Alligatorjandro
Banned
Wow this game is awesome
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Darksiders II |OT| What starts with War, ends with Death.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
I've already waited this much, I can survive 19 more hours.
Gunbo's a DMC3 nut. He thinks it's the pinnacle of the action genre and anything else doesn't top it. It's a linear thought process where he doesn't really consider that different action games offer different things but still be equal.
That and he's using his own definitions and creating multiple stasis making an argument/discussion utterly complex and convoluted. To me, I see it having no rhetorical or knowledge value.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
The
is one cool place. I found Possessed Bucklers here with fire damage and decent Critical Chance + Damage. Renamed them Ifrit's Rage.
Eternal Throne
Dammit, SGSSAA screws up the visual effect of the Voidwalker's portals. I was hoping that losing the super low-res model of Death in the menu screen was the only side effect, but this is actually gonna have gameplay related ramifications if the puzzles are like DS1's. Don't suppose a different compatibility bit fixes it?
Hey I am a DMC3 nut too and the definitions he is using were created by the community at large and used in the FAQ that I put out on Gamefaqs.
I know where he is coming from and we are just having a little spat on what "stylish efficiency" really is.
Anyway I discovered another just frame input on accident right now. At least it's a discovery for me and wanted to share it:
So basically I was doing my regular combo of XYYY launcher XXY with a Mace equipped. Pretty standard combo but the final Y brought me to the ground and normally that's the end of the combo only I added a timed Y input and he did the "sweet spot" version of the Mace during it. I have been able to replicate this a few times and the funny part is that this move differs from the version done with Meteor Strike.
Meteor Strike Just Frame Secondary gives you the "baseball" swing with the Mace. Air combo Y finisher into Just Frame Secondary gives you a move where he swings down vertically instantly.
Tragic where you at?
OH SHIT I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY!!! After the Lock on + Back + Secondary where he swings around and then brings the mace down, you can do the aforementioned just frame input here as well. Does the same move as when you come down from the air.
Now I just realized that this may apply to other weapons. Going to do some testing with some other weapons and see what their stuff is.
Tried it with Buckler with the Lock On + Back + Secondary, didn't work but I am guessing that's because this weapon doesn't even have a ground charge move as he just blocks/counters. He does have a "sweet spot" charge move in the air. I have also figured out the visual cue for the sweet spots, it's not that hard.
WheelHoss1
Member
That's why I always go for gear that increases defense over offense. I can honestly say the combat has rarely challenged me. Demon's/Dark Souls really taught me how to be economic and efficient with melee combat. Thanks, FROM.
Hey I am a DMC3 nut too and the definitions he is using were created by the community at large and used in the FAQ that I put out on Gamefaqs.
I know where he is coming from and we are just having a little spat on what "stylish efficiency" really is.
Anyway I discovered another just frame input on accident right now. At least it's a discovery for me and wanted to share it:
So basically I was doing my regular combo of XYYY launcher XXY with a Mace equipped. Pretty standard combo but the final Y brought me to the ground and normally that's the end of the combo only I added a timed Y input and he did the "sweet spot" version of the Mace during it. I have been able to replicate this a few times and the funny part is that this move differs from the version done with Meteor Strike.
Meteor Strike Just Frame Secondary gives you the "baseball" swing with the Mace. Air combo Y finisher into Just Frame Secondary gives you a move where he swings down vertically instantly.
Tragic where you at?
You can do those timed mace specials after the LT+back+Y charge move and the forward dash+Y moves as well. It's pretty much the basis of my entire combat style.
I also noticed that 'maces' and 'hammers' are subtly different in what moves come out during these.
Was just going to post this.
This changes the way I play the game now.
I am trying to replicate the same with the Gauntlets. He has an aerial charge move where he comes down similar to Meteor Strike. If my theory fighter is correct then he should be able to do his sweet move charge move here with timing. He can do it off of a Meteor Strike but its easier with Meteor Strike than it is with the other way. Still trying to pull it off.
Well after 29 hours I finally beat it. The ending was....
