SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yes, thats why first party devs exist. to push the tech built into the system.
that didnt happen either.
Death Stranding 2 technical director says that the jump from PS4 to PS5 "isn't so great," it's just "more efficient"
that didnt happen either.
Msamy
Member
They waste entire generation for cross gen titles , canceled or flopped live service titles and bullshit looking current gen titles, truly their are the standard of the shit of this gen
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
When games are taking 5, 6, 7, 8 years to develop targets, are set years before the hardware becomes available. The changes people seem to expect cannot be bolted on midway through development, they'd require planning from the outset. So when the development of a single title frequently lasts the entire length of a console generation, not every aspect is going to get explored.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yes, thats why first party studios have access to devkits before everyone. we know sony studios had devkits back in 2018. We know this because sony showed off the fast spiderman demo in early 2019. we know this because Ratchet was essentially a launch window game and had both RT and ssd/io built into its design.
The rest of the studios also started development on their games in 2018 and did fuck all with it. Kojima started development on this game after 2019 and didnt do anyhting with the ssd and he's besties with Cerny going to award shows with him instead of his own wife.
Fact of the matter is that the ssd and io stuff was just something cerny had to focus on because he knew he had lost the tflops war, and had to pivot. we now know that ratchet and spiderman both run fine on much slower SSDs and dont really need the fancy IO. five years later, not even sony's own studios have utilized it let alone third party devs because no one gives a shit. people are trying to push ray tracing, mesh shaders, and destruction physics. and you need a good GPU and CPU for that. not an ssd or io secret sauce.
i have no idea why five years later we have to have the same argument. time has proven me right. lets just move on.
Mr Moose
Member
They weren't a first party studio in 2018.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
and yet they were the first to show off the ps5 io. i wonder why. Insomniac has always been an unofficial first party studio at sony. they've been sharing tech with sony studios since 2001.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I just want to say that its entirely possible that KojiPro is using rtgi, mesh shaders, and ssd/io for the game. Im just talking about this insane idea that the console jump isnt that high when devs arent even utilizing the actual next gen features.
If they are and the game still looks mid like Doom then fine. Yes, you can then claim that the jump isnt that high but Kojipro has yet to tout any of these features.
If they are and the game still looks mid like Doom then fine. Yes, you can then claim that the jump isnt that high but Kojipro has yet to tout any of these features.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's what happened to Helldivers 2, which is why it didn't support FRA/DLSS/XeSS and has a dated TAA solution.
Turn off TAA, max the game to the gills, and it looks glorious. But with that said, would love for it to have a better AA solution and/or AI upscaling. Hopefully it eventually happens.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Nah, all you've proven is your understanding of the actual reality is paper-thin.
Your dismissal of the value/utility of i/o shows you don't know jack shit about dev, and you really shouldn't comment on things you are clueless about.
EDIT: Ah. The inevitable LOL emoji when you have nothing to rebut my claim or evidence your position. Yawn.
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Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
We've entered dark times, where the onset of the next generation simply means sharper image quality.
Even Nintendo have thrown in the towel, with the Switch 2 not having anything innovative to showcase.
Even Nintendo have thrown in the towel, with the Switch 2 not having anything innovative to showcase.
viveks86
Member
I know what I'm about to say is likely fanboy-level wishful thinking, but... what if ND has actually had this paradigm shift and the reason they are pulling off 4K 60 with RT reflections for Intergalactic is because they are now able to fully leverage the I/O to stream assets in and out of memory on a moment to moment basis and massively optimize GPU and CPU performance as a result?
Like you said, I don't think we will see such a major leap within this generation. I think the chances that we will see a downgrade by the time the gameplay is revealed is higher, but one can dream...
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
This seems like the first 4K generation. I can even make the argument for the first 1440p generation. Next gen will likely be targeted at frame rates and lighting with some AI, at least that is what it seems like this far out. 
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
nintendo threw the towel 20 years ago when they revealed the wii. we all just fell for the gimmick that was the magic wand. something no one gives a shit about today.
