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DF Direct Weekly #182: Ghost of Yōtei, Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster, New PS5 Pro Titles Revealed
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
midnightAI
Member
So the draw distance, foliage, animation, character models, etc. aren't impressive?
midnightAI
Member
James Sawyer Ford
Member
@ 31 mins
Re: GoWR bombing on PC
Alex doesn’t want Sony to get the wrong “message” from this and that they should release closer to day and date
Re: GoWR bombing on PC
Alex doesn’t want Sony to get the wrong “message” from this and that they should release closer to day and date
Also. It seems inside the city compare to the scence we are seeing here is not that difference in term of performance.Pretty sure that's entirely due to the different time of day.
Also because otherwise, having stronger, darker shadows would indicate weaker light bounce, which is usually the opposite of higher quality RTGI.
Impressive framerate improvement, but also kind of expected for those who didn't drink the FUD.. and gave the MLiD leak a chance.
This kinda disputes Alex insinuated that it will be much worst in the city when people posting that pro clip on twitter. He kinda suprised when when Oliver go over that segment. It practically the same lol. Maybe 1 to 2 frame better.
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Interesting listening to the part about the Series S.
All I will say is once the specs became known there were huge topics and hot debates about the ram in that console. I guess it took for the gen to hit its halfway point to finally accept it really was an issue.
All I will say is once the specs became known there were huge topics and hot debates about the ram in that console. I guess it took for the gen to hit its halfway point to finally accept it really was an issue.
Kaiserstark
Member
Yeah his channel is pretty great he worked on GTA V, Red Dead Redemption 2, Mortal Kombat 11, God of War Ragnarök and Callisto Protocol. So i think we can say he knows what he's talking about.
midnightAI
Member
And Horizon Forbidden West looks like an enhanced Horizon Zero Dawn, doesn't mean the changes aren't significant. The draw distance alone is a massive improvement as is the foliage which was already impressive.
Fake
Member
HFW was a crossgen game.
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Edellus
Member
Oliver has quickly become my favourite DF member. He is very eloquent, provides interesting points of view and is often prepared with details and information pertinent to the conversation (and if not, he looks for it immediately).
Now, about Ghost of Yotei: I don't understand the outrage in this thread. It looks like some people are borderline offended that DF didn't throw flowers at the graphics of the game (along with some mighty weird hate, kind of kinky even, fetish towards Alex) and are reducing and misrepresenting what they said. The DF crew are explicitly talking about being disappointed in regard to an expected perceived rendering generational leap. They haven't found any advanced technique being used in that trailer. Alex mentioned a greater distance for rendering vegetation compared to the first game and that's about it. They decided to not judge textures due to the video compression of the trailer. They never said the game looks bad nor judged that the art style is lacking. And I agree. It doesn't look like a generational leap apart from the first game. But that is not a bad thing. The first game looks gorgeous still. If the 2nd game only took an iterative approach to graphics rendering, then that is perfectly fine. To me, at least, it is the art style that carries how beautiful the first game looks.
Now, about Ghost of Yotei: I don't understand the outrage in this thread. It looks like some people are borderline offended that DF didn't throw flowers at the graphics of the game (along with some mighty weird hate, kind of kinky even, fetish towards Alex) and are reducing and misrepresenting what they said. The DF crew are explicitly talking about being disappointed in regard to an expected perceived rendering generational leap. They haven't found any advanced technique being used in that trailer. Alex mentioned a greater distance for rendering vegetation compared to the first game and that's about it. They decided to not judge textures due to the video compression of the trailer. They never said the game looks bad nor judged that the art style is lacking. And I agree. It doesn't look like a generational leap apart from the first game. But that is not a bad thing. The first game looks gorgeous still. If the 2nd game only took an iterative approach to graphics rendering, then that is perfectly fine. To me, at least, it is the art style that carries how beautiful the first game looks.
midnightAI
Member
And? They still made significant improvements for the PS5 version over the PS4, do you think the Zero Dawn remaster is massively improved over Forbidden West seeing as it's now PS5 only? (The best engines scale well)
Fake
Member
And explain why HFW looks like an upgrade. Even GoW Ragnarok was a cross gen game. I gave him a pass because was a crossgen game, GoY isn't.
