player on a lower leveled build. You could do that in Demon's and Dark 1, but in Dark 2, your weapons and spells do far less damage then you expect them to against overleveled monster builds.

At least you can't get "LOL DAMAGE IMMUNITY LOL" for Physical damage.

 

[Orochinagis]

Are you surprised that the meta level has basically become the point that you can get all the stats you want to their soft caps in a focused build? Because I sure as hell am not. Once they de-linked PvP from actual SL, I pretty much assumed tons of people would just push their level as high as possible to try to have an advantage. It would probably be better for the game if the SL cap was lower, but it will never happen unless you make SL part of matchmaking again.

Pretty much you can be any build and use any gear with those caps and easily farm soul vessels to change your strats like it is a breeze right?

 

[Mistel]

At least you can't get "LOL DAMAGE IMMUNITY LOL" for Physical damage.

Back when buff stacking was around you could get pretty close to that.

 

[Ruuppa]

Back when buff stacking was around you could get pretty close to that.

Oh yeah, those were good times. You could never reach total immunity even with the cheesiest of cheese because of how phys def works, but close enough to be practically immortal.

I still can't fathom how they thought a scaling defense value that can actually reach 100% was a good idea.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I think they did it because such a large portion of the community decided to have a SL cut off point. Which meant if you were to goo above that and wanted to PvP your chances to invade were really low. Also it caused Co-Op summons to be really difficult because if you were overleveled for a boss, well GG you're not going to get summoned. I guess they also wanted to negate builds, have people be able to play how they want(be super high leveled and still get invaded/invade, for example).

I don't remember anyone saying SL cut off point was a bad thing, it was like a natural water level imo.

I also remember messing around with bottomless box glitch characters in DS1, and once leveling a character up to max. I was in the Burg getting the same PvP connection rates as any other SL, it was boring as fuck but interesting since I expected to not get any matches at all. So obviously people were leveling way beyond any meta that the community set because I experienced it for myself.

As for co-op I still never have problems, just a few weeks ago I did a run and it felt very much like old school DS1 co-op. I was in decent ranges all throughout but I distinctly recall being in areas way outside accepted level range and still getting invaded or summoned - Depths and TotG spring to mind, high and low SL respectively.

Soul Memory was just wrong and harmful point blank. I'll never see it any other way because my continued experience proves so.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Just got to Iron Keep, and it's like Anor Londos archers all over again. Sooooo annoying!
Now where's this god damn ember already!

 

[Deified Data]

This is what turned me off DS2 PvP, I've stayed away from it almost since the start. I just don't understand what the point is if you don't have builds based on stats. It's like giving every Street Fighter character every move and the same stats - why even bother, it's just cosmetic. The whole point of PvP is to pit one advantage/disadvantage against another, it has to be a game of chess otherwise there's no point - Souls PvP has already a mess of reasons to make it unbalanced and situational. Making stats irrelevant KILLED PvP for me.

This is pretty much what killed the longevity of the game to me. In some odd way, conceiving builds was always the most fun I had with the series. I liked running shit past the character builder and seeing how it pans out. Now? Everyone's SL 200+ so why bother?

 

[strafer]

Man, look at my shield, I'm ready to woop some ass!

Also the Old Dragonslayer boss was pretty easy; block, move right, stab, block, move right, stab.

Roll when he does his magic thing.

 

[neoism]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

http://www.bandainamcogames.eu/news/2014/09/22/dark-souls-ii-s-crown-of-the-ivory-king-moves-back-to-september-30/4684

 

[Ruuppa]

Man, look at my shield, I'm ready to woop some ass!

Also the Old Dragonslayer boss was pretty easy; block, move right, stab, block, move right, stab.

Roll when he does his magic thing.

You just described the strategy for 90% of the bosses

 

[Laurentius]

Man, look at my shield, I'm ready to woop some ass!

Tower shields can be pretty fun. The stability is awesome, so you can absorb hits like crazy. I never use shields these days, but if I did, I would be more prone to use a tower shield in DS2 than DS1. Since parrying in DS2 sucks compared to DS1, I wouldn't feel like I was missing out on that.

