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[The Wraith]

Start the journey all over.

That's what I feared. Fuck...

 

[QisTopTier]

About to start this. I hear normal's way too easy, so Apocalyptic is calling. Does this have the right amount of challenge, or is too hard for a first playthrough/too frustrating?

The items you get make it not too hard. Normal would be way too easy.

 

[Tobe]

happily i could get digital LE for 40 on gmg. downloading now.
QQ tho, the save file for beating darksiders 1 really good? cause i havent beaten the first one yet.

 

[Dahbomb]

About to start this. I hear normal's way too easy, so Apocalyptic is calling. Does this have the right amount of challenge, or is too hard for a first playthrough/too frustrating?

Difficulty is very uneven. Depending upon your playstyle, game might be a bit on the hard side or on the easy side on Apoc. If you explore the game a lot and delve into the content (the easier content) then you will get more exp/gold/items that will help you beat stuff easier later on. Fighting against enemies/bosses above your level is going to be difficult but most of them can be avoided until you level up.

Give me a break. I never praise most of those aspects but calling them garbage? So what, you play DMC and hate everything except the combat? Your trying to hard to glam this game, now turning to attack mode. I'm looking at DS2 and that's what I'm writing about. Let's keep the bias in check and not get lost in tangents again either.

That's right I hate or am indifferent to most if not all the puzzle/platforming/adventure element in a DMC game. Nothing really new or shocking.

 

[QisTopTier]

happily i could get digital LE for 40 on gmg. downloading now.
QQ tho, the save file for beating darksiders 1 really good? cause i havent beaten the first one yet.

Those items are no biggie

 

[malfcn]

Not sure if this is a bug or what?

Spoiler

But I found a piece of a Construct. It says press B to activate, but it does nothing. I think it is my last piece of Oran.

And I can never seem to do the forward evade + scythes/secondary.

Spoiler for new page. I'm fucked, right?

 

[QisTopTier]

Spoiler for new page. I'm fucked, right?

Did you try restarting the game? None of those things went wrong for me. D: Did others work?

 

[Creamium]

Thanks guys, diving into Apocalyptic then.

 

[malfcn]

Did you try restarting the game? None of those things went wrong for me. D: Did others work?

Restarting. All other parts went fine. This is my last part. When I "activate" the button just reappears telling me to activate it.

Got it to work..DO NOT hold the button, just tap it. *hits self*

 

[gunbo13]

That's right I hate or am indifferent to most if not all the puzzle/platforming/adventure element in a DMC game. Nothing really new or shocking.

I see... I guess you hated all the classic RE games? I'm just curious because compared to the combat, those things are indeed terrible. Like god tier to scrub level. But as far as video games go, I won't say they are garbage or terrible. That's just being exaggerative to qualify some really heavy attraction to one game element. I actually don't mind stuff like the light puzzles or even the dice game. They're not great but not terrible. And at the very least, unique despite arguably being failures.

So you prefer the same exploration mechanics just re-assembled per environment? I lost count at the number of times I had to throw a yellow explodey ball to break up yellow crystals. And the wood texture is burned in my retinas. I can't even think of anything in the subsequent dungeons that was different from the past. They added the golems and deathgrab like 6-8 hours in...yet that's all I can think of. I just can't fathom how you can say the dungeons aren't repetitive when you are factually doing the same thing over and over. How many times did you roll a ball into an opening? How many times did you break yellow crystals? How many times did you extend and tightrope a chain? How many times did you swim and find the wood texture to advance? It's like 20-30 times each per dungeon.

I will give credit to one area in the Foundry I think.

Spoiler

You had to put a golem on a platform, push the chain, and then rotate the switch. The platforms descended and you had to get on the chain to reach the platform. Yet, you couldn't just jump up right away since the wood textures were too high! So you delayed, jumped up, got on the chain, and then advanced.

