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Destiny |OT31| The Courted Oryx (Spoiler Tag ALL Raid Discussion)

N

nOoblet16

Member
Guys, I think I've got the light level down.
Your light level is just your accumulated level made up of all your shit that you have and that stat itself does not affect anything, we know that weapons take priority over other things such as class item, ghost and artefact. Think the math is that weapons contribute 13.5% of the accumulated level while, armour contributes 10.5% and the rest only contribute 8.5%.You can check this thread here for that

Now the theory is that the recommended light level that the game shows is just a recommendation. So if you face a 290 enemy with a 290 attack weapon then it does not matter if your overall light level is 300 or 270 because you will do the exact same damage since the weapon you use to shoot is matching the enemy's light level. I know this for a fact because I played against the same raid boss as a 280 before and as an almost 290 yesterday. Similarly, if you are going against a 300 enemy, having a weapon with attack close to 300 would mean that the damage penalty for your attacks would be insignificant. On the other hand, when it comes to armour. I think the average of the armour pieces are taken to calculate the average Defense value...this defense stat is what determines if you are going to take any damage penalty against an enemy or not.

TL;DR : If you go against a 300 light level enemy like Oryx and your weapon is close to 300 but your defense is somewhere in low 290s or mid 280s then you will still be good for DPS, you'll just take slightly more damage than someone with an average defense close to 300.


This is all just a theory without any hard proof, but I am fairly certain that this is it.

Raybunny said:
Good morning guys. I will be starting my alts quests. Anyone for the story mission?
Click to expand...

If you wait for a few hours (or until tomorrow, that would be better). I'd start with you.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Zoba said:
just saw the new Thunderstrike melee for the first time

GOHI6gl.gif
Click to expand...
your edit game is strong
 
G

GutZ31

Member
Raybunny said:
Just got booted. 3 coins patched?
Click to expand...
Glad I got my saint 14, supercell, telesto, jade rabbit, all Hunter helms, the new Titan helms, hereafter sniper, invective, fourth horseman, Monty Carlo, Suros Regime, TLW, the new Hunter gauntlets, and many more.

I expect people to use another boss in the coming days to farm, only to have Bungie nerf it as well.
 
M

mehrmantrout

Member
Stephen_drewz said:
Any tips for getting beyond 292 pre raid ? Would like to go in next weekend as maxed as I can.
Click to expand...

RNG on getting high level blues I can't get a pair of boots past 285 light despite doing 50+ Heroics or a Helmet past 290 so am also stuck at 291/2 so annoying

Am going to run the story on my Hunter today and hope for better luck


Edit New Suros is my favourite gun so far, so good when it spins up
 
S

Seth Enosh

Member
2 hours and 20 minutes of crucible and the first step of the TLW/chaperone bounty complete. Mostly in 6v6 Classic with a few games in 3v3 Classic. Got put on the former PS maps exodus blue and timekeeper. On timekeeper I just didn't bother with equipping TLW because I never played it, but managed to earn a few % on Exodus Blue.

New TLW is still okay but I'm definitely looking for some allfate/messenger style pulse rifles to try out in preparation for Trials, TLW is really weak at range now.
 
R

Raybunny

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Guys, I think I've got the light level down.
Your light level is just your accumulated level made up of all your shit that you have and that stat itself does not affect anything, we know that weapons take priority over other things such as class item, ghost and artefact. Think the math is that weapons contribute 13.5% of the accumulated level while, armour contributes 10.5% and the rest only contribute 8.5%.You can check this thread here for that

Now the theory is that the recommended light level that the game shows is just a recommendation. So if you face a 290 enemy with a 290 attack weapon then it does not matter if your overall light level is 300 or 270 because you will do the exact same damage since the weapon you use to shoot is matching the enemy's light level. I know this for a fact because I played against the same raid boss as a 280 before and as an almost 290 yesterday. Similarly, if you are going against a 300 enemy, having a weapon with attack close to 300 would mean that the damage penalty for your attacks would be insignificant. On the other hand, when it comes to armour. I think the average of the armour pieces are taken to calculate the average Defense value...this defense stat is what determines if you are going to take any damage penalty against an enemy or not.