It just feels so rushed after this grand adventure. Loved the game, my GOTY 2012 so far...but they really failed with the ending :\.
Oh well, time to go back and find my missing 6 mystic stone bites.
very anticlimactic. I went on this massive quest hoping all over the universe to save my brother War only to have the ending be 3 minutes long and show fuck all. Death takes off his mask and jumps in the Well of Souls, but it's not really a sacrifice or anything since he's still alive. Then they top it off by showing an animated version of the end of DS1. Hell it would have been better if they just showed the cutscene from DS1. Or maybe that would just even further highlight how disappointing this ending is in comparison to the first game :\. You don't even get to see a glimpse of the effects of mankind's revival.
Oh well, time to go back and find my missing 6 mystic stone bites.
You can do it with mobs but it's also a complete kill 1v1. Maybe more of a fluff example but it's just one...
When did I mention NG combos? Efficient styling in NG has nothing to do with combos. Space control and environmental interaction in NG is god tier. Way better then Bayo and DMC combined. And weaving in projectiles, FS, and other techniques while maintaining those is absolutely efficient styling. You are being creative outside just using your techniques. What's even more fun is breaking off the majority of the combos and basically "shaping" mobs. The only issue is fighting the camera. It's like playing with your food and you can launch devastating UTs. I often would then face the mob and limit myself to counters leading to kung-fu movie style results.
I'm not knocking anything. It's just simple stuff is all. I think it is great that it is in the game but I also see tons of gray instances as well.
retcon:
I think we can mostly drop this. Way too much non-DS2 above and I didn't realize.
Hmm...maybe...
Sounds about right. Anytime the trinity comes up it is an argument in semantics and hieroglyphics. You might think that I'm bullshitting and that's fine. But I've put enough time into all these games where I feel I can place them properly. When I see that gif, I can visually apply what is going on. If I can do that with only a handful of hours into a game, then there probably isn't much depth (at least in that example). In comparison, seeing some footage of the trinity can make me lost in no time flat even when I know the game inside and out.
I said DS2 doesn't have efficient stylish combat but I've been saying that the combat engine is better then an action game I really like. And I don't like many of them. But now I'm trying to explain efficient styling in a GoW+ combat system against the trinity. A trinity that has games like DMC4 which can't be totally exploited due to the lack of speed in human reactions. Of course it's going to be complex and convoluted!
I prefer the "no rhetorical or knowledge value" idea.Hey I am a DMC3 nut too and the definitions he is using were created by the community at large and used in the FAQ that I put out on Gamefaqs.
I know where he is coming from and we are just having a little spat on what "stylish efficiency" really is.
I could always be wrong and maybe I will help towards the cause. It just depends if the game maintains a hold of me. I'm so sick of that damn wooden grab texture and rolling balls around! Maybe somebody can just send me a save file...lol.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Just beat the game as well..
Ehhhhhhhhh meh...Disliked it.
Gonna tool around in new game + for awhile and then work on my review.
Ehhhhhhhhh meh...Disliked it.
Gonna tool around in new game + for awhile and then work on my review.
MiamiWesker
Member
Hey I am a DMC3 nut too and the definitions he is using were created by the community at large and used in the FAQ that I put out on Gamefaqs.
I know where he is coming from and we are just having a little spat on what "stylish efficiency" really is.
Anyway I discovered another just frame input on accident right now. At least it's a discovery for me and wanted to share it:
So basically I was doing my regular combo of XYYY launcher XXY with a Mace equipped. Pretty standard combo but the final Y brought me to the ground and normally that's the end of the combo only I added a timed Y input and he did the "sweet spot" version of the Mace during it. I have been able to replicate this a few times and the funny part is that this move differs from the version done with Meteor Strike.
Meteor Strike Just Frame Secondary gives you the "baseball" swing with the Mace. Air combo Y finisher into Just Frame Secondary gives you a move where he swings down vertically instantly.
Tragic where you at?
OH SHIT I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY!!! After the Lock on + Back + Secondary where he swings around and then brings the mace down, you can do the aforementioned just frame input here as well. Does the same move as when you come down from the air.
