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Destiny |OT31| The Courted Oryx (Spoiler Tag ALL Raid Discussion)

S

Sentinalprimus

Member
DeathJr said:
omfg what is wrong with this game


2 pulse rifles and another gauntlets on the same character that got a pulse rifle and gauntlets last week and another pair of gauntlets this week.


smart loot is a friking joke
Click to expand...

Got the same shotgun gloves and no primaries from Oryx :/ Super smart loot.
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
Zoba said:
so since this raid doesn't drop anything worth while until the end, how long until people start giving out oryx checkpoints?
Click to expand...

You don't like
300-310 armor, class items, ghosts, and secondary and heavy weapons
?

Eventually everyone will be 310 light, and I give it 1-2 months until everyone only wants to do Oryx.
 
E

E92 M3

Member
stb said:
I think we need to give KF some time.

People are doing some encouters that seemed impossible at first blush early now (RAID SPOILER:
Warpriest with a totem to spare
). After we figured out the second boss, I'm certain that's going to be a joke, going forward. My group is on the 3rd boss now, and that seems like a flawless DPS gate RIGHT this second, but we're all undergeared. That's going to require some tight play at 300+ with good and varied gear, but nowhere near as flawless as it feels like we have to do it today. I can't comment on the endboss as we haven't gotten there yet.

I don't think anything will ever replace VoG; it was too impressive, interesting, and fun. There's nothing like your first.

BUT let's see how we feel about KF in a month or two. It's clearly the 2nd best "raid level" activity we have. I don't expect that ranking to change until at least the next expansion, but I think people will warm up to it even more as we get better gear and have more experience with it.
Click to expand...

KF feels more epic than VOG in my opinion. They are both wonderful and unique. One little touch I love in KF is that the bosses
don't disappear.
 
A

Ambitious

Member
Shito said:
Hunters get a really nice high impact sniper rifle at rank 2, and an exotic hand cannon with firefly and maverick (precision kills move one round from your ammo reserves I to the magazine) at rank 3.
Both are reaaaally good.
Click to expand...

Wait, Hunter get an extra exotic?

silver.tongue said:
Holy shit. I do NOT look foward to that. What quest line is that?
Click to expand...

The quest is called Weapon Master, but I can't remember how I obtained it.
 
O

ocean

Banned
Zoba said:
so since this raid doesn't drop anything worth while until the end, how long until people start giving out oryx checkpoints?
Click to expand...
I dunno man, 300+ ghosts/armor seems worthwhile to me :p

What I *am* a bit surprised about is people aren't checkpoint sharing the first loot-awarding checkpoint to skip the initial puzzles.

Which is nice because the puzzles are cool :) but a little surprising given the efficiently minded crowd we tend to be
 
R

Robdraggoo

Member
SO stoked I got the Booleon this morning. thank god the bounties were easy. tomorrow is going to be a good arms day as well. I should have rank 3 for gunsmith to get the exotic autorifle, what light will it drop at?

still stuck at 293 light. the climb from 285-29+ is a real grind. cant seem to get good gear to drop for me.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
DeathJr said:
omfg what is wrong with this game


2 pulse rifles and another gauntlets on the same character that got a pulse rifle and gauntlets last week and another pair of gauntlets this week.


smart loot is a friking joke
Click to expand...

It's a bit weird, though, because it's not REALLY the same loot. For example, my boots are only 303 - I would love 310 boots. And the perks on some of my raid gear aren't the best, so I would like better. It'd be a bit annoying if the game just prioritized giving us one of each piece. I know those feels though. If I get another scout rifle, and not something new, it'd be a bit of a letdown.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
iRAWRasaurus said:
Hope my hint helped :)
Click to expand...
Your hint was perfect, we still figured the whole thing out on our own essentially but it was great that we had that in mind for the first time it happened.

Ultimately, even though we had just a handful of attempts none of which were perfect, it's pretty obvious to me that that fight is perfectly doable with 5 people or undergeared and people can make mistakes. I also don't understand how the mechanics could be bypassed by a higher-leveled group. The encounter just before it that you helped us with is also a really solid cooperative challenge that is extremely resistant to cheese. So I assume all of the "no wiggle room now/destined to be easy as hell later" comments are directed at the second half/however much is left of the raid. Which is a shame but the first half was worth the price of admission at least.
ocean said:
I'll be home in an hour and need to pop a T3 for the Calcified Fragment. I also need to do 4 distinct T2s if you wanna hang around while I pop it and quit until I get the ones I need :p engrams for all!
Click to expand...
I'll be home in...... 8 hours.
Darryl M R said:
So everyone agree Nightfall loot is crap? So everyone depending on Xur now--might be doing more coin farming until they patch.
Click to expand...
Nightfall loot ls all over the place but you can get high level legendaries from it...

