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[IbizaPocholo]

Devolver Founder Excited By PS5 And Next-Gen Xbox: 'It's Good For Everyone'

One of the founders of the Hotline Miami publisher shares his thoughts on the next wave of home consoles.

www.gamespot.com

Speaking to GameSpot at PAX Australia, Graeme Struthers said he's excited about the launch of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Project Scarlett in 2020 in part because those systems are expected to be attractive to all developers big and small.

This wasn't always the case, as Struthers--who has been with the company since he co-founded it in 2009---pointed out that the PS3/Xbox 360 generation wasn't the most inviting for indie developers.

"It's great," Struthers said of the upcoming release of the PS5 and next Xbox. "The previous generation, the one we're coming to the end of, was the one for companies like ourselves--we were allowed in. Previously it was pretty hard to be on PS3 and Xbox 360. For next-gen, we're in at the start. given the same opportunities as anybody else, which is great."

While Struthers is indeed excited about the potential for the PS5 and next Xbox to grow the gaming category overall, the executive observed that the new consoles seem to be more iterative in nature instead of dramatically different or improved versions of their predecessors.

"I think it is ever harder to tell the differences [between new consoles] but it's also cool that they're both coming in with a new generation [of consoles] because it means they are going to invest more money in this space, which will create more users," he said. "It's good for everyone. And to have Nintendo in such good, vibrant health as well, you've got three console platforms and Apple Arcade to mull over and Steam and Epic."

 

[A.Romero]

He sounds a little high.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

i mean no surprises. its just a pc with a controller. there is no weird stuff consoles used to have. pretty unfrotuante.

 

[The Cockatrice]

i mean no surprises. its just a pc with a controller. there is no weird stuff consoles used to have. pretty unfrotuante.

Hopefully that means better/easier/faster PC ports.

 

[Dontero]

Reminds me of people saying something similar back when new consoles were announced in 2012.
While first half of this gen for sure was boring af later part showed exactly how games changed.

Developers went from small linear levels cover based shooters to open world gass shooters.
Such change wouldn't be possible without extra power console had. Same with rise of battle royale games which again rely on open worlds.

So claiming new consoles will be the same as before makes no sense as no one is Houdini.

One thing is sure though, microtransaction peaked in this gen which is absolute bullshit.
I am mainly PC user so i am happy to ignore most of those games since i have shitload of others to play.

 

[bitbydeath]

Dramatically reducing load times if not having the ability to remove them altogether is pretty huge.

Same with pop-in becoming a PC exclusive feature.

 

[TUROK]

The only reason that older consoles seemed like such a big leap is because rasterization and online tech was in its infancy.

I genuinely believe that VR can be a real game changer, though, and the additional power that these consoles have can help advance the tech and its implementations.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

What AAA games does Devolver publish? Aside from remaster of Serious Sam and the Shadow Warrior reboots which are AA at best (love those games) i see nothing an increased GPU/CPU will do to change the status quo for indie devs and publishers whos games can run on hardware from 2005 with no problems.
No disrespect to DD but why should thier opinion on anything next gen matter if all thier games are pixle 8-16 bit throwbacks or have a low graphical ceiling?

 

[Spukc]

What AAA games does Devolver publish? Aside from remaster of Serious Sam and the Shadow Warrior reboots which are AA at best (love those games) i see nothing an increased GPU/CPU will do to change the status quo for indie devs and publishers whos games can run on hardware from 2005 with no problems.
No disrespect to DD but why should thier opinion on anything next gen matter if all thier games are pixle 8-16 bit throwbacks or have a low graphical ceiling?

Try serious sam 3 im vr
You need a pretty beefy PC to run that one

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Try serious sam 3 im vr
You need a pretty beefy PC to run that one

VR is a different matter entirely though.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeap... sure.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Sounds like he doesn't have devkits yet

 

[ookami]

What AAA games does Devolver publish? Aside from remaster of Serious Sam and the Shadow Warrior reboots which are AA at best (love those games) i see nothing an increased GPU/CPU will do to change the status quo for indie devs and publishers whos games can run on hardware from 2005 with no problems.
No disrespect to DD but why should thier opinion on anything next gen matter if all thier games are pixle 8-16 bit throwbacks or have a low graphical ceiling?