Now I just realized that this may apply to other weapons. Going to do some testing with some other weapons and see what their stuff is.
Tried it with Buckler with the Lock On + Back + Secondary, didn't work but I am guessing that's because this weapon doesn't even have a ground charge move as he just blocks/counters. He does have a "sweet spot" charge move in the air. I have also figured out the visual cue for the sweet spots, it's not that hard.
Is that the move you can buy for each type of weapon from the advanced moves ghost. Its a move that says if you press Y after a hit you get an extra attack or something.
Ok I was confused there. I agree that styling in NG is about the space control and environment interaction. Minus the environment interaction, DS2 is all about space control. Its all about the dodging and controlling space, especially so in the Crucible. One can be stylish in this where he can go around doing dodges, moves off dodges into just frames. Thats skillful IMO and has just enough boost to its efficiency to be considered efficient.
Explain yourself.You can follow that up with another just frame Dahbomb!
I have been unable to get a just frame off of the Gauntlet aerial charge move.
Yeah, the narrative is going to really suffer if they try to do another sidequel after 2.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
What's a Just-Frame.
I'm gonna quote tragic:
I guess that part is the one you're doing, except for the second just-frame input, isn't it?
What's a Just-Frame.
When you press a button on a very tight window like Nero's EX and MAX Act in DMC4.
Isn't that the one that's going to be a shooter or some shit? I'll probably pass on that.
Fair enough. I'm personally seeing too much risk on the stylish moves making them impractical e.g. fluff. And I'm not convinced there is much depth except maybe a bit beyond that gif. We'll have to wait and see...
Precise input during a small frame window (very short time). If you are running at 60fps, then a just frame input might be hitting a button within 5 frames for example.What's a Just-Frame.
I guess you're motivated now
The Bucklet sweet spot is a shoryuken-like move, I did it after the meteor strike, but didn't try with other moves.
He just better be working on a write-up. Cause I want to skip hours of experimentation if I decide to play with the combat engine. Getting into mechanics arguments is all part of my plan.
I JUST DID IT!!!!
I JUST FUCKING DID IT!!!!
2 just frames in a row!!!!
Basically its exactly like its in the combo. You do whatever combo in the air into just frame secondary attack which does the vertical strike down and when he brings the hammer down you input another just frame and he ends with a horizontal strike. I was using a Mace but it worked exactly like he described.
I JUST FUCKING DID IT!!!!
2 just frames in a row!!!!
Basically its exactly like its in the combo. You do whatever combo in the air into just frame secondary attack which does the vertical strike down and when he brings the hammer down you input another just frame and he ends with a horizontal strike. I was using a Mace but it worked exactly like he described.
Haha I'm losing my mind here. I did that fetch quest I was complaining about, took care of business and got to meet with the guy who was going to help.....only to be told I had to do another sprawling fetch quest (collect 3 of these!) before he'd help me. I don't know whether I should just laugh or cry in frustration now.
Kwanzaa Tim
Neo Member
The steam patch seemed to break the targeting on the PC version, except now with the 360 controller, all the nameplates show up far from the actual target, and aim mode is putting redemption shots no where near the crosshair. I wonder if they fixed the Keyboard and Mouse targeting though?
While I'm enjoying the game when I can play it, I've bought it twice (360 performance for me at least seems terribad), and now the PC (after loads of tweaking, thanks for the earlier tips) is having this weird issue. No happy medium it seems, which is a bummer.
While I'm enjoying the game when I can play it, I've bought it twice (360 performance for me at least seems terribad), and now the PC (after loads of tweaking, thanks for the earlier tips) is having this weird issue. No happy medium it seems, which is a bummer.
I JUST DID IT!!!!
I JUST FUCKING DID IT!!!!
2 just frames in a row!!!!
I told you I was the only worthy one
it's actually a hell of a lot easier than the meteor strike timing, all you have to do is hit it as your mace hits the enemy. It DOES list these moves in the moves section of the menu, but it's pretty unclear what it actually means.