That is good stuff. But rare stuff for DS2. In a more balanced system that would be like the 2-3 time use of the golem, not the 50th. The variety is bad.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Just about finished writing my review.

Looking forward to getting rid of this game and getting some money back.
(Yeah it's a negative review *shrug*)

 

[Zeliard]

It's all over the place and the puzzles/platforming are not laid-back, they're gray quests.

Que?

I play those games because they are good games, not just for the combat. 95% of the gameplay is NOT fighting, especially in DMC. It's typically a balance of puzzles, adventuring, back-tracking (unfortunately at times), boss fights, and mob fights. God of War uses a similar balance. Just because the combat is the "highlight" that doesn't mean that's all there is to the games.

It's all there is to any meaningful degree. You may be one of the three people who cares about anything outside of the combat in those games, but that doesn't mean that isn't what they're largely about and what they're geared toward, especially compared to Darksiders 2 (you know, the original point of comparison).

A blending of game mechanics and pacing aren't exactly the same thing. A game that is pure action and without any puzzles and minimal exploration elements can still be well paced. Pacing is making sure the player has an enjoyable experience the whole time they are playing the game by controlling various aspects of it. So that means making sure they don't get tired of whatever they are doing, that they want to progress forward, that they don't find the game overwhelming for some reason or another, so that they don't get stuck on a single section for too long. That is pacing.

That's kind of exactly what I said - blending the variety of gameplay styles into the whole and serving them up at a rate where one isn't overwhelming the other and bogging the player down. If you want to have proper pacing in a game with a variety of gameplay styles, then you kind of have to serve those up at a proper pace.

Good pacing in one game is not necessarily going to resemble the idea of good pacing in another one. Nobody is saying that games which are all action can't be well-paced, but that good pacing in a game like Darksiders 2 will naturally (and obviously) come from varying things up to a degree where you're getting a roughly similar serving of each of its core elements.

The whole original point was that if the game was much more combat-heavy than it is, it would damage the overall pacing because the combat system and enemy encounters are solid but not quite strong enough on their own to be what largely drive it, unlike other types of games. And that's why comparisons to pure combat games was brought up, where the combat system is meaty enough there to base the entire game around.

You can certainly feel Darksiders 2 is poorly-paced, but that will tend to be if you think there's too much of one thing as opposed to the other (i.e. too much time spent with puzzles).

 

[Tea and Toast]

Steam says 3 hours until it unlocks here in the UK... is that right though? Around 9pm Monday night seems a very strange time to release, not that I'd be complaining if it happens!

Also for anyone else whose game is still locked, do you get a "missing decryption key" message if you try and launch it? I'm sure the last game I preloaded said something about the game not yet being released instead.

Yeah mine does this. It also seems to be updating constantly without any percentage increase.

 

[thabiz]

I'm not sure there is one.

http://www.thq.com/us/manual

Select your platform. Select the game.

 

[QisTopTier]

I will give credit to one area in the Foundry I think.

Spoiler

You had to put a golem on a platform, push the chain, and then rotate the switch. The platforms descended and you had to get on the chain to reach the platform. Yet, you couldn't just jump up right away since the wood textures were too high! So you delayed, jumped up, got on the chain, and then advanced.

That is good stuff. But rare stuff for DS2. In a more balanced system that would be like the 2-3 time use of the golem, not the 50th. The variety is bad.

You are going to love the later puzzles then.

 

[gunbo13]

Que?

Gray meaning generic.

It's all there is to any meaningful degree. You may be one of the three people who cares about anything outside of the combat in those games, but that doesn't mean that isn't what they're largely about and what they're geared toward, especially compared to Darksiders 2 (you know, the original point of comparison).

Oh, there aren't many people who lean more towards the combat in those games then me. Trust me on that. But I don't see the outside elements as an afterthought for the developers. The atmosphere in DMC1 especially had a lot of care involved. That mist and wind scene... So while the games turned out to be all about the combat for some, it wasn't like that was the complete intention. Why would the developers want their work on the adventuring to be a grind for players? I'm sure they thought they were fun, especially since they were mostly rip-offs of the successful RE games. Hindsight is 20-20. Successful elements over others doesn't imply the failures as afterthoughts or that there wasn't an attempt at balance.

