Death Stranding 2 technical director says that the jump from PS4 to PS5 "isn't so great," it's just "more efficient"
diffusionx
Gold Member
It's the technical directors job to implement the features he feels are important to the game they are making. It sounds like it wasn't necessary.
Dorago
Member
This is the benefit of keeping the same architecture and upgrading with a more powerful APU, more total and faster RAM, and fully integrated NVM storage - faster than your computer because it's soldered directly onto the mobo, connected right into the APU memory controllers.
Some PS5s may melt down, and the first generation of controllers had build issues, but overall it's the best hardware they've ever released.
Shame about the first party games though.
Some PS5s may melt down, and the first generation of controllers had build issues, but overall it's the best hardware they've ever released.
Shame about the first party games though.
Schmendrick
Banned
You have the lead tech engineer talk about how PS5 is "not much different, just more efficient" while prepping to release a game that`s missing nearly all of the next gen features we`ve seen implemented in other games with other engines. Now if the engine is simply behind the curve or feature xy is not useful for a specific game ...ok, all valid reasons to not go cutting edge, and ofc its a budget question, too.
But this generalized statement is such blatant bullshit considering what others have already brought to the table that it doesn`t exactly shine a good light on that guy`s competence.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
I think we're stuck in a paradigm of Ubisoft open world/skill tree games.
I think we're still waiting for games to redefine gaming.
Games like Mario 64, Halo, Zelda 64, GTA3, Diablo 2, Uncharted, Arkham Asylum. We're at a point where we rarely get games with control schemes that are just pure trash. The baseline for games seems to have greatly improved. Most AAA games run at 60 fps and pretty solid. But we're held back by the fact that we have 10 fingers and our thumbs are the primary actioneers.
Take Hogwarts Legacy for example. The fact that we have to select which skills are readily available to us feels archaic. Voice controls may have been the way to go here at least as an option. I don't think voice control has been explored enough and if the game wasn't so long, it may have been more viable.
Immersion is the next great frontier in gaming. Right now the barriers seems to be scripting/voice acting and the controller. AI can fix the second one, but we still need to find a way to fix the second and VR might be the answer.
midnightAI
Member
He isnt wrong though, the leaps between (console) generations are getting smaller and smaller, the PS5 'can' do raytracing but at a cost so it's really not something you should use too much if you want to keep the performance high and viewing distances long like in Death Stranding (and Horizon). So then what is there? faster loading, faster GPU and faster CPU? thats pretty much it, so due to those everything is more efficient than last gen. We are only talking about the leap between PS4 and PS5 here, we arent talking about 5090
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killatopak
Member
The jump between Horizon 1 and 2 seems good enough for me. That was cross gen game that was clearly limited by it yet still showed progress. A current gen only game should have more room for creativity.
Either DS2 has minimal form of pushing stuff and just focused on cinematic stuff or they just lack creativity which from Kojima, I very much doubt.
Engine limitation perhaps? It certainly looks good but looking good isn't the only way you can judge an engine.
Either DS2 has minimal form of pushing stuff and just focused on cinematic stuff or they just lack creativity which from Kojima, I very much doubt.
Engine limitation perhaps? It certainly looks good but looking good isn't the only way you can judge an engine.
Schmendrick
Banned
yes he is...massively so, as other developers have already proven, on console.
Full RTGI with large render distances thanks to virtualized geometry plus wind, destruction and other physics simulations in dense worlds x-times the size of prior generations are already in released games, and GTA 6 is on its way to pulverize these metrics again on the same hardware. Meanwhile that guy working on an "empty landscape with one person in it"-game which doesn`t have any of that (well, maybe the environmental stuff like wind/fire/water will not just be scenedressing) gives such statements......
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Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
When Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet is released this technical director will be put to shame.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think people are misunderstanding what he's saying here. Once we went x86, there wasn't gonna be any MEGA shifts in hardware from console to console. That doesn't mean the jump from the PS4 to PS5 generation is small.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
That why I bought a series s. It was the only way to get something that was not overkill.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If developers would just make games that run at 30 fps at a resolution of 1080p-1440p, you'd see a HUGE difference from PS4 games.
rubik's dude
Member
Comfortability while playing a game is something to consider as well. We have the technology for voice control, feet control, VR, and all sorts of stuff. But it would take a lot of mental and physical energy to play those games. Like you said, that's an experience best left for shorter games.
