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[saintjules]

Is the Director underselling this? I mean everyone reacted to the release date trailer as something that looked graphically more impressive than the first game

News  Thread 'Death Stranding 2: On The Beach Releases June 26th, 2025'

Mar 9, 2025

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...

• Draugoth
• Replies: 738
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[Monado X]

 

[SlimySnake]

It's still the same unified shaders. Still more effient card.

That's the gist of it. x86 and RDNA are x86 and RDNA. CUDA is CUDA etc etc, We are in the same paradigm, whether you're on the PC or consoles now. Just faster framerates, and ability to push more resolutions and effects. It's the same damned shader pipelines across their family of more efficient prducts.

It's all diminishing returns from card to card, box to box now. Just pushing better IQ goals.

But PS4 was GCN 1.1 and did not support primitive shaders or ray tracing, both of which are next gen paradigms. Now again, maybe they used it and we are just not seeing it and that can happen, Doom uses RTGI and its still very last gen looking. But ID Tech engineers went out there and pointed out how they used Ray tracing, enhanced destruction, enhanced volumetric effects, hair strands, massive enemy counts and so much more thanks to the big upgrade in GPU and CPU.

2080 to 5080 is not a good comparison because both cards supported mesh shaders and ray tracing. RDNA2 in the PS5 is completely different from RDNA1 which did not support ray tracing, and GCN1.1 which did not support primitive shaders.

You know what else is a next gen paradigm? Cerny's own SSD and IO. If five years later, his own best friend isnt taking advantage of it then maybe he needs to give him a call. Or maybe Cerny was just doing bullshit PR trying to damage control for the 10 tflops figure like i told you five years ago.

 

[leo-j]

The focus on resolution is part of it. Going from 1080p to 2160p is taxing on the GPU. Especially with improved visuals and sustained performance.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But PS4 was GCN 1.1 and did not support primitive shaders or ray tracing, both of which are next gen paradigms. Now again, maybe they used it and we are just not seeing it and that can happen, Doom uses RTGI and its still very last gen looking. But ID Tech engineers went out there and pointed out how they used Ray tracing, enhanced destruction, enhanced volumetric effects, hair strands, massive enemy counts and so much more thanks to the big upgrade in GPU and CPU.

2080 to 5080 is not a good comparison because both cards supported mesh shaders and ray tracing. RDNA2 in the PS5 is completely different from RDNA1 which did not support ray tracing, and GCN1.1 which did not support primitive shaders.

You know what else is a next gen paradigm? Cerny's own SSD and IO. If five years later, his own best friend isnt taking advantage of it then maybe he needs to give him a call. Or maybe Cerny was just doing bullshit PR trying to damage control for the 10 tflops figure like i told you five years ago.

We are still

But PS4 was GCN 1.1 and did not support primitive shaders or ray tracing, both of which are next gen paradigms. Now again, maybe they used it and we are just not seeing it and that can happen, Doom uses RTGI and its still very last gen looking. But ID Tech engineers went out there and pointed out how they used Ray tracing, enhanced destruction, enhanced volumetric effects, hair strands, massive enemy counts and so much more thanks to the big upgrade in GPU and CPU.

2080 to 5080 is not a good comparison because both cards supported mesh shaders and ray tracing. RDNA2 in the PS5 is completely different from RDNA1 which did not support ray tracing, and GCN1.1 which did not support primitive shaders.

You know what else is a next gen paradigm? Cerny's own SSD and IO. If five years later, his own best friend isnt taking advantage of it then maybe he needs to give him a call. Or maybe Cerny was just doing bullshit PR trying to damage control for the 10 tflops figure like i told you five years ago.

So what's your argument?

Is the PS5 not more powerful than the PS4? Is it not pushing better resolutions, textures, framerates, effects, etc., not unlike the PC and their generations of cards for the same games we all have access to?

It's same/same, just more efficiency to get better performance/effects out of the same games with the same textures, etc..

 

[ProtoByte]

Sony should revoke financial support and Decima Engine from KojiPro.

 

[SlimySnake]

The focus on resolution is part of it. Going from 1080p to 2160p is taxing on the GPU. Especially with improved visuals and sustained performance.

Yep. He went from 720p 30 fps in MGSV's PS3 version to 1080p 30 fps in DS1. Doubled the resolution and kept the framerate the same.

This time around it seems he's going for native 4k 30 fps and 1440p 60 fps. Thats 4x the resolution at 30 fps, and 2x the resolution plus 2x wasted on doubling the framerate to 60 fps. No wonder he's complaining that the jump isnt great. he's only utilizing 2.5 of the 10 tflops to push visual fidelity. The rest is wasted on rendering 4k pixels.