TL;DR : If you go against a 300 light level enemy like Oryx and your weapon is close to 300 but your defense is somewhere in low 290s or mid 280s then you will still be good for DPS, you'll just take slightly more damage than someone with an average defense close to 300.


This is all just a theory without any hard proof, but I am fairly certain that this is it.



If you wait for a few hours (or until tomorrow, that would be better). I'd start with you.
Click to expand...



Get that 294+ light ma man. We need the most damage possible.
 
X

xplicitone

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Guys, I think I've got the light level down.
Your light level is just your accumulated level made up of all your shit that you have and that stat itself does not affect anything, we know that weapons take priority over other things such as class item, ghost and artefact. Think the math is that weapons contribute 13.5% of the accumulated level while, armour contributes 10.5% and the rest only contribute 8.5%.You can check this thread here for that

Now the theory is that the recommended light level that the game shows is just a recommendation. So if you face a 290 enemy with a 290 attack weapon then it does not matter if your overall light level is 300 or 270 because you will do the exact same damage since the weapon you use to shoot is matching the enemy's light level. I know this for a fact because I played against the same raid boss as a 280 before and as an almost 290 yesterday. Similarly, if you are going against a 300 enemy, having a weapon with attack close to 300 would mean that the damage penalty for your attacks would be insignificant. On the other hand, when it comes to armour. I think the average of the armour pieces are taken to calculate the average Defense value...this defense stat is what determines if you are going to take any damage penalty against an enemy or not.

TL;DR : If you go against a 300 light level enemy like Oryx and your weapon is close to 300 but your defense is somewhere in low 290s or mid 280s then you will still be good for DPS, you'll just take slightly more damage than someone with an average defense close to 300.


This is all just a theory without any hard proof, but I am fairly certain that this is it.



If you wait for a few hours (or until tomorrow, that would be better). I'd start with you.
Click to expand...

This makes sense. I can't wait until hard evidence but it makes a lot of sense.

Other people before said the same thing. Weapons (and weapon/armor perks) mean way more than average light level.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
DY_nasty said:
Like... what the fuck are you even supposed to do? lol

All the 'quick' supers like voidbomb and fist of havoc can't really be stopped - but those two supers essentially bring the same kind of impact to the game over a period of time. They have to be braindead in order to be outplayed. For all the shit Bladedancers got, you at least had to give them credit for map awareness, planning, and choosing between a perks that give either regen (which they'll need to get in close from one target to the next) or a lengthier super (a gamble).

For as much damage and area control Sunbreakers and Stormcallers exert, they need a fucking weakness lol. I'm even okay with the melee they have. But if I manage to roll, juke, invis, etc my way in through that wall of death then I should be rewarded with a blindspot.

Like one shotting a defender that steps out of his bubble for an instant without Blessing of Light, dodging the one shot I need to in order to kill a Gunslinger, simply outmanuevering and gunning down a Sunsinger... there is almost zero possibility of doing that to a Stormcaller or Sunbreaker without heavy/super and that's just not fun. The ability to outplay needs to exist, otherwise you got some CoD killstreak shit going on.
Click to expand...

Sunbreakers should not get any DR while popping their Super in PvP...period.
Golden gun is a one hit kill ranged super with multi use, just like Hammer (except Hammer gets more use)...but golden gun does not get any DR, so why the fuck should the Titan get it then?
 
S

Seth Enosh

Member
xplicitone said:
This makes sense. I can't wait until hard evidence but it makes a lot of sense.

Other people before said the same thing. Weapons (and weapon/armor perks) mean way more than average light level.
Click to expand...
Unless things work differently in raids then this isn't the case. I just tested in a light 240 story mission and reducing my armor to drop me to light 231 instead of 245 caused my DPS from the same scout rifle to drop significantly.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
Hawkian said:
word up, people CRAZILY do not understand how Rift works. like it is ASTOUNDING.
Click to expand...

Seems like a game where the enemy team just could not make it to the spark spawning place while your team managed to be there almost everytime it spawned.

