And you weren't having any problems with the combat difficulty in the main game? If so, I like it.
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Darksiders II |OT| What starts with War, ends with Death.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
And you weren't having any problems with the combat difficulty in the main game? If so, I like it.
It's because death is a major fucking softy if you haven't noticedHe's not so much RAWR FUCKING RAWR GOTTA GET THIS SHIT DONE AND FUCK YOU IF YOU GET IN MY WAY YOU FUCK. Like War is.
There's only once in the game I saw Death lose his cool. It was pretty awesome.
RPGCrazied
Member
I'm not done. To make matters worse I'm in normal mode. I just got to world 2 with 10 hours.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yes a ton more damage. unless you are pure arcane and have high elemental stats on your scythe then an x delayed combo is stronger
You can tell that he is the oldest of the horsemen just by how calm and collected he is most of the time.
I don't think filler is necessarily limited to doing rehashed things like the part of DS1 that you mentioned. I think when you're being sent on fetch quests that aren't really necessary for the story then it starts to grate on people. Like I can accept that I need 3 of whatever to power something that I need in order to get through the dungeon but the part that I've been mentioning (trying to avoid spoilers for other people) I don't get. I don't understand why I have to go on a god knows how long fetch quest just to please the lackey that I need to take out to meet the real important guy. It feels like artificial lengthening despite the area that I'm in being new.
Well tbh it's level based. I also struggled, but my gear is terrible and they were 3 levels higher than me.
RPGCrazied
Member
The problem was the construct champions. Those fuckers can almost 2 hit kill me. lol
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
They acquire stats based on what you feed it. You can only select one new stat per level. You can only have 4 effects. Stats level up every level on it so feed the stat you want the most to it as the first levels increase. You can save the game and make a weapon if you dont like it load the game back up
Thanks!
I really like it!
Can't wait to get mine, slow shipping is slow
What about the just frame sweet spot from the meteor strike, does it inflict more damage than the charged sweet spot or it's the same?
METEOR SMASH! HE LOVES YOU
So would it be different if instead of having to gather 3 of X in order to fight him, the guy you have to fight was the boss at the end of the dungeon instead? I think Tragic was spot on that it seems to be more of a narrative issue for you.
Nah you don't have to do the stone bites quest to get the armor.
Gloves - Relic Quest
Plate - 40 pages Book of the Dead - Destroy items in final tomb to reveal chest
Boots - lvl 50 crucible
Shoulders - Lvl 100 crucible
Plate - 40 pages Book of the Dead - Destroy items in final tomb to reveal chest
Boots - lvl 50 crucible
Shoulders - Lvl 100 crucible
Got 3/4, just need
shoulders
last crucible levels
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's a sweet spot charge, the purpose of it isn't to get super high bonus damage. It's the fact the skill comes out instantly with out having to charge it.
razgriz417
Member
what level are you? I didn't really doing the crucible until ~13 and then I still had trouble with the damn floating guys showed up. I don't think you get xp in there either, maybe best to wait til you level up a bit.
O ok thanks, yeah I wish I was better at finding
relics and pages
I know, having it coming out instantly is already reason enough to use it (in my case just being able to shoryuken without buying the ability is enough reason), I'm just curious.
tragic
Developer
I totally agree that being sent on fetch quests could (and does to some people) feel that way. I don't disagree that it could make you feel like what you are doing is meaningless. All I'm trying to say is, content wise, it's definitely not filler.
Say we changed the motivation for doing what you are doing (specifically in the example you pointed out). Say
Chancellor
Interdictor Stone
Gnashor
Then, once you got the
Interdictor Stone
Dead Lords
Lord of Bones
Motivation wise, it would probably feel less fetchy and more "I'm on a mission!". The content, however, would remain identical.
That example is not perfect, but again, it's just an example.
With the right gear it's pretty trivial up to wave 50. I went in after beating the game and one shot my way to wave 50. I got what I wanted for the time being, but I'll being going back to beat the whole thing when I unlock the last levels. I'm playing on apocalyptic by the way.
No I wanted to fight the guy right there. You start off in the necessary room only to have some people say you can't just fight the guy right now that would make too much sense, you have to go please him first. And my response was like "who the fuck are you that I have to bust my ass for? I'm already going out of my way to please an actual important guy that I need help from." Then it's sending me to branching rooms that are connected to the main area that I'm already in.
RPGCrazied
Member
I'm level 12.
razgriz417
Member
Yea I think I waited until I was ~ 17-18 and got
Argul's Ice Hammer
Holy crap...I know what I'm doing next lol
I want efficiency styling. You know what I mean.