Also the Old Dragonslayer boss was pretty easy; block, move right, stab, block, move right, stab.

Roll when he does his magic thing.

You're just lucky he didn't have Snorlax with him. =P

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Just got to Iron Keep, and it's like Anor Londos archers all over again. Sooooo annoying!
Now where's this god damn ember already!

Spoiler

From the bonfire go and kill the first two Alonne Knights guarding the door, then kill the two near the fire breathing Minotaur head, pas them kill the three dudes in that room. When you get to the open area dodge the archers while you kill the first Alonne Knight infront of you. You can then jump down to another platform where there will be another knight, kill him and pull the lever. DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR if you value life. Then go back up and try to kill the Alonne Knight on the bridge without getting knocked off by the archer. From there jump to the platform, kill the Captain Alonne Knight guarding the fog door. Then turn around and try to make the jump to where that chest is when you do, on your right you should see a broken stair case with a corpse on the end. That's where you want to try to get to since the ember is on him. Be careful, you can either under do he jump and fall into the lava, or over do the jump and roll into lava. Good luck!

I don't remember anyone saying SL cut off point was a bad thing, it was like a natural water level imo.

I also remember messing around with bottomless box glitch characters in DS1, and once leveling a character up to max. I was in the Burg getting the same PvP connection rates as any other SL, it was boring as fuck but interesting since I expected to not get any matches at all. So obviously people were leveling way beyond any meta that the community set because I experienced it for myself.

As for co-op I still never have problems, just a few weeks ago I did a run and it felt very much like old school DS1 co-op. I was in decent ranges all throughout but I distinctly recall being in areas way outside accepted level range and still getting invaded or summoned - Depths and TotG spring to mind, high and low SL respectively.

Soul Memory was just wrong and harmful point blank. I'll never see it any other way because my continued experience proves so.

I experienced the opposite with co-op. Invaders invaded infinitetly up, so that didn't change for me, and I never invaded so I wouldn't know how that would have worked out for me. I had a character who was level 300 which I ended up using to punish twinks in the Undead Parish. With my lvl 300 character, however, I'd wait hours and not get summoned(even with DScFix) and I'd also never see summon signs :/.

 

[v1perz53]

I experienced the opposite with co-op. Invaders invaded infinitetly up, so that didn't change for me, and I never invaded so I wouldn't know how that would have worked out for me. I had a character who was level 300 which I ended up using to punish twinks in the Undead Parish. With my lvl 300 character, however, I'd wait hours and not get summoned(even with DScFix) and I'd also never see summon signs :/.

Jesus a SL 300 character in DkS 1 is no joke. My NG++ character for the platinum isn't even 150 I don't think.

 

[strafer]

Is there something like this in Dark souls?

Had to remove my gloves to be able to run.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Jesus a SL 300 character in DkS 1 is no joke. My NG++ character for the platinum isn't even 150 I don't think.

He was NG+++ I think, and I started out as helping people with Orn & Smough, got about 2.5mill souls from that. I also got tons of souls trying to get Twinkling Titnite, Titnite Chunks, etc. But yeah, lvl 300 in DS 1 was an accomplishment that took 200+ hours. Now I have like 3 characters above lvl 200 with 100 hours on each, more or less.

Is there something like this in Dark souls?

Had to remove my gloves to be able to run.

Nothing that insanely OP, but there are two rings that increase your equip load.

 

[Laurentius]

Is there something like this in Dark souls?

Had to remove my gloves to be able to run.

Get yourself the Royal Soldiers Ring in No Man's Wharf. It will increase your carrying capacity. Also, level up your Vitality.

 

[@Wreck]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

http://www.bandainamcogames.eu/news/2014/09/22/dark-souls-ii-s-crown-of-the-ivory-king-moves-back-to-september-30/4684

a bummer

was looking forward to it on my day off

 

[Mistel]

Just got to Iron Keep, and it's like Anor Londos archers all over again. Sooooo annoying!
Now where's this god damn ember already!

Infusions are bit of a double edged sword really considering all things.