Anyways I've been messing with AA and it seems like anything except FXAA screws up the Voidwalker portals. I don't care about low res menu-Death but I need my portals. They look like ass even when they're working though.
Haven't tried that SMAA injector yet. I really want my SGSSAA so here's hoping it gets fixed by drivers eventually.
MiamiWesker
Member
Its not a fetch quest its the actual content of the game. Thats how the story explains all the dungeons. The story could have been way better but the content is fantastic. I wish they had more errands for me to run.
The 3's just keep on rolling. You're going to be in tears by the end of the game.
I don't get this, he is basically giving you your next mission/dungeon. It's not even a fetch quest. You just teleport to the next location and just go through the dungeon.
The one before it was a legit fetch quest as it basically had you go to 3 different locations to get 3 different items when they could've just combined the entire thing into one quest to unlock the champion.
Also tried doing all those just frame inputs during combat and failed miserably. I was up against those Wraith like enemies and they tore me a new one. Plus when the frame rates are not 60FPS and there is stuff all over the place its hard to time it. People who do it mid combat are skillful in my book.
Kwanzaa Tim
Neo Member
I'm kind of at a loss now, if i set my resolution down to a PC resolution (1360x768), the targeting is fine--- but the UI is messed up (i.e the health and redemption ammo counts are off the screen entirely). Is anyone experiencing this?
Hey I am a DMC3 nut too and the definitions he is using were created by the community at large and used in the FAQ that I put out on Gamefaqs.
I know where he is coming from and we are just having a little spat on what "stylish efficiency" really is.
Anyway I discovered another just frame input on accident right now. At least it's a discovery for me and wanted to share it:
So basically I was doing my regular combo of XYYY launcher XXY with a Mace equipped. Pretty standard combo but the final Y brought me to the ground and normally that's the end of the combo only I added a timed Y input and he did the "sweet spot" version of the Mace during it. I have been able to replicate this a few times and the funny part is that this move differs from the version done with Meteor Strike.
Meteor Strike Just Frame Secondary gives you the "baseball" swing with the Mace. Air combo Y finisher into Just Frame Secondary gives you a move where he swings down vertically instantly.
Tragic where you at?
OH SHIT I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY!!! After the Lock on + Back + Secondary where he swings around and then brings the mace down, you can do the aforementioned just frame input here as well. Does the same move as when you come down from the air.
Now I just realized that this may apply to other weapons. Going to do some testing with some other weapons and see what their stuff is.
Tried it with Buckler with the Lock On + Back + Secondary, didn't work but I am guessing that's because this weapon doesn't even have a ground charge move as he just blocks/counters. He does have a "sweet spot" charge move in the air. I have also figured out the visual cue for the sweet spots, it's not that hard.
The problem is that the moment he started using those definitions with a dev's definitions he was put in stasis. My point was not to discredit tragic or gunbo. Merely stating that his background and tragic's background puts different perspectives in place. As a result we get a somewhat fruitless discussion.
What site are you putting it up for? I have to work on the review as well. lol
CambriaRising
Member
I'm not getting your logic how story progression is the same as a fetch quest.
It isn't telling you to go out in a field and kill 3 monsters, and bring thier bones back to the guy with the yellow ! like WoW.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Aw crap, my first freeze on the PS3. Was at the
and it froze once I got the first stone.
Gilded Arena
phantomspiker
Member
There's only one more after that quest.
It's a fetch quest in the sense that you're always directed and tasked to doing something for certain people so you get something only to be led elsewhere. Honestly, I'd describe the narrative as a wild goose chase.
EDIT: Also, I don't mean to rail on you gunbo. Just trying to balance things out and take a neutral perspective on things.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Buy all of them. Experiment with different secondaries.
CambriaRising
Member
Well yeah, but
Death starts to sound more and more frustrated with it as the game goes on. It is almost a parody of the structure itself.
