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[adamsapple]

I noticed a dip to 59 FPS at 25:10 min. on XSX, are there others?

25 : 04

 

[MasterCornholio]

24:43, 25:04, 25:12, 25:19. 25:36.

Yes.

 

[SlimySnake]

Its not about a raw resolution anymore, we need to look at t running and see how the reconstruction is working.

It looks great in motion.

Trust me. Low resolution with or without reconstruction is going to make enemy players hard to spot. Especially in a big open world shooter like this where enemies are going to be far off in the distance most of the time.

This was actually a small controversy when BF1 came out on the PS4 Pro at a higher resolution.

 

[MasterCornholio]

25 : 04

He was asking about XSX to be honest. I know that both dip every once in a while. Not a big deal IMO.

 

[clampzyn]

Nothing can't change and they needed to hit a price point at certain loss margin... What about accepting it is what it is? Both consoles go below 900p natively and that's not because of the Series S holding them back, it's them being weak anyway regardless of the Series S

Series X / Ps5 resolution in worst case scenario can dip to that resolution but according to epic the average resolution is 59 %and 55% of 4k with TSR to hit 4k image, man even a decent PC would struggle running nanite+lumen at native 4k LOL, most vids i see are just running 1440p with TSR because they know 4k is too much specially with nanite+lumen enabled from like a rtx 3070-3080 gpu and even with that gpu it overs around 50-70fps only

 

[vaibhavpisal]

What you were expecting 50%?

Nope, I was expecting 1-2% difference.

But it's almost twice of that.

Competitive players might wanna hop onto the Series S version.

Lower vegetation means you can see the enemies better from afar.

This makes a lot of sense.

I suspect most complaints for Horizon Forbidden West are cause it has tall foliage/ grass. Most machines are shrouded in foliage so people can't play properly.

 

[Black_Stride]

I take it since people are so concerned for Series S players the Series X is performing better than the PS5?

 

[M1chl]

25 : 04

Truly "got em" material right here

 

[SlimySnake]

I can assure you that people who buy the Series S don't give a fuck about this stuff, are not the target audience for video breakdowns like what DF does.

Nah, people who go out of their way to buy next gen consoles upgrading from last gen consoles are doing so for a reason. They might not watch DF but they bought a next gen console for next gen features.

Regardless, all im saying is that a 6 tflops GPU with higher clocks and a bigger ram pool wouldve made for a better console. No idea why thats a controversial statement to make.

 

[FireFly]

They say XSS performs OK but I really disagree here.

- XSX outputs usually 3.5x more pixels than XSS
- But XSS completely lacks ray traced reflexions (basically has half-lumen), has less vegetation, has less shadows and has even lower quality GI.

It's worse than the difference seen in the Matrix demo where the only difference was resolution (often 4x more on XSX). Again it shows XSS hardware is a really badly designed hardware and performs really bad in UE5 as it's only 3 times less powerfull than XSX but performs way below that gap.

Usually you don't see that kind of performance degradation will less powerful hardware using the same tech. It's really odd how poorly that hardware performs in that compute heavy engine.

In the PC space you need to decrease the resolution by 4X to increase performance by 3X. So some cutbacks are expected.

 

[Lysandros]

It's extremely close between Series X and PS5. Great performance IMO.

Yeah it seems so, about 7% higher average resolution on XSX with a few dips in framerate, while PS5 being more stable (seemed locked at 60 FPS) as per the video they provided.

 

[adamsapple]

Truly "got em" material right here

Not as I would hope.

It's conveniently ignored:

Yeah it seems so, about 7% higher average resolution on XSX with a few dips in framerate, whereas PS5 being more stable (seemed locked at 60 FPS) as per the video they provided.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is Lumen/Nanite dynamically on/off or something?
Edit: It's light maps?

One is not like the others.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Nah, people who go out of their way to buy next gen consoles upgrading from last gen consoles are doing so for a reason. They might not watch DF but they bought a next gen console for next gen features.

Regardless, all im saying is that a 6 tflops GPU with higher clocks and a bigger ram pool wouldve made for a better console. No idea why thats a controversial statement to make.

I don't think what you said is controversial at all. And of course, yes, it would have been nicer to see the Series S a bit stronger but I suspect if the changes were made you are suggesting, people would still be asking for more power --- and despite all that, the market for the Series S doesn't consist of people that care to the degree that you or I do about this stuff. This an enthusiast forum, we are turbo nerds that watch breakdown videos and split hairs over mergers and acquisitions we don't truly understand. Regular people don't give a shit if the Series S is 540p or 1080p, because if they did, they wouldn't have purchased a Series S.

