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Destiny |OT31| The Courted Oryx (Spoiler Tag ALL Raid Discussion)

A

Afrocious

Member
Hzoltan69 said:
Woo, I'm online again! Does any body want to team up for anything? Daily, NF, CoO, Raid, whatever...
Click to expand...

Looks like TWC messed up with you too.

ocean said:
I'll be home in an hour and need to pop a T3 for the Calcified Fragment. I also need to do 4 distinct T2s if you wanna hang around while I pop it and quit until I get the ones I need :p engrams for all!
Click to expand...

I have 7 tier 1s. I can help out if I'm not raiding after work.

I need to get more T2s. I need one fragment from them.
 
S

Shito

Member
LTWood12 said:
Yep! Got the artifact plus some other better gear. I've got a Stolen rune but no antiquated. But in just playing last night I got two antiquated runes and used them. We should be able to get it done pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Never got a stolen rune pop from my tier 1 completions, but fyi Eris just gave me a stolen rune and an antiquated one for reaching rank 5 with her.
 
H

haunted_taco

Member
can anybody explain to me or link me to an article explaining how loot works in kings fall?

I heard there is now a point to completing it multiple times a week on the same character but I'm not exactly sure what it is.
 
O

ocean

Banned
iRAWRasaurus said:
wait you did what I did and skip to the end ;)


Hope my hint helped :)


In a sense I agree it's you. Being forced under level and getting the correct amount of dps can be frustrating. There should be more room to wiggle around and recover if something happens. Still I think Kings fall is fun so far. I can def see how it can be a nightmare for people tho...
Click to expand...
We're not forced under level, we just haven't reached the level yet. Big difference. This isn't like Skolas where we have a 33% damage penalty no matter how good our gear is. Reaching 300 was possible (but unlikely) last week, but 300+ players will gradually become the norm over the next 2-3 weeks and the DOS checks will become significantly more forgiving.
 
L

LTWood12

Member
Shito said:
Never got a stolen rune pop from my tier 1 completions, but fyi Eris just gave me a stolen rune and an antiquated one for reaching rank 5 with her.
Click to expand...

Yeah I got both of mine to drop from doing tier 2s. That tier 3 loot is pretty awesome in my limited experience. Got some 296 boots and some 280s artifacts, T-44 got a 290-something ghost.
 
GlamFM

GlamFM

Banned
Darryl M R said:
So everyone agree Nightfall loot is crap? So everyone depending on Xur now--might be doing more coin farming until they patch.
Click to expand...

I really feel like people are not appreciating CoO enough.

It´s basically LootCave 2.0 only with better and more drops.
I´ve gotten two exotic out of purples already.

Time is better spent in the Court IMO.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Epyon MX said:
Managed to get to the 3rd boss last night with some fellow DGAFers. Not sure how I'm really feeling about the bosses. We self-wiped way more often than we failed outright. "Yeah, that's a wipe." x 30. In that regard, King's Fall isn't a successor to the Vault of Glass. This is the successor to Crota's End, specifically the
Crota fight. Crota on Hard, if you missed a sword smash, "that's a wipe." If the sword disappeared, "that's a wipe." If someone died, "that's a wipe." If someone fell off the ledge, "that's a wipe." There is 0 ability to recover. Self-wiping utterly kils the fun, but if you're trying to win, often it's the smartest strategy if something goes wrong near the beginning/ middle of the fight.

King's Fall bosses feel like that, each one more so.
Warpriest's worthiness trial is great. Just like the Sword Bridge in CE. The Warpriest does allow for recovering, but more than Golgoroth. If you have a rage taker fail, and it's not on the last phase, then you're pretty much screwed. And by far the worst is the Sisters. Someone falls off a platform, then "that's a wipe." You get killed by a ???, which happened 3x to us last night, then you're down on person, and the DPS hit is so much that you're going to be struggling not just short term, but for the rest of the fight to make up for it. Unless you're on phase 3 or 4, "that's a wipe." Have the witch turn around and thus make it impossible to crit her reliably? "That's a wipe." Most frustratingly, if you fail, then you just burned through all your special & heavy, so your next bout is going to be off. Just like Crota, waiting around for people to be able to synth up isn't fun.

A good point someone made about the need for utterly flawless execution for these boss fights is that it's a function of being undergeared. Every fire team member's DPS is crucial, so if someone isn't alive or isn't using optimal gear, it really hurts the team. The problem with this approach is that difficulty radically changes as you pass the DPS gate so much so that you often don't have to engage in the actual mechanics of the fight. Crota as a 32 was incredibly difficult and about 10 minutes. You need 6 downs and each one needed 3 smashes. You had to deal with Ogres and Gatekeepers. Crota as a 40 apparently only requires 2 downs. You don't even have to run inside anymore. Compare that to Gatekeepers or Oracles. Regardless of your level, you have to do the fight.