GoY is not. Almost late generation game.
The game feels pretty lame to me, no matter the art direction. Rewatch GoT first trailer and you gonna see a huge downgrade over the release game, so I expecting the same situation here.
Nothing against art direction, but needs to be miles better to justify and I don't think Sony have been doing a good job this generation in the art direction departament.
Bojji
Gold Member
This remaster looks worse in some aspects. I don't know what the fuck they are doing.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
So was Callisto Protocol, Cyberpunk, and now Jedi Survivor to name a few. A game releasing on multiple platform generations tells us nothing about tech difference between the versions.
Fake
Member
I'm talking about sequels dude. HFW was a sequel to HZD, GoW: Ragnarok was a sequel to GoW. Pay attention to the discussion before posting.
And Jesus dude look at the state of Callisto Protocol last gen version before even consider bringing to the conversation.
midnightAI
Member
Not outrage but they mention about no ray tracing and no RTGI on the base PS5 version of the game, which is open world, with massive vistas, very long draw distance and dense foliage, I mean, come on, to get either RT reflections or RTGI in then sacrifices elsewhere would need to be made. Now Pro, who knows, if it really is a step up in regards to RT then maybe? But I wouldn't even count those there either.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
What significance does sequel vs non sequel have when analyzing tech enhancements between generations?
None.
Fake
Member
To the conversation I had with the other user?
You know we can't call Callisto Protocol 2 an updated version of first Callisto if the sequel doesn't even exist.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
@ 31 mins
Re: GoWR bombing on PC
Alex doesn’t want Sony to get the wrong “message” from this and that they should release closer to day and date
midnightAI
Member
You do realise you are comparing prerendered with realtime here?This remaster looks worse in some aspects. I don't know what the fuck they are doing.
Fake
Member
You mean, Digital Foundry is comparing prerendered with realtime?
They don't care too much as we saw today.
midnightAI
Member
Yes, they are
But people keep posting those comparisons as some kinda 'gotchya' not realising what is being compared.
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Bojji
Gold Member
Baby aloy stuff is pre recorded but there are also parts like here:
Better textures on rocks but model for Rost is still worse. Foliage also arguably better in some places in original.
midnightAI
Member
That doesn't look like a worse model to me unless you are talking about the hero lighting which they have added to all models it seems now (I actually like the hero lighting). I think this is getting to nit pick territory, they have updated the models and foliage to use the same as Forbidden West as well as other improvements like lighting, water effects, foliage density etc. FW is without question the better looking game so this will be brought up to those levels.Baby aloy stuff is pre recorded but there are also parts like here:
Better textures on rocks but model for Rost is still worse. Foliage also arguably better in some places in original.
owandeseis
Member
I wrote something like this in another thread a few days ago, back in 2010s several Sony games were considered the best looking games at that moment, but since 2020 they haven't shown anything in that range, Ratchet was the closest maybe.
Doesn't help that they haven't shown any new AAA IP's lately and the sequels are recycling some assets from their older games.
Now if we talk about animations, Mocap etc, they are still up there with Rockstar and not many else
Doesn't help that they haven't shown any new AAA IP's lately and the sequels are recycling some assets from their older games.
Now if we talk about animations, Mocap etc, they are still up there with Rockstar and not many else
Venom Snake
Member
Even the original GOT had more "wow" moments than most ray-traced shit i've seen so far. It's like a moving painting, mostly stylized and focused on the play of colors, not particularly realistic or technically accurate. Kinda reminds me of the visual concept of Witcher 3 in a way.
In my opinion, GOY would lose a lot if it deviated too much from this formula, art style is also a time-consuming thing, if it's to be the core of the game, let's focus on that.
After all, it is something that resonates with you instantly, unlike whether the faint light reflection on the floor is properly aligned with the window on the right, like who the fuck cares.
In my opinion, GOY would lose a lot if it deviated too much from this formula, art style is also a time-consuming thing, if it's to be the core of the game, let's focus on that.
After all, it is something that resonates with you instantly, unlike whether the faint light reflection on the floor is properly aligned with the window on the right, like who the fuck cares.