No disrespect but why should players with no insight on game development and embedded/form factor hardware matter? I'm just teasing you there but to be fair you don't need to be an AAA developer to make this kind of statement. It is not like he's going for an opinion on precise development with ray-tracing hardware acceleration for example.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what we're getting next year to be sure about the real capabilities and restrictions of the hardware.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

People having been saying since the PS2 that the next gen isn't going to be as impressive and I disagree. Sure its not the leap from SNES to N64 but its annoying hearing people say the difference isn't noticeable when it clearly is.
The current gen systems were not as big of a leap in technical power over the PS360 generation but developers still were able to deliver amazing things. What were hearing about next gen it sounds like were finally getting a substantial upgrade and I can't wait to see what they can do with it.

 

[Romulus]

I genuinely believe that VR can be a real game changer, though, and the additional power that these consoles have can help advance the tech and its implementations.

I think VR will see the biggest leap. Just having a decent CPU alone will really help developers on the console side. I read a few quotes from devs saying they couldn't get their games running because of the jaguar and mandatory locked 60fps.

 

[demigod]

There’s a giant leap in graphics on current gen between devolver digital and AAA devs.

 

[FranXico]

Same with pop-in becoming a PC exclusive feature.

It might start out like that, but it won't stay like that forever though.
Developers always find a way to push the hardware to its limits.

 

[diffusionx]

Reminds me of people saying something similar back when new consoles were announced in 2012.
While first half of this gen for sure was boring af later part showed exactly how games changed.

Developers went from small linear levels cover based shooters to open world gass shooters.
Such change wouldn't be possible without extra power console had. Same with rise of battle royale games which again rely on open worlds.

So claiming new consoles will be the same as before makes no sense as no one is Houdini.

One thing is sure though, microtransaction peaked in this gen which is absolute bullshit.
I am mainly PC user so i am happy to ignore most of those games since i have shitload of others to play.

So thanks to the power of the consoles we got 5000 interchangeable looter shooters with annoying gacha shit? Great. Can’t wait to see what the next gen will give us then.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Iterative in nature? Does he mean compared to the previous gen or the next gen consoles compared to each other? Every new gen is about one thing above all else: power. Next gen is going to have precisely more of that. No one sits there and wonders what new awesome gimmick their next gen console will include. OMG will it make coffee for me?! They simply want a better system, which means more power. That in turn will lead to more native 4k games, more games that incorporate HDR, ray tracing, and SSD's for all around benefits. I think next gen is going to be far more impressive in terms of what devs can accomplish when compared to the current gen over the previous gen. Maybe I'll end up eating crow for saying that, but I'm excited. It's not just the extra power in the systems but the way I foresee ray tracing evolve next gen. It should only get better as devs continue to work with that new technique.

 

[Phase]

The only reason that older consoles seemed like such a big leap is because rasterization and online tech was in its infancy.

I genuinely believe that VR can be a real game changer, though, and the additional power that these consoles have can help advance the tech and its implementations.

I've started to change my tune with VR. Once it is fully supported and a bit more matured I won't hesitate to invest in it. I would love to get a nice setup for sim racing (like GT) but I'm not sold on it just yet for the amount of money you've got to put down. Can't wait to see the future tech advancements in this regard.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Honestly, I feel that the visual discrepancy won’t be as significant as the previous console generations especially due to the mid generation console upgrades. PS5 and Xbox2 will obviously look better in practically all categories, but I feel most developers will focus on framerates, vastness of worlds, interactivity and physics more than before.