Seth Enosh said:
Unless things work differently in raids then this isn't the case. I just tested in a light 240 story mission and reducing my armor to drop me to light 231 instead of 245 caused my DPS from the same scout rifle to drop significantly.
Click to expand...
Yet both me and Bitsu went up against raid bosses and neither of us noticed any damage difference while fighting there at different light level.
Try this, reduce it again..but no more than 10 points. Keep the same rifle.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
nOoblet16 said:
Sunbreakers should not get any DR while popping their Super in PvP...period.
Golden gun is a one hit kill ranged super with multi use, just like Hammer (except Hammer gets more use)...but Golden Gun does not get any DR, so why the fuck should the Titan get it then?
Click to expand...
I'm okay with a little DR. The hammer projectile, by itself, isn't gonna instantly take someone out of a triple jump from half a map away. Golden Gun has that advantage over everything so I'll always use that as a reason as to why that should remain the baseline of a glass cannon super in this game.

Being able to roam isn't bad either. Its just that they can pour out so much damage without any drawback. Bladedancers have DR simply because they need to be in melee range. Stormcallers have around the same amount of DR, but they have more range and can hit enemies that they're not even looking, AND they can come out of their super with fully charged grenade and melee. Sunbreakers?

They land what are essentially half power void bombs with more armor (typically) than bladedancers and can do so with an attack range that is greater than most other supers in the game. Also, they have a pretty decent melee on top of that to compliment it.

There's no balance in that. But even outside of balance its just not fun to deal with lol. A lot of things in the game haven't been balanced, but most if not all left the opposing player with a chance to outplay - there's pretty much no window against a Sunbreaker though. To be more specific, I'm okay with SOME DR - but there has to be a tradeoff. They shouldn't be able to get two team wipes with one super in a game of skirmish with ease. That is ridiculous.
 
S

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
Sesuadra said:
so I had to dismantle a few emblems...and I can't get them anymore from the emblem kiosk?

Emblem: Lone Focus, Jagged Edge, Field of Light etc. all gone? because they are not there. every other emblem I can get back after dismantling..

or did I miss something?
Click to expand...

had to quote myself, sorry, someone got an answer ^^"?
 
R

Ramirez

Member
Hawkian said:
word up, people CRAZILY do not understand how Rift works. like it is ASTOUNDING.
Click to expand...

Hmm, think it's just more of it being almost impossible to push a team back from the Spark spawn once a team gets control of the area and starts chaining supers. Spark shoulda had two spawn locations, or something.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
DY_nasty said:
I'm okay with a little DR. The hammer projectile, by itself, isn't gonna instantly take someone out of a triple jump from half a map away. Golden Gun has that advantage over everything so I'll always use that as a reason as to why that should remain the baseline of a glass cannon super in this game.

Being able to roam isn't bad either. Its just that they can pour out so much damage without any drawback. Bladedancers have DR simply because they need to be in melee range. Stormcallers have around the same amount of DR, but they have more range and can hit enemies that they're not even looking, AND they can come out of their super with fully charged grenade and melee. Sunbreakers?

They land what are essentially half power void bombs with more armor (typically) than bladedancers and can do so with an attack range that is greater than most other supers in the game. Also, they have a pretty decent melee on top of that to compliment it.

There's no balance in that. But even outside of balance its just not fun to deal with lol. A lot of things in the game haven't been balanced, but most if not all left the opposing player with a chance to outplay - there's pretty much no window against a Sunbreaker though. To be more specific, I'm okay with SOME DR - but there has to be a tradeoff. They shouldn't be able to get two team wipes with one super in a game of skirmish with ease. That is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Stormcallers have movement penalty so it's alright if they have DR. It's easy to headshot them still. Bladedancers like you said absolutely need the buff due to close range. I don't understand why Sunbreakers should get an even higher DR than that, it effectively means that you cannot kill the dude with normal weapons at all because he'll kill you unless he is already low on health.
 
S

Seth Enosh

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Yet both me and Bitsu went up against raid bosses and neither of us noticed any damage difference while fighting there at different light level.
Try this, reduce it again..but no more than 10 points. Keep the same rifle.
Click to expand...

FWIW here's my original test: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...147&authkey=!AMTi1aBWcVNFenY&ithint=video,mp4

Went from 246 light to 234 light. precision damage against a red-bar acolyte changed from 811 to 678. The same 144 Attack scout rifle was used for both shots and at a similar range.

Going to sleep now but will test more tomorrow if anyone doesn't beat me to it. I actually have the (raid boss spoiler name)
Golgoroth
checkpoint so i might even try testing there.