In my opinion, those should be super, super heavily weighted in the pool because they're so universally useful now. Exotics should remain at their current drop rates in the table, while Strange Coins and 3oC... seriously?! Should be removed from the table altogether.

BTW even if they don't patch 3oC in some way by the next time, you're still sort of playing a losing game with endlessly farming exotic engrams. Not all of the items are in the pool, if you're looking for something in particular the odds are stacked waaaay against you (nothing is remotely stopping you from getting the same type of engram 10 times in a row), exotic boots don't seem to drop at all, and more subjectively you lose out on the rush of getting something you do want from using 3oC legitimately.

Last night I spawned a Cabal Colossus boss on the Dreadnaught on the way to the Court with Wallach. Popped a 3oC and he explodes into a gauntlet engram. When I got back to the tower it turned into my new Don't Touch Mes. Of course this is totally personal but that's a lot more satisfying to me than killing the same boss and myself for an hour and a half and having them be one of 10 drops amongst several repeats in that timeframe alone.
Darryl M R said:
I have yet to do Court, is there a quest to explain and expose me to the Court?
Click to expand...
Eris has a quest to basically get your feet wet by doing 6 tier 1s, 3 tier 2s and 1 tier 3. It rewards a legendary 300 artifact which I neeeeeed.
 
M

MrDaravon

Member
Epyon MX said:
Managed to get to the 3rd boss last night with some fellow DGAFers. Not sure how I'm really feeling about the bosses. We self-wiped way more often than we failed outright. "Yeah, that's a wipe." x 30. In that regard, King's Fall isn't a successor to the Vault of Glass. This is the successor to Crota's End, specifically the
Crota fight. Crota on Hard, if you missed a sword smash, "that's a wipe." If the sword disappeared, "that's a wipe." If someone died, "that's a wipe." If someone fell off the ledge, "that's a wipe." There is 0 ability to recover. Self-wiping utterly kils the fun, but if you're trying to win, often it's the smartest strategy if something goes wrong near the beginning/ middle of the fight.

King's Fall bosses feel like that, each one more so.
Warpriest's worthiness trial is great. Just like the Sword Bridge in CE. The Warpriest does allow for recovering, but more than Golgoroth. If you have a rage taker fail, and it's not on the last phase, then you're pretty much screwed. And by far the worst is the Sisters. Someone falls off a platform, then "that's a wipe." You get killed by a ???, which happened 3x to us last night, then you're down on person, and the DPS hit is so much that you're going to be struggling not just short term, but for the rest of the fight to make up for it. Unless you're on phase 3 or 4, "that's a wipe." Have the witch turn around and thus make it impossible to crit her reliably? "That's a wipe." Most frustratingly, if you fail, then you just burned through all your special & heavy, so your next bout is going to be off. Just like Crota, waiting around for people to be able to synth up isn't fun.

A good point someone made about the need for utterly flawless execution for these boss fights is that it's a function of being undergeared. Every fire team member's DPS is crucial, so if someone isn't alive or isn't using optimal gear, it really hurts the team. The problem with this approach is that difficulty radically changes as you pass the DPS gate so much so that you often don't have to engage in the actual mechanics of the fight. Crota as a 32 was incredibly difficult and about 10 minutes. You need 6 downs and each one needed 3 smashes. You had to deal with Ogres and Gatekeepers. Crota as a 40 apparently only requires 2 downs. You don't even have to run inside anymore. Compare that to Gatekeepers or Oracles. Regardless of your level, you have to do the fight.

I'm not arguing that boss fights should be future-proof, but it highlights the different archetypes of boss-fights. Hands down, my current favorite boss fights are Gatekeepers and Skolas. Defined roles for all players, no DPS windows that have to be perfect to succeed, mechanics must be followed regardless of DPS, ability to recover and multiple methods to complete.

That's my initial impressions from my first week, of the first 3 bosses. Definitely subject to revision.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I posted some thoughts on this last night, but I never once felt satisfaction from defeating a boss, just relief that we didn't have to do it again. The whole raid (short of the last boss which I haven't done yet) just feels like a tedious grind. I'll do one more to get a complete clear and then I don't see myself doing it again unless something dramatic changes with the meta.
 
