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DC Universe Rebirth Begins This May

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Overall how have sales been for DC since N52? I don't really keep up with comics themselves, just the films.

They were up for the first 2 years or so they began to decline steadily. They've generally done very well during September when they do big line wide events or covers. They've waffled between the mid twenties to low thirty percents.

This is a great resource for the specifics.

Comic Chron
 

Mael

Member
But Steph is named Steph

stephanie-brown-batgirl-suit.jpg
This is cool
This is horrible.
This is pretty much it. You'll so hear a lot of hate and firm beliefs that "Diane Nelson, Dan Didio, and Jim Lee (and sometimes Geoff Johns) are the root of all evil and are ruining DC."

It's been a little over a year I moved to the US so it took me some time but I actually started reading some comics.
And since I'll read Marvel when they'll stop being ridiculous with the xmen.
The n52 seemed like a good starting point.
I expected way way worse.
Gotham academy is really a fun read too.
There's a fuckload of Batman though!
 

That's...

*squints*

That's a really tiny picture.

This is cool

This is horrible.


It's been a little over a year I moved to the US so it took me some time but I actually started reading some comics.
And since I'll read Marvel when they'll stop being ridiculous with the xmen.
The n52 seemed like a good starting point.
I expected way way worse.
Gotham academy is really a fun read too.
There's a fuckload of Batman though!

I know you ain't talking shit 'bout my girl Harper.
 

Sandfox

Member
This is pretty much it. You'll so hear a lot of hate and firm beliefs that "Diane Nelson, Dan Didio, and Jim Lee (and sometimes Geoff Johns) are the root of all evil and are ruining DC."



Barbara?
My issue is that I either don't like the direction or creative team on the books I used to like.
 

Savitar

Member
Overall how have sales been for DC since N52? I don't really keep up with comics themselves, just the films.

They were kicking Marvels butt for a time and then it started to go back in Marvels favor. Probably didn't help that it seemed DC was driving away tons of great writers right into Marvels arms. It's mind blowing how many left over time and guess what, they're doing awesome at Marvel. Since Marvel was able to print Star Wars they've been smashing DC like no ones business. Supposedly some at DC don't believe Star Wars is the issue, which probably is why whatever is going to happen is going to happen because you know, massive selling SW comics surely couldn't be the reason alone they're losing right.

Did people not realize Cass Cain was back?
IMG-2319-6e759.jpg

And she's been awesome.

Thank you based Snyder, one of the good writers who hasn't fled yet and wanted her back.
 

shoreu

Member
Give me a Batgirls book(Barbara, Steph, Cass and maybe Harper)

Fix god awful Selfie Barbara and rebooted Canary

Fix Dick Grayson, Shiva and Tim Drake

Put Earth 2 Helena Wayne back on the main Earth

Fuck Cyborg, put Manhunter back in the JL

I agree with everything accept for 3rd and last point.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Ah, makes sense.
I think that the new Teen Titans is to be avoided I think but I genuinely do not understand the problem outside of "they changed it now it sucks".
I mean even looking outside of comics there's multiple incarnations of super heroes so I don't really see how you can have a problem with Batman n52 not being like Batman Hush but have no problem with Burton Batman coexisting with Nolan Burton.
It's the inherent problem when you name your new line - you create a name for people to blame. I mean there were obvious problems when they did the New 52, but it's easier to go "FUCK THE NU52" than say "Actually this book is better off, and this character is interesting now, and this one might be the best run the character has had. I'm going to read these instead of the bad shit."
 
They were kicking Marvels butt for a time and then it started to go back in Marvels favor. Probably didn't help that it seemed DC was driving away tons of great writers right into Marvels arms. It's mind blowing how many left over time and guess what, they're doing awesome at Marvel. Since Marvel was able to print Star Wars they've been smashing DC like no ones business. Supposedly some at DC don't believe Star Wars is the issue, which probably is why whatever is going to happen is going to happen because you know, massive selling SW comics surely couldn't be the reason alone they're losing right.

Even with Star War's gangbuster numbers to help them, Marvel was 41.87% to DC's 29.93% of market share last month. It's not as lopsided as it may seem. Though it definitely has been some months.
 

Mael

Member
A child can accept all kinds of weird-looking creatures and bizarre occurrences in a story because the child understands that stories have different rules that allow for pretty much anything to happen. Adults, on the other hand, struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it’s not real.
--Grant Morrison, Supergods: What Masked Vigilantes, Miraculous Mutants, and a Sun God from Smallville Can Teach Us about Being Human

That's a good quote.
I was freaking out because I expected incoherent gibberish of the worst kind like the stuffs Miller does in my nightmare!

