I can attest to that. It was concerning to me that that was the mantra when I simply wanted Dems to listen and potentially include my concerns as a minority at the table. I don't like feeling held hostage. Dems have to move left or else people who are just as fed up as me but aren't willing to keep voting for the "one option that doesn't fuck me over but also doesn't do anything for me" will just stop altogether. And then the Dems and the left are just outright fucked all together. That or maybe a real left party will form in this damnable country for once.
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Democrats are losing their most loyal voters: Black Women
- Thread starter Angelus Errare
- Start date
I can attest to that. It was concerning to me that that was the mantra when I simply wanted Dems to listen and potentially include my concerns as a minority at the table. I don't like feeling held hostage. Dems have to move left or else people who are just as fed up as me but aren't willing to keep voting for the "one option that doesn't fuck me over but also doesn't do anything for me" will just stop altogether. And then the Dems and the left are just outright fucked all together. That or maybe a real left party will form in this damnable country for once.
I don't like the way the survey was represented. The question should have been "do you feel this party represents you". When the question is "which party represents you the best", none shouldn't be an answe because by saying which parting represents you the best it's saying which of the available parties represents you the best even if you feel all parties represent you shittily
If that was the actual question I'd be shocked if it wasn't 100%
If that was the actual question I'd be shocked if it wasn't 100%
The other thing is figuring out how much all of the party has in common and focusing on those issues. Police brutality and murder doesn't HAVE to be framed as a black issue. Hispanics are shot disproportionately by the police as well. Native Americans are, too. Even whites get shot by bad cops, especially if they're deaf or mentally ill. Recognition on the part of whites that civil rights issues aren't just minority issues helps. And understanding that economic issue are also moral and racial issues helps, too. Everyone needs healthcare. Everyone needs safety and protection and a force that can do that without accidentally shooting citizens. And income inequality is also an issue that has too often been poorly framed and treated as a white issue, which I find bizarre, since minorities are more heavily damaged by it.
We have a ton of common ground. We need a candidate that finds it, frames the issues correctly so that they clearly include all of the coalition, and is willing to fight. Charisma certainly wouldn't hurt, but even more importantly is someone who can remind us that we share many of the same values, and we don't have to share all of them to create an effective political coalition.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
If we had full adult access to voting the current GOP platform would be a losing one and maybe we'd have room for a substantive third party presence. This isn't going to happen though. The Democrat leaders would do themselves a favor reading your post.
nelsonroyale
Member
I mean this is not too surprising and probably needed. No group has been worse served by Republicans or Democrats than black female voters, especially single mothers. It is good to get away from going default and demanding to be heard more clearly by those who would pursue your vote. The democratic party needs to change.
Hollomat: Agreed, the question is too narrow, and forecloses wider and more productive inference.
Hollomat: Agreed, the question is too narrow, and forecloses wider and more productive inference.
Whatever you say, buddy. What he said has rings true, whether you agree or disagree with anything else that has come out of his mouth.
CrocMother
Banned
We've all got so much more in common than we have differences. The ruling class of this country loves to see us tear each other apart over our minor differences.
Whenever i go down that road I feel like Im being a conspiracy theorist.. That said; if we stopped and stepped back for a fucking second we would realize this is a matter of the "haves" vs the "have nots".
Without saying too much.
No, because annoying things like survey quality get in the way of righteousness.
CrocMother
Banned
That's not a conspiracy, that's the history of this country.
teruterubozu
Member
Who or what is this "Democratic party" anymore? Hillary? The DNC? Bernie? Nancy Pelosi? Us? Its identity has totally been torn apart. We point at this bogeyman - the Democratic party - and nobody seems to know what it is anymore.
Renegade Frost
Banned
\\
Soooo are we just gonna ignore the fact that white women went to bat for Trump?
because he is black is why that happened
TFYM?
Obama delivered in spades.
Thats why the GOP lost their shit and the Tea Party took over by 2010
We're talking domestic, but sure. You can throw a burning tire fire into whatever conversation with that out.
Ok, buddy. When you can come back with a revised Killer Mike that didn't tell people to not vote when his candidate lost before the main event, then you can bring that cowards name back to the ring. Until then, he's no soothsayer, he's no truth sayer. He's said nothing of worth that a thousand others haven't said before him with a more relevant position for their time. Killer Mike is no Hero. He got his and said so plainly that he would be fine when it all falls apart. Fuck Killer Mike.