That's not styling. That's combat rewards, which is quite different. A combat reward is something like witch time in Bayo or a counter-attack in GoW. In DS2, it's more statistical but the principle is the same. Styling is using the combat engine and breaking it open. I use that term a lot and my first question about this game was regarding if that was possible. I was told it wasn't...and have confirmed this. Styling is basically creativity. Combat rewards are not creative, they are mechanical. Now DMC is my favorite series to cite but I'll avoid it just to drop some bias.
NG has styling. Dodging mobs in order to get a wall kick into an FS is stylish and efficient. Using projectiles to juggle enemies puts them in hit stun with the same properties. Buffering charge into UT is the epitome of stylish reward. This is when you start talking about space control, invincible frames, lag canceling, etc... None of these things are "timing" based. It's all about being creative on the fly and figuring things out. And that's how you "break open" a combat engine. And there is a ton more to NG, same with Bayo even if it is overly heavy on flair, and a shit-ton more with DMC. DMC4 especially is ridiculous in how styling yields buffs.
I already said DS2 appears to be a step above GoW combat and I'm a big GoW fan. Just inputs, buffering, and combat rewards are all great in DS2. They probably outclass GoW since it relies heavily on the counter system. But that's where it ends. However, that's why the holy trinity is what it is. I'm not going to compare DS2 against them anymore, sans this explanation, since it doesn't apply. But what I said is not "false."
tragic
Developer
Well, what I'm saying is that the reasoning for doing those dungeons could be completely different. Maybe you don't know
Lord of Bones
Dead Lords
Anyway, yea... the motivations can definitely make it seem like meaningless tasks. All I wanted to point out is that all of those dungeons took a lot of people a lot of time to make. Had there been different reasonings for what you were doing (like freeing the
Lava / Water
That's not styling at all in the NG example. How is buffering a UT charge stylish reward but doing a just frame charge off of a meteor smash isn't? That's a core part of the combat, if you aren't doing buffered UT then you aren't even playing NG properly.
NG has poorly efficient "styling" options, juggling enemies with projectiles is pointless and doesn't yield you any extra benefits and neither does variating your moves. 70% of the movelist in a NG is pure vanilla ie only a certain number of moves are good the rest are garbage.
Anyway no one aside from maybe Tragic has broken apart the game yet in terms of mechanics. I try to avoid combat discussion on DS2 because A) I haven't explored all combat avenues yet and B) game is still new so hidden applications are still to be discovered. It took a long time for people to discover some of the mechanics/tricks in DMC3/DMC4, even up to a year.
Damn I have played the game for 20 hours and I am no where near that stylish level yet. :/
After playing the game a lot I appreciate this GIF SO much more. Those were just frame inputs being done.
Snapshot King
Member
Hey Tragic since you're here, what's the deal with all these progression bugs? Any patch eta for this stuff? I'm scared to keep playing lest I hit one and lose a dozen hours of progress.
EDIT: Why you ignore me Tragic ;_;
EDIT: Why you ignore me Tragic ;_;
tragic
Developer
... and DMC is my favorite combat series.
You can style in DS2, and you can be efficient. Both of them require doing far more than basic hit, hit, dodge. There are super efficient techniques in even the most hardcore combat games, and until your damage starts going up based on number of unique moves used (instead of just a score), the most efficient damaging option will typically always be repetitive.
If that is your definition, then yes... you can totally style on enemies in DS2. Do you get a marked increase in damage for doing all that styling? Well that depends how many unique moves you want to chain together. But as mentioned, there is always going to be a "highest damage" option which won't be based on how creative you are being. We have no score system (as you know), so there are no styling rewards except, you know, being as creative as you want to be. The system is very flexible and it allows you to chain things in various different scenarios. Not having a score system (or a damage boost based on unique moves used) doesn't mean you can't be any less creative.
It's like getting a gold star for mowing the lawn. The lawn is still mowed. You did a good deed. Do you need an additional reward for it, or can you just be satisfied that you found some really unique ways to launch, slam, bounce, just-frame, juggle, Deathgrip, Wrath the enemy(enemies)?
What about dodging a mob to make them hit another enemy, Deathgrip back in, air combo into Hellraiser (delay chain) canceled into Flip Saw, notice another enemy about to attack, Meteor Strike to the ground, Reaper Counter that attack (which bounces them off the ground), Harvester Revenge (dash in) cancelled into Crossover Heavy (Cyclone) to AOE any encroaching enemies, change direction for Crossover Special (Hilt Strike), change direction again on final Scythe Hit, Just Frame Mace, Deathgrip again, quick jump into Heavy Slam, cancel the landing into Harvest (all enemies struck take additional damage), cancel into Reaper Form and finish the entire room off... etc.