The whole original point was that if the game was much more combat-heavy than it is, it would damage the overall pacing because the combat system and enemy encounters are solid but not quite strong enough on their own to be what largely drive it, unlike other types of games. And that's why comparisons to pure combat games was brought up, where the combat system is meaty enough there to base the entire game around.

I disagree. I think the combat is used too sparingly. Some encounters are over so fast I feel that is was a waste to even have the event. The combat system is also way better then the rest of the game, though the RPG elements have a draw. Yet I find myself platforming and doing puzzles the majority of the time. And I find this cumbersome.

That is bad pacing. I also don't care about Death or the characters. And Ayla's little swoon move when I'm buying weapons disturbs me... I'm just dungeon hoping where most of it is a grind based on generic adventure elements. I'm happy when combat comes since it's the better part of the game and it breaks up the menial adventuring tasks. The game shouldn't be like that. And I'm absolutely not holding anticipation for the next dungeon, which the best adventure games out there do better then all.

You are going to love the later puzzles then.

Never!

Spoiler

Can I collect three whistles so I can tele there? Cause I'm not liking where I'm at now.

 

[KevinCow]

The last two major items -

Spoiler

the Voidwalker and the Soul Splitter

- have some pretty brilliant puzzles designed around them, especially when used together. I kinda wish they'd introduced both those items sooner.

But I kinda feel like they listened to the people who complained that the Black Throne in the first game was too hard, and shied away from putting anything that complex in this time around. Maybe they could've had an optional dungeon full of all the crazy complex and tough puzzles.

 

[Zeliard]

Gray meaning generic.

What does that have to do with them being laid-back or not?

I'm talking about combat basically being a high in terms of excitement (relatively) with the puzzles and platforming parts as more chill moments of low tension, where you can freely go around and take your time.

Oh, there aren't many people who lean more towards the combat in those games then me. Trust me on that. But I don't see the outside elements as an afterthought for the developers. The atmosphere in DMC1 especially had a lot of care involved. That mist and wind scene... So while the games turned out to be all about the combat for some, it wasn't like that was the complete intention. Why would the developers want their work on the adventuring to be a grind for players? I'm sure they thought they were fun, especially since they were mostly rip-offs of the successful RE games. Hindsight is 20-20. Successful elements over others doesn't imply the failures as afterthoughts or that there wasn't an attempt at balance.

Well I was talking about gameplay solely, not necessarily atmosphere, but my point wasn't really to diss the other stuff those games try to do (even though I don't care for them), but point out that the combat is so damn good that those games didn't even have to do anything else (unlike Darksiders 2, or God of War for that matter, where the combat never reaches those highs).

Ninja Gaiden 2 is a pretty wicked game, and while it has a few issues, those don't come down to the fact that they made it pretty much 100% combat and removed all pretense that anything but the combat really matters. And with Bayonetta, honestly, the Space Harrier and motorcycle sections were fun the first time but just get old and annoying on replaying it.

I disagree. I think the combat is used too sparingly. Some encounters are over so fast I feel that is was a waste to even have the event. The combat system is also way better then the rest of the game, though the RPG elements have a draw. Yet I find myself platforming and doing puzzles the majority of the time. And I find this cumbersome.

That is bad pacing. I also don't care about Death or the characters. And Ayla's little swoon move when I'm buying weapons disturbs me... I'm just dungeon hoping where most of it is a grind based on generic adventure elements. I'm happy when combat comes since it's the better part of the game and it breaks up the menial adventuring tasks. The game shouldn't be like that. And I'm absolutely not holding anticipation for the next dungeon, which the best adventure games out there do better then all.