I'm not arguing that boss fights should be future-proof, but it highlights the different archetypes of boss-fights. Hands down, my current favorite boss fights are Gatekeepers and Skolas. Defined roles for all players, no DPS windows that have to be perfect to succeed, mechanics must be followed regardless of DPS, ability to recover and multiple methods to complete.

That's my initial impressions from my first week, of the first 3 bosses. Definitely subject to revision.
Click to expand...

Perfect post. This explicitly articulates my problem with this Raid and it's what I attempted to say when I compared it to the Vault of Glass. My criticism to that end was mostly a personal issue, but the underlying cause is what you highlighted in this post. Crota and the encounters in King's Fall are flawless DPS gates when you're underleveled and easy as hell when you pass the threshold, such so that the mechanics become irrelevant. The Vault of Glass on the other hand still requires you to engage with the mechanics regardless of your level and in some cases lets you tackle them differently.

The philosophies are fundamentally different and it's why I feel that - while King's Fall is a fun Raid with challenging mechanics - is ultimately inferior to the Vault of Glass in encounter design.
 
D

Darryl M R

Member
GlamFM said:
I really feel like people are not appreciating CoO enough.

It´s basically LootCave 2.0 only with better and more drops.
I´ve gotten two exotic out of purples already.

Time is better spent in the Court IMO.
Click to expand...

I have yet to do Court, is there a quest to explain and expose me to the Court?
 
K

Klyka

Banned
I still can't believe I managed to get an Oryx kill week 1.
All the cool people from GAF who were with me over this weekend, I salute you!
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
So I need Calcified Fragment XXXIX
Every video shows that this has to do with specific Tier 2 boss combination: Lokaar and vorlog
I popped a rune and got that boss combo last night and beat it.
But I still didn't get the Fragment... Is the Fragment still RNG even if you get that specific boss duo?
 
E

E92 M3

Member
I the difference between 310 and 300 will not be a big deal for a heroic raid...unless they make it 320. I think Bungie is leaning towards mechanics more than just proper damage output. Of course DPS is still important but it's taking a backseat to mechanics and execution.
 
S

saveweyard

Banned
Looking to get a raid group together around 7pm EDT. This won't be a blind raid, but newbies are welcome if they don't mind getting spoiled on mechanics. If anyone from the group I cleared the raid with wants to join that would be awesome. If we can get some vets in here we should be able to clear it in about 2 hours.

1. Saveweyard
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
 
O

ocean

Banned
Klyka said:
That moment when you
are the Oryx relic runner for 4 hours straight and your hands hurt, your arms hurt, your eyes hurt from the constant black and white bullshit and you are falling half asleep cause it's 4am and every single jump you take has to be perfect over and over again and you need to get the relic to the knight without dying to a wrong double jump or getting stuck on adds and then you pull out your golden gun and you can't miss that shot or else DPS might not be enough.
Jesus Christ man.
Click to expand...
It's beautiful <3

I was there for 12 hours at launch. By the time we decided to take a rest, I had been up for 24 hours (half of that in the Raid) and wiped a half trillion times. But I loved the group I was with and it will probably be my favorite Destiny experience ever.

I did the Raid again yesterday for the second time and in each encounter played a different role than I did on my original run. This caused a few wipes which we all knew were 100% on me. But they taught me and will very likely not happen the next time I have such a role.

Specially considering we'll keep leveling up and learning positions and precise spawn timers etc.

I'm in love with the difficulty tuning of King's Fall. They managed to make it extremely hard but still doable for us at the highest possible level we could have reached by the time it launched. Had they made it easier it would have overwhelmed. Had they made it impossible sub-300, it would have been a rage fest from the FUCK BUNGIE crowd.

Instead they gave the hardest of the hardcore what they wanted: something to bang their heads against with the promise that perfect teamwork would be worth it and mean success (unlike Crota where level 30 Sword bearer = literally impossible fight).

And for those who didn't grind their eyeballs out on week 1, the raid will stand as an interesting, challenging encounter with a lot more margin for error as time goes by and people enter the thing at 295+ With guides instead of 285+ blind as many did on day 1.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
saveweyard said:
Looking to get a raid group together around 7pm EDT. This won't be a blind raid, but newbies are welcome if they don't mind getting spoiled on mechanics. If anyone from the group I cleared the raid with wants to join that would be awesome. If we can get some vets in here we should be able to clear it in about 2 hours.

1. Saveweyard
2. Viewtifuljc
3.
4.
5.
6.
Click to expand...

mind if I join? Haven't beat it yet, but I'm a 293 Hunter and can take instructions very well!
 
