Kor of Memory
Member
Yet Sniper Rifle kills have double the numbers of Scout Rifles?
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Destiny |OT20| HoW Comes, No Raid?
- Thread starter DrDrizzay101
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Yet Sniper Rifle kills have double the numbers of Scout Rifles?
GuitarAtomik
Member
This is true too. I always ran scout on Bastion and First Light, but I haven't played those maps in forever since they relegated them to certain playlists.
It's probably a result of people not running with scouts period. I'd say at this point, you are more likely to see people with a sniper rifle than a scout since those same people are probably using a hand cannon as primary, while the people with shotguns are also running with a hand cannon since it has a similar viable range.
noomi
Member
No
But some guy did manage to build it out of legos... hey it's something!I have W3 pre-ordered I'm just not planning on playing it right away. I still have a siginificant backlog to get through.
GTA5 PC > House of Wolves > Far Cry 4 > Witcher 3
In that order
Mass Appeal
Member
It is annoying leveling up exotics multiple times but I have over 200 strange coins and the only things i buy from xur now is heavy ammo synth. It's the collector in me that just wants to see another one sitting in the vault.
Forerunner
Member
Snipers can OHK.
Kor of Memory
Member
My point was there are still sight lines. If there are sight lines for snipers, there are sight lines for scout rifles.
Twilight Gap
Member
Some people really aren't seeing the bigger picture.
There are 3 reasons why Shotguns are the most used weapons in Destiny:
1. Blink + Shotgun is stupid easy to pull off with virtually no risk involved.
2. Shotguns are easy to use and can kill from ridiculous ranges.
3. The map design largely favors them with excessive corners and chokepoints.
The last part is also one reason why Autos will always be ahead of the semi-auto weapons. They have more DPS in CQB and they're also easier to fire there.
Removing special ammo off of spawn IS NOT going to fix the situation. Limiting special ammo makes the game worse because it makes Supers more powerful. When Supers are more powerful, players can play more defensively while they wait for them to recharge. Special ammo is a constant counter to supers, and less of them means that balance is tilted. Lowering the Super meter regeneration could solve that problem, but then everyone will just start using Thorn.
More rockets is not the solution for that part either. At all. Nobody should have more than 2 rockets and a machine gun shouldn't have more than 2-3 reloads. If more heavy ammo is going to be added to the game, their spawn time needs to be reduced to once per match. You can't have heavy coming up 3 times and then give people enough to get 15 kills with.
Data is meaningless if you can't comphrehend why things are happening. Most of Bungie's changes to the Crucible show me that they don't really understand their multiplayer.
If they want to limit Shotgun usage, they have to nerf Blink, nerf Shotgun ranges, and redesign all the maps so that there are few optimal places for Shotgun usage. Alternatively, if they rebuff Fusion Rifles, those will replace Shotguns as the flavor of the month. After all, Crucible is all about using the most broken guns to get easy kills and right now it's Felwinter's Lie + Blink.
There are 3 reasons why Shotguns are the most used weapons in Destiny:
1. Blink + Shotgun is stupid easy to pull off with virtually no risk involved.
2. Shotguns are easy to use and can kill from ridiculous ranges.
3. The map design largely favors them with excessive corners and chokepoints.
The last part is also one reason why Autos will always be ahead of the semi-auto weapons. They have more DPS in CQB and they're also easier to fire there.
Removing special ammo off of spawn IS NOT going to fix the situation. Limiting special ammo makes the game worse because it makes Supers more powerful. When Supers are more powerful, players can play more defensively while they wait for them to recharge. Special ammo is a constant counter to supers, and less of them means that balance is tilted. Lowering the Super meter regeneration could solve that problem, but then everyone will just start using Thorn.
More rockets is not the solution for that part either. At all. Nobody should have more than 2 rockets and a machine gun shouldn't have more than 2-3 reloads. If more heavy ammo is going to be added to the game, their spawn time needs to be reduced to once per match. You can't have heavy coming up 3 times and then give people enough to get 15 kills with.
Data is meaningless if you can't comphrehend why things are happening. Most of Bungie's changes to the Crucible show me that they don't really understand their multiplayer.
If they want to limit Shotgun usage, they have to nerf Blink, nerf Shotgun ranges, and redesign all the maps so that there are few optimal places for Shotgun usage. Alternatively, if they rebuff Fusion Rifles, those will replace Shotguns as the flavor of the month. After all, Crucible is all about using the most broken guns to get easy kills and right now it's Felwinter's Lie + Blink.
I took 21 shots of rum, then atheon died
lol. all I'm hearing is that shotguns need their range cut in half in PvP.
Robdraggoo
Member
Pvp newb here. How does blink shotgun work?
Bungie needs to just buff everything instead of nerfing stuff so everything becomes viable lol.