If you're sticking to the Bat books and Aquaman, then you're reading the good New52 stuff.

I had a Bday last week, we were talking before about how Aquaman was all a joke or something.
I got Aquaman#1 as a present, it's actually awesome.
I didn't expect to like it so much.
Supes is bad?
I only read Kingdom Come for Superman (and watched the tv shows and MoS I guess)

I know you ain't talking shit 'bout my girl Harper.
Hey sorry, I just don't like that image.
 

Savitar

Member
Squire is delightful.

Even with Star War's gangbuster numbers to help them, Marvel was 41.87% to DC's 29.93% of market share last month. It's not as lopsided as it may seem. Though it definitely has been some months.

DC has been stuck in the mode of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if it sticks. If not, axe it and try something else. They don't feel like they got a real plan.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
They were kicking Marvels butt for a time and then it started to go back in Marvels favor. Probably didn't help that it seemed DC was driving away tons of great writers right into Marvels arms. It's mind blowing how many left over time and guess what, they're doing awesome at Marvel. Since Marvel was able to print Star Wars they've been smashing DC like no ones business. Supposedly some at DC don't believe Star Wars is the issue, which probably is why whatever is going to happen is going to happen because you know, massive selling SW comics surely couldn't be the reason alone they're losing right.

probably because despite times where theyve come out on top, marvel has been steadily beating them in sales without the star wars books
 

Mael

Member
It's the inherent problem when you name your new line - you create a name for people to blame. I mean there were obvious problems when they did the New 52, but it's easier to go "FUCK THE NU52" than say "Actually this book is better off, and this character is interesting now, and this one might be the best run the character has had. I'm going to read these instead of the bad shit."

Yeah I get that.
Heck it happens on gaming side too.
Heck I still can't get over the Bat design from rocksteady so I'm not blaming anyone who have a problem with n52 because it's different.

She has something of a bad costume but the character herself has actually been pretty cool. Scott Snyder (Batman writer) has developed her over the course of the last couple years.

If she's in Batman I'll get there eventually.
After Court of Owl I'm willing to give a chance to whatever he has in store.
 
Wouldn't matter if they did. It's not "their" Cassandra.

Despite the fact that she's been legit in Batman and Robin Eternal.
Who said that, Slayven is joking as everytime I have(or someone else) mentioned Cass since the New52 originally wrote her out of existence gets quoted with "who"

Batman Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal are the only books I had bought since 8 or 9 issues into the New52.
Only problem with NuCass is she likely isn't Shiva's daughter, hopefully she becomes Black Bat again later though.
She has been great so far imo.
 

Pau

Member
Ah, makes sense.
I think that the new Teen Titans is to be avoided I think but I genuinely do not understand the problem outside of "they changed it now it sucks".
I mean even looking outside of comics there's multiple incarnations of super heroes so I don't really see how you can have a problem with Batman n52 not being like Batman Hush but have no problem with Burton Batman coexisting with Nolan Burton.
The problem is that some of our favorite characters or parts of the characters don't exist anymore. I mean, I guess I can pick up the new 52 Batman stuff (actually DC sent me about two years worth of it when I got diagnosed with cancer) but most of the characters I like aren't there. The reason I became absolutely obsessed with Batman was because of him being a dad to all these kids so when you take away most of the kids the story loses most of its appeal for me.

Honestly, I probably invested way too much of my life and emotions into those characters, but it really was the only thing that gave me happiness for quite some time. But legitimately think that the previous stories and relationships between the kids were better than the barebones history between them now, and I think it's natural that I'd want them back.

I could post the same about other favorites like Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), The Question (Renee Montoya), etc. Those hit extra hard as a Latina woman reading superhero comics.

I agree that not all change is bad, but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as all good change too. I understand that another teenage girl is probably picking up these books right now and for her those are going to be the true stories and interpretations of these characters, and that's fine. Although I think she's getting shortchanged. Especially before they started bringing back some of the female characters.
 
Simply amounting the negativity to "durr they changed it" is missing the part where they made some of it worse and forgetting that DC had a hard time and still does of trying to make it clear what happened and what didn't or who stayed and who doesn't exist anymore. Like try being a fan of Wally West and Bart Allen and being told for momths that youre going to get a Flash Family book and instead you get a reboot and silence. And then you get teenaged Wally AGAIN and a dude pretending to be Kid Flash of yore. People are pretty positive about Snyder's Batman, and liked Morrison's Superman and Azzarello's Wonder Woman. The major players got it good. Some of the minor ones didn't, for example Tim Drake who is just total mess of a character now.
 