It basically is, just on a larger scale. And I've done at least 2 fetch quests for this asshole now. Maybe 3 I don't remember for sure.
tragic
Developer
The two things to really take away are:
a) The combat in DS2 is nothing like GOW. GOW was never used as inspiration in any way. DMC was always the inspiration, even with DS1, though you'd probably never know it unless you saw a mid-development build when War was way, way, WAY crazier (at one point, I believe he had 7 different launchers). While it is always an honor to be compared to successful and well-known combat games, it's always funny to see people (no one specifically here, mostly reviewers, or non-combat game fans) say DS1 and DS2 are just "GOW + Zelda". GOW has nothing to do with it, ever.
DS2 is simply DMC lite. It's not (and will never be) GOW+.
b) Styling, in the most traditional sense, is simply being fancy. It has nothing to do with efficiency. When SooMighty did a 4 snapback combo on Justin Wong in the EVO 5v5, that was the truest most ruthless example of styling. Almost zero damage, 100% embarrassment. Nothing about that was efficient, but it was hilarious and debilitating. you may have a different/personal definition of styling, and that's totally fine, but the DS2 combat system was built specifically so you COULD style (in the most traditional "be fancy, do crazy cool stuff" kind of way). It's the same in And-1 Street Basketball. No one needs to do 3 crossovers and a 720 dunk. A layup is about as efficient as you can get. But man, it looks cool, and people are going to go "OOOOOOOOOH!".
In regards to fluff: Every move was designed for a specific purpose. Whether or not you can use them is up to you and your ability to read the enemies and react in time.
Examples:
You may not use delay moves much, but when you do, you get a significant damage boost (and certain launch, knockback, or slamdown effects).
You may not use Flip Saw, especially after Hellraiser, but when you do, enemies die in half the time. You may not like using Flip Saw because you get hit out of the air, that's why you can cancel it with Meteor Strike.
You may not understand why anyone would use Meteor Strike, until you realize it can take you from the air to the ground very quickly, allow you to dodge out of it, Reaper Counter out of it, or perform a Just Frame.
You may not realize you can Wrath cancel almost any attack at any point, including the third (super recovery) dodge, but when you do, you see that you aren't locked in.
You may not even realize that you can chain air X,X into Melee Y,Y,Y,Y, then follow the Melee Slamdown with X (Scythe Slamdown), and then cancel that into a Just Frame, but you can.
You might not even realize that Focus+Back+Scythe sends enemies over the top of you so you can send them off ledges or into lava, but you can. You can even cancel after the first hit into Flip Kick to launch them but still keep them in front of you. You can cancel the last hit of X,X,X,X into Focus+Back+Scythe, or just Flip Kick (or both), let alone a Just Frame, Death Grip, a Wrath Move, or a basic Dash into whatever you want.
As people are figuring out, you can also chain certain Just Frames to other Just Frames (Widowmaker to Riftbreaker). Things like, Air Heavy Y, land, Y, on strike Y (double Just Frame). Painbringer (Dash Y), on strike Y. Gravel Wizard (Focus + Back + Y), on strike Y etc.
Even Deathgrip has unique functionality depending on how high the enemy is above your head. Depending on where you (or they) are, you get a slam or a re-launch. Knowing your heights and being able to get the one you want on the fly is a pretty strong ability. That's also in addition to knowing which enemies can be pulled towards you, and which enemies you get pulled towards. That also plays a big part in fighting both smaller enemies and Brutes/Bosses.
To be fair, I am a DMC3 nut also. I still consider it the pinnacle, even though I know there is more to do in DMC4 and Bayo. =)
Anyway, of course I'm going to speak lovingly about DS2's combat. As long as you all know that we never tried to make it as deep as DMC/Bayo, but only allow you the freedom to be creative. Style away!
Unrelated:
Glad someone noticed that. =)
Seriously? That was intentional? Why no try to mix things up a little instead?
CambriaRising
Member
I would imagine in a game like this, the writing is adaptive to the game's design during VO.
Yeah Death's little frustrated quips (which by the way do not come anywhere near MY frustrated quips that I'm saying to the game) is not worth going through this kind of torture.