On a serious note, I hope that Bungie wises up for Destiny 2 and creates two attribute tiers for weapons, one for PvE and one for PvP. Balancing the entire game around PvP is killing weapon viability in PvE.
On a serious note, I hope that Bungie wises up for Destiny 2 and creates two attribute tiers for weapons, one for PvE and one for PvP. Balancing the entire game around PvP is killing weapon viability in PvE.
squidhands
Member
Yeah, kind of. Glasshouse isn't as useful as I thought it would be, but the Arachnid helmet seems really useless. Golden Gun zoom, dunno why that should be a thing to want. I'll probably get it anyway since I have the coins to burn, but meh.
Dark Orchid
Member
Hmm, so today I got the best Heavy Machine Gun and Thunderlord.
Xerxes C with Focused Fire.
EJRobinson90
Member
Going to run the daily x3 quickly.
Join in on EJRobinson90 (PSN) if you want.
Not using a mic atm.
Join in on EJRobinson90 (PSN) if you want.
Not using a mic atm.
They already did this for shotguns (stronger against the darkness or whatever). This is a fantastic cop out which they should abuse for separate balancing.
Robdraggoo
Member
scarletham
Member
did you die?
in PvP they really don't. TTK is already quite high for every single weapon class.
I mean... what weapons are not viable in PvE at this point besides auto rifles (I guess. Grumble vanquisher grumble.)?
Shotguns were specifically buffed just for PvE. The pulse buff made them viable all over the place... actually, outside of ARs what nerfing are you even referring to?
I hate to be a downer but while felwinter's lie is at the top of the pile, the functional difference in ridiculousness between it and the vendor secret handshake or found verdict is not that high. If it (FL) is nerfed specifically, some other shotgun will just then be the most ridiculous, while all will remain ridiculous.
Shotguns with high range/range-affecting perks can oneshot outside of shotgun range. That's really all there is to it.
Twilight Gap
Member
it's literally that. you blink towards your opponent and then shotgun them.
Blink covers a lot of distance instantaneously and the range of the shotgun does the rest. if you blink above your opponent and then shotgun them from the air, most of them wont be able to react.
Haha okay.
I miss those maps, they should be back on regular Clash/Control rotation. I'd definitely rather play on them than the small-ass rumble maps Bungie inexplicably decided to add to control/clash. Nothing but clusterfucks.
The Lamonster
Member
yep, ARs are the only problem right now. As soon as Bungie wises up and fixes them, we'll be good.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Agreed.
I don't know if I agree with this. Special weapons definitely are a decent counter to some supers, but I don't think they're a reliable enough counter to make a large impact. The main counter to supers anecdotally seems to be other supers. I'm really curious to know why super kills are going down overall though.
Agreed. I think a nerf to MG ammo is the best solution.
Agreed. I think it would be really interesting to see how a nerf to Blink's cooldown would affect shotguns.
Overall, I really did like those maps for Control (not so much TDM). I wish they would just get rid of some of the wasted space out towards the edges and reintroduce them.
Is he an insider? His post seems suggests that they'll reveal a raid at E3 and that it will be part of HoW (free download?). I can't see why he would be quoting himself otherwise.
MickeyPhree
Member
Anyone want to do crota?
Kor of Memory
Member
So here is a question that Fyrewulff could probably answer.
If bungie wanted to make a spiritual successor to a halo map, could they?
Like, could they make a spiritual successor to Rat's Nest or Standoff? For some reason I feel like Rat's nest would be amazing for Destiny gameplay.
If bungie wanted to make a spiritual successor to a halo map, could they?
Like, could they make a spiritual successor to Rat's Nest or Standoff? For some reason I feel like Rat's nest would be amazing for Destiny gameplay.
I don't see why Blink needs to be nerfed alongside nerfing shotguns to nerf shotguns. Just nerf shotguns. And fusion rifles don't need to be rebuffed, they remain incredibly effective right now despite not being the flavor of the month (and people who run around with primary shotguns are really predictably killable with one by the way).
GuitarAtomik
Member
Yeah, fusion rifles are fine where they are. I'm still getting one shotted by them from ridiculous ranges.
Robdraggoo
Member
While i agree its not the problem. But i use fv all the time snd unless im right next to them its not a ohk. But im probably just bad
ERMint13
Member
I think someone said the problem with blink shotgun is they suffer no accuracy loss coming out of blink. All other guns do. If they gave them the same accuracy loss it wouldn't be as big of a problem.
Does anyone know if the gear they will sell in HoW is level 34 gear at the vendors or will it just be new 32 gear we need the new material to upgrade?
Yours has hammer forged alongside shot package/rangefinder?
edit: Oh you meant found verdict. oops
Found verdict has notably lesser range but you could put out 3 more shots in the time it would take to fire another from felwinter's. I didn't mean they were ridiculous in exactly the same way, just that the total difference in ridiculous is not that large.
edit again: It can definitely ohk from outside of "right next to them," though.... you're using Send It, right?
