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[Pagusas]

I felt the opposite. I actually got sick of Tennant near the end of his run. His Doctor had become unbelievably smug and arrogant and was only tolerable when he had a companion who could put him in his place, like Catherine Tate's Donna Noble (my favorite companion of his). I also rolled my eyes at his regeneration story being styled like a tragedy. We all know he's going to regenerate so what was the point? Eccleston's regeneration was handled so much better and really felt poignant, Tennant's felt like a long drawn out slog.

Now Matt Smith was a breath of fresh air and I enjoyed the goofy charm he brought to the role. His first season was brilliant but the rest dipped in quality because Steven Moffat was an idiot who couldn't properly finish his overarching storylines. Still, there were some brilliant episodes in Matt's run, like Neil Gaiman's The Doctor's Wife, my all time favorite episode of NuWho.

Ive never had such an opposite of opinion of someone. I HATED Matt Smith's doctor. The 4th season of Doctor who was the hight of the whole series to me. Silence in the Library, Midnight, Turn Left, The Waters of Mars and the last part of The End of Time. Seriously the show was firing on every cylinder. The docs regeneration was a tragedy, he was everything he ever wanted to be, he said so himself, he loved who he was (and that reflected wonderfully in Tennant's performance) and losing that was heart breaking for him (and me the viewer). You also HAVE to watch that ending with real life in mind knowing what it meant to the actor and production crew, they really didnt want to go, but they all knew it was time.

 

[GreyHorace]

Ive never had such an opposite of opinion of someone. I HATED Matt Smith's doctor. The 4th season of Doctor who was the hight of the whole series to me. Silence in the Library, Midnight, Turn Left, The Waters of Mars and the last part of The End of Time. Seriously the show was firing on every cylinder. The docs regeneration was a tragedy, he was everything he ever wanted to be, he said so himself, he loved who he was (and that reflected wonderfully in Tennant's performance) and losing that was heart breaking for him (and me the viewer). You also HAVE to watch that ending with real life in mind knowing what it meant to the actor and production crew, they really didnt want to go, but they all knew it was time.

Oh well. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, difference of opinion and all that. That's the great thing about the show. It's been on for so long and changed so much that fans have their own preferences as to what is great about the show and what isn't. Some people say that Peter Davison's 5th Doctor was one of the best of the Classic series, but I personally can't stand his run (Caves of Androzani is brilliant though). I feel (and as many others) that Tom Baker is still the best Doctor of all time, though some think he's way too over the top.

My issues with David Tennant have nothing to do with him as an actor. He's brilliant in other things I've seen him in (Broadchurch and the recent Good Omens), but the material they gave him in his final season of Who was not worthy of him and he deserved better. I place the blame more on Russell T. Davies who was making a big deal about his exit from the show rather than telling a good story. I thank Davies for his effort in bringing back Doctor Who after a long hiatus, but he was way too overindulgent with the drama on his finale.

I think many longtime fans though will agree with me that Chibnall is the worst thing to happen to Doctor Who in a long time.

 

[Nymphae]

but he was way too overindulgent with the drama on his finale.

I did feel Tenant's last moments where was revisiting everyone felt a little dragged out, I rolled my eyes at the bit where he saved Martha and Mickey from a random sniper on some scaffolding lol. But I thought the 4 knocks thing was perfect, and the "I don't want to go" line was great.

 

[GreyHorace]

You know, my only regret is that the RedLetterMedia guys are not fans of Doctor Who. They've never mentioned it and have probably never watched the show in their lives.

Because Chibnall and company are in definite need of a review mockery in the same manner Star Trek: Picard is getting from the guys.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

 

[Son Tofu]

It's always interesting to see a show run into the ground.

This is just bad storytelling.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I entered Dr Who with Capaldis run, and thought it was brilliant.
I never understood all the criticism thrown at Moffat and Capaldi.
That episode where he dies a million times to get away with that diamond wall was one of the best stories I have ever seen on TV.

 

[GreyHorace]

I entered Dr Who with Capaldis run, and thought it was brilliant.
I never understood all the criticism thrown at Moffat and Capaldi.
That episode where he dies a million times to get away with that diamond wall was one of the best stories I have ever seen on TV.

There were a lot of things wrong with Capaldi's run with Moffat.