As sharp as the fidelity-focused Quality Mode looks, I highly recommend switching to Performance Mode. The game looks and plays fantastically when running at a smooth 60 frames per second, and it's worth taking the relatively small graphical hit, as frequent grass pop-in is the only major drawback I've noticed. Everything still looks gorgeous either way, and it's worth noting I played the game on a base PS5.

 

[Bitstream]

We are still

So what's your argument?

Is the PS5 not more powerful than the PS4? Is it not pushing better resolutions and framerates, not unlike the PC and their generations of cards for the same games we all have access to?

It's same/same, just more efficiency to get better performance/effects out of the same games with the same textures, etc..

Your argument seems overly reductive. We have been putting pixels on screens for over 50 years.... by your logic the only difference between the PS5 and the NES is the amount of pixels and framerate.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Your argument seems overly reductive. We have been putting pixels on screens for over 50 years.... by your logic the only difference between the PS5 and the NES is the amount of pixels and framerate.

The entire thread title is overly reductive as well.

We are in an era of unified shaders and the way of developing games and graphical API pipelines so they can work on a myriad of scalable devices.

To say this is just a "PS5" issue, is just being silly. This is an all systems of gaming issue. Even more so since they're all on the same development paradigms and hardware now.

 

[SlimySnake]

The entire thread title is overly reductive as well.

We are in an era of unified shaders and the way of developing games and graphical API pipelines so they can work on a myriad of scalable devices.

To say this is just a "PS5" issue, is just being silly. This is an all systems of gaming issue. Even more so since they're all in the same development paradigms and hardware now.

No one is saying this is a PS5 issue. not sure why you took it that way.

We are all saying that the PS5 is much more powerful. We have seen games like AC Shadows push RTGI, virtualized geometry, incredible hair and destruction physics, weather simulations, and much much more on the PS5. GTA6 is doing so much more. Avatar, Wukong, and SH2 all push the PS5 to its limits.

The only one putting down the PS5 is the guy who got paid millions of dollars by Playstation and was given 6 years to utilize these next gen features.

 

[Fafalada]

Most games are still possible on a PS4

Let's be honest - if you attach a HDD to the console, most games are still possible on everything dating back to DC.
Visual fidelity aside, there's little to nothing mechanically prohibitive in modern games - sheer scale of something like GTA6 would be pushing it - but that's a rare outlier, not par for the course, and even that has nuances to consider.

What about ray tracing? What about mesh shader support? Neither of which were supported on the PS4. Why didnt his team utilize those features when nearly every big AAA game utilizes them.

I mean - they are using 3rd party middleware, so the question would be to GG first.
Also for specific hw-features used it seems highly speculative - the landscape fidelity looks like any other virtualized geometry solution this gen, which would certainly benefit from mesh-shaders (just because Nanite doesn't depend on it - doesn't mean it's not used here). And RTGI is certainly something I 'know' GG has been experimenting with back around FW launch date - this being the first game on the engine since then it may very well use it for all we know.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No one is saying this is a PS5 issue. not sure why you took it that way.

We are all saying that the PS5 is much more powerful. We have seen games like AC Shadows push RTGI, virtualized geometry, incredible hair and destruction physics, weather simulations, and much much more on the PS5. GTA6 is doing so much more. Avatar, Wukong, and SH2 all push the PS5 to its limits.

The only one putting down the PS5 is the guy who got paid millions of dollars by Playstation and was given 6 years to utilize these next gen features.

Ah, now I see what you're saying now.

Yeah, this all comes down to cost/investment/risks/talent/desires, etc..

 

[SlimySnake]

I mean - they are using 3rd party middleware, so the question would be to GG first.

Nah, KojiPro has write access to Decima. This was heavily publicized when the first game came out with GG pointing out how KojiPro programmers would have their own commits in the engine pretty much immediately after they were given access to it. The character model upgrades and cinematics improvements were a direct result of KojiPro making enhancements to Decima.

Which is why im surprised that 6 years later, the technical director isnt boasting about their new RTGI or even Software based realtime GI solution, or support for mesh shaders. Nothing. You have two of the most talented sony studios both working on one engine at the same time and neither added support for ray tracing or primitive shaders? in SIX years? What?

I was super excited to finally hear some good old tech talk by kojipro at the preview event, but we got nothing. Except for them making excuses for why the game doesnt have a big generational upgrade. Very odd. Especially considering how Kojima used to literally have events to show off the upgrades to the Fox Engine.