But exactly, that wouldn't be nerfing Blink, just shotguns. Or rather, correcting an imbalanced advantage, if true.
All vendor gear will be 32.
edit: Er, standard vendor. The PoE vendor gear looks to be buyable at 34-tier.
Fusion-killing fools that come running straight at me is really satisfying. Especially the ones that try to evade my shots by sliding. I always put on a little dance after.
I find it usually depends on the map. Anomaly is shotgun central. I HATE that. I hate that the map determines my loadout and points it to one specific weapon.
Handcannon / Shotgun / Red Death / Vex are the most used things in pvp without a doubt. Yes, Red Death and Vex made it into their own categories.
Handcannon / Shotgun / Red Death / Vex are the most used things in pvp without a doubt. Yes, Red Death and Vex made it into their own categories.
Twilight Gap
Member
I think my train of thought was more indirect.
Special ammo, along with grenades and supers help to counter set ups. With less special, players can't actively break those set ups. You'll wait several minutes for special and then it's gone after the first attempt to break a set up.
This is a catalyst for passive gameplay, which then encourages people to find an alternative route. The top 3 hand cannons have fast kill times and good range, so they fit that description. None of the other archetypes let you aggressively break set ups like the hand cannons do.
Perhaps I see it different because I'm always playing people who abuse every aspect of the game.
PrivateWHudson
Member
I'm not a big multiplayer guy, but I always thought Valhalla was great for keeping that balance. If you were a shotgun guy, you ran around in the bases, and through the outer cave system. The sniper guys favored the mountains and the base balconies. Then the vehicles and heavy weapons played in the center while having their backs exposed to the shotties and snipers.
I just loved that map, and want something like it for Destiny.
veloxStrix
Banned
Pulse Rifles and Scout Rifles both still have their place, regardless of what people do. The majority of people aren't good at PvP. I have no idea why we would just accept the majority as being correct. In my opinion, the Bad Juju is either the best or second best (Last Word) gun in PvP. Fast TTK, forgiving style, and relevevant perks make it one of the most severely underrated guns in the game. High impact Scout Rifles such at the Badger CCL and the Rex are still absurdly good. My Badger CCL with max'd stability and Firefly is a 3-shot godsend, especially on maps where there are sight lines to heavy ammo to make use of the Firefly perk.
The biggest issue isn't that they are worthless, but that none of the guns differentiate from one another. You have good weapons and bad weapons. They are all fairly multi-purpose.
Rockets are there to counter people using Heavy. Rockets beat Heavy Machine guns. In a game where the other team is trash, the machine gun is better. In Iron Banner where you have two teams of six against each other, the rockets are better.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I got an emerald coil from xur.
I cant use it on any purple tier sparrow. I am disappointed.
I cant use it on any purple tier sparrow. I am disappointed.
yes!
hilarious about thorn. I'm not gonna say it doesn't need a nerf, I was one of the only ones I've ever seen saying it didn't need a buff. But you've done this to yourselves, Guardians! It was labeled a shitty exotic, an embarrassment, useless, the #1 gun in need of a major buff etc. for pages and pages. now the darkness has us all.
Ironically it just got buffed with the new effect. Shit's maddening.
Coming! If you have room for a 31 Titan, 30 Hunter!
Twilight Gap
Member
Red Death requires distance to be used effectively. It's almost the foil to the Thorn too because of the health regeneration.
It's a solid weapon, but you wont see it much outside of Control and Clash.
I was the other. It needed a reload buff and that's it. The 6 round mag was the balance for its DoT, which would kill with 2 rounds if you used Aggressive Ballistics.
Now it's top of the food chain.
Sleepy Buddha
Member
No
I have W3 pre-ordered I'm just not planning on playing it right away. I still have a siginificant backlog to get through.
GTA5 PC > House of Wolves > Far Cry 4 > Witcher 3
In that order
With a cripling Destiny addiction like ours and a backlog like that, you'll never get to The Witcher 3.
I've already given up on finishing DA:I before the 19th...
MrChowderClams
Member
Don't you dare talk shit about my precious MIDA. He has feelings too you know!
GuitarAtomik
Member
I see what you're saying. It's a pillar of the "rock, paper, scissors" dynamic and might screw with things if you nerf scissors. I'm just curious if in a scenario where special ammo was even more rare, would people be more likely to use them more sparingly for special situations such as counters to supers, instead of running around like they're a primary just grabbing easy kills.
PrivateWHudson
Member
lol...so true. I can't pick out combatants from the geometry with all of that green flashing. I just run away and cower in the corner until it's over.
MrChowderClams
Member
Are you filled up? Need it for my 31 Titan and 30 Hunter.
I see it fairly often (and use it pretty effectively) in Rumble. I think I see your implied point that it's limited in the 3v3 modes however.
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