The episode you described (Heaven Sent), is one of the best stories from that era I agree. Probably one of the best of Who. But for every piece of brilliance like that there was a lot of stupidity to be had, particularly with Moffat's overarching storylines. I'd describe Capaldi's run to be 'divisive' among the fandom. Some love it and some absolutely hate it.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

So, who is the least divisive doctor then?

 

[GreyHorace]

Tom Baker most likely. David Tennant too.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Okay, thanks. Will have a look into that...

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

So, who is the least divisive doctor then?

Tom Baker.
His Doctor had a penchant for jelly-babies.
Case closed.

 

[TriSuit666]

Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole have left the show.

 

[Nymphae]

Tom Baker.
His Doctor had a penchant for jelly-babies.
Case closed.

Many of them have Jelly babies at certain points I've noticed, in The Three Doctors I think Troughton mentions them, but Tom was the most known for that.

I was watching the Capaldi episode on the Orient Express in space last night, and at one point he pulls out a cigarette case that appears to be full of what I'm guessing are jelly babies?

 

[hariseldon]

Many of them have Jelly babies at certain points I've noticed, in The Three Doctors I think Troughton mentions them, but Tom was the most known for that.

I was watching the Capaldi episode on the Orient Express in space last night, and at one point he pulls out a cigarette case that appears to be full of what I'm guessing are jelly babies?

Capaldi's run had quite a few nods to past doctors.

 

[MudoSkills]

Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole have left the show.

It says quite a lot about the material that Bradley Walsh has been one of the more compelling reasons to watch the last couple of series.

 

[Lanrutcon]

That twist is the dumbest shit I have heard in a while.

 

[bRacing]

She's a great actor, but those writers are dogshit tier.

 

[Saruhashi]

It's always interesting to see a show run into the ground.

This is just bad storytelling.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

It's really fascinating to watch it happening.
How there is a work of art which has integrity and history but the name is owned by a corporation who can do whatever they want with it.

So you have this audience who holds the old stories and the lore etc dear to their hearts.
Then you have the owners just deciding to overwrite and change and so on.

I remember all the outrage when Lucas remastered Star Wars.
He's making all these changes and tweaks but to people who loved the originals it's almost like an act of vandalism.
Even if he is the creator it still feels a bit crass to just be going in there and adding a CGI thing here and a new sound effect there etc.

Now stuff like the Star Wars sequels and the new Doctor Who stuff is like that but on a larger and kind of more disturbing scale.

You have these cultural touchstones and some new writer just comes along and goes "nah, let's change all of that".
Luke, Han and Leia never did live happily ever after once the Emperor and Vader were dead because Disney bought the Star Wars brand and some new writers came in and made up a new ending where their lives all turned to shit and then they died.

For me it definitely is like a kind of cultural vandalism.

"Haha! We own the story now so we are changing the canon!"

 

[Nymphae]

For me it definitely is like a kind of cultural vandalism.

"Haha! We own the story now so we are changing the canon!"

Typically I tend to think that none of this stuff damages the quality of the original stuff, but honestly with Star Wars the new stuff has seriously destroyed my interest in the series and has just made me not care about the universe at all anymore, I get bummed out looking at my 1/6th R2 model I bought when I still had love and hope for the series. I understand this is an internal thing, like I said, the originals are still there and what they were when I first enjoyed them, but these acts of cultural vandalism as you put it have put me off of even wanting to revisit the stuff I used to like. It's not like I'm fuming angry about it and holding a grudge either - it's just how I feel, completely apathetic.

 

[Saruhashi]

Typically I tend to think that none of this stuff damages the quality of the original stuff, but honestly with Star Wars the new stuff has seriously destroyed my interest in the series and has just made me not care about the universe at all anymore, I get bummed out looking at my 1/6th R2 model I bought when I still had love and hope for the series. I understand this is an internal thing, like I said, the originals are still there and what they were when I first enjoyed them, but these acts of cultural vandalism as you put it have put me off of even wanting to revisit the stuff I used to like. It's not like I'm fuming angry about it and holding a grudge either - it's just how I feel, completely apathetic.

In some ways I think it would be better for people to just not care, not hold a grudge, not get angry and just move on.
Like, that show or movie just isn't for you anymore so move on.

The truth is though that many people have invested their time and money and thoughts and feelings into these cultural icons.
You could almost think of things like Star Wars and Doctor Who as institutions.

If you love something enough, and care enough, to put all that time and thought into it then for sure you want to see it do well.
You want to share it with other and see them get some joy out of it too.