I still can't fathom how they thought a scaling defense value that can actually reach 100% was a good idea.

Beats me too I cant think why either.

You're just lucky he didn't have Snorlax with him. =P

Would of spawned as a red phantom knowing the boss fights in the one. Or maybe budget smough.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Oh yeah, those were good times. You could never reach total immunity even with the cheesiest of cheese because of how phys def works, but close enough to be practically immortal.

I still can't fathom how they thought a scaling defense value that can actually reach 100% was a good idea.

Wait...WAT? How do you even? How does one achieve this...it's uh...for a friend.

 

[neoism]

It's incredibly situational but I absolutely love doing this after an opponent falls to their death:

http://webmup.com/00KR3/vid.webm

LULZ thats awesome.. the patch notes are even more saddening glad for the fixes but meh... :*( damn you FROM I knew the 24th date was fishy..

 

[Laurentius]

You just described the strategy for 90% of the bosses

That's one thing I loved about Fume Knight. His moveset seemed specifically designed to screw over the whole "keep moving to the right" strategy that works on a lot of the bosses.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

The one thing I truly, truly miss about DaS1. Rag dolling ;_;. R.I.P Ragdolling, I will forever remember you.

 

[ilium]

Hosted my first fight Club today. Was quite fun actually
Only 1 out of 10 summons was wearing Havel at max Tier which was nice.
Got invaded by arbiters sometimes and none of them seemed to be interested in doing FC with us so everyone chased them down heh.
Made couple mio souls and the needed 30mio to get to SL400 don't seem so far away now so i might level up some more.

 

[SoldnerKei]

wait so, dlc is not comming out tomorrow? :c

It's incredibly situational but I absolutely love doing this after an opponent falls to their death:

http://webmup.com/00KR3/vid.webm

oh my gawd! that was pretty hilarious hehe

 

[Laurentius]

Hosted my first fight Club today. Was quite fun actually
Only 1 out of 10 summons was wearing Havel at max Tier which was nice.
Got invaded by arbiters sometimes and none of them seemed to be interested in doing FC with us so everyone chased them down heh.
Made couple mio souls and the needed 30mio to get to SL400 don't seem so far away now so i might level up some more.

You had warmth, I presume? =P

The other day I got summoned to a fight club, but the host wasn't using warmth. On top of that, he had on the butterfly set and would poison whoever was sitting on the sidelines. Made me mad, so I golf swung him into the lava with my Greatsword.

 

[neoism]

You just described the strategy for 90% of the bosses

 

[ilium]

You had warmth, I presume? =P

Pff yes of course.
I also decorated the area with prism stones so everyone felt homey... :3

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

You had warmth, I presume? =P

The other day I got summoned to a fight club, but the host wasn't using warmth. On top of that, he had on the butterfly set and would poison whoever was sitting on the sidelines. Made me mad, so I golf swung him into the lava with my Greatsword.

Please tell me you recorded that. That sounds hilarious.

 

[Laurentius]

Please tell me you recorded that. That sounds hilarious.

Nope. =( I really should have.

The best part of UGSs in PVP is the golf swing. So satisfying when you fling somebody off a cliff or into lava.

It's actually kind of fun when a fight club host is being a dick, because I don't feel bad about doing that. They never see it coming.

 

[Booshka]

Nope. =( I really should have.

The best part of UGSs in PVP is the golf swing. So satisfying when you fling somebody off a cliff or into lava.

It's actually kind of fun when a fight club host is being a dick, because I don't feel bad about doing that. They never see it coming.

GOLFSWING

By Elajjaz

 

[Orochinagis]

You just described the strategy for 90% of the bosses

Bed of chaos master of trolling

 

[strafer]

No mans wharf is some fucking bullshit, those duel wielding motherfuckers... ouch.

Died like 8 times from various ambushes. :/

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

No mans wharf is some fucking bullshit, those duel wielding motherfuckers... ouch.

Died like 8 times from various ambushes. :/

I recently noticed something about the boss there.

