-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF Direct Weekly #180: The PS5 Pro Breakdown: GT7, TLOUp2, Ratchet, Horizon, Alan Wake 2 + More!
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
Bojji
Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The paid and unpaid negative pushers of PS5 Pro news don't care about context or facts sadly.
Topher
Gold Member
DF Weekly: PS5 Pro's PSSR AI upscaling could be a game-changer
Armed with broadcast quality footage, Digital Foundry re-assesses the PS5 Pro's contentious reveal.www.eurogamer.net
Good read, basically don’t stress about native pixel count, PSSR is doing a much better job in driving a convincing final output.
Richard is upset with you.
"It was somewhat disappointing to see newcomers to the DF Supporter Program share those details this weekend ahead of the show's public release and with none of the surrounding, crucial context."
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
7600 is 100% better than PS5 Pro CPU for
That CPU is $200 by itself though. $200!!!!! How are you guys not understanding this by now?!
Bojji
Member
That CPU is $200 by itself though. $200!!!!! How are you guys not understanding this by now?!
So? Zen 2 used in Pro costs sony peanuts and console is 700-900$ (depending where you live).
omegasc
Member
You can't do that. It's gotta be illegal or something.
CloudShiner
Member
Last edited:
Topher
Gold Member
From the DF article....
"I can understand why some users may find some of the numbers above alarming. It's not necessarily true of Sony's first-party efforts, but many games are running at low resolutions on the standard PlayStation 5, with FSR 2 upscaling pushed too far in attempting to hit 1440p or 4K outputs. However, already we can see that the upscaling quality of PSSR lacks many of the profound issues we've noted when FSR 2 is running at very low resolutions. It's early days, it's not perfect, but there's grounds for optimism."
Regarding Alan Wake 2...
"Based on our testing, Alan Wake 2 runs at 864p internal resolution on PlayStation 5 Pro in the 60fps clip, while the equivalent base PS5 mode operates at 847p. Firstly, we can safely assume that in transitioning from FSR 2 upscaling to PSSR, we will see a substantial quality upgrade. However, perhaps more important is to consider what Remedy will be doing with the Pro's extra resources in increasing quality elsewhere because obviously, the extra GPU horsepower in the Big Three is going to be used for features that Remedy prefers over simply increasing resolution. This is basic commonsense."
"Just to be clear then: if a game runs at a 'low' resolution on PS5, and an equally 'low' resolution on PS5 Pro, they are not the same thing. Improved upscaling makes a difference, but bearing in mind the extra horsepower of the Pro, we can imagine that the developers are doing more with those pixels."
Still need to see more analysis, but for me, those are some key points at this early stage. Not nearly the doom and gloom that some are projecting here.
"I can understand why some users may find some of the numbers above alarming. It's not necessarily true of Sony's first-party efforts, but many games are running at low resolutions on the standard PlayStation 5, with FSR 2 upscaling pushed too far in attempting to hit 1440p or 4K outputs. However, already we can see that the upscaling quality of PSSR lacks many of the profound issues we've noted when FSR 2 is running at very low resolutions. It's early days, it's not perfect, but there's grounds for optimism."
Regarding Alan Wake 2...
"Based on our testing, Alan Wake 2 runs at 864p internal resolution on PlayStation 5 Pro in the 60fps clip, while the equivalent base PS5 mode operates at 847p. Firstly, we can safely assume that in transitioning from FSR 2 upscaling to PSSR, we will see a substantial quality upgrade. However, perhaps more important is to consider what Remedy will be doing with the Pro's extra resources in increasing quality elsewhere because obviously, the extra GPU horsepower in the Big Three is going to be used for features that Remedy prefers over simply increasing resolution. This is basic commonsense."
"Just to be clear then: if a game runs at a 'low' resolution on PS5, and an equally 'low' resolution on PS5 Pro, they are not the same thing. Improved upscaling makes a difference, but bearing in mind the extra horsepower of the Pro, we can imagine that the developers are doing more with those pixels."
Still need to see more analysis, but for me, those are some key points at this early stage. Not nearly the doom and gloom that some are projecting here.
Last edited:
Topher
Gold Member
I don't believe you. Prove me wrong and buy me one too.
Vick
Gold Member
I can't really say I'm surprised so far by the Part II analysis.. a handful of frames compared and, while we got to know PSSR tends to blur a bit blades of glass compared to Native, which is certainly interesting and something I hadn't noticed, not a single mention of the extremely noticeable improved IQ on Pro over PS5 Fidelity.
I believe these were posted enough times already, just one more as complementary to what DF discovered shouldn't hurt.
