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[YCoCg]

Yeah, I wonder why..

Oh come on, Eurovision is always camp AF you can't blame that.

Yeah, take that straight men!

What do you mean views are down? Tell them it's cause of the.... Sun! The big yellow thing us brits see from time to time in the sky!

I get the feeling this will always be brought up now even though no one who works on the show said this, instead it's just some opinion piece from a loon who probably isn't even a fan as the show has ALWAYS been "woke" in some way but suddenly NOW it's an issue for BOTH SIDES when a black man is playing The Doctor.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Oh come on, Eurovision is always camp AF you can't blame that.

I know, I love it every year

The wife didn't though, she was disgusted. I didn't think anything phased her, till Saturday..

I get the feeling this will always be brought up now even though no one who works on the show said this, instead it's just some opinion piece from a loon who probably isn't even a fan as the show has ALWAYS been "woke" in some way but suddenly NOW it's an issue for BOTH SIDES when a black man is playing The Doctor.

I think the whole 'agenda' shite is turning people off, it's everywhere, people are just getting fed up

You stick idris elba in there with better writing, you'd have gold.

 

[DeafTourette]

I quite enjoyed the episodes I've seen with the 14th Doctor. Actually, I've enjoyed ALL the Doctor Who episodes since it came back!

 

[Dr. Claus]

Oh come on, Eurovision is always camp AF you can't blame that.


I get the feeling this will always be brought up now even though no one who works on the show said this, instead it's just some opinion piece from a loon who probably isn't even a fan as the show has ALWAYS been "woke" in some way but suddenly NOW it's an issue for BOTH SIDES when a black man is playing The Doctor.

No one gives a shit about a black doctor or a female doctor. People just want good writing that doesn’t hit you over the head with “THE MESSAGE” in lieu of a well written sci Fi narrative.

The people who tend to claim there is no message or try to make this about race/sex tend to be the ones who push said message the hardest. Gas lighting and strawman arguments at its most basic.

And this new series is somehow more insulting and shit than the last run. That takes skill to be this shit at a job.

 

[YCoCg]

No one gives a shit about a black doctor or a female doctor. People just want good writing that doesn’t hit you over the head with “THE MESSAGE” in lieu of a well written sci Fi narrative.

The people who tend to claim there is no message or try to make this about race/sex tend to be the ones who push said message the hardest. Gas lighting and strawman arguments at its most basic.

And this new series is somehow more insulting and shit than the last run. That takes skill to be this shit at a job.

Exactly, it all boils down to culture wars bs, on both sides, you state this is more insulting now where as outside of the musical stuff I'm just seeing the silly era of Doctor Who again which RTD had a lot to do with, remember the farting aliens? The cute fat blobs? The azorblaroff? For all the good stuff of the previous eras we always had weird shit too. That's why I liked the Moffats era the best, the balance leaned into more serious but was still chaotic. That's why I'm looking forward to the next episode as it's one of his.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

It seems like RTD has a specific audience he's targeting with this run and I don't think my wife and I are a part of that audience. I think we're done.

If the show is going to revolve around a Doctor who's afraid of everything, presses magic buttons to beat bad guys, awkwardly laughs off his family's death, and breaks out into terrible dance numbers, then I can't say I feel like I'll be missing much.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I'm a little baffled by why people say America is even more woke than Europe yet I can't think of anything as woke as the new Doctor Who on the United States series.

Of course don't get me wrong. Pretty much everything is being destroyed nowadays by the blue haired crowd.

I was also going to say that I'm glad I never cared for Doctor Who to begin with but then again other franchises I used to love have been destroyed like Star Wars and sadly Warhammer 40,000 is going that way too, the latter of which is from the UK.

 

[YCoCg]

I was also going to say that I'm glad I never cared for Doctor Who to begin with

Doctor Who has always been "woke", it's also been camp, but the campness has been turned to 10 for these two episodes.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Doctor Who has always been "woke", it's also been camp, but the campness has been turned to 10 for these two episodes.

No, it hasn’t. It used to be progressive. That is not nor ever has been the same as woke, despite you and your ideological sides best efforts.

You are proving my point that I made earlier perfectly though.

 

[YCoCg]

No, it hasn’t. It used to be progressive. That is not nor ever has been the same as woke, despite you and your ideological sides best efforts.

You are proving my point that I made earlier perfectly though.

Woah woah woah, am I woke now? I know the term gets thrown around a lot but how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[RaptorGTA]

Loved Dr Who for a long while. But like most people, peter capaldi was when i stopped. Tried with jodie whittaker but couldn't. The revisioning of the Doctors origins was laughable.