Pau

Member
Who said that, Slayven is joking as everytime I have(or someone else) mentioned Cass since the New52 originally wrote her out of existence gets quoted with "who"

Batman Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal are the only books I had bought since 8 or 9 issues into the New52.
Only problem with NuCass is she likely isn't Shiva's daughter, hopefully she becomes Black Bat again later though.
Honestly, as long as she becomes Bruce's daughter again I'm good. :p
 

Slayven

Member
The problem is that some of our favorite characters or parts of the characters don't exist anymore. I mean, I guess I can pick up the new 52 Batman stuff (actually DC sent me about two years worth of it when I got diagnosed with cancer) but most of the characters I like are there. The reason I became absolutely obsessed with Batman was because of him being a dad to all these kids so when you take away most of the kids the story loses most of its appeal for me.

Honestly, I probably invested way too much of my life and emotions into those characters, but it really was the only thing that gave me happiness for quite some time. But legitimately think that the previous stories and relationships between the kids were better than the barebones history between them now, and I think it's natural that I'd want them back.

I could post the same about other favorites like Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), The Question (Renee Montoya), etc. Those hit extra hard as a Latina woman reading superhero comics.

I agree that not all change is bad, but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as all good change too. I understand that another teenage girl is probably picking up these books right now and for her those are going to be the true stories and interpretations of these characters, and that's fine. Although I think she's getting shortchanged. Especially before they started bringing back some of the female characters.

I had completely forget about Montoya, she was getting a nice little push. Not Cyborg level but they were cementing her place in the universe. And Jamie Reyes made Blue Beetle relevant. Sure Kord had a lot of fans suddenly when his brain got a skylight, but where were they before?

White Canary. Asian, so you're definitely getting warmer.

Cass' Ninja gear is black and considerably less revealing.
LOL had my fun, but it amazed me when you think about how many females are in the batfamily sphere.
 

Savitar

Member
probably because despite times where theyve come out on top, marvel has been steadily beating them in sales without the star wars books

Yeah they have been. Marvel feels like they're more "stable" than DC currently, even with their own "reboot". Marvel has pretty good luck selling minor or not A list characters and building them up where as DC usually struggles with that.
 

Sandfox

Member
Simply amounting the negativity to "durr they changed it" is missing the part where they made some of it worse and forgetting that DC had a hard time and still does of trying to make it clear what happened and what didn't or who stayed and who doesn't exist anymore. Like try being a fan of Wally West and Bart Allen and being told for momths that youre going to get a Flash Family book and instead you get a reboot and silence. And then you get teenaged Wally AGAIN and a dude pretending to be Kid Flash of yore. People are pretty positive about Snyder's Batman, and liked Morrison's Superman and Azzarello's Wonder Woman. The major players got it good. Some of the minor ones didn't, for example Tim Drake who is just total mess of a character now.
One good thing about this rumor is a bigger focus on Flash and Green Arrow, but I'm still annoyed over what happened with the Flash family.
 
I had completely forget about Montoya, she was getting a nice little push. Not Cyborg level but they were cementing her place in the universe. And Jamie Reyes made Blue Beetle relevant. Sure Kord had a lot of fans suddenly when his brain got a skylight, but where were they before?


LOL had my fun, but it amazed me when you think about how many females are in the batfamily sphere.

True. Expansive list :p
 

Mael

Member
The problem is that some of our favorite characters or parts of the characters don't exist anymore. I mean, I guess I can pick up the new 52 Batman stuff (actually DC sent me about two years worth of it when I got diagnosed with cancer) but most of the characters I like are there. The reason I became absolutely obsessed with Batman was because of him being a dad to all these kids so when you take away most of the kids the story loses most of its appeal for me.

Honestly, I probably invested way too much of my life and emotions into those characters, but it really was the only thing that gave me happiness for quite some time. But legitimately think that the previous stories and relationships between the kids were better than the barebones history between them now, and I think it's natural that I'd want them back.

I could post the same about other favorites like Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), The Question (Renee Montoya), etc. Those hit extra hard as a Latina woman reading superhero comics.