R

rNilla

Member
E92 M3 said:
KF feels more epic than VOG in my opinion. They are both wonderful and unique. One little touch I love in KF is that the bosses
don't disappear.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is cool. Also
tomb ship platform section is awesome. Literally awesome--I was in awe!
 
J

JohnOfMars

Banned
Thanks all for your replies. Good stuff. I'm very glad to have another raid. And I'm lookign forward to getting back in and seeing how our opinions mature as we play more.

Klyka said:
I just rewatched our video of killing
Oryx
and I was quite surprised how many deaths we had during our kill. Sure we were always lucky it was during times where we could compensate but still.
Click to expand...

Very encouraging. Thanks for sharing.

ocean said:
I kind of wish the DPS windows stayed close to being this strict. Crota's End was waaaaaaay too forgiving. To the point where 4 people could literally sit down. One person rockets Crota twice, one guy swords, and they can finish the fight themselves.
Click to expand...

That's because the only person DPSing is the swordbearer, which is very different.

ocean said:
The beauty of this type of encounter is that when it goes well, it's magical. All six people working like a well-oiled machine. Everyone doing their roles perfectly, communicating timing, changing positions and supporting or damaging at the precise moment it's needed. It's lovely.
Click to expand...

This type of magic only comes at the end of an attempt, and it is indeed a great feeling. But having someone go down in a bad way, and everyone shouting to revive him or take the relic over is exhilaration that happens during an attempt. So without recoveries, an encounter is X hours of beating your head against a boss, for that high once. Executing an amazing recovery and keeping the fight going can happen periodically while you bang your head against a boss. Skolas was a 20-30 minute fight, with all kinds of highs as you go through it and focus on revives and passing debuffs.

The ability to recover doesn't make a fight easier, it adds a new challenge and new mechanic to fights. You have to on the fly adjust. It's my favorite part of the game.

iRAWRasaurus said:
In a sense I agree it's you. Being forced under level and getting the correct amount of dps can be frustrating. There should be more room to wiggle around and recover if something happens. Still I think Kings fall is fun so far. I can def see how it can be a nightmare for people tho...
Click to expand...

It's still fun, but self-wiping and waiting for synths isn't a lot of fun. And needing everyone to be 100% at all times for an hour of attempts is a lot to ask for. But I think a lot of why recovery screws up a run is we don't know the encounters well. As we gear up and learn the encounters, my hope is that we'll be able to recover better.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
MrDaravon said:
I never once felt satisfaction from defeating a boss, just relief that we didn't have to do it again. The whole raid (short of the last boss which I haven't done yet) just feels like a tedious grind. I'll do one more to get a complete clear and then I don't see myself doing it again unless something dramatic changes with the meta.
Click to expand...
Welp, I certainly can't follow you out onto that limb. I specifically felt a desire to fight the first boss again immediately after beating him because I know I can do so much better.

Already pretty clear to me I'm going to be running this raid dozens of times and I can't wait to get good enough at it to start helping the Kinderguardians out there. :)
 
S

stb

Member
rodiard said:
Yes, that is cool. Also
tomb ship platform section is awesome. Literally awesome--I was in awe!
Click to expand...

That, and the RAID SPOILER
piston jumping puzzle
have been the highlights of the raid for me, so far. Both times, my whole group was like "this is SO cool".

The scale and visual presentation of them is just really impressive, and they're really neat from a gameplay perspective.
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
Soon

@_mantis_: Trials of Osiris will return soon. We're not ready to share details yet, but when we are, you will be the first to know.

If ToO gives out guaranteed 310 gear lol RIP KF.
 
L

Lnkn52

Member
Ji66a after Oryx:
giphy.gif
 
E

E92 M3

Member
rodiard said:
Yes, that is cool. Also
tomb ship platform section is awesome. Literally awesome--I was in awe!
Click to expand...

Not a lot of people seem to get the reference, but Bungie was heavily influenced by the movie Independence Day. It was obvious to me right away.
 
O

ocean

Banned
Epyon MX said:
Thanks all for your replies. Good stuff. I'm very glad to have another raid. And I'm lookign forward to getting back in and seeing how our opinions mature as we play more.



Very encouraging. Thanks for sharing.



That's because the only person DPSing is the swordbearer, which is very different.