 

[Danjin44]

My take is next gen will be just like this gen just with better quality texture, bigger open worlds and more detailed models, you wont see some kind of next revolution in gaming. I'm also type of person that believes unique gameplay and mechanics comes from designers rather than tech. I also believe next gen will be worse for western developers because as they get more powerful tech they will more interested giving us even more hyper realistic graphics for sake of immersion game gameplay and everything else will be afterthought.

 

[Fbh]

I expect a similar jump than the one we got this gen. So I expect nicer looking games, better resolutions, hopefully better frame rates and with SSD as a standard feature faster loading times are almost guaranteed.
But not a "OMG this is lightyears ahead, games on X1X literally look like trash now" type of upgrade which some people always expect when it's time for a new gen.

I remember early on this gen a lot of people complained that the increase in power wasn't big enough or that it was only a "slight" upgrade but to me it felt pretty notorious from day one. We had Battlefield 4 looking much nicer while targeting 60fps and finally going with 64 players on console

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think the atmospheric effects in games are going to see the most improvement. Feel much more believable and a little bit closer to the CG quality.

 

[Shangounchained]

Devolver Founder Excited By PS5 And Next-Gen Xbox: 'It's Good For Everyone'

One of the founders of the Hotline Miami publisher shares his thoughts on the next wave of home consoles.

www.gamespot.com

Speaking to GameSpot at PAX Australia, Graeme Struthers said he's excited about the launch of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Project Scarlett in 2020 in part because those systems are expected to be attractive to all developers big and small.

This wasn't always the case, as Struthers--who has been with the company since he co-founded it in 2009---pointed out that the PS3/Xbox 360 generation wasn't the most inviting for indie developers.

"It's great," Struthers said of the upcoming release of the PS5 and next Xbox. "The previous generation, the one we're coming to the end of, was the one for companies like ourselves--we were allowed in. Previously it was pretty hard to be on PS3 and Xbox 360. For next-gen, we're in at the start. given the same opportunities as anybody else, which is great."

While Struthers is indeed excited about the potential for the PS5 and next Xbox to grow the gaming category overall, the executive observed that the new consoles seem to be more iterative in nature instead of dramatically different or improved versions of their predecessors.

"I think it is ever harder to tell the differences [between new consoles] but it's also cool that they're both coming in with a new generation [of consoles] because it means they are going to invest more money in this space, which will create more users," he said. "It's good for everyone. And to have Nintendo in such good, vibrant health as well, you've got three console platforms and Apple Arcade to mull over and Steam and Epic."

I've always talked about memory but idiots online keep talking about SSD, die size, CPU GPU teraflops.... The most important component in a game is ram and both Sony and Microsoft never talk about it because they know it's a sensitive issue ram capacity is what differentiates old consoles from new, I don't care about silly ssd loading times and raytracing shadows.

 

[Shangounchained]

I expect a similar jump than the one we got this gen. So I expect nicer looking games, better resolutions, hopefully better frame rates and with SSD as a standard feature faster loading times are almost guaranteed.
But not a "OMG this is lightyears ahead, games on X1X literally look like trash now" type of upgrade which some people always expect when it's time for a new gen.

I remember early on this gen a lot of people complained that the increase in power wasn't big enough or that it was only a "slight" upgrade but to me it felt pretty notorious from day one. We had Battlefield 4 looking much nicer while targeting 60fps and finally going with 64 players on console

It's pointless to make the ps5 that looks like a jump from PS4 to pro it's the stupidest idea of all ideas ever, this shit is what apple do with iPhones not consoles if I buy a ps5 it better be a playstation fucking 5

 

[Generic]

Reminds me of people saying something similar back when new consoles were announced in 2012.
While first half of this gen for sure was boring af later part showed exactly how games changed.

Developers went from small linear levels cover based shooters to open world gass shooters.
Such change wouldn't be possible without extra power console had. Same with rise of battle royale games which again rely on open worlds.

So claiming new consoles will be the same as before makes no sense as no one is Houdini.