That's fine, and I also think the combat is the best part, but I personally haven't felt that the dungeons bog the game down. They tend to be over speedily enough in my experience; I don't find myself dwelling on the puzzle-solving too much.

In my view, the issues with combat don't come down to how non-frequent it is since I find myself fighting things at a pretty steady pace, but generally how easy it is even on Apocalyptic (at least so far). It's the same thing with the puzzles, really. I'd prefer it if they were more difficult and I had to spend more time on them. But again, maybe that changes later on. An overall increase on the difficulty of the combat, puzzles, and platforming would have done the game wonders.

And I agree with any criticisms about the writing. I don't really care about the stuff I'm doing in the game from a story standpoint because it hasn't given me a reason to care. It's all boiler-plate fantasy, but I'm still enjoying the act of getting those random things done since the game is fun to play and I really love the visuals.

I like Death, though. He has a fun way of being annoyed by everything and wanting to be doing anything else.

 

[QisTopTier]

Spoiler

Can I collect three whistles so I can tele there? Cause I'm not liking where I'm at now.

haha don't worry you are almost done with the first world.

 

[MikeHaggar]

Just about finished writing my review.

Looking forward to getting rid of this game and getting some money back.
(Yeah it's a negative review *shrug*)

i'm wondering out of curiosity how much you enjoyed the first darksiders?

 

[gunbo13]

What does that have to do with them being laid-back or not?

I'm talking about combat basically being a high in terms of excitement (relatively) with the puzzles and platforming parts as more chill moments of low tension, where you can freely go around and take your time.

I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is that they are generic e.g. boring. Well, I guess boredom can be a form of being laid back. But no, I don't find them chill moments of low tension. More like a hark back to when my mom would tell me to do chores. Ones which I wouldn't do.

Well I was talking about gameplay solely, not necessarily atmosphere, but my point wasn't really to diss the other stuff those games try to do (even though I don't care for them), but point out that the combat is so damn good that those games didn't even have to do anything else (unlike Darksiders 2, or God of War for that matter, where the combat never reaches those highs).

Which is true. But none of these games have been able to touch all the aspects evenly. This includes DS2. I know people are saying it is one of those titles that really blends everything together. Even more so then God of War, especially with the RPG elements and open-world travel. I just don't see it regarding balance; though amount of content is a quantitative idea. I see a game with a well design combat system, an engaging RPG system, and boring everything else. So while DMC has flat out bad platforming, so does DS2 on its own relative scale. NG usually has stupid puzzles but I don't see DS2 being better since they are repetitive. It's like if DS2 had a report card it would be B+/B/C-/D/D-, etc... So it's not much different from the trinity imbalance IMO.

Ninja Gaiden 2 is a pretty wicked game, and while it has a few issues, those don't come down to the fact that they made it pretty much 100% combat and removed all pretense that anything but the combat really matters. And with Bayonetta, honestly, the Space Harrier and motorcycle sections were fun the first time but just get old and annoying on replaying it.

Yea, I don't bring up NG2 as the best counter example to having a lot outside combat. Probably because I don't remember anything from NG2 except combat... NGB/NGS was different. And I hate all those sequences in Bayonetta. I think they are awful. Same with DMC1 space harrier.

In my view, the issues with combat don't come down to how non-frequent it is since I find myself fighting things at a pretty steady pace, but generally how easy it is even on Apocalyptic (at least so far).

See that's the thing. Since they are so easy, they are over quickly. So you might see them coming at a pretty steady pace but they are gone before they get started. That's an issue. I like memorable mob fights. I can probably write a top 10 from my favorite action games. Not one fight yet was engaging where I was like, "this shit is on!." It was just about disposing the waves, which is a HUGE step down from the well balanced action games. GoW might be simplistic against some titles but damn does it have great mob balance. DS2 so far has much worse mob balance then GoW. Not PoP:SoT bad but far from good. And the boss fights are worse. So yea, there are issues outside the pace of encounters; which I still think needs a buff.