CyclopsRock
Member
Well yeah, obviously they are. They need more votes than they got last time, they can only do that by convincing people who didn't vote Democrat last time to vote Democrat this time.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think getting rid of FPTP voting would be a good step in helping their voices find better representation.
IrishNinja
Member
FOH with this - we're years out of a national election, and every time we have one of those, black women literally show up in droves to vote dem while white men & women by large stay voting GOP regardless of how heinous trump is...yet as is discussed here, they're consistently the first group thrown under the bus when even bernie is on about "identity politics" and bullshit lines like this
the prison industrial system, a police & criminal justice system still set in the jim crow era, redlining, income disparity, heavy voter disenfranchisement & an entire administration entirely bent on walking back the meager accomplishments blacks have seen in recent american eras - and this is the best you think the left can call for?
TL;DR you don't "get it" even one iota
fortunately, you & that base had next to nothing to do with black women, as evident from your (& dear bernie)'s continued bemoaning of anything concerning them as "identity politics"
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Losing them to WHO?
Who have they found that they can rally behind and feels like they're interested in any of their problems?
Are they voting Comservative/Libertarian in the midterms or something?
Who have they found that they can rally behind and feels like they're interested in any of their problems?
Are they voting Comservative/Libertarian in the midterms or something?
RoninChaos
Member
Exactly. People keep composing but don't show up to vote. Abstaining from that means you don't get heard. People keep thinking not voting will get their voices heard. That's not how this works.
boiled goose
good with gravy
It's not a two party problem. It's the two Parties that are the problem. Neither represents their base, but donors instead.
But sure, keep people like Pelosi and Schumer as leaders because they are good at big donor fundraising.
Sure, ignore the massive legislative victories Schumer and Pelops achieved literally weeks ago to fit your narrative
excelsiorlef
Member
This is just getting silly you're like the third one who is trying trying to insert their usual talking points into this context... you should probably just not, it makes you look foolish or as I said earlier some sort of Turing Test AI
Pelosi and Schumer are not the cause of this issue, do you actually understand what Pelosi and Schumer's jobs are?
As has been said multiple times in this thread, not voting Dem doesn't mean voting Republican.
If the lives of black people don't improve under Democrats and their lives surely don't improve under Republicans, what incentive is there for them to care about either party?
And no I'm not trying to say Democrats are the same as Republicans, but if neither party focuses on helping black people or tries to court them and hear their grievances, then I don't blame black people for not being enthused about blindly throwing their support behind Dems. One of the things that's absolutely pissed me off post-election is seeing some liberals try to pin Hillary's loss and the current state of the country on black people (of all people) and I imagine shit like that does a lot to demotivate people.
I'm confused. some of those same left winger on GAF told me in order to win election, it was okay to go backwards on women issue in red states. Now when black women say they are leaving, it the Democrats fault, not the progressives? It was the progressive that said that we don't need those red state and black voters (which Bernie lost), but some how the the Democrat fault?
Until Bernie drops his independent status and joins the party, he is not a Democrat. Being an outsider and tearing down all the progress the Dems have made of decades makes him just a dangerous to moving forward as Repubs. Working within the party would do a world of wonder for party unity.
Progressives, a portion of them anyway, dont know what they want, they just know they want you to know that they want something.
They are the various disparate, and sometimes opposing, groups that the Republicans hate and want to kill off. It's hatred that unites the Republican side, and survival that traditionally united the Democratic side. Problem is the lines on the Democratic side have become pretty stark.
old manatee
Banned
In retrospect I think this is partly because there were only two serious candidates in the 2016 primary, so we ended up with the same toxic civil war that the general election always falls victim to.
I hope the next primary has Harris, Booker, Sanders, Warren, Biden, and I even hope Clinton gives it another shot. Both of them. I want a bunch of people with different viewpoints this time.
He felt the candidate that got the nod wasn't going to do anything of worth for blacks other than a few PR shots, which she did. Hot Sauce and The Wobble, baby! So I have no problem with him saying not to vote for Hillary. None whatsoever. Seeing where she campaigned primarily throughout the majority of the race (New York & California) after she lost showed how much effort she actually put in. Trump stumped in way more places than she did. It was probably the most work he's ever done in his life, and she couldn't be bothered to match his output.