Spoiler

The arena fills up with water, and it fills up too the point where you're like waist high in water making you move much slower. I never noticed before because I kill him so quickly usually. Seems like they are really starting to make you have a disadvantage when you prolong a fight :/

 

[Orochinagis]

No mans wharf is some fucking bullshit, those duel wielding motherfuckers... ouch.

Died like 8 times from various ambushes. :/

That area becomes pretty easy when you light the torches with the pharros key

 

[v1perz53]

No mans wharf is some fucking bullshit, those duel wielding motherfuckers... ouch.

Died like 8 times from various ambushes. :/

No Man's Wharf is one of those areas that is super deadly your first time through because of ambushes and surprises, but becomes super quick on subsequent playthroughs, which I really appreciate. Once you know where all enemies are, you can attack many of them before they even get up to attack you. Also torches help as Orochinagis said (your avatar change threw me off for a while).

One thing about the area, explore it thoroughly, there are some really useful hidden things throughout, some that will make things a lot easier once you have them (like the equip load ring which I am assuming is why you went there).

I recently noticed something about the boss there.

Spoiler

The arena fills up with water, and it fills up too the point where you're like waist high in water making you move much slower. I never noticed before because I kill him so quickly usually. Seems like they are really starting to make you have a disadvantage when you prolong a fight :/

Whoa totally never noticed that! That is cool I guess.. I did notice the water recently though since I saw I got the extra damage from Lightning Spears on wet enemies, didn't know

Spoiler

it rose over time

though.

 

[Zocano]

What I think they should have done is keep PvP at SLs and Co-Op at SM, it's the best of both worlds. PvPers can stay at a certain range and be happy, and co-opers can co-op for eternity.

As far as I remember, the whole point of Soul Memory was to keep geared-the-fuck-out PVP players to ruin regular progression people's day.

New guy starts out playing and gets invaded by a SL1 fool that's geared the fuck out and just constantly gets rekt.

This was the worst part of the PVP side of things in Dark Souls that they tried to fix. Sadly it broke a bunch of the actual end-game PVP.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

As far as I remember, the whole point of Soul Memory was to keep geared-the-fuck-out PVP players to ruin regular progression people's day.

New guy starts out playing and gets invaded by a SL1 fool that's geared the fuck out and just constantly gets rekt.

This was the worst part of the PVP side of things in Dark Souls that they tried to fix. Sadly it broke a bunch of the actual end-game PVP.

Well, that's why they added stat requirements for armour, as far as I can remember. But yeah that was annoying, twinkers were the bane of my existence. However, didn't they still fix that with only being able to buy Orbs in NG+?

 

[HK-47]

Ascetic tower of prayer go to the wooden chest in dragon sanctum pick up the six upgrade materials and the ascetic so you can repeat it.

Does ascetic reset the sanctum knights armor?

 

[NEO0MJ]

That's one thing I loved about Fume Knight. His moveset seemed specifically designed to screw over the whole "keep moving to the right" strategy that works on a lot of the bosses.

Yeah, they even made him hold his main weapon with his left hand to make sure of that. Heck even if you try to avoid by moving to the left he can do the same move with the straight sword in his right hand.

Does ascetic reset the sanctum knights armor?

I don't think it would do that.

 

[Ruuppa]

No mans wharf is some fucking bullshit, those duel wielding motherfuckers... ouch.

Died like 8 times from various ambushes. :/

The enemies there are a huge change from previous encounters in Heide and Forest of the Giants: Quick dudes with shields, ranged attacks and long, fast damaging combo attacks. Taking the full combo to the face from either the sword'n'board or the scimitar guys will smack most of your health away. And they throw a lot of those guys at you at once. Possibly the hardest early area in the game on your first time through.

Yeah, they even made him hold his main weapon with his left hand to make sure of that. Heck even if you try to avoid by moving to the left he can do the same move with the straight sword in his right hand.

If you have a proper shield and are using the Baneful Bird ring, circlestrafing is still very much in the vogue for him. Those strafing punishing attacks were a really nice add-on, and he's also really damn mobile with his hops during the fight. Makes you rethink your strategy from previous bosses.