I like Death, though. He has a fun way of being annoyed by everything and wanting to be doing anything else.

I like him to. But there's no engagement and he is about as grabbing as Clank in R&C. Or Daxter in J&D. He's just sort of there with personality but I'm completely indifferent to him. Same with caring what he is doing.

haha don't worry you are almost done with the first world.

Hooray!

You know, the most frustrating thing right now is that I just can't fight enough. Not that I want a brawler but I see potential in the system (though it might be short lived). Yet I can't use it. I got lost beating up training posts for 10 minutes earlier. But I need enemies cause I got these combos in my head. I'm combat starved...

 

[perineumlick]

Am I correct in thinking that enemies scale after awhile? I'm level 21, fairly close to the end game, and I just went back to the Fjord area for shits and giggles, and the fodder enemies there are now level 17, 18 with damaging elemental attacks.

 

[QisTopTier]

Hooray!

You know, the most frustrating thing right now is that I just can't fight enough. Not that I want a brawler but I see potential in the system (though it might be short lived). Yet I can't use it. I got lost beating up training posts for 10 minutes earlier. But I need enemies cause I got these combos in my head. I'm combat starved...

After you clear world 1 you unlock the crucible.

 

[Dahbomb]

You know, the most frustrating thing right now is that I just can't fight enough. Not that I want a brawler but I see potential in the system (though it might be short lived). Yet I can't use it. I got lost beating up training posts for 10 minutes earlier. But I need enemies cause I got these combos in my head. I'm combat starved...

As soon as you beat the first world you get the Crucible. Then you can stay in the Crucible for as long as you please (or basically until it beats your ass which it will). Until then you can try out the optional bosses and the Scar/Shattered Forge side dungeons.

 

[MiamiWesker]

This game really needs help in this department. The very least they could have done for us would have been to number them. Better still would have been once you made the sticks and stones quest your current objective, the silver map marker could have hovered over the location of the next piece.

The first game had an item that revealed all secrets on the map. Why the fuck does this game not have one. Its not like there isn't enough optional hidden dungeons, gauntlets, bosses where the prize could have been that item.

 

[forrest]

Well I haven't cared for a Devil May Cry game since the first one, but absolutely love DS1 and DS2, so there's that.

 

[perineumlick]

After you clear world 1 you unlock the crucible.

There you go. Crisis averted! : )

My problem with the combat is the zoomed in camera. Especially in cramped quarters, I sometimes have a hard time following the action, and the lock on tends to make things worse.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Holy crap

That

Spoiler

__Guardian__

boss.

I was pretty blown away after being kind of tepid on this game so far.

Yep, loved that. Very SotC-like and had nice music playing.

 

[Dahbomb]

Lock on is pretty bad in close quarters and against groups of enemies but you can mostly get away without using lock on here. Against bosses it works really well but that's not that frequent of an encounter.

I am now using Claws and even though they are very effective in combat... they don't have as many just frame inputs as the Hammer that I put so much time in learning. Only thing I figured out so far is the Meteor Strike JF with the Claws. It seems like you should be able to do a JF after either the air charged Y or the Lock + Back + Y (tap Y) moves but I haven't been able to get it off yet.

 

[QisTopTier]

The first game had an item that revealed all secrets on the map. Why the fuck does this game not have one. Its not like there isn't enough optional hidden dungeons, gauntlets, bosses where the prize could have been that item.

Because in this game the items hum super fucking loud

 

[Zeliard]

I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is that they are generic e.g. boring. Well, I guess boredom can be a form of being laid back. But no, I don't find them chill moments of low tension. More like a hark back to when my mom would tell me to do chores. Ones which I wouldn't do.

Haha, fair enough :>

I like him to. But there's no engagement and he is about as grabbing as Clank in R&C. Or Daxter in J&D. He's just sort of there with personality but I'm completely indifferent to him. Same with caring what he is doing.