Apparently differences so discernible in the IGN high-bitrate encode became too hard to notice in their ProRes file. Or not worthy of a single mention.. but again I won't pretend to be surprised.
On to the rest of the video, but I'll also say immediately John absence feel weird.
I believe these were posted enough times already, just one more as complementary to what DF discovered shouldn't hurt.
Apparently differences so discernible in the IGN high-bitrate encode became too hard to notice in their ProRes file. Or not worthy of a single mention.. but again I won't pretend to be surprised.
On to the rest of the video, but I'll also say immediately John absence feel weird.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Should go without saying but considering the discord in this thread and others, I understand why they have to spell it out for simpletons.
Bojji
Member
Zathalus
Member
Richard is upset with you.
"It was somewhat disappointing to see newcomers to the DF Supporter Program share those details this weekend ahead of the show's public release and with none of the surrounding, crucial context."
"I can understand why some users may find some of the numbers above alarming. It's not necessarily true of Sony's first-party efforts, but many games are running at low resolutions on the standard PlayStation 5, with FSR 2 upscaling pushed too far in attempting to hit 1440p or 4K outputs. However, already we can see that the upscaling quality of PSSR lacks many of the profound issues we've noted when FSR 2 is running at very low resolutions. It's early days, it's not perfect, but there's grounds for optimism.
Based on our testing, Alan Wake 2 runs at 864p internal resolution on PlayStation 5 Pro in the 60fps clip, while the equivalent base PS5 mode operates at 847p. Firstly, we can safely assume that in transitioning from FSR 2 upscaling to PSSR, we will see a substantial quality upgrade. However, perhaps more important is to consider what Remedy will be doing with the Pro's extra resources in increasing quality elsewhere because obviously, the extra GPU horsepower in the Big Three is going to be used for features that Remedy prefers over simply increasing resolution. This is basic commonsense."
This is a important quote here. If the final res is still 800p, then can it still look good with PSSR on a big screen TV? Obviously, it will be substantially better than the base consoles like Richard stated, but how will remedy make this look good if the base res still 800p?
Based on our testing, Alan Wake 2 runs at 864p internal resolution on PlayStation 5 Pro in the 60fps clip, while the equivalent base PS5 mode operates at 847p. Firstly, we can safely assume that in transitioning from FSR 2 upscaling to PSSR, we will see a substantial quality upgrade. However, perhaps more important is to consider what Remedy will be doing with the Pro's extra resources in increasing quality elsewhere because obviously, the extra GPU horsepower in the Big Three is going to be used for features that Remedy prefers over simply increasing resolution. This is basic commonsense."
This is a important quote here. If the final res is still 800p, then can it still look good with PSSR on a big screen TV? Obviously, it will be substantially better than the base consoles like Richard stated, but how will remedy make this look good if the base res still 800p?
twilo99
Gold Member
I dunno maybe ask ur mum
GHG
Member
akira__
Banned
ALEX: "depending on what you want todo with ps5 pro, maybe you dont need to buy a ps5 pro"
I shudder to think about what he thinks people would like todo with a console...
Last edited:
Obviously what he is saying is not wrong though, but that come from a hard-core pc player perspective. He mentions path tracing, and 60 fps no matter what which is the Pro can't provide this.
However in order to get these 2 check box, how much more are you willing to spend and how comfortable you are switching from your couch to a desk? He did not consider these thing, but it is a big deal for most people,
GHG
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Interesting thread... I am actually speechless.
My 2 cents.... the overwhelming attention this is getting from the PC people, is a testament to what this machine has achieved. Typically, it would be Xbots doing this.
Now its the PCMR. I take that as a compliment.
My 2 cents.... the overwhelming attention this is getting from the PC people, is a testament to what this machine has achieved. Typically, it would be Xbots doing this.
Now its the PCMR. I take that as a compliment.
Zathalus
Member
It won’t look like a native 4K image. But you don’t necessarily need a native 4K like image to look good. Something close to 1440p works well (especially sitting at regular TV viewing distances) as long as you have that image stability and artifact elimination that ML based upscaling brings.
Topher
Gold Member
kevboard
Member
That's like saying that you should feel strong after someone knocked you out...
the PC talk is to loud because this is the first time where a console launches and has almost zero price/value advantage over a same spec/better spec PC
Vick
Gold Member
Time-Stamped:
I'm not going to download 1 hour long video to make GIFs, but there is at least one pretty noticeable advantage of PSSR over DLSS 4K Max on Ratchet.
The final output looks incredibly similar (minus settings of course), especially considering one is still a video re-encoded and the other raw capture, but absolutely zero ghosting on those ballons with PSSR when it's definitely noticeable on Nvidia solution instead.