 

[HK-47]

Hey NEO you still have those ruin sentinel leggings?

 

[emperorspride188]

Played this hundreds of hours and even platinumed it. But I wasnt paying much attention to story and lore as I felt there aren't many interesting little clues and details like in previous games.

Are there any good videos explaining lore, characters and story?

 

[Zocano]

Played this hundreds of hours and even platinumed it. But I wasnt paying much attention to story and lore as I felt there aren't many interesting little clues and details like in previous games.

Are there any good videos explaining lore, characters and story?

Shame.

Game's got a more interesting overall storyline than the predecessor.

Start with Vaati's Ending/Overall Story stuff. It's good and got little speculation (unlike his other Dark Souls 2 ones).

Here's the Story Explanation video of Vaati's.

edit: Also wait, if you don't pay attention then no shit will it be less interesting. Sounds like you just went in inherently skeptical and it colored your opinion harshly.

edit edit: Also I don't get what you mean by interesting clues/details. The game's story stuff works pretty much like the last two games. The only reasonable complaint (that I agree with) is that the start is slightly less guided. You know you have to go down for a bell and up for a bell and then the rest is pretty straight forward.

The start of 2 is just "get some souls, yo" and much less clear about what your goal is. Then it funnels down and gets more interesting as it funnels and gets more focused. There are, of course, cool things about each area, about the two Bell Covenant lovers, about Mytha, the Old Iron King, about Pharros and Rotten, all sorts of shit just like Dark Souls 1.

It really does come off as just lack of care for it without giving it a chance.

 

[Ruuppa]

Played this hundreds of hours and even platinumed it. But I wasnt paying much attention to story and lore as I felt there aren't many interesting little clues and details like in previous games.

Are there any good videos explaining lore, characters and story?

Check out VaatiVidya. I think ENB also has some videos about it, but a lot less than he had about DkS1. DaveControlLive apparently has lore videos as well, but I haven't seen anything of his so take that as you will.

-snip-

Harsh.

 

[emperorspride188]

Check out VaatiVidya. I think ENB also has some videos about it, but a lot less than he had about DkS1. DaveControlLive apparently has lore videos as well, but I haven't seen anything of his so take that as you will.

Cool. Just thought of starting with vaatividya and enb as I followed them since long. Looks like they are still doing great.

Edit: yo zocano. I did read item descriptions and explored all the areas, exhausted dialogues of all NPCs.

DaS1 had something to offer you at every step. Like you step into undead berg and see undead suffering, then send fortress gaurded by snake heads, then anoe London with mighty silver knights, lone black knights you encounter at each place, havel etc. Each and every enemy has a story to offer. And all the stories it tells are visually expressed, like you see suffering of undeads, and pride in lone dark knights. Even without reading the descriptions, you can speculate a lot of things at each location.

DS2 lacked that sort of minute details. You face heldi knights, like dark knights in DaS1, but they just don't express as much emotion as dark knights. Dark knights scare the shit out of you when you first encounter them. The guards in the dranglic castle vs silver knights. Even bosses lacked the strong expression, like when you see seath you know he is a damned researcher, what about freja? Nito gives a vibe of cursed necromancer, the rotten? Did rotten has any connection with tentacle enemies like into had with giant skelitons?

The item descriptions are so generic. They just try to be controversial. Ds1 item descriptions are more like clues to the story.

Most disappointing thing was covenants. Each covenant has a great sencw of purpose in DS1. The covenant heads represent the purpose of covenant. While ds2 covenants havs annoying representatives.

I'm not hating on it, when I said it lacked depth I didn't say it like a blind hipster and I'm not being spectical. I observed carefully for clues to understand the world and story but I didn't find many interesting things.

I just want to watch some videos to see if others have found anything interesting.

 

[Zocano]

Harsh.

Mm. I know. I tried not to be but I'm not sure how best to say it. The games just feel really all the same to me as far as story goes. They just end up telling different things. So saying one is just garbage compared to the other just seems off to me. Not to say Emperor did say this but I've heard (from Pat of Super Best Friends) call the story just pure fanfiction and it seems a little close minded.