 

[M1chl]

Series S looking worse, is a good thing, by the way. It just shows that MS gives zero fucks about it looking same, people who are buying it, does not care about picture quality as much as your regular gaffer.

It's just a good thing that it has all the features, "normal" consoles have, thus there is no need to cut corners on big machines.

 

[SlimySnake]

Series S looking worse, is a good thing, by the way. It just shows that MS gives zero fucks about it looking same, people who are buying it, does not care about picture quality as much as your regular gaffer.

It's just a good thing that it has all the features, "normal" consoles have, thus there is no need to cut corners on big machines.

Yeah one good thing about series s targeting 540p in these games is that it allays any fears that it will hold back next gen.

I don't think what you said is controversial at all. And of course, yes, it would have been nicer to see the Series S a bit stronger but I suspect if the changes were made you are suggesting, people would still be asking for more power --- and despite all that, the market for the Series S doesn't consist of people that care to the degree that you or I do about this stuff. This an enthusiast forum, we are turbo nerds that watch breakdown videos and split hairs over mergers and acquisitions we don't truly understand. Regular people don't give a shit if the Series S is 540p or 1080p, because if they did, they wouldn't have purchased a Series S.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. they might not see the difference between 540p but RT reflections? Some games are missing RT modes period. Some are missing 60 fps modes. Can these casuals tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps? Again maybe, maybe not. People buy next gen consoles with a certain expectation. We dont know exactly what they are expecting but its safe to assume they are expecting next gen features.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Series S looking worse, is a good thing, by the way. It just shows that MS gives zero fucks about it looking same, people who are buying it, does not care about picture quality as much as your regular gaffer.

It's just a good thing that it has all the features, "normal" consoles have, thus there is no need to cut corners on big machines.

It's weird how people shit on the Series S like it's a personal affront to them, but its more powerful a system than the most popular PC configs on Steam Hardware surveys. Demonstrating to me at least that a lot of people just want to play videogames.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Perhaps. Perhaps not. they might not see the difference between 540p but RT reflections? Some games are missing RT modes period. Some are missing 60 fps modes. Can these casuals tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps? Again maybe, maybe not. People buy next gen consoles with a certain expectation. We dont know exactly what they are expecting but its safe to assume they are expecting next gen features.

It's not that they can't tell the difference its that they do not care. If they cared, they would have purchased a PS5 or Series X. Some people just want to play videogames the cheapest possible way, and $250 for a Series S + $15/mo for Game Pass is exactly that.

 

[M1chl]

Yeah one good thing about series s targeting 540p in these games is that it allays any fears that it will hold back next gen.


Perhaps. Perhaps not. they might not see the difference between 540p but RT reflections? Some games are missing RT modes period. Some are missing 60 fps modes. Can these casuals tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps? Again maybe, maybe not. People buy next gen consoles with a certain expectation. We dont know exactly what they are expecting but its safe to assume they are expecting next gen features.

Well it targets 1080p, targeting 540p is like saying that big consoles targeting 860p or something like that. I don't there is need for such narrative.

It's weird how people shit on the Series S like it's a personal affront to them, but its more powerful a system than the most popular PC configs on Steam Hardware surveys. Demonstrating to me at least that a lot of people just want to play videogames.

People definitely have obsessive thoughts about Series S, wonder why its that popular.

 

[JackMcGunns]

What you were expecting 50%?

It's not a 4% difference in performance, it's 4% more pixles of a 4K imange which represents over 8 million pixels.

Series X is running 300,672 more pixels than the PS5 on average.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

woof at those cutbacks on Series S. BUT i think the console is doing exactly what its designed to do. Essentially run a current gen engine w/ needed cutbacks. update looks pretty nice IMO.

No it's not, it was supposed to play next gen games at 1080p (even 1440p if you look at the original box\marketing material). They cut back much lower than 1080p, shadows, reflections, etc. AND once you upgrade storage the console is about as expensive as the Series X.

Let's not spread delusions about what the Series S is, it does not fulfill any of its promises.

 

[clampzyn]

Well it targets 1080p, targeting 540p is like saying that big consoles targeting 860p or something like that. I don't there is need for such narrative.