I'm at a point where I just laugh and enjoy watching it all burn down.

 

[DeafTourette]

There's some who hate the Doctor regenerated as a woman and now a black man. There's always going to be people like that (for the foreseeable future, not forever)... Like there were people who complained when Ben Sisko was the boss/Captain of DS9 or Janeway was Capt of Voyager.

Saying no one cared is not keeping with reality.

I can't be cynical as I have a young heart and all these shows give me such nostalgia!

And can we dispense of the term "woke"? It was co-opted and now means nothing. Just say you don't like the direction it's going. I stopped watching Blue Bloods and the Law & Order spinoffs for its simplistic take on cops ... Bordering on worshipping them.

 

[Dr. Claus]

There's some who hate the Doctor regenerated as a woman and now a black man. There's always going to be people like that (for the foreseeable future, not forever)... Like there were people who complained when Ben Sisko was the boss/Captain of DS9 or Janeway was Capt of Voyager.

Saying no one cared is not keeping with reality.

I can't be cynical as I have a young heart and all these shows give me such nostalgia!

And can we dispense of the term "woke"? It was co-opted and now means nothing. Just say you don't like the direction it's going. I stopped watching Blue Bloods and the Law & Order spinoffs for its simplistic take on cops ... Bordering on worshipping them.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[T-0800]

The last good Dr was Tom Baker. I've never liked anything after that.

 

[FunkMiller]

Doctor Who isn’t terrible now because of ‘woke’.

It’s terrible now because the standard of writing has fallen into the fucking toilet.

The peak was Season 5. It’s been a downhill slide since then, and since 2017 the slide has been at nearly vertical.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Doctor Who isn’t terrible now because of ‘woke’.

It’s terrible now because the standard of writing has fallen into the fucking toilet.

That is the same thing.

 

[FunkMiller]

That is the same thing.

No it isn't.

It's perfectly possible to write progressive, tolerant and inclusive characters and stories well. I invite anyone who believes otherwise to watch Deep Space Nine.

There's nothing wrong with 'woke' ...if by woke you mean including diversity in your fiction in a manner that's believable and strongly written.

There's everything wrong with 'woke' ...if by woke you mean introducing diversity with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and changing decades of lore to suit your personal political agendas.

 

[Dr. Claus]

No it isn't.

It's perfectly possible to write progressive, tolerant and inclusive characters and stories well. I invite anyone who believes otherwise to watch Deep Space Nine.

There's nothing wrong with 'woke' ...if by woke you mean including diversity in your fiction in a manner that's believable and strongly written.

There's everything wrong with 'woke' ...if by woke you mean introducing diversity with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and changing decades of lore to suit your personal political agendas.

“Woke” != Progressive.

“Woke” is as you said at the end. Slacktivists with the goal of smashing the writers world view into your skull in a black and white fashion with zero nuance or care.

Star Trek TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9 , Doctor who up until Capaldis last season - progressive shows that could tell good morals and introduce morally gray characters with a focus on quality story first and foremost.

 

[Krathoon]

I hope the show will not get canceled. The Devil's Chord episode was pretty good.

As long as they don't go flaming gay with it, they will be fine.

 

[daffyduck]

Doctor Who has always been "woke", it's also been camp, but the campness has been turned to 10 for these two episodes.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

There's some who hate the Doctor regenerated as a woman and now a black man.

It's funny that quite a few people keep saying this while blatantly ignoring the fact that it's never been that, at all...

It seems to be on purpose now, or people are wilfully not listening or reading words correctly

Maybe both

 

[YCoCg]

Early reviews for the next episode state it's the best written episode in years, MOFFAT STRIKES AGAIN!

 

[nush]

And can we dispense of the term "woke"?

People know exactly what they see, it's a quantifiable measurable thing. It's a cancer to IP that is or sadly was beloved. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

 

[Darkmakaimura]

“Woke” != Progressive.

“Woke” is as you said at the end. Slacktivists with the goal of smashing the writers world view into your skull in a black and white fashion with zero nuance or care.

Star Trek TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9 , Doctor who up until Capaldis last season - progressive shows that could tell good morals and introduce morally gray characters with a focus on quality story first and foremost.

Part of what made Deep Space Nine special was that it was not only diverse as far as gender or race, but also ideologically and just psychologically diverse. It was true diversity and not the kind of one-sidedness we have today.

 

[jason10mm]

Part of what made Deep Space Nine special was that it was not only diverse as far as gender or race, but also ideologically and just psychologically diverse. It was true diversity and not the kind of one-sidedness we have today.

