And I do not want backtracking and stupid grappling puzzles and 1997-levels camera handling in DMC5
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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
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And I do not want backtracking and stupid grappling puzzles and 1997-levels camera handling in DMC5
RecursiveFault
Banned
Some people like to rebind Nero's gun specifically, since it lets you charge while doing other moves, easier.
Taunt is also Left touchpad by fault on PS4, so I set it to right stick click (R3).
And I do not want backtracking and stupid grappling puzzles and 1997-levels camera handling in DMC5
Yeah but there are games with better level design to take inspiration from than DmC
Yeah but there are games with better level design to take inspiration from than DmC
I am going to remain the ONLY member of DMC-gaf who vastly preferes DmC level design to pretty much everything else.
My list goes like this:
DmC levels ~ Bayonetta 2 levels > Bayonetta 1 levels > DMC3 >>>> DMC4 levels
storafötter
Member
Hey I kinda enjoyed them too for their different varierity but once I got to the level after the candy factory I was fed up with the grappling platforming. It became overused to a point. I hope I will pull through on the remaster edition and finish it this time.
In regards to DMC4 I will be trying the entire game for the first time, and I will say that I wasnt too fond of DMC3 backtracking part. I know I will be hating DMC4s level design which people have critisized for years but daat combat!
AgentLampshade
Member
I can understand preferring DmC's level design, but what I want is a return to DMC1's massive castle with some areas blocked off at first, a mirror world, misty grounds and the obligatory demon world mission (though with DMC3 aesthetics). Let me explore a level, not just pass through it.
RecursiveFault
Banned
I greatly prefer a linear level with very minor exploration elements like DMC3. I hate the place killer of getting lost in DMC1. Though something that splits that difference a bit better could be possible.
To be honest a better Bloody Palace would fit that desire to just keep going too, I suppose.
Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition R9 295x2 Benchmark Test Max Settings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=128&v=mgLPo7sRBy8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=128&v=mgLPo7sRBy8
ResidentDante
Member
I would love a return to the DMC1 style.
AgentLampshade
Member
Oh hey, EU preload is finally up!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The DTOID and Gamespot reviews are coming from two difference perspectives. DTOID's Chris Carter is a pretty hardcore action game fan. He holds DMC3 up as the pinnacle of the genre, he's always playing the hardest difficulties, getting a feel for the nuances of the mechanics. To him, adding 3 new characters with all their own moves and taunts and animations is a huge deal.
For a more casual player, they might not be into exploring every nook and cranny of the combat system, so you got some pretty swell combat inside some lousy level design, with awful non-combat stuff like the dice boards and those fuckin spinning things Nero smashes down the hall, a hugely repetitive game structure(that you have to play through again and again with Lady/Trish and Vergil), that lame buttrock combat song they play all the time, and outdated legacy camera system from 1996.
This is an enthusiast collection, meant for people who watch TrueStyle videos, rock DMC avatars on message boards, and know their Just Frames from their Jump Cancels.
For a more casual player, they might not be into exploring every nook and cranny of the combat system, so you got some pretty swell combat inside some lousy level design, with awful non-combat stuff like the dice boards and those fuckin spinning things Nero smashes down the hall, a hugely repetitive game structure(that you have to play through again and again with Lady/Trish and Vergil), that lame buttrock combat song they play all the time, and outdated legacy camera system from 1996.
This is an enthusiast collection, meant for people who watch TrueStyle videos, rock DMC avatars on message boards, and know their Just Frames from their Jump Cancels.
Wolf Akela
Member
Same. Let me have a lot of different pretty places to fight in. I think DMC1 style would be better off in a DMC spinoff. Modern DMC is already fights and combos. DMC1 was 50/50 with the action and adventure. I would argue DMC1 is closer to the approach of games like GoW.
