Manwithoutfear
Member
you should go watch DF analysis of spiderman and actually watch all of this metro exodus enhanced video. you'll soon realize who is talking dumb. This is the best showing of any AAA ray tracing game to date.
[Digital Foundry] Exclusive: Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Analysis - The First Triple-A Ray Tracing Game
- Thread starter DonJorginho
- Start date
JimboJones
Member
Interesting seeing comparisons from the DLSS 1, 2 and TAA up sampling.
DLSS 2 still seems lightyears ahead, with its ability to resolve more with less.
DLSS 2 still seems lightyears ahead, with its ability to resolve more with less.
Manwithoutfear
Member
looks like it's a free upgrade to the new version as well. apparently it's a separate install. your saves will transfer but will start you at the beginning of the chapter you're on and not in the middle of a chapter if you're in one. I'm on spring now so i'll finish it then wait to finish the game until after i beat RE8! May is such a fantastic month for gaming!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Posted this in another thread, but gonna post it in here because while I mostly like Alex, he does a lot of dumb things that need to be called out.
2019 RT GI on the Left. 2021 RT FULL GI on the right.
It shows just how inaccurate and straight up POOR the RT lighting was in the original. Apparently it only had one bounce RT lighting so the sunlight didnt illuminate the rest of the room correctly.
This is funny because Alex spent that entire year raving about how realistic that lighting was giving it his graphics GOTY, and droning about it on and on for two years, all the while completely missing the fact that it was entirely inaccurate all along.
EDIT: This is a comparison i made back when the game first came out. Even back then i could see how the sunlight wasnt lighting up the train cabin like it should.
RT GI ON.
RT GI OFF.
Now we know that the bottom screen is far more realistic.
2019 RT GI on the Left. 2021 RT FULL GI on the right.
It shows just how inaccurate and straight up POOR the RT lighting was in the original. Apparently it only had one bounce RT lighting so the sunlight didnt illuminate the rest of the room correctly.
This is funny because Alex spent that entire year raving about how realistic that lighting was giving it his graphics GOTY, and droning about it on and on for two years, all the while completely missing the fact that it was entirely inaccurate all along.
EDIT: This is a comparison i made back when the game first came out. Even back then i could see how the sunlight wasnt lighting up the train cabin like it should.
RT GI ON.
RT GI OFF.
Now we know that the bottom screen is far more realistic.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Posted this in another thread, but gonna post it in here because while I mostly like Alex, he does a lot of dumb things that need to be called out.
2019 RT GI on the Left. 2021 RT FULL GI on the right.
It shows just how inaccurate and straight up POOR the RT lighting was in the original. Apparently it only had one bounce RT lighting so the sunlight didnt illuminate the rest of the room correctly.
This is funny because Alex spent that entire year raving about how realistic that lighting was giving it his graphics GOTY, and droning about it on and on for two years, all the while completely missing the fact that it was entirely inaccurate all along.
Inaccurate in comparison to what? If compared to the old nonraytraced light probe method it was still superior.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Aka one bounce.. from Alex's article:
Metro Exodus: a vision for the future of graphics technology
Impressive on consoles, but PC is a genuine game-changer
www.eurogamer.net
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Can't watch on my 4K OLED rn, so I'ma save this for later. VFX got me hyped.
Now
But how close will consoles get, I hope Series has VRS Tier 2.
Yup, everything RT will change everything.
But how close will consoles get, I hope Series has VRS Tier 2.
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This having unlimited bounces in real-time is mind blowing for a guy like me hat did offline rendering .. primarily with VRAY, I am using Arnold now.Posted this in another thread, but gonna post it in here because while I mostly like Alex, he does a lot of dumb things that need to be called out.
2019 RT GI on the Left. 2021 RT FULL GI on the right.
It shows just how inaccurate and straight up POOR the RT lighting was in the original. Apparently it only had one bounce RT lighting so the sunlight didnt illuminate the rest of the room correctly.
This is funny because Alex spent that entire year raving about how realistic that lighting was giving it his graphics GOTY, and droning about it on and on for two years, all the while completely missing the fact that it was entirely inaccurate all along.
EDIT: This is a comparison i made back when the game first came out. Even back then i could see how the sunlight wasnt lighting up the train cabin like it should.
RT GI ON.
RT GI OFF.
Now we know that the bottom screen is far more realistic.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Great looking last gen title.
Mister Wolf
Member
I would like to see RTGI vs Unreal 5's Hybrid Voxel GI. How much the Hybrid Voxel actually saves on performance and a quality comparison.
CuteFaceJay
Member
This looks real nice, How heavy is this game on the CPU? or is it all GPU bound?
Md Ray
Member
Man, I don't know... Is this nothing?
The one on the left (RTGI Off) looks like a PS3 game.
Not specifically for RTX cards... It's revamped for AMD RT GPUs as well and even PS5/Xbox Series X | S are getting this version.