I agree that not all change is bad, but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as all good change too. I understand that another teenage girl is probably picking up these books right now and for her those are going to be the true stories and interpretations of these characters, and that's fine. Although I think she's getting shortchanged. Especially before they started bringing back some of the female characters.
I'm sorry it wasn't my intention of even implying that people who didn't like change were philistines with no taste or something.
Again I just started reading comics starting with n52 runs of pretty much everyone (barring teen titans I feel like I don't want that).
And what I've read so far is pretty good.
I'm really liking what I'm reading thanks to good council from a friend so I haven't had the displeasure of being jaded by bad decisions.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
The problem is that some of our favorite characters or parts of the characters don't exist anymore. I mean, I guess I can pick up the new 52 Batman stuff (actually DC sent me about two years worth of it when I got diagnosed with cancer) but most of the characters I like aren't there. The reason I became absolutely obsessed with Batman was because of him being a dad to all these kids so when you take away most of the kids the story loses most of its appeal for me.

Honestly, I probably invested way too much of my life and emotions into those characters, but it really was the only thing that gave me happiness for quite some time. But legitimately think that the previous stories and relationships between the kids were better than the barebones history between them now, and I think it's natural that I'd want them back.

I could post the same about other favorites like Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), The Question (Renee Montoya), etc. Those hit extra hard as a Latina woman reading superhero comics.

I agree that not all change is bad, but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as all good change too. I understand that another teenage girl is probably picking up these books right now and for her those are going to be the true stories and interpretations of these characters, and that's fine. Although I think she's getting shortchanged. Especially before they started bringing back some of the female characters.

a lack of a fun teen book makes me think this as well.

I had completely forget about Montoya, she was getting a nice little push. Not Cyborg level but they were cementing her place in the universe. And Jamie Reyes made Blue Beetle relevant. Sure Kord had a lot of fans suddenly when his brain got a skylight, but where were they before?

honestly, this is my problem with many kord "fans". people will come out and cape for him now, and i realize there are people who legit like him, but it does feel like the majority are riding the bandwagon, especially since reyes is a better character. the same people that caped for ray palmer when ryan choi was active

Yeah they have been. Marvel feels like they're more "stable" than DC currently, even with their own "reboot". Marvel has pretty good luck selling minor or not A list characters and building them up where as DC usually struggles with that.

which is depressing because dc has some of my favorite low tier popularity characters, but they have short runs or either are background characters.
 

Slayven

Member
a lack of a fun teen book makes me think this as well.



honestly, this is my problem with many kord "fans". people will come out and cape for him now, and i realize there are people who legit like him, but it does feel like the majority are riding the bandwagon, especially since reyes is a better character. the same people that caped for ray palmer when ryan choi was active

Ryan Choi got done so dirty.

Hurts my heart even thinking about it.

He and Giganta will forever be in my heart
 

Savitar

Member
Jamie Reyes is indeed the best Blue Beetle. Though his nuDC series was atrocious. A fact everyone seems to realize, and should be blamed on the artist who was actually doing the stories instead of the writer even if his name was on it.

Poor guy got royally screwed.
 
Jamie Reyes is indeed the best Blue Beetle. Though his nuDC series was atrocious. A fact everyone seems to realize, and should be blamed on the artist who was actually doing the stories instead of the writer even if his name was on it.

Poor guy got royally screwed.

It warms my heart to see the Jaime appreciation up in here, but this is true.

The atrociousness bit, I hadn't heard the thing about the writer/artist conflict before.
 
I was actually getting back into Batman with all the Batman Inc stuff and then New 52 happened and I was so confused that I haven't touched a DC comic since.
 

Pau

Member
I had completely forget about Montoya, she was getting a nice little push. Not Cyborg level but they were cementing her place in the universe. And Jamie Reyes made Blue Beetle relevant. Sure Kord had a lot of fans suddenly when his brain got a skylight, but where were they before?
Well, I started reading DC Comics after Infinite Crisis so I'm technically one of those post-humous Kord fans. :p But yes, Jaime just works so fucking well as a character. I know the book was cancelled before the reboot, but he was getting a push in Batman The Brave and the Bold too. Then they brought him back but didn't understand what it was that made the character great.

My poor Renee. When I dressed up as her at NYCC I had two very polarized reactions: Either people were incredibly excited to see me or they were complete and under jackasses about the fact that I dared to dress up as a gay woman who took up the mantle from a male superhero.

I'm actually for more change in these stories but changes that work well. Two examples are Renee and Jaime! Another was DickBats! The reboot felt not so much as more changes but a regression. You don't need to undo a character's history to tell new stories. How about instead let them grow (and die) organically?
 
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