As for him saying nothing of worth, telling black people to put money in black banks and patronize black businesses in order to have that money circulate in the black community instead of putting it in the hands of those who do NOTHING for us, is nothing of worth? That type of shit bears repeating, especially if the thousands before him aren't reaching enough people. But he didn't pass your purity test, so fuck him. It takes more guts to say don't vote for somebody that doesn't appear to have your best interests at heart than it does to fall back and tell everybody to fall in line. It's nice to see that sentiment is resonating.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
There is a section of the progressive movement in America that is convinced, absolutely, that a ton of the country is both very progressive and completely disaffected and if the Democrats ran hard left they'd see a groundswell of support
I...do not agree with this view
Black turnout was down fairly considerably across the board. If the option between Hillary Clinton and a racist old whtie man whos father was in the KKK isnt enough to get black voters out then im not sure anything is. As much as people dont want to hear it, recapturing the part of the white blue color demographic that voted democrat for decades is key to regaining the white house in 2020.
this is absolutely absurd.
this is absolutely absurd.
I mean, this is all true, but it's not really a solution. It's speaking to the problem. And waging fingers at entire voting blocs never works. People need to be appealed to.
And what makes me want to pull my hair out is that the solution is so obvious. We've seen it before. Democrats need to start boosting politicians who meet one of the following criteria:
A) A charismatic minority politician who can speak to minority issues without speaking to minority issues. Like Barack Obama (and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson before him). Barack was able to pull together the Democratic coalition without scaring white people with overt and pesky talk about equality for people of color, because his support for minorities was more or less implied. Luckily, we have several prominent candidates preparing for 2020 who meet this criteria.
B) A white politician who has done the goddamn work to appeal to minority voters BEFORE an election year! This is so simple it makes me want to slam my head in a wall. Democrats want the minority vote, but don't want to treat us like an actual constituency. No, just show up in an election year talking the same shit that every white politician who has done nothing for us talked before, and then wonder why we don't bite. Because we don't know you, we don't believe you. Black voters don't need your constant attention in an election year, but we do need you to show up at some point. Come to our communities. Work with prominent minority voices. Get the fuck off of Pod Save America and go actually talk to some black and brown folk! Far left "progressives" want black people to buy the message? Ok, well where the fuck are you? The more you talk about minority issues before an election year, the less you have to during (which seems to be the thing that's turning off white voters). Funny enough, the politician I'm describing right now is '08 Hillary Clinton (had there not been a Barack Obama).
And the white politician who I honestly feel would have the easiest time doing this, but who I sadly don't hear any 2020 rumors about, is goofy ass Tim Kaine. Fight me.
Catch phrases like "purity test" are lazy. Killer Mike did all that he could to be divisive after his candidate lost, and told people to not show up. Bottom line. And when pressed about it, he told everyone to fuck off, he's rich and won't be affected either way. Bottom line. Dude stopped looking for a solution and actively became part of the problem with his platform. The both are the same argument was bullshit then, and we damn sure know it is now.
And one of the reasons for that lack of turnout was voter suppression; the gutting of the voting rights act and Trump literally signing up poll watchers to intimidate minority voters. So with all those in the mix, it's no surprise turnout was lower.
If Democrats can't even protect the right to vote, Black people who are considering abstaining have that right to do so. Hypothetically speaking, if they recaptured the white blue-collar demographic, they wouldn't win elections if people like me can't vote.
At this point, the focus seems on capturing that white vote at the cost of minority voters. We know that we can't win elections by ourselves, but it's always patronizing when someone (not talking about you here) brings up unity and it's always Black people who are expected to give an inch more when we're already a millimeter from the cliff.
Someone else mentioned a minority candidate who can dog whistle for our rights. And if we're reaching a point where Black people and other minorities can't talk about our issues without offending potential white voters, then that's not a party I and many others want to be a part of.
There's only so much that can be done when it comes to speaking generally because we've reached a point where specific demographics face hurdles because of factors due to race and one size fits all isn't going to work here. For example, Bernie Sanders talking about free higher education being an equalizer when Black students are suspended at more than twice the rate of white peers, are funneled into school to prison pipelines and our names and hairstyles for Black women are deemed unprofessional and unhireable. Those issues are ones that need to be talked about, and I'm sure many people would agree and want to address those systemic issues.