This can not be emphasized enough. The key to a progressive story is to include differing opinions/views, in a HONEST WAY (i.e. not have the only non-rabid feminist viewpoint be a "ya'lls wimmin belong in the kitchen" redneck in a wife beater who exists only to be beaten up by a 95 pound girl boss character) that then shows a positive outcome for the progressive stance but without totally alienating the differing viewpoint. And you gotta ration that stuff out, if it's nothing but clickbait trendy nonsense then it turns off the base, who by definition are primarily conservative in this respect (otherwise it wouldn't be 'progressive').

 

[Krathoon]

Man, the Critical Drinker guys did not like it. I was kind of fine with the drag queen god. It was something different and played into the weirdness of gods.

 

[YCoCg]

Fucking A! Can we just get Moffat episodes every few years? That was easily the best one yet.

 

[FunkMiller]

Man, the Critical Drinker guys did not like it. I was kind of fine with the drag queen god. It was something different and played into the weirdness of gods.

Drinker was once a pretty decent reviewer and critic, but he's long since given that up in favour of the high engagement he gets from the clickbait outrage stuff. Same goes for Mauler. Nerdrotic manages to keep his particularly nasty opinions to himself most of the time, but they sneak out every once in a while when he's not being careful. The outpost guy is well recognised as a nasty piece of shit.

Doctor Who may well be absolute garbage these days (which it definitely is), but these guys will push the anti-woke messaging as hard as possible, over actually critiquing the show's content, because that's what gets the subscribers and money.

 

[jason10mm]

So I started my kid on the eccleston run (apparently streams on max but I just bought it off amazon) and WOW, that was a good call. He's hooked already, we got like 6-8 good seasons of prime doctor to go through, and DAMN Rose was a cutie back then. Bit rough with the effects and the stream is low quality, but I know it gets better.

I had forgotten how manic eccleston was. I would have said he was mostly serious and it was tenant that got really loopy but it's already here. If we do go through the series quickly it's gonna be a hoot to see how my kid responds to the different doctors and companions.

 

[Krathoon]

Episode 4 - Boom! was ok.
Apparently, the Doctor's body can magically hack computers now. The Doctor is literally saved by a "Ghost in the Machine".

 

[TheAtomicPile]

So I started my kid on the eccleston run (apparently streams on max but I just bought it off amazon) and WOW, that was a good call. He's hooked already, we got like 6-8 good seasons of prime doctor to go through, and DAMN Rose was a cutie back then. Bit rough with the effects and the stream is low quality, but I know it gets better.

I had forgotten how manic eccleston was. I would have said he was mostly serious and it was tenant that got really loopy but it's already here. If we do go through the series quickly it's gonna be a hoot to see how my kid responds to the different doctors and companions.

Eccleston was my personal first Doctor and is still my favorite to this day. On top of Eccleston's great portrayal, that first season of the revival is easily the most consistent in terms of quality. There are some real high highs without any of the low lows like every other subsequent season.

 

[Bulletzen72]

Episode 4 - Boom! was ok.
Apparently, the Doctor's body can magically hack computers now. The Doctor is literally saved by a "Ghost in the Machine".

I didn't get that take at all. No magical hacking. I thought it was the Doctor just gambling that there was enough of the dead dads personality in the AI for it to defend the living daughter and hack the Villengard network. Yes, a literal ghost in the machine. But no magical hacking from the Doctor. Just a gamble

 

[FunkMiller]

Ratings plummet again to just over 2m.

...but everyone's watching on streaming, right? That's what's happening, isn't it? It's super popular really!

 

[YCoCg]

Ratings plummet again to just over 2m.

...but everyone's watching on streaming, right? That's what's happening, isn't it? It's super popular really!

But it was one of the best written episodes in years so what do you think the issue is? There was no pandering or agenda in this episode so if that also performed badly you can't blame it on being "woke" because we got a good sci-fi story.

 

[Dr. Claus]

But it was one of the best written episodes in years so what do you think the issue is? There was no pandering or agenda in this episode so if that also performed badly you can't blame it on being "woke" because we got a good sci-fi story.

Being one of the best written in years doesn’t mean it was actually well written. It is like comparing C Diff Diarrhea to a bloody solid stool. It’s better, but still shit.

Raise your standards.

 

[YCoCg]

Being one of the best written in years doesn’t mean it was actually well written. It is like comparing C Diff Diarrhea to a bloody solid stool. It’s better, but still shit.

Raise your standards.

Steven Moffat has wrote most of the best episodes of Who since 2005 you fake ass fan.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Steven Moffat has wrote most of the best episodes of Who since 2005 you fake ass fan.