E

EroticSushi

Member
Darryl M R said:
I have yet to do Court, is there a quest to explain and expose me to the Court?
Click to expand...
Its basically public events split into 3 difficulty levels. You use a rune ranging from tier 1-3. Tier 1 being the easiest, tier 2 being a little harder and tier 3 being the hardest. One person pops a rune, the entire fireteam (randoms in the area can also hop in if they feel like it) enter the little arena and take out the boss before time is up. Each boss has their own mechanic.

There's a Eris quest that requires you do 6 tier 1 + 3 tier 2 (I think) and 1 tier 3. You get a 300 artifact for it.
 
A

Ambitious

Member
And here's another shitty Crucible quest. How about requiring me to kill X players with Auto Rifles, X players with Pulse Rifles, X players with Scout Rifles and X players with Hand Cannons? But no, I have to win three games with at least six AR kills. And then three games with at least six PR kills. And then three games with at least six SR kills. And then three games with at least six HC kills. Jesus Christ.
 
E

EJRobinson90

Member
Argh the farming special mats and void ability kills is killing me. Also, a shame that I can't pick up certain fragments because I picked them up before I got the first Eris bounty. About 6-7 of those fragments are lost as the game doesn't recognize them.
 
S

stb

Member
ocean said:
I kind of wish the DPS windows stayed close to being this strict. Crota's End was waaaaaaay too forgiving. To the point where 4 people could literally sit down. One person rockets Crota twice, one guy swords, and they can finish the fight themselves.
Click to expand...

I initially bristled at this because the DPS phases seem SO short sometimes (RAID SPOILER:
i.e. we got about 1/4 through Sisters last night, and just figured out the mechanics, but have to execute
) ...

ocean said:
Sadly I know KF will be easy and on farm very, very soon. Either this week or the next runs will start skipping entire DPS waves and steamrolling through encounters without wiping or having to make a big effort at playing their very best. And when this happens, the activity loses like half its appeal for me.
Click to expand...

... but this is very true.

At the end of the day, essentially everyone playing is undergeared. We'll be 6 players at 300+ with optimized pieces (or at least not have to sacrifice light to pick a 286 sniper over a 300 shotty). The DPS window won't get any longer, but we'll be doing more damage in that period and be less vulnerable. Plus, we're going to get better at it.

It's can be frustrating today, but it's good for the longer term that it's challenging now.

That said, I'll have to see what they to do hard mode. I simply skipped HM CE until HOW leveled the playing field, level-wise, because it was a chore fighting uphill the whole time. I really hope they don't do that in HM KF.
 
I

iRAWRasaurus

Banned
ocean said:
We're not forced under level, we just haven't reached the level yet. Big difference. This isn't like Skolas where we have a 33% damage penalty no matter how good our gear is. Reaching 300 was possible (but unlikely) last week, but 300+ players will gradually become the norm over the next 2-3 weeks and the DOS checks will become significantly more forgiving.
Click to expand...

Thus begins the LFG light level 300+ :p Well I can most likely save my complainants when Hard Mode is release. Just looking back at every thing besides VoG which did have a similar thing to being forced under level aka #forever29. Frankly I still think the timing is too strict especially for everyday folks. Why make a great experiences when only 0.1% are able to finish according to PS4 trophies as of now. Just my personal opinion :)
 
S

Shito

Member
Ambitious said:
What do the other classes get?
Click to expand...
Hunters get a really nice high impact sniper rifle at rank 2, and an exotic hand cannon with firefly and maverick (precision kills move one round from your ammo reserves I to the magazine) at rank 3.
Both are reaaaally good.
 
S

silver.tongue

Member
Ambitious said:
And here's another shitty Crucible quest. How about requiring me to kill X players with Auto Rifles, X players with Pulse Rifles, X players with Scout Rifles and X players with Hand Cannons? But no, I have to win three games with at least six AR kills. And then three games with at least six PR kills. And then three games with at least six SR kills. And then three games with at least six HC kills. Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

Holy shit. I do NOT look foward to that. What quest line is that?
 
E

E92 M3

Member
iRAWRasaurus said:
Thus begins the LFG light level 300+ :p Well I can most likely save my complainants when Hard Mode is release. Just looking back at every thing besides VoG which did have a similar thing to being forced under level aka #forever29. Frankly I still think the timing is too strict especially for everyday folks. Why make a great experiences when only 0.1% are able to finish according to PS4 trophies as of now. Just my personal opinion :)
Click to expand...

It'll increase as time goes on. Defeating the raid for the first time is the most satisfying thing in gaming and it wouldn't be like that if it was easy.
 