I am hoping against hope that im wrong and they have added all these features and just chose not to talk about it, but when i hear dumb shit like how the jump from PS4 to PS5 isnt that big, i have to call it out.

 

[mckmas8808]

Nah, KojiPro has write access to Decima. This was heavily publicized when the first game came out with GG pointing out how KojiPro programmers would have their own commits in the engine pretty much immediately after they were given access to it. The character model upgrades and cinematics improvements were a direct result of KojiPro making enhancements to Decima.

Which is why im surprised that 6 years later, the technical director isnt boasting about their new RTGI or even Software based realtime GI solution, or support for mesh shaders. Nothing. You have two of the most talented sony studios both working on one engine at the same time and neither added support for ray tracing or primitive shaders? in SIX years? What?

I was super excited to finally hear some good old tech talk by kojipro at the preview event, but we got nothing. Except for them making excuses for why the game doesnt have a big generational upgrade. Very odd. Especially considering how Kojima used to literally have events to show off the upgrades to the Fox Engine.

I am hoping against hope that im wrong and they have added all these features and just chose not to talk about it, but when i hear dumb shit like how the jump from PS4 to PS5 isnt that big, i have to call it out.

Totally Agree!!! It's a weird way for him to answer that question, considering we all know what the PS5 can do compared to the PS4. There must be something lost in translation.

 

[TheChadOfGaming]

true and based

 

[Fafalada]

Nah, KojiPro has write access to Decima.

There's a world of difference between enhancing cinematic workflows vs. rewriting the lighting engine or geometry pipeline. And having some - intimate - experiences with multiple high end engine source bases and what it looked like getting larger changes into trunk - even if KojiPro wants to build such changes, I wouldn't assume there's an easy path to get them into mainline (if at all).
Moreover - let's not forget we're talking about a small indie studio - the amount of spend available for building custom tech is massively more limited than what teams in Konami could afford. They chose 3rd party tech for a reason - not just because Sony's publishing, and their focus is on building games/content not rendering tech.

Which is why im surprised that 6 years later, the technical director isnt boasting about their new RTGI or even Software based realtime GI solution, or support for mesh shaders. Nothing. You have two of the most talented sony studios both working on one engine at the same time and neither added support for ray tracing or primitive shaders? in SIX years? What?

My point was that there's evidence supporting the latter is there, and the former is rather likely based on what I know. But there's been no new titles shipped on the engine in 4 years so...

but when i hear dumb shit like how the jump from PS4 to PS5 isnt that big, i have to call it out.

Like I said in my original post - relative to what generational jumps used to look like, it's kind of true - so if he took that lens...
From PR perspective it's a pretty dumb take regardless though - not disagreeing there.

 

[Clear]

Totally Agree!!! It's a weird way for him to answer that question, considering we all know what the PS5 can do compared to the PS4. There must be something lost in translation.

The context of the quote is below:

"Having said that, our artists are less restrained to create the world, without having to come up with level workarounds. But of course this freedom has had knock-on effects, and technical challenges for the programmers. In some ways, it's created an environment where the artists are now out of control."

It seems to me that he's basically saying how things have changed in a general process sense across the generation.

I don't think he's talking about comparative feature-set in the engine. He's speaking generally about workflow, which is why efficiency and load-times are the key changes.

I think people forget that not everyone is trying to upsell their tech! The key part in the quote I posted is that he specifically mentions "workarounds". A workaround is what you do to achieve the desired result when it cannot be created by direct means. Obvious example, using LOD-ing because although ideally you'd draw everything at its max level of detail all the time (because that's the most exact way to simulate reality), you don't because its wasteful and resources are finite.

His answer is actually just honest; "reality" in graphics, which is the thing that's generally being striven towards, has been creatable -approximately- for years now. All that's really changed is how many workarounds were in the way. Technology is not like stats on trading cards, there are no prizes (no matter what DF tells you) for using every feature and technique known! The primary goal is always to facilitate the depiction of the game concept.

 

[Steve Holt]

He must be very relieved he isn't having to work with the Series S in that case

 

[nkill20]

If you want to push graphics you go for 30 fps period.

 

[Beechos]

Sounds about right. Not much this gen that looks like it can't be dont on last gen consoles cept for maybe hellblade 2.

 

[MMaRsu]

Tell that to Rockstar

 

[LakeOf9]

You just need devs who are willing to put in the effort and not phone in graphics after a 6 year dev cycle. kojima along with nearly all Japanese devs are hooked on jerking off to Hentai porn instead of actually working for a change.

Jesus Christ, and you expect your bullshit to be taken seriously

 

[Esppiral]

Thanks Sherlock.