What happens if you introduced a friend or a relative to something you hold dear and instead of seeing it for what it is they say "can we just burn it down and replace it with something else"?

It's almost a curse for something to become popular these days.
People want "I love the Popular Thing" to be a part of their identity but actually they don't like that thing at all.
So it needs to change to pander to people who feel "left out".

It's a weird contradiction because it leaves the "franchise" constantly shifting and changing so that it can be seen as "inviting" and "inclusive".
Who knows what Doctor Who and Star Wars would be like in 50 years as they change and warp in an effort to remain "relevant" consumer products.

Star Trek seems to be having the same problem where what they are basically trying to do is market the "Star Trek" brand to people who are not traditionally Star Trek fans.
The logic seems to be that Star Trek fans have had Star Trek all to themselves all these years so maybe it's time to give someone else a go.

Take Thing X away from the Fans of Thing X and re-purpose it for mass consumption.
Then ridicule the fans for being unhappy as the new product bombs and the brand loses it's prestige.

 

[jshackles]

I'm just happy that I was able to share something I loved as a kid (Doctor Who) with my kids, who were 5 and 7 when the Christopher Eccleston reboot happened. My son in particular was old enough to enjoy the show but young enough to be absolutely terrified by the monsters like the weeping angels and the silence. It was great fun watching it with them every week because it was like a whole new generation of Behind the Sofa.

I'm glad they're grown now because the current show resembles almost nothing of what made me love it as a kid.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Is anyone going to reveal who this doctor is so we can avoid him?

 

[Nymphae]

I thought for sure for a while there they were going to say that his name was actually Doctor Who, they leaned on that pretty heavy nearing the end of Smith. I thought it was historically one of those cheeky little things that a side character would say now and then and the audience would smile, but I didn't like them making the phrase so prominent in the narrative, it felt cheesy.

 

[Dazrael]

Has his true name been revealed yet? I stopped watching at the start of the Capaldi run and by the sounds of it I’m kinda glad I did.

 

[Nymphae]

Good lord there is a lot of Big Finish content out there. Looking forward to getting into those once I've run out of TV content to watch.

 

[jshackles]

Good lord there is a lot of Big Finish content out there. Looking forward to getting into those once I've run out of TV content to watch.

Keep in mind that they're more like old-timey radio dramas than audiobooks. Like - watch an old episode of Tom Baker's doctor but just listen to the audio rather than watch the screen, and that's what you can expect from most of those.

In my experience, some are better than others. Some just have wayyyy too many sound effects and characters reacting to those effects and it becomes difficult to follow the story as a result.

 

[Nymphae]

Keep in mind that they're more like old-timey radio dramas than audiobooks. Like - watch an old episode of Tom Baker's doctor but just listen to the audio rather than watch the screen, and that's what you can expect from most of those.

I have a lot of time at work to listen to things, totally down for some audio dramas.

 

[Stilton Disco]

There were a lot of things wrong with Capaldi's run with Moffat.

The episode you described (Heaven Sent), is one of the best stories from that era I agree. Probably one of the best of Who. But for every piece of brilliance like that there was a lot of stupidity to be had, particularly with Moffat's overarching storylines. I'd describe Capaldi's run to be 'divisive' among the fandom. Some love it and some absolutely hate it.

I loved Capaldi himself but hated Clara, which severely undermined two thirds of his run for me.

I have a lot of time at work to listen to things, totally down for some audio dramas.

If you like the more Classic Who style of story and Tom Baker specifically, theres also the Hornets Nest audiodrama and it's sequels that I'd recommend.

They're not by Big Finish, but they're still solid stories with the 4th Doctor, very classic styled adventures, fully acted and with Tom Baker himself reprising the role with a lot of enthusiasm.

 

[Nymphae]

Stilton Disco very nice, thank you for that recommendation I will certainly listen to that!

 

[Son Tofu]

I was talking to a friend about this latest revelation and he didn't hate it all that much. That said, he did say it was poor storytelling simply because this new revelation now creates SO many plot holes that are going to need to be explained away. He went on to say that the easiest way to fix this latest nonsense is to make it a manipulation by the Master.

I think there needs to be a soft retcon. Bring Smith back for a few episodes and have him regenerate into an entirely new doctor (erasing Capaldi and Whittaker). Capaldi's run had some great stuff happen but it was pretty lackluster overall. A soft reboot can fix some of the problems that drove people away in the first place.