You won't really see me defending the writing much, but I do like Death for his sardonic personality. I don't think he needs much description, though. I mean he's Death, and the guy is at a point where he finds himself tasked with hugging the Tree of Life. It's no wonder he's annoyed.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Screenshots give me kind of a Soul Reaver vibe. If SR is my all-time favorite game, will I like this? I hate God of War and other button-mashers, and don't like having to fight constantly.

Very much like Soul Reaver. Except with better combat and being much longer. Not as good of a story however.

 

[Derrick01]

FINALLY done with world 2. I finished it in 7 hours which was about an hour less than world 1 but holy shit it felt like it went on for 20. Thankfully it seems like the last half of the game is much more condensed.

 

[MiamiWesker]

So new game + doesnt really change anything, it just has scaled enemies to your level? That sucks. Once I hit level 30 I quit.

 

[perineumlick]

So new game + doesnt really change anything, it just has scaled enemies to your level? That sucks. Once I hit level 30 I quit.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I wanted to start over über powerful and just beast through it on normal, but if enemies become damage sponges early on it will just be a grind since I know what to expect.

 

[StunandStab]

Because in this game the items hum super fucking loud

Um, no? They hum, but if there is any other sound coming out of the game, you'll hear that over top of them.

 

[QisTopTier]

So new game + doesnt really change anything, it just has scaled enemies to your level? That sucks. Once I hit level 30 I quit.

Dont the mob types change? they did when I went to higher level crucible stuff and I havent even beat teh game yet.

Um, no? They hum, but if there is any other sound coming out of the game, you'll hear that over top of them.

did you notice they almost never place the two things near each other

 

[StunandStab]

Dont the mob types change? they did when I went to higher level crucible stuff and I havent even beat teh game yet.

did you notice they almost never place the two things near each other

Music is always playing, unless you turn it off. I'm not going to play the game with no background music

 

[tragic]

So new game + doesnt really change anything, it just has scaled enemies to your level? That sucks. Once I hit level 30 I quit.

They don't scale to your level. There is a formula that determines what level they should be based on the level they were previously set at (in normal game).

 

[QisTopTier]

Music is always playing, unless you turn it off. I'm not going to play the game with no background music

What... the hum is over the background noise.... I have sound effects at half way and music maxed out and I still hear the hums.....

 

[Creamium]

Initial impressions : enjoying myself so far, but the performance could be better. Playing the ps3 version and framedrops and tearing are noticeable, especially in the open (horse) areas. I've noticed menu lag as well, not cool. And what's up with the über low res version of Death in the menus? All these little issues add up to make the game seem rather rough around the edges.

 

[Monocle]

I told you I was the only worthy one

Wow, that's a great Wesker design! I can't wait for RE6.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Hobbun]

If this has already been discussed, I am sorry. But what is the consensus on which version is better performance-wise between the PS3 and 360?

 

[StunandStab]

What... the hum is over the background noise.... I have sound effects at half way and music maxed out and I still hear the hums.....

I just found a stone and the hum was barely audible with sound effects turned all the way up and music turned off...

having sound effects turned up isn't really beneficial anyway, since every other sound effect the game makes is louder than the stone humming, and the ambient tracks which are separate from the music have similar humming sounds in them which are louder so it sounds like there are stones everywhere when there aren't.

Game needs a secrets map badly.

 

[QisTopTier]

Maybe it's just cause I'm using headphones =/ idk then

 

[kayos90]

I will say that the story for the game is pretty bad but everything else is pretty much great or above that. Easily one of my favorite games this year from start to finish.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

The music at

Spoiler

Gilded Arena

is ace. The music in world 2 overall got better as well.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

This is my GOTY so far.The combat is excellent.Playing on 360 and haven't had any issues.