And he has become an increasingly worse writer over time. But if your argument is calling others “fake ass fans” for not celebrating trash, you clearly have no actual argument.

Maybe run back to Twitter with these shitty takes.

 

[YCoCg]

And he has become an increasingly worse writer over time. But if your argument is calling others “fake ass fans” for not celebrating trash, you clearly have no actual argument.

Maybe run back to Twitter with these shitty takes.

So let's talk about the actual episode, if you watched it, what was wrong with it?

 

[FunkMiller]

But it was one of the best written episodes in years so what do you think the issue is? There was no pandering or agenda in this episode so if that also performed badly you can't blame it on being "woke" because we got a good sci-fi story.

All the other terrible episodes that preceded it. People will only stick around for so long if you keep feeding them garbage. Sadly, with a few blips here and there, it's been ten years of decline for the show.

 

[YCoCg]

All the other terrible episodes that preceded it. People will only stick around for so long if you keep feeding them garbage. Sadly, with a few blips here and there, it's been ten years of decline for the show.

See that I can agree with, the previous two episodes were too "RTD" let loose so I can see why it would put people off but it's a shame when we get a banger of an episode by someone like Steven Moffat which is just full of his Sci-fi shenanigans and people still call it shit.

 

[FunkMiller]

See that I can agree with, the previous two episodes were too "RTD" let loose so I can see why it would put people off but it's a shame when we get a banger of an episode by someone like Steven Moffat which is just full of his Sci-fi shenanigans and people still call it shit.

I haven't watched it, but from the description I read you could probably have easily dropped Boom into a Matt Smith season, so I can see why it felt better. Shame that the quality of the show has plummeted since he was The Doctor.

If they'd have brought him back instead of Tennant, for the final season he says he wished he'd made, with a different group of people behind it, Disney would have a bone fide hit on their hands. Right after the 50th anniversary, the show was hot property, with a huge fanbase across the world.

Then they replaced the young, charismatic guy with the old grumpy git that put loads of people off, and the story quality dropped right off as well. Then it was into identity politics as the main driving force, and look where we are now.

 

[nush]

and people still call it shit.

After the anger stage comes apathy, and that's really what kills a franchise. long term fanbase just lose hope and just stop caring.

 

[Krathoon]

NEXT TIME
What the hell have you done, Ruby!?!

 

[Krathoon]

Doctor Who will always have a mixture of good and bad episodes. Old Who also had a good amount of stinkers.

The Capaldi seasons had some crappy ones and ones that did not make sense.

 

[YCoCg]

ones that did not make sense.

I'm CERTAIN that one episode with the sand people on the space station was just an unfinished script that they had to film to keep the episode count up, the episode even ends with the Doctor shouting "none of this makes sense" before running away in the TARDIS.

 

[Tams]

But it was one of the best written episodes in years so what do you think the issue is? There was no pandering or agenda in this episode so if that also performed badly you can't blame it on being "woke" because we got a good sci-fi story.

It could still be due to being woke, as first impressions count and how they launched this series and this Doctor slapped you in the face with terrible writing and wokeness.

There's so much to watch these days, or other things like games, books, etc., people give short thrift to this nonsense and just give up.

 

[FunkMiller]

Congratulations BBC One, Russell T Davies, and everyone else involved.

You've fucking murdered one of the best sci-fi shows in history.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Congratulations BBC One, Russell T Davies, and everyone else involved.

You've fucking murdered one of the best sci-fi shows in history.

So tired of the excuses people are using to dismiss the hate. "Its because the doctor is black and gay! It was because the doctor was a women! Incels don't want to see diversity!" etc etc etc

Reality is, the writing has become so heavy handed and insulting that no one wants to watch. There are amazing stories you could tell from the perspective of a black doctor, especially in certain time frames. Same with a female doctor. Same in a sci-fi universe. But instead, they go for low hanging fruit and just lecture the audience.

 

[FunkMiller]

So tired of the excuses people are using to dismiss the hate. "Its because the doctor is black and gay! It was because the doctor was a women! Incels don't want to see diversity!" etc etc etc

Reality is, the writing has become so heavy handed and insulting that no one wants to watch. There are amazing stories you could tell from the perspective of a black doctor, especially in certain time frames. Same with a female doctor. Same in a sci-fi universe. But instead, they go for low hanging fruit and just lecture the audience.

Spot on. Like everything Disney, it isn’t the diversity or inclusivity… it’s the fucking abhorrent writing and production.

 

[Krathoon]

I just find it funny that they are ignoring all the damage the Flux did. I would like to see them address that.

Maybe the Time entity reversed it?