 

[Msamy]

Sounds about right. Not much this gen that looks like it can't be dont on last gen consoles cept for maybe hellblade 2.

Lol, Avatar, Ac Shadows, gta vi, fable and others that I don't remember even some AA Games like robocop use the graphics features of current gen consoles unlike Sony studios which stacked with last gen bullshit techniques except insomniac

 

[nial]

And from PS5 to PS6 will be even worse. That's why i don't get people who keep saying PS6 should be out in 2027. Literally no need for that.

Because I want that handheld as soon as possible.

 

[nial]

Sony should revoke financial support and Decima Engine from KojiPro.

I miss when you weren't saying nonsense like this all the time.

Jesus Christ, and you expect your bullshit to be taken seriously

What did you expect? Guy was always a dumbass.

 

[onQ123]

Once programmable shaders & compute rendering came into the picture there really isn't much that you can do on new hardware that's not possible on the older hardware. You just can do it a lot better now.

But the SSD as standard in consoles opened up new possibilities that was closed off after we moved to Disc & HDD .

Devs haven't pushed PS5 to the limit because no one is buying/downloading 500GB + games taking up all their storage space .

 

[ZehDon]

Lol to think that everybody here claimed back in 2020 that it was a giant leap now that next gen consoles were equipped with a SSD and decent cpu. This gen has been a huge letdown

Say what you will, but the PS5 SSD memes were just terrific. Not quite as good as the Banderas memes of the PS4, but a valiant effort in their own right. And the end result has ultimately been... acceptable load times. Brilliant PR, really.

 

[Beechos]

Lol, Avatar, Ac Shadows, gta vi, fable and others that I don't remember even some AA Games like robocop use the graphics features of current gen consoles unlike Sony studios which stacked with last gen bullshit techniques except ininsomniac

2 of those games you mentioned haven't even come out yet who knows how close they will look like to their trailers. Those other games mentioned can all run on a steamdeck including hellbalde 2. There's nothing fundamentally different about the games cept for better performance and some nicer shadows/reflections. It's not like parts of the game had to be cut or completely changed in order to get it to run on a steamdeck which is comparable to last gen console performance.

 

[CLW]

If it's so efficient why are studios soooooo damn bloated with budgets exploding

 

[OuterLimits]

Mid generation Pro systems make the leap each generation even less impressive now. I expect cross gen to last even longer next generation.

 

[Trab-Pu-Kcip]

Are we shure that is not another case of miss translation from Japanese and built a click bait article upon it?

 

[Msamy]

2 of those games you mentioned haven't even come out yet who knows how close they will look like to their trailers. Those other games mentioned can all run on a steamdeck including hellbalde 2. There's nothing fundamentally different about the games cept for better performance and some nicer shadows/reflections. It's not like parts of the game had to be cut or completely changed in order to get it to run on a steamdeck which is comparable to last gen console performance.

yes yes

 

[Klosshufvud]

In Cyberpunk 2077, going from 720p-900p 20-30fps to 1200p-1800p 50-60fps on PS5 is a hell of an efficiency.

Surprisingly (not) for supposedly knowledgeable posters the difference between GTX660 (at best) and RTX2070 is almost nothing.

My thoughts exactly. For supposedly such a small jump, PS5 games look and play far better than PS3->PS4. Last gen was truly underwhelming in terms of specs.

 

[yogaflame]

Are we shure that is not another case of miss translation from Japanese and built a click bait article upon it?

Looks like a lost in translation. But what matters is DS2 looks so great and allot weather and new disasters and environmental obstacles and new enemies and more combat. And night and day mode will be so cool.

 

[Bernardougf]

It's because you keep pushing for 60fps garbage instead of pushing boundaries in other ways

 

[Team Andromeda]

I see big jumps in graphics over last gen, its just the number is on the low side.

I said at the start of the gen the real massive jump this gen is the support of HDMI 2.1 and you need a decent TV for that.
VRR is a total game changer

 

[Joramun]

he's not wrong

 

[NeonGhost]

I see big jumps in graphics over last gen, its just the number is on the low side.

I said at the start of the gen the real massive jump this gen is the support of HDMI 2.1 and you need a decent TV for that.
VRR is a total game changer

Only if Sony could fix their broken vrr

 

[DenchDeckard]

I feel something is lost in translation here.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Only if Sony could fix their broken vrr

I still have my old Sunset Overdrive white Xbox set up to an old TV, along with my white Destiny PS4, and it's painful to play those systems now with no VRR support Ect
VRR for me has been a massive game changer this gen for the console player and there's also been a few games that graphically blow away the last gen.
Yes, they are few and far between,n but that's more to blame on the developer side than the hardware.