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Arun1910
Member
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Big difference! Can't wait to try this out, as I was Impressed at the original games lighting. Now it looks like poop compared to the remaster!Man, I don't know... Is this nothing?
The one on the left (RTGI Off) looks like a PS3 game.
Not specifically for RTX cards... It's revamped for AMD RT GPUs as well and even PS5/Xbox Series X | S are getting this version.
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Lethal01
Banned
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Md Ray
Member
When targeting 60fps, the game can utilize up to 50% of 3700X CPU's 16 threads and generally hovers around 30-35% in CPU-heavy sections. More often than not it's GPU-bound.
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LostDonkey
Member
I hope my series X can pull some of this shit off cos I can't afford to upgrade my rig lol
VFXVeteran
Banned
It's not really unlimited bounces.. That would be high inefficient as there is a threshold where the more light bounces you track, the less it contributes to the final render. On top of running out of memory and getting a crash. I think they call it "infinite" because it probably does dynamic bounces based on a contrast threshold from neighboring pixel values. They probably aren't pushing more than a couple of bounces.
Btw, when I last worked at a film company, I wrote our entire shader pipeline using Arnold. Arnold is bad-ass.
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rofif
Banned
It was too dark with 2019 RT... and now it's too bright. Even night scene with moon looks washed out.
The HDR in current pc version is broken too with raised black levels. Looks better in SDR on oled. The tech looks promising for an update but it's too damn washed out.
But if they fixed HDR, it might all look great and not washed out after all with new RT.... and then I will have to listen to Anna talk for 15 hours straight. Never fucking shutting up
The HDR in current pc version is broken too with raised black levels. Looks better in SDR on oled. The tech looks promising for an update but it's too damn washed out.
But if they fixed HDR, it might all look great and not washed out after all with new RT.... and then I will have to listen to Anna talk for 15 hours straight. Never fucking shutting up
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terrible potshot you're taking here. it was the best at the time.Posted this in another thread, but gonna post it in here because while I mostly like Alex, he does a lot of dumb things that need to be called out.
2019 RT GI on the Left. 2021 RT FULL GI on the right.
It shows just how inaccurate and straight up POOR the RT lighting was in the original. Apparently it only had one bounce RT lighting so the sunlight didnt illuminate the rest of the room correctly.
This is funny because Alex spent that entire year raving about how realistic that lighting was giving it his graphics GOTY, and droning about it on and on for two years, all the while completely missing the fact that it was entirely inaccurate all along.
EDIT: This is a comparison i made back when the game first came out. Even back then i could see how the sunlight wasnt lighting up the train cabin like it should.
RT GI ON.
RT GI OFF.
Now we know that the bottom screen is far more realistic.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Brightness is OK as long as there is self-shadowing of models.
Brightness for all other games out now is NOT ok because they don't have self-shadowing. Take a look at RE8 and the items on the tables. They implement RT GI, but fail to go further with casting self-shadows with AO. The lighting is wrong and I'm so sick of seeing this misstep.
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rofif
Banned
this is bullshit. "artist deletes al lights and enabled RT toggle"
How ould any toggle now that this model is a light buld? this model is sun? this model is a neon light? this model is fire?
These objects still need to be set. What light, how much light, what color, how wide it should spread. RT checkbox can't know properties without any other info
edit: Don't get me wrong - this is the best way possible to do realistic light model. It's amazing. But I would not oversell it as "enable rt" and your whole lighting is done. You need to set properties to let RT engine know what is what
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Md Ray
Member
That would mean even more work.
They're saving that for their next game which will be built around PC/XSX/PS5 hardware.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I watched the bias to the PC analysis of ME PC and SM MM.
Spider-Man MM does circles around it.
"For the new Metro, the standard rasterised versions of each map - including all individually, artist-placed lights - are gone. The tricks, fake light sources and other legacy elements are replaced with a proper, real-time RT solution that 'just works'."
Inside Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition: the first triple-A ray tracing game
DF tests the first major game release that demands an RT-capable graphics card
www.eurogamer.net
It seems that every light source, even the light produced by sights on guns, produces indirect illumination, and casts shadows from that indirect lighting.
But they are accumulated temporally, right? So surely the work per frame would be the same? According to Alex the results are "cached" for future frames, so I presume that their technology doesn't need to store the individual results of all of the past bounces; just the total contribution to the current frame.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Any examples of half assed RT/res examples to compare with this prime example of being built up from the ground up?
ethomaz
Banned
Yes for GI.
The game is still rasterized.
They are not pure or fully (I don't remember the word the guy said) ray-tracing in that game.
It is different from Minecraft RTX that is a example of full ray-tracked game... in that case it is not using rasterization indeed.
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Schmick
Member
It's as annoying as the conversation I have with my wife discussing the differences between HD and 4K.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
You didn't read what you quoted?
Let me help you.
SM MM as a whole is a better looking and more current gen looking game.
If people walked into a Bestbuy and saw both running... we know what they would be more impressed with.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Yes, that is absolutely true.