O

ocean

Banned
Zoba said:
Perfect post. This explicitly articulates my problem with this Raid and it's what I attempted to say when I compared it to the Vault of Glass. My criticism to that end was mostly a personal issue, but the underlying cause is what you highlighted in this post. Crota and the encounters in King's Fall are flawless DPS gates when you're underleveled and easy as hell when you pass the threshold, such so that the mechanics become irrelevant. The Vault of Glass on the other hand still requires you to engage with the mechanics regardless of your level and in some cases lets you tackle them differently.

The philosophies are fundamentally different and it's why I feel that - while King's Fall is a fun Raid with challenging mechanics - is ultimately inferior to the Vault of Glass in encounter design.
Click to expand...
I don't really see how they're that different. VoG once you're leveled enough = 1 man gatekeepers, relic holder can kill all the Oracles himself, you can kill Atheon in one portal without even using the damn Relic bubble.

Templar = take down shields and do damage, rinse repeat until he dies, step into bubble once in a while to prevent a wipe (sounds familiar :p)

Conflux is time consuming as hell because team skill can't influence completion time at all, sadly. I see this as a failure and not a success, it just drags on unnecessarily.

I love VoG and think it's amazing and brilliant but fail to understand how it's more mechanically compelling when you can ignore rules and strats as easily as in the rest of the raids by just being powerful enough (Skolas burn before final mines, cap in peace with no ads in room; Crota kill so fast you never see ogres, ignore knights so you never see wizards, never die so you never see Oversoul, position where nothing can shoot you so you don't even need chalice).

I don't think any of the current boss encounters in the game are designed in such a way as to remain mechanically strict once you're strong enough to rush past the DPS gates. They're all equal in this regard, and that's probably not by accident - it's normal to let content be diluted with time so it's made more democratic and accessible by casual players.
 
Sky Walker

Sky Walker

Member
saveweyard said:
Looking to get a raid group together around 7pm EDT. This won't be a blind raid, but newbies are welcome if they don't mind getting spoiled on mechanics. If anyone from the group I cleared the raid with wants to join that would be awesome. If we can get some vets in here we should be able to clear it in about 2 hours.

1. Saveweyard
2. Viewtifuljc3.
4. Skywalker_3li
5.
6.
Click to expand...

I have done some of the raid so I know bits and pieces from its mechanics.

Edit : top of the page ?

I'll be doing nightfall if someone wants to join.
 
D

deadduck

Member
ocean said:
I'll be home in an hour and need to pop a T3 for the Calcified Fragment. I also need to do 4 distinct T2s if you wanna hang around while I pop it and quit until I get the ones I need :p engrams for all!
Click to expand...

I think we are hunting the same prey... Wanna team up?
 
S

stb

Member
Zoba said:
Perfect post. This explicitly articulates my problem with this Raid and it's what I attempted to say when I compared it to the Vault of Glass. My criticism to that end was mostly a personal issue, but the underlying cause is what you highlighted in this post. Crota and the encounters in King's Fall are flawless DPS gates when you're underleveled and easy as hell when you pass the threshold, such so that the mechanics become irrelevant. The Vault of Glass on the other hand still requires you to engage with the mechanics regardless of your level and in some cases lets you tackle them differently.

The philosophies are fundamentally different and it's why I feel that - while King's Fall is a fun Raid with challenging mechanics - is ultimately inferior to the Vault of Glass in encounter design.
Click to expand...

I think we need to give KF some time.

People are doing some encouters that seemed impossible at first blush early now (RAID SPOILER:
Warpriest with a totem to spare
). After we figured out the second boss, I'm certain that's going to be a joke, going forward. My group is on the 3rd boss now, and that seems like a flawless DPS gate RIGHT this second, but we're all undergeared. That's going to require some tight play at 300+ with good and varied gear, but nowhere near as flawless as it feels like we have to do it today. I can't comment on the endboss as we haven't gotten there yet.

I don't think anything will ever replace VoG; it was too impressive, interesting, and fun. There's nothing like your first.

BUT let's see how we feel about KF in a month or two. It's clearly the 2nd best "raid level" activity we have. I don't expect that ranking to change until at least the next expansion, but I think people will warm up to it even more as we get better gear and have more experience with it.
 
S

Subtervotion

Member
GlamFM said:
I really feel like people are not appreciating CoO enough.

It´s basically LootCave 2.0 only with better and more drops.
I´ve gotten two exotic out of purples already.

Time is better spent in the Court IMO.
Click to expand...

This.

If you need to level up your light. Do Court for a bit and get a ton of engrams. Then go decrypt. Boom, good chance you leveled up.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
omfg what is wrong with this game


2 pulse rifles and another gauntlets on the same character that got a pulse rifle and gauntlets last week and another pair of gauntlets this week.


smart loot is a friking joke
 
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