I have great great doubt. Japanese developers are great artistically but tech wise they haven't a finger of the talent or experience in tech graphic as the western ones imo.
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Dr.Morris79
Member
Gaming~
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
As glorious as the models look in Death Stranding, the facial animations don't hold a candle to those that Naughty Dog has achieved. On the PS4. 2013 hardware w/ a printer CPU.
viveks86
Member
Yet...
When there is a paradigm shift, it may take a while to come to grips with it. The PS3 generation was a complete paradigm shift and look at what UC3 looked like compared to UC1. I think the same is likely to happen with I/O by end of this generation and through next generation.
I really wouldn't count TLOU Part 1 as a current gen game. It was developed by an external entity and just finished up by ND. It's a last gen game with current gen assets. So that's not remotely the ceiling for what ND will achieve this generation. Same with SSM and GOW:R and GG and HFW. I wish SP did more with current gen features though, as impressive as GoY looks, it's lacking on those aspects.
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I can't say for sure, I think they are quite comparable? I'm talking just of the cutscene.
Zacfoldor
Member
This is exactly correct and the reason that the Switch 2 is so good. Diminishing returns. When it requires 10x the graphical horsepower to do 1.5x the IQ then it's time to focus on something else.
Look no further than games like Cyberpunk which are known to look great but look pretty shitty to me on PS5. Certainly nothing near what a PC can do with mods. Cyberpunk and every other game I've played this gen would feel right at home on PS4 Pro or Switch 2 and I would probably barely be able to tell the difference. Witcher 3 on PS4 Pro did not look much worse to my eye than Cyberpunk on PS5 and in fact, Witcher 3 occasionally looked better. I'm sure God of War Ragnarok or Arkham Knight would give it a run for its money, the PS5 port is kinda ugly imho.
I'll still spend on pricy hardware but I'm not gonna be a snob and not play on a > PS4 Pro Switch 2 either. Switch 2 graphics are far FAR beyond good enough for me and well past the point of extreme diminishing returns. Think of what games ran and how well they ran on PS4 Pro. PS6 will be the same way. You can't hardly spend enough money on hardware to make the games look like people want them to look. Look at PC games. Instead of increasing the IQ they play them at 400fps and shit like that. They still look like the console version in many case, just with higher rez and frame rate. Some ports on PC run like shit on 4000 dollar hardware. IQ is not scaling up like it once did. PS6 won't be like, a big improvement, it will just play PS5 games in their pro mode at 120fps. Very few PS6 games will look better than Demon's Souls remake on the PS5 Pro right now. The man is just speaking truth. If you have a PC you can be on the bleeding edge but consoles never will be because of course it is cost prohibitive. PC doesn't escape this. The latest offerings from Nvidia should confirm this for you. The only way we are getting better graphics across the board is with AI developers. AI devs would vastly increase the IQ without needing to increase the hardware. Just like rockstar developers are doing right now.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
As am I. From what I seen, the mouth movements are still is a bit "stiff" in comparison.
RodriGames40
Member
And yet, now they have their first RT/Mesh shader/fast I/O enabled machine and proceeded to develop their next gen stuff for the Switch 1 in mind... That's beyond throwing the towel at this point, I get.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
nah, maybe Japanese gaming. Western studios, and chinese and south korean developers have been great this gen. Western studios when it comes to graphics have made a lot of strides. I understand 2020-2022 was rough, but things have been great since 2023, at least when it comes to graphics.Gaming~
When it comes to gameplay, games like Expedition 33, KCD2, Wukong, Split Ficiton, SH2, Zelda ToTK, and the upcoming Crimson Desert have kept me from completely checking out. I legit loved playing these games. Even mid titles like AC Shadows, Dragon Age, Spiderman 2, FF16, and Callisto kept me engaged. The first two years were rough and the last two years were a bit mid, but 2025 has been amazing.
regardless of my stance on the game's graphics, i think kojiPro will deliver when it comes to gameplay.