Zero mention of this of course, at the moment. Perhaps the DoF, absent on PS5, exacerbate this phenomenon?
Curious to see the rest of the video to find out what ultimately brings them to regard PSSR as the inferior solution.
Last edited:
Mr.Phoenix
Member
This unfortunately is the issue. Especially with mass market products like these. I almost understand why sony just put out a 9 min video.
A lot of ople just don't understand the underlying tech, and as such its also easy to mislead people.
To answer your question though, the base rez doesn't matter in this case.
on the PS5, its fidelity mode is running internally at ~800p. But that is not what you are seeing, what you are seeing on your TV, is a very noisy representation of something like 1440p. They accomplish that by using FSR2, which is an image reconstruction tech that basically generates a 1440p image (in this case) using only ~800p worth of natively rendered pixels.
The PS5pro, is doing the same thing with ~800p base rez, but the difference is that it's not using FSR2, its using PSSR, which is an AI accelerated form of the same reconstruction tech, and is probably reconstructing that image to fit a 4K rez window. That alone would mean that your resultant image will look a lot better than the FSR method.
having said that though, this is still leaving a lot of untapped power in the PS5pro, because at this point all they have done is replace FSR with PSSR. Remey will then go on to make this look even better, by now using that extra GPU muscle to add in graphical features that were otherwise lacking in the performance mode on the base PS5. Like some RT stuff, better geometry...etc.
No one has knocked anyone out.
And no, I am sure you would like to think this, but the PC noise is loud because they are a bunch of insecure disingenuous idiots.
And that statement you just said about zero whatever, is kinda proof of that. But carry on I guess.
Last edited:
demigod
Member
Holyshit. The way he speaks, no wonder why he was wearing a skirt.
Topher
Gold Member
No one got knocked out and it doesn't matter. Consoles are king of gaming in the living room. PCs are king of gaming on the desktop. Anecdotal exceptions aside, that is how this all shakes out. PS5 Pro is going to change nothing in that regard.
akira__
Banned
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
Time-Stamped:
I'm not going to download 1 hour long video to make GIFs, but there is at least one pretty noticeable advantage of PSSR over DLSS 4K Max on Ratchet.
The final output looks incredibly similar (minus settings of course), especially considering one is still a video re-encoded and the other raw capture, but absolutely zero ghosting on those ballons with PSSR when it's definitely noticeable on Nvidia solution instead.
Zero mention of this of course, at the moment. Perhaps the DoF, absent on PS5, exacerbate this phenomenon?
Curious to see the rest of the video to find out what ultimately brings them to regard PSSR as the inferior solution.
Ghosting is made worse by the rather aggressive DOF the game has. Not entirely eliminated with DOF disabled mind you, but not as egregious as you see in the video.
Bojji
Member
PC gamers are insecure about what exactly? This console has 2019 mid range CPU and GPU on a level of 3070ti.
Pssr shows console players what was available on PC for many years now.
What I see is buch of insecure console fanboys that can't believe that they favorite company wants to rip them off with mid update like this.
Last edited:
akira__
Banned
Should this become a thread?I can't really say I'm surprised so far by the Part II analysis.. a handful of frames compared and, while we got to know PSSR tends to blur a bit blades of glass compared to Native, which is certainly interesting and something I hadn't noticed, not a single mention of the extremely noticeable improved IQ on Pro over PS5 Fidelity.
I believe these were posted enough times already, just one more as complementary to what DF discovered shouldn't hurt.
Apparently differences so discernible in the IGN high-bitrate encode became too hard to notice in their ProRes file. Or not worthy of a single mention.. but again I won't pretend to be surprised.
On to the rest of the video, but I'll also say immediately John absence feel weird.
This post is selling the pro more then PlayStation.
Last edited:
Vick
Gold Member
Yeah I imagined, as it's much less noticeable on balloons not engulfed in DoF.
Also, just saw DLSS handling noticeably better the tree in the background.
I guess it kind of already is:
Trailer - Hardware - IGN's New High-Bitrate 4K/60fps Footage Finally Offers a Proper Taste of PS5 Pro's Potential
A true night and day difference compared to the, borderline cringe-inducing, original presentation stream: Even as a YouTube-encoded (and re-encoded again for the download) file, and even and especially considering the games they presented already have almost impeccable image quality in...
bundylove
Member
They dont have to spell it out to noone.
You have the usual paid shills on this site spreading fake news and you have the bitter xbox fans who love to shit on everutjing playstation and you have the pc wankers with their high spec rigs making fun of everyone ans everything console related.