Innovating on the current experience would require not compromising on current comfortability. For consoles, the Switch 2 adding mouse support is a step in the right direction (although using a JoyCon as a mouse sounds terrible).
ChorizoPicozo
Member
consider this a remaster of that quote
Bitstream
Member
That checks out, sony loves remasters.
This quote screams damage control to me. DS2 isn't a leap above DS1, and most first party sony (with a few exceptions) haven't really pushed boundaries beyond the ps4.
Odd to die on this hill though when bloober team is cranking out next gen visuals.
Sony huffing too much GAAS, they're delusional.
I wonder why they had so many Cerny showcases about next gen hardware to have this dude pipe in 5 years later just to shit on it lol
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Like I've said before the core issue is "big" detail versus "small" detail.
Previous gens had enough grunt to render the big picture, so all that's left now are the small details. And the unfortunate reality is that those small details are more expensive to render than, or at the least, less impactful on the overall result relative to render cost then the big things,
Previous gens had enough grunt to render the big picture, so all that's left now are the small details. And the unfortunate reality is that those small details are more expensive to render than, or at the least, less impactful on the overall result relative to render cost then the big things,
Toots
Member
Goddam you killed me with this one
Fbh
Member
Diminishing returns and stagnating software sales.
Getting 3X the power no longer means your games will look 3X better, and you can't keep increasing game budgets forever if sales don't grow accordingly.
IMO E33 is a good example that wasting hundreds of millions on graphics isn't worth it.
Decent graphics with excellent art direction will always be more memorable than " next gen graphics"
Getting 3X the power no longer means your games will look 3X better, and you can't keep increasing game budgets forever if sales don't grow accordingly.
we reached a point where indie devs can make games like this
there is a lack of creativity these days not lack of power
IMO E33 is a good example that wasting hundreds of millions on graphics isn't worth it.
Decent graphics with excellent art direction will always be more memorable than " next gen graphics"
PeteBull
Member
GTA6 is arguably only game that is actual game and on pair the matrix demo, and it will sell a lot, but i understand u, where there is only graphical progress without actual substance, game will usually not sell well, hell we had example of that back in last gen with the order 1886 bombing(bought it for like 30euro few weeks after launch and enjoyed truthfully for what it was, short corridor shooter with crazy graphics
) or hellblade2 this gen 
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Thats where mesh shaders come in. Had they utilized virtualized geometry features in the PS5 hardware, they couldve gotten those small details to render without breaking their GPU power. They just didnt. This was their oppurtunity to show the journos the new features like RT, mesh shaders, etc. but they chose to complain about not having enough power instead. Ive been waiting 2+ years now for GG or KojiPro to give an update on the latest Decima features and when the time finally came to tout its features they said sorry not enough power for us to do anything next gen.
Frankly, these kind of rock details are embarrassing for an AAA studio. Especially when C tier studios were able to pull off better rocks and smaller detail two years ago.
Regardless, had they implemented RTGI, RT Reflections, virtualized geometry, VSM shadows, and still failed to provide a next gen leap then fine, i will give him the benefit of the doubt. At least they tried but the hardware jump was not there to make the game look better despite all this tech and their best effort. But if you dont even try and just raise your hands and say i wont even touch the actual next gen features then you deserve to be called out.
Kojima is my favorite developer of all time. But no he doesnt get a pass for phoning it in.
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yogaflame
Member
Actually, after looking at the picture, the first two picture, Ds2 looks so impressive. It looks better in motion for sure. Cant wait for DS2. Is the technical director just being sarcastic and kidding around? Kojima and his team loves to joke around and make exaggerations, especially when talking about game development.Thats where mesh shaders come in. Had they utilized virtualized geometry features in the PS5 hardware, they couldve gotten those small details to render without breaking their GPU power. They just didnt. This was their oppurtunity to show the journos the new features like RT, mesh shaders, etc. but they chose to complain about not having enough power instead. Ive been waiting 2+ years now for GG or KojiPro to give an update on the latest Decima features and when the time finally came to tout its features they said sorry not enough power for us to do anything next gen.
Frankly, these kind of rock details are embarrassing for an AAA studio. Especially when C tier studios were able to pull off better rocks and smaller detail two years ago.