Mr Moose
Member
Jedi: Survivor is a sequel.
Fake
Member
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Kaiserstark
Member
This training montage is also prerendered on the PS4 version.Baby aloy stuff is pre recorded but there are also parts like here:
Better textures on rocks but model for Rost is still worse. Foliage also arguably better in some places in original.
Bojji
Gold Member
Maybe. Even so Rost appears later in the game in real time cutscenes for sure.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's disappointing to see people mock others for simply posting an opinion. Alex is a tool and im all for mocking him when he makes a fool of himself like he did last week, but what exactly did he say here thats wrong? or factually incorrect? It's clear there are no RT reflections, shadows or GI. It's true that aside from draw distance, the game looks virtually identical. He's not the only one saying that the game looks underwhelming. So why are we posting pics of him in a skirt?
This is Sony's first big first party exclusive since Spiderman 2 which itself didnt exactly push the bar that much. We should expect more from Sony first party. Especially from a studio like Sucker Punch who literally set the bar back in 2014 with Second Son. They are pretty much responsible for introducing Photo Modes to games because gaffers kept posting screenshots from the game. GoT looked phenomenal in 2020, and five years later on a new console, we all expected more.
I will settle for less. This game seems to be on par with Outlaws, AC Shadows and other next gen only games, but I am one of those fanboys who thought Sony studios were a cut above the competition. I have no idea wtf happened with Spiderman 2 but seeing GoT2 follow a similar minor upgrade is kind of bizarre when they arent even using taxing RT features. At least we can point to Avatar and Outlaws and say hey, maybe they dont look as good as UE5 games and demos because they are using rt shadows, gi and reflections. Whats going on here?
Just shutting down conversation like this is how we got to a point where we are looking at a first party game that will release 5 years after the ps5 launch, and feature none of the shit Cerny promised or none of the features shown in the UE5 demo we were convinced was only possible because of Sony's hardware. Cyberpunk came out with RTgi, reflections and shadows the same year GoT came out. And yet 5 years later, they cant even use the defining feature of this next gen console?
I dont care if they are a smallish 100 person studio. it didnt stop them before. If it's an issue now then Sony shouldve gotten them a UE5 license. First party games are rarer than ever nowadays so when we do get one, lets at least make sure it has next gen features and does what first party games are supposed to do; i.e., show third party whats possible on these consoles.
This is Sony's first big first party exclusive since Spiderman 2 which itself didnt exactly push the bar that much. We should expect more from Sony first party. Especially from a studio like Sucker Punch who literally set the bar back in 2014 with Second Son. They are pretty much responsible for introducing Photo Modes to games because gaffers kept posting screenshots from the game. GoT looked phenomenal in 2020, and five years later on a new console, we all expected more.
I will settle for less. This game seems to be on par with Outlaws, AC Shadows and other next gen only games, but I am one of those fanboys who thought Sony studios were a cut above the competition. I have no idea wtf happened with Spiderman 2 but seeing GoT2 follow a similar minor upgrade is kind of bizarre when they arent even using taxing RT features. At least we can point to Avatar and Outlaws and say hey, maybe they dont look as good as UE5 games and demos because they are using rt shadows, gi and reflections. Whats going on here?
Just shutting down conversation like this is how we got to a point where we are looking at a first party game that will release 5 years after the ps5 launch, and feature none of the shit Cerny promised or none of the features shown in the UE5 demo we were convinced was only possible because of Sony's hardware. Cyberpunk came out with RTgi, reflections and shadows the same year GoT came out. And yet 5 years later, they cant even use the defining feature of this next gen console?
I dont care if they are a smallish 100 person studio. it didnt stop them before. If it's an issue now then Sony shouldve gotten them a UE5 license. First party games are rarer than ever nowadays so when we do get one, lets at least make sure it has next gen features and does what first party games are supposed to do; i.e., show third party whats possible on these consoles.
//DEVIL//
Member
Richard said it best. evolution of the first game.
which is disappointing considering the first is a PS4 game and this is a PS5 game. some would expect a generational difference between these 2 games. clearly, this is not it ( at least in terms of character design to me at least ).