Agree, its just the lowest bound epic allowed to resolution could go on all consoles. And people already assuming it runs on those lowest bound 99% of the time. And the game has an upscaling which would nearly look as good as 1080p on S and 4k on Ps5/Series X.

 

[sinnergy]

No it's not, it was supposed to play next gen games at 1080p (even 1440p if you look at the original box\marketing material). They cut back much lower than 1080p, shadows, reflections, etc. AND once you upgrade storage the console is about as expensive as the Series X.

Let's not spread delusions about what the Series S is, it does not fulfill any of its promises.

Dude , it’s a cheap gaming box .. none here cares on a enthousiast forum.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well it targets 1080p, targeting 540p is like saying that big consoles targeting 860p or something like that. I don't there is need for such narrative.


People definitely have obsessive thoughts about Series S, wonder why its that popular.

Target is the wrong word. I meant to say settling for 540p as the lower bound. We've seen this in other RT games like Matrix and Metro.

 

[clampzyn]

Let's not spread delusions about what the Series S is, it does not fulfill any of its promises.

Well I didn't see any advertisement that Series S was meant to run at 1080p60 + RT, I only see its capable of RT from Xbox page.

 

[bbeach123]

Look better but unless they force it on most people will turn this shit off .

Make dark place darker and bright place brighter ? No thanks in any mulplayer game .

 

[Mr Moose]

It's weird how people shit on the Series S like it's a personal affront to them, but its more powerful a system than the most popular PC configs on Steam Hardware surveys. Demonstrating to me at least that a lot of people just want to play videogames.

Isn't that the 3060?

It's not a 4% difference in performance, it's 4% more pixles of a 4K imange which represents over 8 million pixels.

Series X is running 300,672 more pixels than the PS5 on average.

Care to share your math with the rest of us?

 

[Wooxsvan]

No it's not, it was supposed to play next gen games at 1080p (even 1440p if you look at the original box\marketing material). They cut back much lower than 1080p, shadows, reflections, etc. AND once you upgrade storage the console is about as expensive as the Series X.

Let's not spread delusions about what the Series S is, it does not fulfill any of its promises.

i said its doing exactly what its designed to do not what its marketing promise was. its turd hardware compared to ps5, series x.

 

[adamsapple]

Target is the wrong word. I meant to say settling for 540p as the lower bound. We've seen this in other RT games like Matrix and Metro.

But that's the whole point of things like TSR, FSR and DLSS. Reconstructing from a lower resolution to a convincingly higher one.

The IQ looks good, DF didn't make any qualms about softness or blurriness in the video.

This is not the same case as Battlefield on PS4 Pro with its shitty post AA.

 

[M1chl]

Target is the wrong word. I meant to say settling for 540p as the lower bound. We've seen this in other RT games like Matrix and Metro.

Sure an lower bound for big consoles is also below 1080p, thankfully the TSR helps a lot.

After all DLSS also renders in low resolution. And how good that looks.

And yes Series S sucks, but I do feel relieved after this. I played this shit (horrible UI, one of the worst) and it actually looks really good on XSX. So yeah...

 

[clampzyn]

Isn't that the 3060?

Common pc builds uses a 2.3-2.7ghz cpu + 1650 gtx according to steam hardware

 

[Mr Moose]

Common pc builds uses a 2.3-2.7ghz cpu + 1650 gtx according to steam hardware

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gtx-1650-overtakes-gtx-1060-as-most-popular-gpu-on-steam.1647041/#post-267077409

They split the 3060 laptops for some reason.

 

[M1chl]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gtx-1650-overtakes-gtx-1060-as-most-popular-gpu-on-steam.1647041/#post-267077409

They split the 3060 laptops for some reason.

this picture doing rounds in my head

 

[Thief1987]

540p for a "nextgen" console is a borderline "impossible port at 360p" territory, no wonder that it looks great for shill digital foundry

 

[Mr Moose]

540p for a "nextgen" console is a borderline "impossible port at 360p" territory, no wonder that it looks great for shill digital foundry

It's mostly near 720p range, but the TSR is pretty good.

 

[clampzyn]

They split the 3060 laptops for some reason.

Yea but 1650/1050/1060 laptops are popular too but its not included in that thread? correct me if im wrong

 

[JackMcGunns]

Care to share your math with the rest of us?

Math is math and I was being conservating with averages, but since we're getting technical, the number is actually slightly higher since I wasn't counting every pixel, just ~8 million.