Regardless, had they implemented RTGI, RT Reflections, virtualized geometry, VSM shadows, and still failed to provide a next gen leap then fine, i will give him the benefit of the doubt. At least they tried but the hardware jump was not there to make the game look better despite all this tech and their best effort. But if you dont even try and just raise your hands and say i wont even touch the actual next gen features then you deserve to be called out.
Kojima is my favorite developer of all time. But no he doesnt get a pass for phoning it in.
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GymWolf
Member
I died when some people were comparing those rocks to the best ue5 rocks.Thats where mesh shaders come in. Had they utilized virtualized geometry features in the PS5 hardware, they couldve gotten those small details to render without breaking their GPU power. They just didnt. This was their oppurtunity to show the journos the new features like RT, mesh shaders, etc. but they chose to complain about not having enough power instead. Ive been waiting 2+ years now for GG or KojiPro to give an update on the latest Decima features and when the time finally came to tout its features they said sorry not enough power for us to do anything next gen.
Frankly, these kind of rock details are embarrassing for an AAA studio. Especially when C tier studios were able to pull off better rocks and smaller detail two years ago.
Regardless, had they implemented RTGI, RT Reflections, virtualized geometry, VSM shadows, and still failed to provide a next gen leap then fine, i will give him the benefit of the doubt. At least they tried but the hardware jump was not there to make the game look better despite all this tech and their best effort. But if you dont even try and just raise your hands and say i wont even touch the actual next gen features then you deserve to be called out.
Kojima is my favorite developer of all time. But no he doesnt get a pass for phoning it in.
Decima won or some shit
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the last two screenshots are from robocop. not ds2.
some of the mountains in the trailer tricked me but these screenshots at the previews are simply last gen.I died when some people were comparing those rocks to the best ue5 rocks.
Decima won or some shit
RodriGames40
Member
Funny thing is, you can't even argue E33 doesn't have good graphics. Not even artstyle related, it's a phenomenal looking game using all of UE5's latest and most advanced features, even Niagara for dense particle effects. If it wasn't by Hellblade 2, just the facial rendering alone would be near top of the line.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
He is a fool then or it is a misunderstood interview.
People might think the games look the same as on ps4... until they play ps4 games again.
-ps5 runs ps4 games at 4k60, while it was 1080p30 on ps4. So that's 4x the resolution and 2x the performance. 8x in total.
-SSD/NVME with VERY fast access to data streaming.
-Much better cpu and gpu of course.
-Rat tracing. Especially on PRO.
This was simply not possible on ps4
People might think the games look the same as on ps4... until they play ps4 games again.
-ps5 runs ps4 games at 4k60, while it was 1080p30 on ps4. So that's 4x the resolution and 2x the performance. 8x in total.
-SSD/NVME with VERY fast access to data streaming.
-Much better cpu and gpu of course.
-Rat tracing. Especially on PRO.
This was simply not possible on ps4
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GymWolf
Member
Those mountains are gonna look like shit when you zoom a little, they never looked ue5 caliber to me.
yogaflame
Member
Yes, I know, I was talking about the two picture on top. For me it looks impressive.
Fbh
Member
GTA6 is arguably only game that is actual game and on pair the matrix demo, and it will sell a lot, but i understand u, where there is only graphical progress without actual substance, game will usually not sell well, hell we had example of that back in last gen with the order 1886 bombing(bought it for like 30euro few weeks after launch and enjoyed truthfully for what it was, short corridor shooter with crazy graphics
Yeah GTA6 is an outlier that works on a set of rules that don't really apply to the rest of the industry. Rockstar can afford to spend $1+ billion on it because this thing will sell 150+ million copies and will be among the best selling games every single month/year for the next 10+ years. It's the same with something like Mario Kart 8 selling 60+ million units, but you wouldn't really suggest the average AAA studio to heavily invest in making Kart racers.
For the average game spending a ton of money on graphics doesn't really seem worth it. Graphics have reached a point where they are "good enough" for most people, no one gave a shit about Avatar, Outlaws, Hellblade 2, Alan Wake 2, etc. People in the posts above are arguing about the rocks in Death Stranding 2 but that's literally irrelevant to the success of the game. If you made a game like TLOU2 for $250 million and sold 10 million units, spending $500 million on your next game isn't really logical if you aren't going to sell substantially more than 10 million units.