But I loved the first game so I am not complaining about the graphics. Thank god they didn't announce the last of Us Part 2 the real remake or something similar Horizon. I'll take it.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
DF Direct lives in igloos it’s gotten to the point where no games look good to them.
Senua
Member
Pretty much any thread to do with DF and Alex goes exactly the same way nowadays. Same pictures of Alex, same insults. It's all rather dull
I agree with your post though. Naughty Dogs lack of presence is really felt in terms of a big blockbuster to show what the hardware can do with the right talent and budget...just a few more years I guess lol
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Anyone that thinks Dragon Age looks great but Ghost of Yōtei is disappointing is a clown that deserves to have pictures posted of them looking like a clown
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I've been trying to tell people about DF's negative spin on PlayStation content for some time now. They're totally invested in console wars and most of their fanbase is PCMR. So yes, it helps to shit on Sony.
Ghost of Tsushima ran at 1080p30 on PS4. Again, 1080p30... What they're actually doing here is not comparing Ghost of Yotei to this PS4 game, though that's what they're saying. What they're doing is comparing this to Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut on PS5 that runs at 4K60, quadrupling the resolution and doubling the framerate... and looking for massive gains from that.
It has to cheat a bit to get there and I'm sure there will be fewer caveats for this game but the primary gains come from amazing art direction and will push even further on the PS5 Pro, which they're back to talking shit about again.
These guys are grifters and what they're selling is grievance content. It's literally why they have to zoom in to show difference that you're not going to see on your tv from 10-15 feet away... They're going to milk the PS5 Pro for content, but when the console wars officially end, their numbers are going to implode.
Ghost of Tsushima ran at 1080p30 on PS4. Again, 1080p30... What they're actually doing here is not comparing Ghost of Yotei to this PS4 game, though that's what they're saying. What they're doing is comparing this to Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut on PS5 that runs at 4K60, quadrupling the resolution and doubling the framerate... and looking for massive gains from that.
It has to cheat a bit to get there and I'm sure there will be fewer caveats for this game but the primary gains come from amazing art direction and will push even further on the PS5 Pro, which they're back to talking shit about again.
These guys are grifters and what they're selling is grievance content. It's literally why they have to zoom in to show difference that you're not going to see on your tv from 10-15 feet away... They're going to milk the PS5 Pro for content, but when the console wars officially end, their numbers are going to implode.
Dragon age image quality look OK for a 1080p game with custom FSR. Look soft but not as bad compare to the likes of outlaws.
But these base consoles is cooked though. 1080p 30fps with a bit of RT reflections. Internal res quite low in 30fps mode not bode well for performance mode.
my guess for performance mode, 720P 60fps with FSR and no ray tracing? Compare to 1080p 60fps with PSSR and RTAO on the pro. The number dont look that big but it could be a drastic image quality wise.
But these base consoles is cooked though. 1080p 30fps with a bit of RT reflections. Internal res quite low in 30fps mode not bode well for performance mode.
my guess for performance mode, 720P 60fps with FSR and no ray tracing? Compare to 1080p 60fps with PSSR and RTAO on the pro. The number dont look that big but it could be a drastic image quality wise.
Bojji
Gold Member
The best thing is that many of the posters that shit on Alex and post his pictures wearing dress are the same ones defending obvious pandering to woke/alphabet mafia made by Sony.
Anyone can have opinion like that, DA might be more impressive on technical level.
To me DA looks bad and I'm not impressed with GoY so it's kinda hard to choose which game looks better overall. For sure Ghost will be a better game with better art direction.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
In fairness, Cyberpunk was the posterchild for ray tracing, even to this day, it's still the ultimate ray tracing showcase. In addition, it also launched right alongside Ampere, and the top Ampere cards have ray tracing capabilities in excess of two times of what the PS5 can do. The PS5 can do ray tracing, but even to this day, it's very limited. Spider-Man 2 only does reflections, so that's the best GOY could do, but given the relative lack of reflective surfaces compared to NYC, I'm not surprised they eschewed. Perhaps there will be Pro enhancement and we will see some RT, but the PS5 simply doesn't have the hardware to push top-tier next-gen visuals AND ray tracing.