Personally, my only gripe with DmC level design was that it was too easy to fall into the abyss during fights. I mean, yeah it's cool since I can jump between platforms, but it kinda takes a while to see myself fall into nothingness then back to some point on the ground I don't remember.
What I want in DMC5:
Combat: DMC4's depth, DMC3's polish
Enemy Design (Visual): DMC1/4
Enemy Design (Gameplay): DmC (minus color coding), DMC4, DMC3's combo fodders
Boss Design (Visual): DmC
Boss Design (Gameplay): DMC3's variety
Level Design: DmC
Throw in some extras, like all the extras DmC included (eg. practice mode). Customizable costumes would be nifty as well.
I noted "DMC3's polish" for combat because DMC4 had quite a number of rough edges.
You can't do hidden charge buffers in 4. There are lots of lag introduced like Lucifer and JC Shotgun. Loads of other issues. In the meantime, I don't really have that many complaints about DMC3: crappy RG+Back+Circle, laggy Grapple, underwhelming Crawler/Sword Pierce... that's probably everything.Did the tutorial mission on LDK with Vergil just to get my feet wet and did pretty bad, though I ended up with an A at the end.
I'm wondering if I should go back to Devil Hunter or maybe even Human in order to get more of the swing of things in control and get a bunch of proud souls for everyone's moves. I haven't played this game in quite a few years.
I'm wondering if I should go back to Devil Hunter or maybe even Human in order to get more of the swing of things in control and get a bunch of proud souls for everyone's moves. I haven't played this game in quite a few years.
Ha, that actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks! I'm sure that'll make it easier to use the charge shot.
Berial. Yeah I guess that's it. I just have to buy more upgrades first because all I had was the spear down maneuver.
The level design of DmC is boring and uninspired though. From what I remember of DmC it was straight corridors that led to open combat areas, rinse and repeat until the end. I don't remember much tight corridor combat at all in DmC.
If you're talking environment design, however, I'm more prone to agree with you.
Don't know about Bayo2 but I really dislike Bayo1's level design.
Constant scripted interruptions, QTEs, gimmicks and silly non-combat sections are all over the place. And don't get me started on the mini games. The last time I played it I just ended up playing sections of levels instead of levels as a whole.
And then there is also that garbage with the combat rating screen after every damn fight.
Really hope Itsuno doesn't take any cues from that level design.
DMC5 set in a Bitterblack Isle-like location (Dragon's Dogma) would be excellent. If they don't want to limit it to one location then a devil hunter style game with missions set in a wide variety of locations would be ideal, like discussed by us before.
Generally speaking, he can do very little to you if you keep your distance.
Iirc he has only two long range attacks and they are heavily telegraphed (the lunge and the pillars of fire from the ground).
He was a joke with Nero if you played keep away while firing off Charge Shot 3s.
Constant scripted interruptions, QTEs, gimmicks and silly non-combat sections are all over the place. And don't get me started on the mini games. The last time I played it I just ended up playing sections of levels instead of levels as a whole.
And then there is also that garbage with the combat rating screen after every damn fight.
Really hope Itsuno doesn't take any cues from that level design.
DMC5 set in a Bitterblack Isle-like location (Dragon's Dogma) would be excellent. If they don't want to limit it to one location then a devil hunter style game with missions set in a wide variety of locations would be ideal, like discussed by us before.
Generally speaking, he can do very little to you if you keep your distance.
Iirc he has only two long range attacks and they are heavily telegraphed (the lunge and the pillars of fire from the ground).
He was a joke with Nero if you played keep away while firing off Charge Shot 3s.
I put it on L1.
Over saturated colors and bad platforming isn't exactly what DMC5 needs. Sorry.
Not DMC3.
They hide it better but it has as much as, if not more, backtracking than DMC4.
I would rather they try something new, like no backtracking at all. DmC has very little of it but the levels themselves werent anything to write home about.
(dont remember DMC1 hehe, been too long since I played it)
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I haven't picked up this game, but I feel like this is the post that anyone who is considering getting the game should read.