So let's do the math together, shall we?

-A 4K image is 3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels
-PS5 is running 55% of a 4K imange. So 55% of 8,294,400 = 4,561,920 pixels
-Series X is running 59% of a 4K image. So 59% of 8,294,400 = 4,893,696 pixels

4,893,696 - 4,561,920 = 331,776.

Satisfied?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nope, I was expecting 1-2% difference.

But it's almost twice of that.

Maybe some viagra would help with that.

 

[Mr Moose]

Math is math and I was being conservating with averages, but since we're getting technical, the number is actually slightly higher since I wasn't counting every pixel, just ~8 million.

So let's do the math together, shall we?

-A 4K image is 3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels
-PS5 is running 55% of a 4K imange. So 55% of 8,294,400 = 4,561,920 pixels
-Series X is running 59% of a 4K image. So 59% of 8,294,400 = 4,893,696 pixels

4,893,696 - 4,561,920 = 331,776.

Satisfied?

Yes. Your math was wrong so I was wondering how you reached it.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Regular people don't give a shit if the Series S is 540p or 1080p, because if they did, they wouldn't have purchased a Series S.

Yes, this is why everybody has kept their DVD to watch movies.

Even my kids refuse to watch DVD quality content these days... 540p is pretty close to 480p.

 

[adamsapple]

540p for a "nextgen" console is a borderline "impossible port at 360p" territory, no wonder that it looks great for shill digital foundry

Wait till you find out how low native resolutions on PC games can do with DLSS wrt to the IQ on screen. It'll blow your mind.

 

[Gaiff]

Console warriors fighting over a 4% difference in pixel count.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Yes, this is why everybody has kept their DVD to watch movies.

Even my kids refuse to watch DVD quality content these days... 540p is pretty close to 480p.

There isn't anything you can say to me that is going to make what I said not true. So many people just dont give a fuck, such is life.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Isn't that the 3060?

GTX 1650 isn't the most popular anymore?

 

[Mr Moose]

GTX 1650 isn't the most popular anymore?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gtx-1650-overtakes-gtx-1060-as-most-popular-gpu-on-steam.1647041/

They apparently included 1650 laptops with their numbers but split them for the 3060.

 

[clampzyn]

They apparently included 1650 laptops with their numbers but split them for the 3060.

How do we know if 1650 laptop gpus are included? im assuming they should have a tag like 3060 laptop gpu

 

[JackMcGunns]

Yes. Your math was wrong so I was wondering how you reached it.

What!? I literally ran the math conservatively to around 8 milions pixels knowing that it's more, it wasn't that serious to go precisely up to 8,294,400. But since you asked, I delivered lol.

Be honest, if you ran the math, you would've: A. Said I was wrong instead of asking how I got there, B. Given us the real figures. I'm sure you were just expecting a smaller number

 

[Mr Moose]

What!? be honest, I'm sure you were just expecting a smaller number

No, I checked before I posted.

How do we know if 1650 laptop gpus are included? im assuming they should have a tag like 3060 laptop gpu

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gtx-1650-overtakes-gtx-1060-as-most-popular-gpu-on-steam.1647041/#post-267078551

 

[GustavoLT]

unreal engine should be banned on PC!

 

[DenchDeckard]

We have seen a 4x gap all gen. A lot of native 4k games on the XSX are just 1080p on the XSS while also downgrading settings. They dont even have identical settings. Its way more than a 4x gap.

The problem is not just the lack of RAM, but also the fact that the XSS GPU runs at a very low clock of 1.45 GHz. RDNA 2.0 cards are supposed to be running above 2.0 GHz to achieve their performance gains. Both the XSS and XSX are being held back by their conservative clocks where as PS5 is pushing above its weight thanks to its higher clocks.

A 6 tflops XSS with higher clocks and a decent ram pool wouldve been the 1440p machine they advertised. Now we have a situation where the XSS is by far the best selling of the two Xbox consoles and a lot of people are going to have to settle for 540p, lack of proper ray tracing and other next gen features.

But when you see the thing is smaller than my daughters shoe box you get why it's running at 1.45ghz etc.
i love chucking mine in a bag etc.

I took it to a hotel yesterday. So good.

540p for a "nextgen" console is a borderline "impossible port at 360p" territory, no wonder that it looks great for shill digital foundry

Yeah but then the big boys are at 864p.....fucking pathetic these consoles right?

Oh, wait that's just the lowest bounds....