 

[mckmas8808]

The context of the quote is below:

"Having said that, our artists are less restrained to create the world, without having to come up with level workarounds. But of course this freedom has had knock-on effects, and technical challenges for the programmers. In some ways, it's created an environment where the artists are now out of control."

It seems to me that he's basically saying how things have changed in a general process sense across the generation.

I don't think he's talking about comparative feature-set in the engine. He's speaking generally about workflow, which is why efficiency and load-times are the key changes.

I think people forget that not everyone is trying to upsell their tech! The key part in the quote I posted is that he specifically mentions "workarounds". A workaround is what you do to achieve the desired result when it cannot be created by direct means. Obvious example, using LOD-ing because although ideally you'd draw everything at its max level of detail all the time (because that's the most exact way to simulate reality), you don't because its wasteful and resources are finite.

His answer is actually just honest; "reality" in graphics, which is the thing that's generally being striven towards, has been creatable -approximately- for years now. All that's really changed is how many workarounds were in the way. Technology is not like stats on trading cards, there are no prizes (no matter what DF tells you) for using every feature and technique known! The primary goal is always to facilitate the depiction of the game concept.

Everything you said is true. But look at the quote in the OP. That's a weird answer, when you consider what you bolded....don't you think? "The jump from PS4 to Ps5 isn't so great, it's just more efficient". That's an odd quote to me considering what we know about the systems.

That's why I still think we are losing something in translation.

 

[NeonGhost]

I still have my old Sunset Overdrive white Xbox set up to an old TV, along with my white Destiny PS4, and it's painful to play those systems now with no VRR support Ect
VRR for me has been a massive game changer this gen for the console player and there's also been a few games that graphically blow away the last gen.
Yes, they are few and far between,n but that's more to blame on the developer side than the hardware.

Theres literally a vrr bug right now on PlayStation consoles that causes a stutter every 8 seconds

 

[GymWolf]

Here is the full quote. he's literally asked what can you do with the PS5 that you couldnt do before and he's like nothing.

Not even with the ssd secret sauce?

 

[GymWolf]

Lol, Avatar, Ac Shadows, gta vi, fable and others that I don't remember even some AA Games like robocop use the graphics features of current gen consoles unlike Sony studios which stacked with last gen bullshit techniques except insomniac

Some rtx reflections are not gonna separe insomniac from the bunch.

 

[SlimySnake]

Not even with the ssd secret sauce?

that was always bullshit. i called it the day he spent 30 minutes on it. it was never going to improve graphics. just allow devs to do some very specific flying and portal sequences we saw in ratchet and spiderman.

i got a lot of shit for saying this but instead of investing in a 5.5 gbps ssd and doing all that work on IO, shouldve just released a faster GPU.

 

[mitch1971]

Ps5pro is a more efficient version of a more efficient version of a Ps4 so I'd say it all depends on how efficient you want Death Stranding 2 to be.

A more effecient answer is : Yes.

 

[Karim]

"The most obvious improvement from a technological point of view is the reduction in loading times, but to be honest, the difference between the two hardware systems isn't so great," he says. "It's more a case that on PS5 there are more efficient ways of arriving at similar goals.

Death Stranding 2 technical director says that the jump from PS4 to PS5 "isn't so great," it's just "more efficient"

"It’s more a case that on PS5 there are more efficient ways of arriving at similar goals"

www.gamesradar.com

It's their excuse for the same dull gameplay mechanics?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

More than 2-3x the raster power, more than 3-4x CPU power over the PS4, bleeding edge SSD technology, advanced feature set with Mesh/Primitive Shaders & Ray-tracing.

but it's only "mOre eFFeciEnT" ?

 

[Fafalada]

that was always bullshit. i called it the day he spent 30 minutes on it. it was never going to improve graphics. just allow devs to do some very specific flying and portal sequences we saw in ratchet and spiderman.

Paradigm shifts are difficult.
Eg. we're still waiting for the 'RT' paradigm shift to happen (it took 7 years for 'rt native' software to start shipping, and even there it's roll of dice if it's actually differentiating), and that was one most people agreed was 'supposed' to happen.
I/O one was a bet that didn't pan out yet (the whole 'specific flying sequences' is completely antithetical to what this was supposed to unlock, so it shows it isn't there, even in supposed showcases - but then again same things happened to early RT showcases like Control). But it doesn't mean the potential isn't there - once Switch 2 raises the baseline thanks to it being a SSD class target too, and post PS6 launch most deadweight in the hw-tail will finally be gone, so the shift is likely to happen.