DMC1 has a respectable amount of backtracking too, probably around the same level as DMC3
Ah I see, in that case they should just take a new approach.
I've honestly never had an issue with the backtracking. DMC1 and DMC3 had backtracking but it was to go back and do different things that you couldn't do before (semi Resident Evil style, which makes sense given some of the roots of the franchise), and they kept the backtracking reasonably in check. DMC4 is the only one that really improperly used backtracking because it was literally just the first half of the game done backwards.
DMC1 is the only game in the series with level design I genuinely love. With an awesome enemy collection, enemy mechanics, DT implementation and a cool atmosphere, there is so much from that game I would love to see return in the series. I still hold that game in ridiculously high regard.
AlfredX1990
Banned
All 3 good DMC games have backtracking, the problem with DMC4 is that they had less time to make it less apparent and Dante never got to fight his own bosses like originally planed
I think DMC1 has the most backtracking, I remember going through some places 3 or more times
I think DMC1 has the most backtracking, I remember going through some places 3 or more times
AgentLampshade
Member
DMC1's "backtracking" was mainly exploring the same part of the castle in a different way. Either the light went out in the entrance hall or you found yourself on the opposite side of the room with the massive gate. Finding out you were at some part of a previously inaccessible area was fun, and built up familiarity with the environment. It's why I consider the Temen-ni-gru and Mallet Castle to be characters in their own right, and Limbo City to be just a set of levels. Fortuna didn't have the subtlety Mallet had, nor the aesthetic appeal of the Temen-ni-gru and not to mention it was a simple "run through the levels again" instead of hiding it in the level design.
Edited for clarification.
Couldn't even tell you where DMC2 took place.
Edited for clarification.
Yeah DMC4 is more blatant but in the end they are about the same, on the plus side we did get to play with two distinct characters (5 in the SE).
While I don't think I necessarily want DMC to become a semi-open world game, I think Bloodborne would be a great place to look for inspiration regarding level design both from a design standpoint and from a cosmetic standpoint as well. I should play through Bloodborne while playing some of the ambient background music from DMC1 or 3 just to see how it works
badcrumble
Member
I'm a big fan of DmC's gorgeous level/environment art (outside of the rather dull industrial goop factory stuff), but I'd argue that the actual *design* (i.e. layout and pacing) of the levels is only about on DMC4's level for the most part.
DmC has some pretty decent arenas to fight in, though, if only because of the ability to fight enemies with nothing but an abyss below you and then air dash back to the platform, or that one harpy fight when you're surrounded by panels of shattering glass.
Honestly, I don't think any of the games in the entire series have particularly exemplary level design (or platforming, cough cough).
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I wonder why Mark didn't review DMC4:SE for gamespot, he usually reviews those types of games.
Regardless, people who review this game highly like DTOID and everyone thus far approach DMC4 like a fighting game with 5 selectable characters. The gamespot review reads of a person who wanted to experience the game from point A to point B, and not really invest in any of the mechanics, just experience what it has to offer from a visual and narrative perspective. Even reading his description, it seems he doesn't have much experience with action games, and to be honest, I kind of think he just played on automatic mode, because there is no way you can't credit the brilliant combat mechanics this game has, regardless of it's flaws in other areas.
But then again post E3 gamespot has just been laying down the review hammer on a bunch of games so maybe their just cranky from all the E3 work.
Regardless, people who review this game highly like DTOID and everyone thus far approach DMC4 like a fighting game with 5 selectable characters. The gamespot review reads of a person who wanted to experience the game from point A to point B, and not really invest in any of the mechanics, just experience what it has to offer from a visual and narrative perspective. Even reading his description, it seems he doesn't have much experience with action games, and to be honest, I kind of think he just played on automatic mode, because there is no way you can't credit the brilliant combat mechanics this game has, regardless of it's flaws in other areas.