As a Black person, I can tell you that our community is exasperated at this point, and if people aren't willing to learn a lesson and ensure that our needs are met marginally speaking and protecting our right to vote, the next big election will be met with an even more depressed turnout, and to understand this issue, the DNC just had to meet with and form a broad coalition and they just refuse. It's almost like they want to lose at this point, and we get scapegoated for it.
I'm going to add on to a) that Obama was really good at subtly pandering to those populist white voters in the midwest w/ how he talked about both trade and race on the campaign trail.
Kaine just doesn't have the baseline charisma you need to make it out of the starting gate. Everyone knew Warner was the one of the two VA senators with Presidential ambitions but I think at some point the combination of Clinton crowding people out in '16 and his personal background would be a bad fit for a modern primary electorate.
I feel like the party's in a more racially progressive place after last year than any time since the 1980s, including the years when an actual black man was President.
As much as Ferguson awoke the sleeping giant of white supremacy in the country, it also made leaders on the left take notice. Not all of them, and not as much as they should, but the party's reacting positively.
As much as Ferguson awoke the sleeping giant of white supremacy in the country, it also made leaders on the left take notice. Not all of them, and not as much as they should, but the party's reacting positively.
How can you so accurately cherry pick my posts with your head in the sand? Your hard on for Killer Mike is pretty fucking sad. Seek help.
Hillary happens to love hot sauce and has kept some in the purse with her for the past 20+ years.....
The Faceless Master
Member
Good.
Everyone else is going to from something to nothing. Black Women will survive. Let's see others adapt.
You are clueless. Obama only had a Congressional majority for two years until people voted it away from under him. And they managed to pass the ACA and the stimulus package in that time.
If Americans think one man can fix all of our country's problems within two years, and are willing to throw a spiteful temper tantrum if everything isn't magically all better by then, then we deserve a garbage government.
Since when is reaffirming a previous statement cherry picking at your comment? I'm good on seeking help though, and you can keep your personal shots at me to yourself because i don't like your dude. Thanks for your concern.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yes it does. This is the reality of your two-party system, as much as it sucks. Denying it won't change the reality.
Exactly. And, as backslashbunny points out, when that happens, everyone suffers (except rich whites).
And this is the real rub. The only people panicking here are those that are used to the status quo. Now that nobody's propping them up anymore, sphincters are predictably clenching.
excelsiorlef
Member
Nah....
Like you realize that you can't just get mad at the Establishment here and say it's all on them like you probably do everywhere else right?
This isn't about The Establishment or even the Status Quo it's about a fear post election of a shift away from black women... A lot of that shift is coming as much from the Sanders wing as anywhere else.
Like as much fun as it is for you to get mad at folks Pelosi and Schumer, who do their jobs, this isn't really a place where you should be pointing at them, because it ain't them.
If you think that Nina Turner and Keith Ellison are the reason these black women aren't happy with the Democrats...
You're wrong.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Between 2012 and 2016, Black turnout fell from 66.6% to 59.6%. Hispanic turnout fell from 48.0% to 47.6%. NYT exit polls have black voters shifting 7% points toward Trump and Hispanic voters shifting 8% points toward Trump.
Maybe there should be a lot more focus on that. I guess it gets ignored because people assumed it would happen without having the first black president to vote for, but is that really all there is too it? Even with trump being on the other end of the ticket?
I think there was some math to show that increasing it to obama numbers of minority turnout/vote would have still barely not been enough to change the result, but maybe that doesn't mean there's not something there to ask how democrats can do better.
Maybe there should be a lot more focus on that. I guess it gets ignored because people assumed it would happen without having the first black president to vote for, but is that really all there is too it? Even with trump being on the other end of the ticket?
I think there was some math to show that increasing it to obama numbers of minority turnout/vote would have still barely not been enough to change the result, but maybe that doesn't mean there's not something there to ask how democrats can do better.
excelsiorlef
Member
2% for each.... from a whopping 6 to 8 for Black folk and from a back breaking 27 to 29 for Hispanics.
There was no Trump minority waive
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2012/
If the two options are a) doing fuck all for you b) a brick to the face. I get not wanting to campaign and carry water for fuck all but it's a fuck tonne better than brick to the face.
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