Edit: bungie's patch notes for 2.0 did say "Weapon Damage is heavily weighted by both your Light score and the Attack value of the weapon" which to me sounds like the old system remained in place - your defense being low can cause your weapon damage to not work at full effectiveness.
 
X

xplicitone

Member
Seth Enosh said:
Unless things work differently in raids then this isn't the case. I just tested in a light 240 story mission and reducing my armor to drop me to light 231 instead of 245 caused my DPS from the same scout rifle to drop significantly.
Click to expand...

nOoblet16 said:
Seems like a game where the enemy team just could not make it to the spark spawning place while your team managed to be there almost everytime it spawned.


Yet both me and Bitsu went up against raid bosses and neither of us noticed any damage difference while fighting there at different light level.
Try this, reduce it again..but no more than 10 points. Keep the same rifle.
Click to expand...

Interesting. There has to be a magic number (<= 10 in your suggestion) or percentage. Either way, the fact that so far the raid it seems insignificant yet the story it's significant, is quite baffling.

I noticed when I jumped up light yesterday I was doing more damage in weekly strikes with the same AR. I do need more tests.

Maybe the raid, you're testing 2X light below vs X light below and regardless both are below so it didn't matter?
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Ramirez said:
Hmm, think it's just more of it being almost impossible to push a team back from the Spark spawn once a team gets control of the area and starts chaining supers. Spark shoulda had two spawn locations, or something.
Click to expand...

no idea how you can comment on a match you weren't in o.o i'm talking about the behavior of both teams and specifically the other runners on my own.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
xplicitone said:
Interesting. There has to be a magic number (<= 10 in your suggestion) or percentage. Either way, the fact that so far the raid it seems I significant yet the story it's significant, is quite baffling.

I noticed when I jumped up light yesterday I was doing more damage in weekly strikes with the same AR. I do need more tests.
Click to expand...

I'll do some test to check this later.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
nOoblet16 said:
Stormcallers have movement penalty so it's alright if they have DR. It's easy to headshot them still. Bladedancers like you said absolutely need the buff due to close range. I don't understand why Sunbreakers should get an even higher DR than that, it effectively means that you cannot kill the dude with normal weapons at all because he'll kill you unless he is already low on health.
Click to expand...
To add - Bladedancers in Year 1 at first used to spec armor for a while. They could took an absolutely ridiculous amount of damage. Once the community as a whole learned to prioritize and teamshoot the glowing bastard with the knives out coming to kill us all, the armor thing didn't really make sense anymore. Speed and travel time won out. Bladedancers needed to get in the shit and let the regen provide what armor no longer could.

Sunbreakers though? Titans already have the highest base armor in the game lol. You throw significant DR on top of that and you may as well be fighting a fallen walker.

Its just weird. They get a melee in super, 1hk off splash, one of the longest supers in the game, AND hefty DR on top of that?

come on

I like the class. I really do but cmon. I had more fun dodging Pave Lows in MW2.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Ramirez said:
Hmm, think it's just more of it being almost impossible to push a team back from the Spark spawn once a team gets control of the area and starts chaining supers. Spark shoulda had two spawn locations, or something.
Click to expand...

Rift needs that too imo.

Map control acts differently in this mode compared to everything else because the spawns don't really act the same as they do in other modes. If you have really solid map control along with some guys that know how to lock down key areas (high heavy on pantheon for example), you can really choke out a game. Spark charges pretty fast too... if it moved to other spots, similar to salvage, and with more time in between I think it would be a better experience overall.

Its still new, but I think that once people understand that map control + super timing, it'll be general free win for guys who typically wouldn't be able to carry a game normally.
 
J

Jblanks

Member
Hawkian said:
word up, people CRAZILY do not understand how Rift works. like it is ASTOUNDING.
Click to expand...

Yes its so frustrating playing it by yourself. I needed to get 2 wins on it, and went 1-6 in 7 games played... I had teammates running to get heavy ammo instead of taking out the Spark carrier..

I mean Rift kind of sucks in general.
 
X

xVaalbarAx

Member
Goddamn randoms.
We had Oryx down to the last slim of Health (3 FUCKING TIMES) and couldn't do it. And they all raged quit the game because of it. FUCK.
 
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