 

[Gargus]

The problem may be is that it's too old. It doesn't attract many new comers because unless you grew up with it back in the day the new series probably doesn't appeal to younger people because it isn't on the CW. When every kid is walking around with Netflix and hulu and YouTube in their pocket it's hard to stand out.

Or maybe the show in general just has gone down hill.

Or maybe there are just too many sci fi series on every streaming service, tv, and YouTube, etc that it can't stand out as a series in a society where everything is a fucking series. There are are many series constantly coming out everywhere it's impossible to begin to keep up.

Or the novelty of a british/English show has lost its luster. That was an appeal to me as a kid was it was different from anything else because of its British roots there wasn't a show on American tv like it. And that was a part of its appeal was that it was different from normal American shows.

Aside from the older hardcore fans I think dr who is a novelty. It's something cool to say you like. It's cool to have a tardis coffee cup or a sonic screwdriver keychain. You dont have to actually like the show, just say you do and own some merchandise.

Really though ever since they tried to modernize dr who I quit watching. I stopped being interested a long time ago and haven't watched it in a decade or so.

 

[GreyHorace]

The problem may be is that it's too old. It doesn't attract many new comers because unless you grew up with it back in the day the new series probably doesn't appeal to younger people because it isn't on the CW. When every kid is walking around with Netflix and hulu and YouTube in their pocket it's hard to stand out.

Or maybe the show in general just has gone down hill.

Or maybe there are just too many sci fi series on every streaming service, tv, and YouTube, etc that it can't stand out as a series in a society where everything is a fucking series. There are are many series constantly coming out everywhere it's impossible to begin to keep up.

Or the novelty of a british/English show has lost its luster. That was an appeal to me as a kid was it was different from anything else because of its British roots there wasn't a show on American tv like it. And that was a part of its appeal was that it was different from normal American shows.

Aside from the older hardcore fans I think dr who is a novelty. It's something cool to say you like. It's cool to have a tardis coffee cup or a sonic screwdriver keychain. You dont have to actually like the show, just say you do and own some merchandise.

Really though ever since they tried to modernize dr who I quit watching. I stopped being interested a long time ago and haven't watched it in a decade or so.

I don't think Doctor Who is too old or too British. In fact I think it managed to capture a new generation of fans when the new series launched in 2005. Hell, I'm part of the local Whovian fandom here in the Philippines and it's a huge group of people half my age (mostly young women). And the comparison to the CW is kind of ironic since their series (The Flash, Green Arrow, Supergirl) are even older properties than Who!

Really, I place the blame squarely on the current production team and the BBC's insane push of the woke agenda for the show's current woes. Frankly speaking, it'd do good if the English Parliament votes to rid the BBC of the licence fee. Maybe then they'll start making programming the British public actually wants to watch.

 

[Nymphae]

All they need is good writers and charismatic performers, there's nothing "too old" about the show at all I don't think, it's one of the best premises in science fiction, and I mean the revival brought in a ton of new fans. They just need to get better people at the helm it would seem.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Actually I think 'the britishness' is the biggest selling point of Dr. Who, at least for me personally.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[TriSuit666]

Or the novelty of a british/English show has lost its luster.

The original concept for Doctor Who came from a Canadian, and it was first sold on to US TV in 1972.

However Season 12 of the 2005 version was funded by the BBC in partnership with HBO Max.

Doomcock didn't hold back. This was expected.

 

[PSYGN]

Read this as if they found a doctor who had the worst ratings in 31 years of practice and was amused only to be left disappointed.

 

[Stilton Disco]

The problem may be is that it's too old. It doesn't attract many new comers because unless you grew up with it back in the day the new series probably doesn't appeal to younger people because it isn't on the CW. When every kid is walking around with Netflix and hulu and YouTube in their pocket it's hard to stand out.

Or maybe the show in general just has gone down hill.

Or maybe there are just too many sci fi series on every streaming service, tv, and YouTube, etc that it can't stand out as a series in a society where everything is a fucking series. There are are many series constantly coming out everywhere it's impossible to begin to keep up.

Or the novelty of a british/English show has lost its luster. That was an appeal to me as a kid was it was different from anything else because of its British roots there wasn't a show on American tv like it. And that was a part of its appeal was that it was different from normal American shows.

Aside from the older hardcore fans I think dr who is a novelty. It's something cool to say you like. It's cool to have a tardis coffee cup or a sonic screwdriver keychain. You dont have to actually like the show, just say you do and own some merchandise.