We know it's not DMC or Bayo. It was never meant to be. We simply wanted to open it up so you COULD style on enemies. However, if you think you can't be creative on the fly in DS2, you are missing a huge part of the system.
It's absolutely false if, on one hand, you can say "that isn't styling" and then in the next breath say, and I quote "Styling is basically creativity." On top of that "It's all about being creative on the fly and figuring things out. ".
This is exactly our system. Reacting to things on the fly, making the best decision for that specific moment, and then changing it when the scenario in front of you changes.
Again, we know the game isn't DMC/Bayo, it's an RPG-action game with improved combat. But, by your very own definition, you can absolutely "style" on enemies.
tragic
Developer
I don't purposely ignore! I was giving away the final Steam Code just know (and also writing a reply!). Anyway, I can't really comment on tech issues except that I know there are smart people looking into it! I know that sounds very PR-ish but it's definitely going on.
Hopefully more important people can give an official update about the stuff in the coming days.
soulassssns
Banned
That Contruct Hulk is pissing me off. I am only a level 8 but I went pretty much all necromancy side for wrath attacks. This sucks hard....
yeah that fight was a pain
soulassssns
Banned
Apocalyptic difficulty is not helping me out either. LOL
Can you re assign points to other special abilities? or am I screwed?
I should have grinded up a few more levels instead of going straight thru the game. I am only a level 8 right now.
Vulgrim sells respecs for 1000.
Finally some awesome random loot. Broke apart some weapon rack and awesome possessed claws dropped that were already better than my current secondary weapon. I've upgraded it to level 3 since then and it's pretty beastly. 20% crit from those things alone not counting my other gear.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
I found a rotatable green laser beam structure at
Anyone know what it's for? Nevermind, I figured it out.
The Maw.
Anyone know what it's for? Nevermind, I figured it out.
I fully agree with your argument that fetching is taken to an extreme in the game. I know it's a personal thing, but I never feel like I'm playing as a Horseman of the Apocalypse -- I'm an errand boy who is respected by no one (or very few). The role of the character in the game and the function of the character's lore do not match up. Death should be a ruthless, cunning protagonist, not a softy who occasionally makes sarcastic remarks. People should be legitimately afraid of the character; after all, he IS death.
That's just my two cents, though.
CambriaRising
Member
A chest for a common hammer with 120-124dps.
soulassssns
Banned
Yea, I've already said I'm done with the comparisons against the trinity. I was just trying to explain myself. That last combo is arguably a stylish reward with the increased air stun on the opponent. It's an advantage there since you get an extra hit and less time that the enemy is in an attacking position. However, it is arguably also a bad move since it puts you in a vulnerable state with other enemies around. It's sort of the basic idea of a stylish reward. But it's also a simple example.
Bringing up DMC, a true example is multi-layered. Doing rainstorm for damage/safety, swap to Nevan for air play, rainstorm, air hike into safe area outside mob into buffered point blanks. It looks stylish and you are basically invulnerable against most enemies. And you are being offensive and defensive at the same time. It's simply brilliant design. That's also a basic example of stylish reward when it comes to the trinity. Something like increased air stun is an example reserved for the basic of basic.
I'm not hating on the title but am just analyzing for what I believe it is. I was told it is a step above GoW and that was correct. You could call it GoW+. But it also has more drawbacks then GoW with the hard lock, mapping, etc... issues. So it almost evens out especially when you compare the enemy design. But it isn't a game that categorizes as having stylish rewards. Nor is it a game that you can break open (which I was also told and was also true). It's good, which I think is enough.
Ah, you are always a pain with this stuff. Don't you realize that I simplify these examples so it doesn't turn into a hieroglyphic fight?
Killing opponents to store up for the UT is strategic. It also involves the ability to reserve 3d space for your buffer and isn't as simple as a just input. Not to mention when to use it, should you eat blur orbs, grouping enemies, weapon choice for UT result, etc... It's a simple example but still more advanced then a lag cancel on swap or an extended juggle. And don't expect me to replay NG2 on my broken 360 so I can give you long scripted examples. I know what I'm talking about.
No it doesn't, that's Bayonetta. Projectile juggling increases air stun. That's a basic example which can be expanded upon usually in 1v1. Environmental usage alone creates a lot of opportunities for NG. I exploit the yell out of all the projectiles, especially at enemies in the distance. FS and jumping off enemies is great for positioning. NG just isn't as typical as DMC or Bayonetta. But it is in no way inefficient regarding styling. You can be very creative with the tools you have for single player benefit, basically owning enemies. That's not standard combat 101 stuff.