One thing is sure though, microtransaction peaked in this gen which is absolute bullshit.
I am mainly PC user so i am happy to ignore most of those games since i have shitload of others to play.

Hmm, but this has nothing to do with hardware power.

 

[Shangounchained]

Hmm, but this has nothing to do with hardware power.

The difference from generations before was ram it's always ram that's why it's always the last thing they reveal, cause that's what differentiates a last gen game from a new one we came from 32mb on ps2 to 512mb on PS3 and 8gb on PS4 16x every gen and now that they can't pull out 128gb on ps5 they have to talk about reducing loading times and raytracing reflections that's the only bullshit they can achieve because memory is expensive!

 

[fermcr]

The difference will be... more pixels.

 

[Dontero]

Hmm, but this has nothing to do with hardware power.

Except it does have everything to do with power

 

[Whitecrow]

I dont think he is talking about 'graphic' or power differences, more like ecosystem differences. He is talking about how new consoles seems like the previous ones but just more power, instead of a pack of new things and innovations.
thats my take on his words.

 

[daninthemix]

Dramatically reducing load times if not having the ability to remove them altogether is pretty huge.

Same with pop-in becoming a PC exclusive feature.

Your PC must suck. I haven't seen pop-in in 7 or 8 years.

 

[bitbydeath]

Your PC must suck. I haven't seen pop-in in 7 or 8 years.

Most people still play in 1080P too, just because you don’t see pop-in doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist on lesser machines.

 

[H4ze]

Personally I am fine with that. I don't expect a big leap in visuals.
And to be honest, I would prefer more stable games targeting higher frame rates, more particles and better AI + physics.
Games are already looking absolutely stunning, just improve the overall performance, I am cool with that.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Devolver Boss Defends Steam Amid Epic Store And Exclusivity Controversy

The publisher of Hotline Miami calls for a "reset" of the conversation about Steam and Epic.

www.gamespot.com

 

[Hobbygaming]

I feel like we always hear these things before every new console generation, but then we still end up with games that blow us away

 

[Journey]

Except it does have everything to do with power

Open world games have always been possible, I mean, you could've used stick figures in an open plain background

 

[Kenpachii]

They are right, next gen is pretty much a PS4 + or a budget PC.

 

[Hobbygaming]

There will be a significant jump in AAA games and some AA next generation

+Navi
+SSDs will free up memory in games because of less duplicated assets
+Partial raytracing

Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Bend, GG, Rockstar, Ubisoft, CDPR

We'll be amazed

 

[LordOfChaos]

That's the case at the start of most generations, and more so over time.

Early 360/PS3 titles often looked like 720p versions of what you'd expect from their predecessors, but that generation had some impressive output for what it was towards the middle and end.

 

[TeamGhobad]

SSD, big boost in CPU, Raytracing....ya these things are gamechangers.

 

[Kenpachii]

Hows faster load speed, a bit faster cpu speed and some better light sources ( even if they can get that to work which is atm highly doubtful in any way ) gamechangers?

It's just a enhancement of what we already got.

What games cannot be done on the PS4 that could be done on the PS5? nothing.

This exactly what they mean.

The whole "oh we love everything, everything is super exciting guys is just your typical filler of please don't hate us because we have a opinion".

It's like saying something critical but first have to list u love everything about the person u say something critical about otherwise u get shit on type of communication on top of it.

 

[Sosokrates]

I'm sure some devs said the same thing about this gen...
It's pretty obvious how the next consoles will be different.

 

[LittleBusters]

Sony has the better games.

 

[NickFire]

I am perfectly content with iterative.

 

[Fbh]

It's pointless to make the ps5 that looks like a jump from PS4 to pro it's the stupidest idea of all ideas ever, this shit is what apple do with iPhones not consoles if I buy a ps5 it better be a playstation fucking 5

I'm not talking about the jump from Ps4 to Pro.
I'm talking about the Jump from Ps3 to 4.