Dr.Morris79
Member
I don't disagree in the slightest, I've been having some great fun with quite a few titles as of late. In terms of anything new (So to speak), it does seem to have stagnated a tad
I can only say that in terms of something that felt a bit out there was the story from Soma, or the gameplay of The Outer Wilds. Everything else just has a bit flashier graphics and is derivative of similar stuff that came before
I can only really remember three jumps out of my 40 odd years of gaming that stuck out in terms of being astounded by the leap, to me
The C64 to the Amiga (And stuff being in 3D)
The Amiga to the PS1 (Wipeout was mind blowing back then)
The PS1 to PC (Delta Force 2, Max payne etc. Far surpassed the console experience)
Everything else has been pretty similar in terms of gameplay.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
They threw in the towel in the power race, but they at least tried different features that were interesting, like glasses-less 3D, Gamepad streaming from TV, etc. With Switch 2 they've REALLY thrown in the towel.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i would call RT a paradigm shift. Mesh shaders too. And yet virtually every game nowadays uses RT and mesh shaders. We are in the fifth year of this gen after all.
How many games are using the io? zero? I guess ratchet and spiderman 2 count even though they are both on PC and dont use any of that io or ssd. But other than that, not even sony's own studios have utilized it. It was just a bunch of baloney man. No one is going out of their way to use Cerny's magic sauce into their games. The SSD and IO did not help the PS5 gpu push above its weight. it performs like a 10 tflops GPU should. The IO and SSD didnt help the Pro perform like a 16 tflops GPU. its performing more like a 14.5 tflops GPU. because cerny made the same mistake the Xbox guys made when they went with a wide and slow design for the XSX.
There is no secret sauce. Wolverine leaked docs make zero mention of it. Kojima made zero mention of it. Sucker Punch has made zero mention of it. And these are all games coming out in the next year or so. Maybe ND does something with it, but its been five years and no one has talked about it other than insomniac did when ratchet was revealed. And we now know that was just PR talk because ratchet literally runs on a steamdeck that has an ssd of just 500 mbps read speeds.
I gave cerny five years. ten of his first party studios have released games since. i think thats enough time for a pardigm shift.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What about KCD2 and expedition 33? they are both unlike anything ive played.
Also watch the new crimson desert gamespot preview. the combat options in that game are unlike anything we've seen. its basically a fighting game mixed in with action adventure combat.
Dr.Morris79
Member
You could, at a massive strech say that its a fully fleshed out 'Defender of the Crown'
You could say it's very Final Fantasy esc
Both brilliant games though. I'd hasten to say KCD is certainly up there as one of my favourites
Aye, I saw the videos put up on here, that's definitely going to be a purchase me thinks!
I just hope it's as good as it looks.
viveks86
Member
I get the skepticism and disillusionment. I just find it hard to believe all that engineering and dev excitement behind it was just for vaporware. Unlike RT, which can be bolted on, an I/O driven rendering paradigm shift would require a fundamental rewrite of a lot of core components. I would compare it to a direct jump to full PT, than just RT. Most engines are still not ready to pull that off on even the highest end PCs.
But yeah, if nothing changes in the next 5 years, I would jump on to your boat as well
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Right. And I said this back when this was first announced. That it would require too much work and a completely design shift and no one is going to bother with it. At best, maybe a dev or two build something around it. Most sony devs just want to tell cinematic stories and were never going to utilize such an obscure feature for anything other than loading.
viveks86
Member
Perhaps. Guess we wouldn't know until someone shows it in action. The naive optimist in me wants to think that's how ND is pulling off what they showed for Intergalactic. But I'm more likely to be disappointed when the downgrade inevitably arrives.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
As if Death Stranding wasn't one of the best looking games of its gen, and the sequel looks even more impressive....
awwr999999
Member
Lower res, lower cost, less time.
When you factor in that games sell for the same price regardless of what they cost to make it's easy to see why studios would benefit from rolling things way back.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I dont think you guys know what that word means anymore........It has more to do with time and resource management.
Or are you guys expecting every devs be like Star Citizen that have the luxury of infinite time and budge?
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