I also think we're at a point where technology has somewhat outpaced development speed. It's becoming harder and harder to push graphics above and beyond, and even Sony studios that looked to be a cut above the rest in the past are struggling to set themselves apart from the pack of best devs in terms of technical abilities. The one stand out is Rockstar, but they have unlimited time and budget, so, yeah.
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I think Alex is tech mind person. He want to see all these new techniques implemented in a Sony new games.
RTAO, RTGI and RT reflections, but these will tank the image quality and frame rate on the base consoles. Looking at third parties that has been implemented these new techniques, not one game seem to worth it.The image quality and frame rate has gone back to almost a gent. for example, games like star wars outlaws, star war survival, wukong and many more.
I think the pro will be fine though with RTGI, RTAO and some RT reflections.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Being positive rarely sells on the interwebs. People are looking for negativity because anger is a longer lasting and more commoditizable emotion.
Look at the positive reaction to the trailer: 5 million views in 5 days. 285K likes. People are excited about this game. So excited that people see an opportunity to gather clicks being negative about it. Search Ghost of Yotei and see how many people have negative videos about a 3 minute teaser trailer that has 5 million views and positive response.
Do you know who doesn't do State of Plays or Showcases? Steam.
Can anyone tell me what's exciting coming to PC right now that isn't coming to console? This year has been jam-packed with games just like last year, but you wouldn't know it based on the discourse on the internet.
In the last couple months, we've seen Astro Bot, Spare Marine 2, Wukong, and we're 10 days away from Dragon Ball Sparking Zero and even less for Silent Hill 2. Elden Ring Erd Tree just released in late June.
I remember when almost no games of note would release for the summer and it was a complete wasteland... Gaming is rotting and it isn't the games... And gamers should push back on this as this has a real material impact on game sales which has a real material impact on game makers which has a real material impact on games... You know the ones we want to play...
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midnightAI
Member
This was my point about Horizon, if you compare the remaster against Zero Dawn it is leagues ahead, yet if you compare it to the PS5 version of Forbidden West (even if it's cross gen, which is irrelevant) then there isn't a massive difference.
GoT PS4 (and even PS5 to a degree) is nowhere near GoY if you look at what it's doing with foliage, draw distance, you can bet textures are better and models look improved also (they were really good in the first game though already), looks like improved particle effects, lighting looks improved and I'm sure there will be many more improvements when we see more footage of it.
It doesn't need ray tracing, some are obsessed with it, but the base PS5 just isn't that great at it (let's see what the Pro can do), they'd have to cut down on the foliage or draw distance which are very important to Ghost to create grand scale scenes, it had some in the first game and now they seem to have turned those up to 11 (the Mountain scene, the two riding scenes, the standing in the red leaves scene). It's in those moments people were in awe, loads of YouTubers posted the part when you come out of the trees and start riding through the grass, it was an epic scene.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Not clear yet on how they've improved their GI system. As I said in graphics thread GoT actually used real-time global illumination techniques but they were so primitive and yielded messy results even by last gen standards. The lighting (occlusion, GI) in Yotei are a generational leap over Tsushima.
Artistically? Sure. Technically? Nope.
Agree 100%. Not a fan of attacking Alex as a person and his sexuality/lifestyle affiliation.
TheRedRiders
Member
They did fart out that useless TLOU1 remake, with the exact same engine and technologies as the TLOU2 and labelled it a PS5 exclusive so I'd be cautious about ND, they're welcome to surprise me though.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
The Ubisoft Assassin creed set in Japan does look more current gen than Yotei.
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Physiognomonics
Member
I think they are right about Yotei. It does't bring anything new and is a disappointment for their first PS5 game. Compared to the first running on PS5 the only noticeable improvement is draw distance. Sure we can see the volcano from very far away and it's still very pretty, like a painting. But games on PS4, like Elden Ring, could already do that (with better artstyle). Thinking about it, even Elden Ring brought RT shadows on consoles. What technical improvemnets did they bring since Infamous SS on launch PS4?
Their engine basically stopped improving since 2013, and this is how I see it. No improvements. for me Tsushima was actually a regression compared to Infamous SS.
Their engine basically stopped improving since 2013, and this is how I see it. No improvements. for me Tsushima was actually a regression compared to Infamous SS.
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