Some lights would still be there but they don't have to worry about adding additional fill lights just to mimic GI bounce. Alex shows that underneath the roof in that test scene.
Yes you need to set properties for the main lights.. but you are cutting down a significant amount that are just there for filling the environment with enough light. You can literally go from 10 to 2 lights using RT GI. Absolutely.
VFXVeteran
Banned
So this thread now has become a "us vs. them" thread again with art overcoming technical accuracy? We get it.. PS games don't need new tech because their games will always look better no matter what..
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II_JumPeR_I
Member
DF is general haa become slow and boring.
They still havent covered outriders etc
Md Ray
Member
Path tracing, you mean?
VFXVeteran
Banned
Yes, they need this cache. But it still isn't "infinite" in the sense that they can bounce 100 rays from the first direct ray leaving the light source with several hundred more direct rays still needing to be cast.
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ethomaz
Banned
Path-tracing is just one of Ray-tracing algorithms.
This is the original quote I replied.
It is still a rasterized game with RT.
They didn't changed to full ray-tracing.
It uses RT for GI.
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Low Moral Fibre
Member
Yeah okay , there is a cut-off , still mind blowing that it can now be done in real-time . Yeah Arnold is pretty good!
Tqaulity
Member
Sorry but the is is a peeve of mine. I get that the graphics are greatly enhanced and utilize some next gen features. But are we going to just ignore the fact that this is still the same core game with the same limited assets as the Metro Exodus that shipped for last gen consoles back in 2019? Graphics are only part of the story for any game and simply updating the graphics do not make it "next gen". Doesn't take long to see that the core design is still limited by lack of CPU power and I/O bandwidth. An initial look will still show that there are still some low polygon models, crude animations, simplistic AI, muddy textures, and repetitive level designs and gameplay scenarios. This is still a game made to run on an Xbox One at its core, even though it was (and still is) a great game that really did push the technical envelope given those limitations.
If you've played and beat Metro Exodus already, then there is nothing to see here after maybe the first 30 mins of noticing the graphical improvements and then realizing that the game is the same playing game you remember. If you haven't played Metro Exodus (like myself who was waiting for the next gen upgrades) then this is a great time to jump in!
But some graphical updates to an older game does NOT make it next gen (same applies to Demon's Souls BTW). What we need are new design and gameplay paradigms that will be enabled mostly by the Zen2 CPUs and I/O acceleration (which unfortunately are still not being leveraged in anything released to date). In fact I would definitely argue that Returnal is the first real "next gen" game to date when you look at the sum of its parts and how it leverages everything next gen has to offer.
I think by infinite they mean that if you leave a scene running for an infinite amount of time, you will get the (mathematical) contribution of an infinite amount of bounces. (Though, I guess at a certain point it stops making an actual contribution to the image).
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
The reactions on your post alone, say otherwise. This game definitely takes the cake in visuals. Especially lighting. You can't really be comparing the simplest most basic form of RT against this... Night and day difference.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Until somebody can change that narrative.. that is the narrative.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Night and day difference is correct.
Metro Exodus looks like a last gen game with a pretty coat of paint.
Spider-Man MM looks like a current gen game.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You add just as much fuel to the fire bro. Especially with your constant personal pain anytime anything Sony is ever mentioned in a positive light graphically or comparatively, hence your passive aggressive style posts such as this.
I guess the mask is off again, eh? Didn't take long at all.
Its all about the bitrates for me when talking digital video but yeah, i am a sucker for UHD blu-rays.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Shadowhacker is banned all over for his PC pompous antics.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm just tired of the selective "nitpickiness" of said "experts" or professionals depending on their favorite medium or not.
Average gamer peasants will argue and do what they do, but when these "professionals" come in holier than thou and pretend they don't suffer from the same biases as us common folk, that really gets old. It's the same arguments ad nauseum. Hubris laden.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
According to the masses here on these boards (especially the Sony folk) anyone can declare "next-gen" and it be OK. There was even a thread about it that many people ignored.
Let's Establish What Constitutes "Next Gen" for PS5/Xbox Series Generation
60 fps is the most overrated shit in gaming history. Yeah motion clarity and input responsiveness are so overrated; can't wait for all those beautiful, but slow motion and laggy as fuck fighting games.
Completely surprised that that thread isn't at least 10 pages long by now. I wonder why that is.
I'm not judging the game as a whole to be considered next-gen. I go by what can the game do now that isn't possible from last gen hardware. RT, despite it not being popular, is the big elephant in the room this generation despite people liking the SSD.
The game's main core rendering pipeline (which is every other game as well) was totally revamped - the lighting. It is the most expensive aspect of any game today.
That's your opinion and that's OK. I have mine. You are free to think that R&C/Returnal are the only next-gen games all you want but they don't have the RT that's done in this game. So to me, they aren't next-gen.
You'll think every game on PS is next gen that's new and is an exclusive. The fact is, that's just your opinion.