Which means nicer looking games, better graphics, better resolutions, more consistent framerates (hopefully more 60fps stuff), faster loading times and devs being able to accomplish things they couldn't do on consoles before (just like Battlefield finally being able to bring 64 player matches to consoles this gen).

But much like the jump from Ps3 to 4 I don't expect it to be this mind melting leap forward. People complained about PS4 not being a big enough jump from Ps3 and I expect the same will happen with Ps5, specially early on with cross gen games and ports.

 

[digital_ghost]

What games cannot be done on the PS4 that could be done on the PS5? nothing.

I’ll prepare the crow turkey feast next year , if you don’t eat it’s rude to the cook.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I've always talked about memory but idiots online keep talking about SSD, die size, CPU GPU teraflops.... The most important component in a game is ram and both Sony and Microsoft never talk about it because they know it's a sensitive issue ram capacity is what differentiates old consoles from new, I don't care about silly ssd loading times and raytracing shadows.

More memory isn't going to make these systems any more impressive than they already come off as. More GDDR6 is not a game-changing technology.

Also RAM is not really the most important component; CPU features, memory bandwidth, cache, and system documentation/ease-of-access are arguably at least as important if not moreso. PS2 had less RAM than GC and OG Xbox but could do particle effects better than any other system that gen (go see the fog in Silent Hill 2 on PS4 vs. Xbox port; massively cut down). Dreamcast had a weaker CPU than PS2 but had better resolution output and texturing capabilities (Silent Hill 3's one of the few PS2 games that has upper-tier texture work compared to something like Shenmue II). SNES had a weaker CPU and less/slower RAM bandwidth than Genesis but better color palette capabilities and Mode 7 built-in, etc.

RAM's never been the main factor in a console, and it never well. No point loading 48GB of RAM into a system with a processor that won't be fast or efficient enough to make use of all of that steadily.

+SSDs will free up memory in games because of less duplicated assets

Debatable. SSD's will speed up loads of assets from storage to memory, but it's not going to "free up" GDDR6 memory because for starters, NAND is magnitudes slower than GDDR6 (or any DRAM really) in latency. Secondly, NAND has lower data bus bandwidth per chip than GDDR6 (8-bit/16-bit vs. 32-bit), let alone most DRAM (with 64-bit data buses). Third, most NAND besides Intel's Optane Persistent Memory is not byte-addressable, so it can't have its code executed from storage (vs. NOR flash, which can), and while it's readable at a page level like DRAM, is magnitudes slower (while still losing the ability to be byte-addressable like DRAM and NOR flash).

We COULD maybe get some 8-16GB or even 24-32GB Persistent Memory-style 3D Xpoint stuff in these systems, but latencies would reduce them to a very large L4/L5 cache since IIRC Persistent Memory latencies are currently around 350ns (for comparison, GDDR6's is around 10ns if not less per chip, and something like L1 cache is within single digits (usually less than 1ns)). But at least this would make them byte-addressable for writes, which is a big step up from traditional SSDs.

 

[Sosokrates]

Hows faster load speed, a bit faster cpu speed and some better light sources ( even if they can get that to work which is atm highly doubtful in any way ) gamechangers?

It's just a enhancement of what we already got.

What games cannot be done on the PS4 that could be done on the PS5? nothing.

This exactly what they mean.

The whole "oh we love everything, everything is super exciting guys is just your typical filler of please don't hate us because we have a opinion".

It's like saying something critical but first have to list u love everything about the person u say something critical about otherwise u get shit on type of communication on top of it.

To be fair there hasn't been a "game changer" in gens, since PS1 - ps2.
Every gen is iterative.
I think next gen the main improvement will come from the CPU, SSD and RAM. I think the combination of the SoC and SSD will allow devs to do far more expansive worlds, the CPU will allow for far more Npcs and more realistic npcs and game worlds.

I hope by the end of the gen some devs go crazy and we have like 1080p games but are crazy in everything else they are doing.

 

[mortal]

It sounds like Devolver Digital haven't received any devkits.