But then again post E3 gamespot has just been laying down the review hammer on a bunch of games so maybe their just cranky from all the E3 work.
Ah, I can see how that works. I'll have to try that. Thank you.
DMC4SE is #5 right now on Steam's top sellers.
*Please sell well, please sell well*
They need to stop trying to make platforming happen in Devil May Cry.
*Please sell well, please sell well*
They need to stop trying to make platforming happen in Devil May Cry.
They did nail the jumping/platforming in Dragons Dogma.
It was to the point where I started paying attention to if I would miss any.
In over 60 hours of playing I only missed one iirc, and it was my fault.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
I don't know why people want DmC's level design. Outside of aesthetics it wasn't any different from what we had in other games.
Chris Carter is legit. Dude knows his action games.
Chris Carter is legit. Dude knows his action games.
It wouldn't be too bad if the jumping wasn't stiff as hell. DmC improved the jumping to an extent but the platforming in that game was pretty basic.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
They can do platforming now that they got rid of that stiff jump arc from DMC1-4 and its old RE1 camera system
I know some fans don't like to hear it, but not ALL of DmC's innovations to the series should be ignore going forward
I know some fans don't like to hear it, but not ALL of DmC's innovations to the series should be ignore going forward
I'm not really caught up on GPU benchmarks nowadays, but isn't this kind of bad for 295x2? This is at 1080p w/ 8xAA, and it's only hovering around 100 fps. I haven't done the tests, but I think my crappy 7850 would probably hover around 70 on the original non-SE release. I'd expect those results for 4K, but not at 1080p. That said, don't take my word for it - I could be underestimating the burden of 8xAA.
Well those are for DmC, we don't really know how any of that will effect the mainline series.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Worse performance than vanilla confirmed, I suppose?
The issue with the jump arc is that it's designed for combat with intentional limitations on horizontal movement. It's kind of a series staple, and why characters have other moves that give them horizontal clearance.
The camera should absolutely be improved, however.
Only real complaint so far is that the room transitions have slightly more loading than desired. Kind of stings when levels force you to traverse 3 screens away for a switch and then do the same in reverse to reach the new area. Those slight pauses in loading really get in the way.
badcrumble
Member
Yep. It's terrible when it happens in the classic series, but going from 'extremely awful' platforming to 'mediocre' platforming and then having ten times as much of it wasn't exactly an improvement.
I understand the basic concern of wanting pacing, something to break up the time between fights, et cetera, because just having each level be a total combat gauntlet with nothing else is a good way to kill all but the hardcore appeal of a game, and that the ability to walk, run, and jump around is important to a basic sense of geography within the game.
I think the basic principle of using those segments specifically to teach you mechanics useful to combat is what's best. DmC's platforming segments are about as interesting as PoP 2008's (they're both basically QTEs), but it *does* serve to teach players the difference between pulling yourself to things and pulling things toward you (though the angel dash is only really useful as a way from getting away from enemies mid-combat rather than clearing the distance to them). Bayonetta does a good job of breaking up combat with those lightning-bolt things that teach players to time their dodging well.
If DMC5 is going to have "levels" that are places you navigate through to find different combat encounters, rather than lots of mini-missions out of the shop as I hope, then I wouldn't mind if they'd have puzzles based on, for example, juggling objects to a certain height, or Bayo-esque dodge timing lessons (you'd be surprised how many people never seem to know about or master the dodge roll in DMC).
Or like laser grids or whatever is cool too.
Basically, I think it's important to critique both DmC and DMC4 and understand what they each did right and wrong, and though I generally prefer DMC4, I think some people go too far and basically claim that DMC should do absolutely nothing to make casual players (or people just playing to see the campaign) feel more comfortable and engaged, and I think that's really dangerous thinking.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I upgraded my PS4 stock HDD to a 1TB SSHD Seagate a few weeks ago.
load times are almost non-existent. So glad I did.