This type of magic only comes at the end of an attempt, and it is indeed a great feeling. But having someone go down in a bad way, and everyone shouting to revive him or take the relic over is exhilaration that happens during an attempt. So without recoveries, an encounter is X hours of beating your head against a boss, for that high once. Executing an amazing recovery and keeping the fight going can happen periodically while you bang your head against a boss. Skolas was a 20-30 minute fight, with all kinds of highs as you go through it and focus on revives and passing debuffs.

The ability to recover doesn't make a fight easier, it adds a new challenge and new mechanic to fights. You have to on the fly adjust. It's my favorite part of the game.



It's still fun, but self-wiping and waiting for synths isn't a lot of fun. And needing everyone to be 100% at all times for an hour of attempts is a lot to ask for. But I think a lot of why recovery screws up a run is we don't know the encounters well. As we gear up and learn the encounters, my hope is that we'll be able to recover better.
Click to expand...
You can still recover.

The greatest rush of our first Oryx clear is that we had 2 people die
during the last Echo dimension thing. He was under 10% health, I was standing in front of my TV so tense
and we still brought it back and killed him.

Again, this is all only relevant for a little while. Like Skolas and everything else in the game, the "do it perfect or it's a wipe" tier challenge will only last another week or two. Then you can have casual fun runs with 50% the execution demand, 10% the stress, and 1% the thrill.
 
T

TheAquaticApe

Member
I'm with you Zoba. I think mechanics wise, King's Fall pales in comparison to VoG. It has has some
inflated length
which just doesn't do it for me. Those types of segments in VoG were fun but respected my time as a player. All that said, I still enjoyed taking down Oryx, but as a Destiny Raid, it's not my favorite.
 
R

robertsan21

Member
I hope hard mode raid has different boss encounters every week. Like the strikes are a bit more random now, also Court of oryx Tier 3 is now Crota with sword and all. Just shows that Bungie are aiming to change things up with new fresh encounters.
 
E

everyday math

Banned
All the new loot system does is try to stop duplicate weapon drops. So we don't get #29forever.
The other important thing to take away from this is the changes that Bungie will be making to the RNG loot system. In Destiny 2.0 the system will have some procedures in place to limit the range of chosen items that can drop for you. This limit will be determined by the gear you already have as well as the weapons that have already dropped for you. Bungie has stated that these changes are meant to make each drop more meaningful - by reducing the amount of duplicate drops players get - and also to increase the chances of each drop actually pushing you forward in your level and goal of hitting the maximum level in Destiny.
Click to expand...
 
S

Skele7on

Banned
robertsan21 said:
I hope hard mode raid has different boss encounters every week. Like the strikes are a bit more random now, also Court of oryx Tier 3 is now Crota with sword and all. Just shows that Bungie are aiming to change things up with new fresh encounters.
Click to expand...

on the first dreadnaught mission me and a couple buddies tried to kill him when he spawned, the little coward ran away, but we shall be back to beat his ass as I have a feeling it may reward something cool.

Deku Tree said:
I hope it's 290. And I hope there is no difference between anything above 290 for power advantages in ToO.
Click to expand...

Daemul said:
Nah, Iron Banner will the the PvP event with lower light level gear, Trials on the other hand is the PvP equivalent of the Raid and it's gear with match it accordingly.
Click to expand...

We'll find out soon enough I guess, I just am really looking forward to having sweet ass PvP sweat matches back sans thorn and final round.
 
I

iRAWRasaurus

Banned
E92 M3 said:
It'll increase as time goes on. Defeating the raid for the first time is the most satisfying thing in gaming and it wouldn't be like that if it was easy.
Click to expand...
It will def go up, however I still believe its gonna be very very hard for casual players. Keep in mind we are on GAF and pretty nerdy/hardcore/really enjoy our hobby type of people.
Epyon MX said:
It's still fun, but self-wiping and waiting for synths isn't a lot of fun. And needing everyone to be 100% at all times for an hour of attempts is a lot to ask for. But I think a lot of why recovery screws up a run is we don't know the encounters well. As we gear up and learn the encounters, my hope is that we'll be able to recover better.
Click to expand...
Very true. Maybe after a little bit more playing with the raid and better gear, my opinion will change but as of now..I agree with Zoba and you Epyon MX. But each their own of course!

Deku Tree said:
Soon

@_mantis_: Trials of Osiris will return soon. We're not ready to share details yet, but when we are, you will be the first to know.

If ToO gives out guaranteed 310 gear lol RIP KF.
Click to expand...
hmmm lets say less than month..maybe early October? Just a random fun guess, I don't have any idea really ;)
 
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