Sounds like a standard mob mix-up. I could post the same for GoW and you can't really style efficiently in GoW... There's nothing wrong with it but it doesn't categorize against what I've been trying to describe.
I can be creative OTF, there is no issue there.
You say you can "style" but that's by your definition. I know my vague definition can be applied to what you are describing, but if I could concisely describe my position, it wouldn't. People love Bayonetta to death but I don't really like it. Yet Bayonetta has more style options then DMC3, which is my favorite action game ever. So why would I hate on the styling in Bayonetta? Because it is mostly fluff. It's rarely applicable to being efficient e.g. obliterating AI. Yet I won't deny that it has a ridiculous amount of options to do so. I see options in DS2 but many of them are putting me at a disadvantage, much like Bayonetta. Or many seem only practical with 1v1, a flaw with NG.
You are citing lag canceling, crowd control, and a ground smash for positional advantage. That's great stuff! I never said it wasn't and this is why I say the combat appears better then GoW. I can't be more complimentary then that! I'm negative as hell, trust me. But it's also standard affair. Flicker in DMC3 is basically the best lag canceling move in action game history, Reb has ass crowd control yet still has a back hit on combo 1, and volcano does both! Yet that's just three small features on moves that have a ton more applications...
I was mainly questioning "efficient styling" in DS2. When I say that, I'm not talking about standard affair like lag canceling, crowd control, and ground smash. And I'm not even talking about ridiculous enemy step cancel antics in DMC. It's just using your options to not only be fancy but put yourself in an advantageous state. Do I think it is cool to launch an enemy over my head behind me, dodge back into an LS down scythe attack? Sure! But what was advantageous about that? It just put me in a vulnerable state and with the zoom-in on hard lock, I can easily get hit "off-pane." I want to use it in mob battles but don't. I also am shying away from launchers since you don't get high enough. Enemies can still get your hit-box and you can't jump out. And even if you ground pound, you are open to enemy swings that were after you in the air. So that's more of a 1v1 reserve. I use my hammer for crowd control which is great but it's so damn laggy. I'd switch to fists but then I lose that great crowd control. Trade-offs are fine but it would be great if you could keep pushing your skill to tilt the scales. There's nothing wrong with a really high execution move that puts you at a 9-1 advantage. Just make it so that if you mess up, it is 1-9.
I'm being super positive about the combat engine here, trust me. I just don't like the styling in the game. It's too basic and has a touch of Bayo-fluff.
Domcorleone
Member
I just figured out how to properly upgrade my possessed weapon and now my weapon is godly! My love for this game just when up 20 fold! Where is the online manual.? On THQ?
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
What was your strategy?
razgriz417
Member
I don't get it, you keep contradicting yourself.
You said that stylish efficiency comes from obliterating the enemy AI. Launching an enemy in NG and then peppering them with shuriken is the exact opposite of efficiency as there is no way that is possible in a mob of enemies who are out to kill you. That's about the same as launching someone in DS2 and peppering them with Redemption, at least you will get a ton of Wrath generation from it. Besides why would you use the shuriken when instead you can use the explosive shuriken? Its much safer and does more damage, can even lead to follow ups.
You can be creative but its not efficient at all in NG. Why would anyone use particular strings in a combo when there are others that do more damage, are safer, have more crowd control? That is the definition of fluff to me. When XYXXXY is vastly superior to something like XXXYY (random examples), how does that promote stylish efficiency? The highest level of NG play basically revolves around a ton of dodging and doing invincible heavy moves otherwise you get decimated and that's how the game was designed (which I can respect).
Then you knock DS2 for doing stuff pulling enemies and then dashing behind them when that's essentially one enemy you have disabled from long ranged while also getting positional advantage. And any of those actions could be dodged out of so there was no immediate risk to it. The fact that you are always in range of getting hit puts more intensity into actually styling where as in something like DMC/Bayo once you Hightime someone, the other enemies can't even touch you and from that point on it's just training mode combo. It's a difference in design philosophy and I can respect that.
Tragic: How the did you cancel the last portion of the string in the beginning portion of the GIF? You started off with XYYYX but the last portion of the combo was a two hitter move with the Scythe yet you cancelled the first hit with an instant timed charged attack with the Hammer. I am sitting here trying to replicate it but I can't. I am using a Mace but the mechanic should still apply. Do I hold it like I do with the Meteor Strike or is there something else?
Also I just discovered Flip Saw into Meteor Strike... now this is legit technology.
CambriaRising
Member
VPN bro!!! I couldn't have waited.