CityHunter1981
An Absolute Desaster
I think there is nowhere a big jump anymore. It is only better resolution, better Ray Tracing, better effects these days.
I will never forgot the jump when Nintendo 64 came out, this was a wtf feeling that I never felt again.
I will never forgot the jump when Nintendo 64 came out, this was a wtf feeling that I never felt again.
ABnormal
Member
That's what I'm saying: he is not talking about graphics, he is talking about game features and general tech.
PeteBull
Member
Dat ugly protag tho, u can tell right away in which game DEI was at works and where it was pure masculine creativityHe is a fool then or it is a misunderstood interview.
People might think the games look the same as on ps4... until they play ps4 games again.
-ps5 runs ps4 games at 4k60, while it was 1080p30 on ps4. So that's 4x the resolution and 2x the performance. 8x in total.
-SSD/NVME with VERY fast access to data streaming.
-Much better cpu and gpu of course.
-Rat tracing. Especially on PRO.
This was simply not possible on ps4
cinnamonandgravy
Member
full-blown neural rendering instead of rasterization might do it.
but yeah, mario64 was like controlling magic.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
ugly?Dat ugly protag tho, u can tell right away in which game DEI was at works and where it was pure masculine creativity
Actually gay
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
It's because you're a Nintendo fan, no one who had a Saturn or PS1 2 years before was impressed with the N64.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Something tells me there is far more nuance than the clickbait rage-war title.
PeteBull
Member
Im polish like u, i know Ella Balinska just as good as u do, devs made her dirty with that artrocious model:ugly?
Actually gay
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here is the full quote. he's literally asked what can you do with the PS5 that you couldnt do before and he's like nothing.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
The model is great. She is just not running around naked
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is something we all knew. But there is more nuance in that efficiency statement.
There's no real difference in a 2080 to a 5080 but more "efficiency" either. But it makes for faster pipelines, etc., to get more out of the hardware. Unified shaders are unified shaders.
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PeteBull
Member
I mean game model, looks bad, especially face
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
you are blind. the model is excellent. Both technically and as copy of her into the game
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Except there is a real difference between the 2080 and 5080 which can be easily measured. Its almost 3x more powerful.
The PS5 is almost 8x more powerful, and has support for mesh shaders on top of that. Mesh shaders help devs get around the limitations of unified shaders.
It's actually a very easy question to answer had he invested in mesh shaders, ray tracing, and other features exclusive to the PS5. The fact that he didnt and simply talked about efficiency shows that he very likely didnt. Or maybe he;s being modest and he invested in these features and we just have to wait and see until the game launches. But this was a preview event where he was told to come and market the game, and its very odd for him to say we got nothing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's still the same unified shaders. Still more effient card.Except there is a real difference between the 2080 and 5080 which can be easily measured. Its almost 3x more powerful.
The PS5 is almost 8x more powerful, and has support for mesh shaders on top of that. Mesh shaders help devs get around the limitations of unified shaders.
It's actually a very easy question to answer had he invested in mesh shaders, ray tracing, and other features exclusive to the PS5. The fact that he didnt and simply talked about efficiency shows that he very likely didnt. Or maybe he;s being modest and he invested in these features and we just have to wait and see until the game launches. But this was a preview event where he was told to come and market the game, and its very odd for him to say we got nothing.
That's the gist of it. x86 and RDNA are x86 and RDNA. CUDA is CUDA etc etc, We are in the same paradigm, whether you're on the PC or consoles now. Just faster framerates, and ability to push more resolutions and effects. It's the same damned shader pipelines across their family of more efficient prducts.
It's all diminishing returns from card to card, box to box now. Just pushing better IQ goals.
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PeteBull
Member
Since we are in DS2 thread we can compare her to first DS, on base ps4 aka 1,8tf mashine, compare her model to those:
List of All Real Life Characters in Death Stranding
Death Stranding is the newest game that arrives in the Playstation console. It is a masterpiece of Hideo Kojima after departing from Konami and its Metal Gear Solid creation, one of the best fluid …
gamingph.com
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Pretty much this.
Considering what we've seen on the PS5, this is obvious.
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