Really though ever since they tried to modernize dr who I quit watching. I stopped being interested a long time ago and haven't watched it in a decade or so.

It was already over 20 years old when I was born, and that made no difference whatsoever to my loving it. Good fiction is good fiction, all the passage of time should be altering is the quality and ambition of the production values.

It's definitely a show that was popular and remained so precisely because it was so very British at its core though.

Infact things really began to go wrong when it started to move away from that Britishness towards the end of Matt Smith's run, ironically in a bid to chase further audience growth, as so many niche but very popular shows make the mistake of doing, only ending up failing to capture wider interest while at the same time no longer providing existing fans with what drew them in in the first place.

It's only worsened under Chibnall of course, mostly because he, like so many at the BBC currently, seem to genuinely hate the British people, their history, culture and heritage.

 

[MudoSkills]

How can you say it has lost it's Britishness when 90% of the last two series has taken place in fucking Sheffield?

 

[hariseldon]

How can you say it has lost it's Britishness when 90% of the last two series has taken place in fucking Sheffield?

Britishness isn't just about a place, it's about an attitude, a culture. For instance, Benidorm is very British, despite not being in Britain.

 

[Stilton Disco]

How can you say it has lost it's Britishness when 90% of the last two series has taken place in fucking Sheffield?

When you get down to it, Doctor Who used to be about an eccentric bloke in his shed, going out and sticking his oar in where it wasn't wanted, only to end up inproving things and being terribly smug about it, with the occasional dash of heroic self sacrifice and/or dodgy jokes.

It was the most British anything could possibly be without being made entirely out of crumpets that apologise if you so much as look at them.

Just being set in Britain doesn't make something British, and it certainly doesnt make it proudly, unapologetically British, as this show always used to be.

 

[MudoSkills]

To be honest that was more a dig at the fact that despite having the universe at their disposal they seem to do a disproportionate amount of work in Yorkshire.

 

[nush]

How can you say it has lost it's Britishness when 90% of the last two series has taken place in fucking Sheffield?

Fucking Sheffield. It's a shithole.

 

[TriSuit666]

How can you say it has lost it's Britishness when 90% of the last two series has taken place in fucking Sheffield?

Clearly never been to 'fucking' Sheffield lately, then...

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

You either know Sheffield or you don't.

Spoiler

If you ever want to upset a Sheffield local, just compare Hendo's to Worcestershire sauce.

 

[slugbahr]

Fucking Sheffield. It's a shithole.

Home of the Snooker World Championship for over 40 years, so it can't be that bad.

 

[Nymphae]

I thought this was a thread about medical yelp reviews

For a second I thought this was about a particular doctor who suddenly bombed in his medical career

Read this as if they found a doctor who had the worst ratings in 31 years of practice and was amused only to be left disappointed.

You guys should start a comedy troupe.

 

[Mistake]

You guys should start a comedy troupe.

Maybe I can quote myself and steal my own material

 

[GreyHorace]

It was already over 20 years old when I was born, and that made no difference whatsoever to my loving it. Good fiction is good fiction, all the passage of time should be altering is the quality and ambition of the production values.

It's definitely a show that was popular and remained so precisely because it was so very British at its core though.

Tom Baker is my favorite Doctor, and his run was even before I was born! For me, his stint as the Doctor had the best stories such as The Ark in Space, The Face of Evil, The Talons of Weng Chiang, The Pirate Planet, City of Death and more. All of these are classic that have stood the test of time despite the cheap effects because the writing was so strong. Show these episodes even to New Series and I think even they will appreciate them.

Not to say the new series is not without it's great episodes, but they tend to lean more on the visual effects nowadays more than before.

Infact things really began to go wrong when it started to move away from that Britishness towards the end of Matt Smith's run, ironically in a bid to chase further audience growth, as so many niche but very popular shows make the mistake of doing, only ending up failing to capture wider interest while at the same time no longer providing existing fans with what drew them in in the first place.

It's only worsened under Chibnall of course, mostly because he, like so many at the BBC currently, seem to genuinely hate the British people, their history, culture and heritage.

I really don't understand this. Why does the BBC, the majority of the British entertainment industry and mainstream media feel this way? Does it all stem from Brexit? WTF? So the British people voted to leave the European Union. Tough. Why do they have to be so goddamn petty about it?