 

[Monocle]

The two things to really take away are:

a) The combat in DS2 is nothing like GOW. GOW was never used as inspiration in any way. DMC was always the inspiration, even with DS1, though you'd probably never know it unless you saw a mid-development build when War was way, way, WAY crazier (at one point, I believe he had 7 different launchers). While it is always an honor to be compared to successful and well-known combat games, it's always funny to see people (no one specifically here, mostly reviewers, or non-combat game fans) say DS1 and DS2 are just "GOW + Zelda". GOW has nothing to do with it, ever.

DS2 is simply DMC lite. It's not (and will never be) GOW+.

b) Styling, in the most traditional sense, is simply being fancy. It has nothing to do with efficiency. When SooMighty did a 4 snapback combo on Justin Wong in the EVO 5v5, that was the truest most ruthless example of styling. Almost zero damage, 100% embarrassment. Nothing about that was efficient, but it was hilarious and debilitating. you may have a different/personal definition of styling, and that's totally fine, but the DS2 combat system was built specifically so you COULD style (in the most traditional "be fancy, do crazy cool stuff" kind of way). It's the same in And-1 Street Basketball. No one needs to do 3 crossovers and a 720 dunk. A layup is about as efficient as you can get. But man, it looks cool, and people are going to go "OOOOOOOOOH!".

In regards to fluff: Every move was designed for a specific purpose. Whether or not you can use them is up to you and your ability to read the enemies and react in time.

Examples:

You may not use delay moves much, but when you do, you get a significant damage boost (and certain launch, knockback, or slamdown effects).

You may not use Flip Saw, especially after Hellraiser, but when you do, enemies die in half the time. You may not like using Flip Saw because you get hit out of the air, that's why you can cancel it with Meteor Strike.

You may not understand why anyone would use Meteor Strike, until you realize it can take you from the air to the ground very quickly, allow you to dodge out of it, Reaper Counter out of it, or perform a Just Frame.

You may not realize you can Wrath cancel almost any attack at any point, including the third (super recovery) dodge, but when you do, you see that you aren't locked in.

You may not even realize that you can chain air X,X into Melee Y,Y,Y,Y, then follow the Melee Slamdown with X (Scythe Slamdown), and then cancel that into a Just Frame, but you can.

You might not even realize that Focus+Back+Scythe sends enemies over the top of you so you can send them off ledges or into lava, but you can. You can even cancel after the first hit into Flip Kick to launch them but still keep them in front of you. You can cancel the last hit of X,X,X,X into Focus+Back+Scythe, or just Flip Kick (or both), let alone a Just Frame, Death Grip, a Wrath Move, or a basic Dash into whatever you want.

As people are figuring out, you can also chain certain Just Frames to other Just Frames (Widowmaker to Riftbreaker). Things like, Air Heavy Y, land, Y, on strike Y (double Just Frame). Painbringer (Dash Y), on strike Y. Gravel Wizard (Focus + Back + Y), on strike Y etc.

Even Deathgrip has unique functionality depending on how high the enemy is above your head. Depending on where you (or they) are, you get a slam or a re-launch. Knowing your heights and being able to get the one you want on the fly is a pretty strong ability. That's also in addition to knowing which enemies can be pulled towards you, and which enemies you get pulled towards. That also plays a big part in fighting both smaller enemies and Brutes/Bosses.



To be fair, I am a DMC3 nut also. I still consider it the pinnacle, even though I know there is more to do in DMC4 and Bayo. =)

Anyway, of course I'm going to speak lovingly about DS2's combat. As long as you all know that we never tried to make it as deep as DMC/Bayo, but only allow you the freedom to be creative. Style away!

Unrelated:



Glad someone noticed that. =)

All of this is awesome. I desperately want a pure action game from Vigil with you at the helm for combat design. There are too few real contenders for DMC3's stylish action crown.

 

[Dahbomb]

Whenever I see that post I get sad because there are a couple of things I haven't replicated yet.

Like the air XX melee YYYY into X into just frame. There are still things I don't get in the combat. Still haven't figured how to just frame the list hit of a scythe basic combo.