I am amazed how much time and energy people have for this bullshit .
In all this time, from friday till last night i played astrobot and hogwards and couldnt be bothered to post in here anymore as its so childish ,all the things i read are half ass made up tales or suzuki to ferrari comparisons.
The best ones are the users who throw higj end pc's against the pro while they themself have a series s or maybe a pc with 3080 ti at best.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Lol tbf I'm pretty sure that was a photoshop but the guy can be crazily obnoxious, especially in a professional setting.
It is already, and its very good.
Trailer - Hardware - IGN's New High-Bitrate 4K/60fps Footage Finally Offers a Proper Taste of PS5 Pro's Potential
A true night and day difference compared to the, borderline cringe-inducing, original presentation stream: Even as a YouTube-encoded (and re-encoded again for the download) file, and even and especially considering the games they presented already have almost impeccable image quality in...
I would not form any conclusion right now regarding to value vs PC. And I am pretty sure for Sony first party games it even harder to form this conclusion.
Keep in mind that this is just a 9 minutes presentation. We need to see this properly test.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Nah, wasn’t. Alex has…particular tastes.
Topher
Gold Member
We PC gamers have been trumpeting DLSS for quite some time. It is great tech and made other tech like RT and PT more accessible without taking massive hits in frame rates.
If PSSR does for PS what DLSS did for PC gaming then it is far from a rip off. Even if it doesn't quite get all the way to DLSS level, that's a substantial upgrade from where it is now.
Last edited:
twilo99
Gold Member
That is a very rude reply.
Seriously though, who is this guy?
Hah yea X is full experts so I really don’t know just he is pretty active
demigod
Member
You really should stop with this considering AMD and Nvidia has been ripping off PC gamers for decades. You’re just making yourself and all of us who games on PC look bad.
Skifi28
Member
And a socket that is already dead, a GPU where you'll be stuck with crap RT and no AI...Jesus. Whoever makes these "builds" to try and make the pro appear bad does more damage to PC gaming.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Not gonna lie, I wasn't expecting this from you. Maybe I had you figured wrong all along? Always thought you were among the more level-headed people. And based on that initial impression, I would indulge you with an actual proper response.
Why is this so hard to understand... or more importantly, accept?
And what's worse is this, you cant make that statement, acknowledging that this thing is bringing something new to the table in the console space, and at the same time say its nothing, because its been on the PC for years. This is a console.... not a PC.
And they are not being ripped off... who are you to say that? How do you know this? Because you feel its should be priced at what? Why? based on what?
unless you can show me how you can build something priced at under $700 with equivalent power to a PS5pro, you simply cannot say anyone is being ripped off. Simple because you feel its a console and should not just be priced at under $700... but also come with some things.
Being more expensive than the norm, is not what it means to rip someone off. And I believe you know this.
And you say this, calling people fanboys? You need to see how you sound.
So? Its still better than the base PS5, which is the whole point of what its attempting to do. Its not attempting to be better than a $1200 PC, which is what you need to spend to match or beat this. Its attempting to be better than the base PS5. It accomplished what it set out to do.
Why is this so hard to understand... or more importantly, accept?
And that's a bad thing? Come the end of this year, every one that owns or used to buy AMD GPUs, will also be shown what they have been missing out with Nvidia GPUs since 2019. But that's a good thing, but when its down one a console... its bad?
And what's worse is this, you cant make that statement, acknowledging that this thing is bringing something new to the table in the console space, and at the same time say its nothing, because its been on the PC for years. This is a console.... not a PC.
Now this is a very shallow and ignorant take to make bro, all because certain people prefer to game or play on consoles doesn't make them sheeps.
And they are not being ripped off... who are you to say that? How do you know this? Because you feel its should be priced at what? Why? based on what?
unless you can show me how you can build something priced at under $700 with equivalent power to a PS5pro, you simply cannot say anyone is being ripped off. Simple because you feel its a console and should not just be priced at under $700... but also come with some things.
Being more expensive than the norm, is not what it means to rip someone off. And I believe you know this.
And you say this, calling people fanboys? You need to see how you sound.
kevboard
Member
lol. Starting that this is the first console to ever be a worse value than a PC has nothing to do with being insecure.
Additionally, now that we know that DLSS offers superior image quality you don't even need to match the exact GPU specs to get the same image quality.
proof that... this console is overpriced yeah
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Zathalus
Member
Er, no.
$699 PS5PRO => 860p + PSSR = 1440p 60FPS
$1800 4090 => Native 4K + DLAA = 4k 70FPS
$1800 4090 => 1440p+ DLSS + Path Tracing = 4k 100FPS.
Last edited: