Support NeoGAF

[Kai Dracon]

After further playing I've concluded that wiimote+nunchuk has to be the way Retro designed the game and how it's meant to be played.

First, about "platformers with analog stick": This game isn't Mario. DK has serious weight and he practically has analog physics because of how he slides around. While some may prefer the mindset that digital tapping creates with their reflexes, I honestly think there's no objective benefit to using the d-pad this time. This isn't a game where you stop on a dime. Retro also seems to have tuned it with that in mind.

But mainly, it's the shake moves. Snapping the wiimote with one hand ala Mario Galaxy is far more comfortable and instant than shaking a wiimote with two hands. The mechanics also feel more natural and logical in this configuration. It's much more comfortable to pound (and to keep pounding); and rolling /is/ better as having to only snap the wiimote once while your hand holding the nunchuk remains unaffected feels less disruptive.

I'm going with the wiimote combo for the rest of the game.

 

[TheExodu5]

I would like the NSMB theme more if it didn't have those awful synthesized voices.

 

[dark10x]

I agree. But the music is the one thing I thought fully delivered on the original DS game. It was catchy, fun, and iconic, and really fun to play while it went in the background.

I thought it was wonderful. But alright.

Music is very subjective, so that's cool.

Super Mario World is faster and more responsive than NSMB Wii, easily. If you're finding otherwise, then I'm guessing you're using an emulator that's adding input lag.

DKCR is the second best controlling platformer I've ever played. The first is Super Meat Boy.

Yep. I've played quite a bit of Mario World on a real SNES using a CRT lately and it is infinitely more responsive than NSMB Wii. I think people forget just how responsive the game really is. I've also tried NSMB on a CRT and it's just as sluggish (that is, the issue is not related to input lag).

I would like the NSMB theme more if it didn't have those awful synthesized voices.

Heh, yeah, that's probably the worst thing. Those synth voices are sooooo bad. The rest of the samples are pretty shit as well, but those voices are beyond awful.

 

[jett]

I would like the NSMB theme more if it didn't have those awful synthesized voices.

They're the exact same voice samples that the DS games use, or at least it sounds that way. :lol

DKCR doesn't really fare much better when it comes to sample quality either, unfortunately.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Super Mario World is faster and more responsive than NSMB Wii, easily. If you're finding otherwise, then I'm guessing you're using an emulator that's adding input lag. NSMB is incredibly sluggish, and jumps are almost entirely momentum based, which gives way to the controls feeling very floaty.

DKCR is the second best controlling platformer I've ever played. The first is Super Meat Boy.

Every Mario game has different physics. The NSMB series are intended as sequels to the original Super Mario Bros and the characters handle like SMB. So yes, they're heavy and inertia has a bigger grip on them. The control is actually pixel-perfect in that context - I could criticize DKCR if I wanted by saying DK is heavy and sluggish compared to Meat Boy who has like no weight at all.

 

[jett]

After further playing I've concluded that wiimote+nunchuk has to be the way Retro designed the game and how it's meant to be played.

First, about "platformers with analog stick": This game isn't Mario. DK has serious weight and he practically has analog physics because of how he slides around. While some may prefer the mindset that digital tapping creates with their reflexes, I honestly think there's no objective benefit to using the d-pad this time. This isn't a game where you stop on a dime. Retro also seems to have tuned it with that in mind.

But mainly, it's the shake moves. Snapping the wiimote with one hand ala Mario Galaxy is far more comfortable and instant than shaking a wiimote with two hands. The mechanics also feel more natural and logical in this configuration. It's much more comfortable to pound (and to keep pounding); and rolling /is/ better as having to only snap the wiimote once while your hand holding the nunchuk remains unaffected feels less disruptive.

I'm going with the wiimote combo for the rest of the game.

Nice, thanks for the write-up, seems clear they're trying to imitate SMG with the one-hand motion to initiate roll, obviously that's going to feel really borked when just using only the wiimote. I always figured nunchuck config would be the right way to play DKCR, simply from what I had read that the Retro guys felt that the feeling of bonging the controllers to ground and pound was really important to them.

 

[farnham]

Tell me about it, i'm a huge WoW player, and the dust on my black PC & monitor is hard to miss.

I'm sure all these "lol dusty Wii, time to blow it off" people still have dust on their 360/PS3/PC.

But i guess saying your Wii has dust is better than saying that the Wii sucks, amirite?

well it essentially means the same thing

 

[WillyFive]

well it essentially means the same thing

Not really, since things gather dust because you are around them a lot. If you weren't using it and had it tucked in someplace, it shouldn't be gathering dust.

It's all a misnomer.

 

[farnham]

Not really, since things gather dust because you are around them a lot. If you weren't using it and had it tucked in someplace, it shouldn't be gathering dust.

oh cmon you know what game journalists mean when they are saying

"my wii is dusty"

I thought it was wonderful. But alright.

i really like the other theme but the main one not that much.. galaxy definately does a better job music wise (nsmbwii is better gameplay wise though)

 

[Bisnic]

well it essentially means the same thing

I know, but i guess some people think it's better to say dust than sucks. :lol

 

[WillyFive]

oh cmon you know what game journalists mean when they are saying

"my wii is dusty"

Yeah, that's not the argument here.

It's just a dumb thing to say.

It's like saying it breaks because you don't use it.

 

[jett]

Too bad the Wii doesn't support anything like custom soundtracks because fans have done a better job at arranging DKC music than Kenji Yamamoto.

 

[farnham]

I know, but i guess some people think it's better to say dust than sucks. :lol

well if you are saying it sucks outright you will get chris hecker`d

Too bad the Wii doesn't support anything like custom soundtracks because fans have done a better job at arranging DKC music than Kenji Yamamoto.

i do like custom soundtracks for certain games (games that are using licensed stuff anyways)

but games like this ? hell no! game music is an essential part of the design.

 

[agrajag]

What's interesting is that no one seems to have a problem with shake-to-blow or shake-to-pound, just shake-to-roll. Which makes sense, because stb and stp are both going to be cases where precision is not critical and timing isn't majorly critical, but str is obviously a different story.

Exactly. I didn't get the game yet, going to the store in a few minutes, so I don't know how crucial pounding and blowing is in the game. I never used the ground pound in the original DKC. But rolling requires timing, and it's unfortunate that it's mapped to a seemingly unreliable control input.

 

[bounchfx]

holy SHIT this game is awesome. Halfway through world 2 and I am blown away. I was set after the first 2 levels alone. probably the best wii game I've played so far, next to Galaxy 2.

Super Mario World is faster and more responsive than NSMB Wii, easily. If you're finding otherwise, then I'm guessing you're using an emulator that's adding input lag. NSMB is incredibly sluggish, and jumps are almost entirely momentum based, which gives way to the controls feeling very floaty.

hey look! completely explaining why I really dislike NSMBWii controls. it hinders the entire game experience for me.

 

[WillyFive]

but games like this ? hell no! game music is an essential part of the design.

The idea is not of using outside music, but using making tracks go in different places.

 

[jett]

well if you are saying it sucks outright you will get chris hecker`d
i do like custom soundtracks for certain games (games that are using licensed stuff anyways)

but games like this ? hell no! game music is an essential part of the design.

I'd replace it with DKC arrangements that actually sound good.

 

[TheOddOne]

The wait is killing me.

 

[GregLombardi]

i do like custom soundtracks for certain games (games that are using licensed stuff anyways)

but games like this ? hell no! game music is an essential part of the design.

So few game designers seem to have the budgets or the means to understand this. Ocarina of Time's music, for example, is IMHO so key that the game would be a crappy pile of dung without it. It adds synergy to everything in that game.

Same with Final Fantasy 7, Resident Evil series, etc. The music made the games as much as the games made the games.

It makes me sad that people aren't fully happy with DKCR's music, or is that not the general consensus?

 

[Chet Rippo]

It makes me sad that people aren't fully happy with DKCR's music, or is that not the general consensus?

The first worlds music is okay

Spoiler

The Sunset level music is great though

, but after that they get great. The forest and tree top town songs are better than they were in the originals.

 

[dvolovets]

Gonna be playing this tomorrow. Can't wait!

 

[farnham]

what i love about nsmbwii is that it really is allowing you to calculate your jumps even moreso then any other mario game.

in previous mario games momentum, high of jump etc is always a calculation process but there was a certain portion of luck involved imo (well at least for me) in NSMBWii i could perfectly calculate every move i made and knew where i messed up when i died. i never felt that there was any luck involved. thats why im holding NSMBWii as the pinnacle of 2D platforming.

 

[dark10x]

Too bad the Wii doesn't support anything like custom soundtracks because fans have done a better job at arranging DKC music than Kenji Yamamoto.

Yeah, he didn't really do a great job. :\ I love his Metroid work, but this type of music doesn't seem to be his forte. The original game actually did a wonderful job building atmosphere through music and this just doesn't do any of that. The first world has some nice remixes, but the next four worlds were a bit lacking musically. None of the tracks really try to stand out and seem content to roll with jungle beats and other simple segments.

It's not a bad soundtrack, but it isn't as good as I had hoped.

 

[Emitan]

I just installed Homebrew on my Wii so I'm very new to the scene, but would it be possible to use cheats or something to add in CC support? Or rolling on a button? Because the rolling controls sound unresponsive.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Guys I love Donkey Kong Country more than anything and this new game looks like heaven. Is it worth getting the Wii just for this if this is likely the only thing Ill play on it?

 

[dark10x]

Guys I love Donkey Kong Country more than anything and this new game looks like heaven. Is it worth getting the Wii just for this if this is likely the only thing Ill play on it?

Do you like platformers? The Wii has a huge number of great platform games. Any fan of the genre should own one and play many of those games.

 

[jett]

Guys I love Donkey Kong Country more than anything and this new game looks like heaven. Is it worth getting the Wii just for this if this is likely the only thing Ill play on it?

A Wii is worth getting for the Super Mario Galaxy games alone.

 

[Zzoram]

I just installed Homebrew on my Wii so I'm very new to the scene, but would it be possible to use cheats or something to add in CC support? Or rolling on a button? Because the rolling controls sound unresponsive.

Why don't you try it for an hour to see if you can learn it instead of letting whiny GAF tell you it doesn't work the way they want it to?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Do you like platformers? The Wii has a huge number of great platform games. Any fan of the genre should own one and play many of those games.

I love platformers but I haven't been able to get into SMG. I just don't have the time to play through any of them anymore. DKC seems short and sweet just like the original though.

 

[EzLink]

God, the totality of yesterday was just a big blur of weed and gorilla death. I finished up world 7 before calling it quits last night. The difficulty gets fucking brutal in some of the later stages, but the sense of accomplishment you feel when finally completing some of these more devious levels is something that I haven't really experienced in gaming in a very very long time. Getting all of the puzzle pieces in the game will be an incredible accomplishment, but I think getting a gold medal on every single stage is something that will only be reserved for the gods.

The level design is just brilliantly consistent the entire way through. Can't wait to see how the game finishes

Glad to see how much everybody here is loving it

Also, today is exactly 14 years since DKC3 came out. Hard to believe I was SIX YEARS OLD the last time I was playing a new Donkey Kong Country.

 

[polyh3dron]

I picked up this game yesterday and couldn't put the controller down until about 230am even though I had to work this morning. Only thing bothering me other than the obvious shake to roll thing is that I can't pick up Diddy and throw him.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

It's really amazing how in agreement the critics are on this game:

- NintendoLife; 10
- Destructoid; 10 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll takes some time to get used to)
- 1up; A/10
- GameInformer; 9.5 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll less than optimal)
- GameTrailers; 9.0 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll sacrifices precision)
- IGN; 9.0 (two nitpicks: first world a little boring, shake-to-roll sometimes results in cheap deaths)
- Joystiq; 9
- Eurogamer; 9 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll doesn't feel smooth, multiplayer is a little underwhelming)
- GamePro; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, vehicle levels are iffy)
- GiantBomb; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, losing Diddy's abilities when you get hit sucks)
- GamesRadar; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, some levels are frustrating more than hard)
- GameSpy; 7 (complaints: shake-to-roll sucks, some levels are frustrating)

Everyone thinks the level design, music, visual presentation, and core gameplay are great. Everyone who says anything negative starts with shake-to-roll. And look at the GAF impressions; anyone who says anything negative starts with shake-to-roll.

It's pretty amazing, because the reception is clearly quite warm amongst fans, newcomers, and reviewers alike. Except for shake-to-roll. How did something like that not get fixed? Is this a Lair situation where everyone knew it was a problem, but because of some abstract principle, refused to fix it? It also speaks to the role of patches in console games; everyone knows that classic controller support would be patched in if patches were possible on the Wii.

Well, Retro will have thus no problem understanding what changes have to be carried out while developing Donkey Kong Country Returns 2.

 

[Bisnic]

Well hopefully, if a sequel is to come, it won't take 2-3 years to make it. And if they do use remixes of DKC2 musics...just hire David Wise again! That and CC support.

Then, it will be the perfect DKC.

 

[TheExodu5]

I picked up this game yesterday and couldn't put the controller down until about 230am even though I had to work this morning. Only thing both
ering me other than the obvious shake to roll thing is that I can't pick up Diddy and throw him.

I hated the throwing mechanic. It slowed down the pace of the game. I also have the same problem with the pounding in this game. It's a tad annoying having to check out all the plants and whatnot for possible puzzle pieces.

 

[DR2K]

I like shaking to roll, it felt smooth and natural to me. I guess since I'm athletic moving my arms isn't an inconvenience.:lol

 

[totowhoa]

Man, I'm halfway through world 5 now and this is shaping up to be somewhere in my top 5 platformers. I also think stopping to blow just to check for a puzzle piece happens too often, but that's a bit of a minor complaint. Game is so godly. Only issue is shake-to-roll, but wii remote+nunchuck makes that MUCH more responsive in my opinion. The level design is brilliant, the difficulty is nearly perfect for this sort of platformer, and there are tons of collectibles. I've I already sunk plenty of time into it, and I can't wait to finish it up and work on completing every level and getting gold medal speed runs.

So much funnnn

 

[msdstc]

Been playing it quite a bit... definitely a fan so far. The first 2 will still never be topped, but I'll have to finish this up to see how it measures up against the entire series.

That being said, I'm really not a fan of the motion sensing so far . I keep trying to roll and it'll respond late, or I'll try to ground pound something and he'll roll away instead, it's very frustrating. Wish they allowed for the classic controller, I'd probably like it a lot better. Once again, I still love it, just saying I probably would more with a gamecube or classic controller.

 

[Kard8p3]

Been playing it quite a bit... definitely a fan so far. The first 2 will still never be topped, but I'll have to finish this up to see how it measures up against the entire series.

That being said, I'm really not a fan of the motion sensing so far . I keep trying to roll and it'll respond late, or I'll try to ground pound something and he'll roll away instead, it's very frustrating. Wish they allowed for the classic controller, I'd probably like it a lot better. Once again, I still love it, just saying I probably would more with a gamecube or classic controller.

I haven't played it yet so I can't say for sure but it should easily be better than the first DKC. DKC while good was never as great as people claimed. DKC2 is where it's at (though even that game is somewhat overrated.)

 

[boiled goose]

It's really amazing how in agreement the critics are on this game:

- NintendoLife; 10
- Destructoid; 10 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll takes some time to get used to)
- 1up; A/10
- GameInformer; 9.5 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll less than optimal)
- GameTrailers; 9.0 (only nitpick: shake-to-roll sacrifices precision)
- IGN; 9.0 (two nitpicks: first world a little boring, shake-to-roll sometimes results in cheap deaths)
- Joystiq; 9
- Eurogamer; 9 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll doesn't feel smooth, multiplayer is a little underwhelming)
- GamePro; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, vehicle levels are iffy)
- GiantBomb; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, losing Diddy's abilities when you get hit sucks)
- GamesRadar; 8 (nitpicks: shake-to-roll sucks, some levels are frustrating more than hard)
- GameSpy; 7 (complaints: shake-to-roll sucks, some levels are frustrating)

Everyone thinks the level design, music, visual presentation, and core gameplay are great. Everyone who says anything negative starts with shake-to-roll. And look at the GAF impressions; anyone who says anything negative starts with shake-to-roll.

It's pretty amazing, because the reception is clearly quite warm amongst fans, newcomers, and reviewers alike. Except for shake-to-roll. How did something like that not get fixed? Is this a Lair situation where everyone knew it was a problem, but because of some abstract principle, refused to fix it? It also speaks to the role of patches in console games; everyone knows that classic controller support would be patched in if patches were possible on the Wii.

I have said this all along and will say it again. A major fuck up from retro. Just include the CC option. Im sure nintendo somehow forced them not to. Options are never bad, if the superior control scheme includes shaking, well that option is included, if people dont have CC, that option is included, if you dont like shaking, that option is included. Nintendo shoehorning motion controls at certain times (here, TP) lets me know that while they do know how to make motion controls fun (WSR, WS, warioware), they still sometimes have their head so far up their own ass that they force it onto places where it doesnt make sense at all. (which is weird because in japan, they are almost trying to completely move away from too much motion control by including CCs with a lot of their core games)

Maybe it was just a retro fuckup. someone should seriously ask them. Why the fuck did you not include the option to use a CC???

 

[Hobbun]

Well, Retro will have thus no problem understanding what changes have to be carried out while developing Donkey Kong Country Returns 2.

Well, as we were talking about, I don't think it was so much Retro that decided to put in the motion controls for the roll, but Nintendo.

Hopefully Nintendo understands what changes should be carried out for DKCR2 and is willing to make the changes.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Does the game use pointer controls at all?

 

[Proven]

what i love about nsmbwii is that it really is allowing you to calculate your jumps even moreso then any other mario game.

in previous mario games momentum, high of jump etc is always a calculation process but there was a certain portion of luck involved imo (well at least for me) in NSMBWii i could perfectly calculate every move i made and knew where i messed up when i died. i never felt that there was any luck involved. thats why im holding NSMBWii as the pinnacle of 2D platforming.

Super Mario World was my first Mario game but even with the tint of nostalgia I end up preferring NSMBWii as well. I prefer having weight and momentum in my platformers, which is probably why I also enjoyed Sonic games to a degree. It just makes me really feel like I'm interacting with an actual world with physics and stuff. I'm a little more lenient with Super Meat Boy as he's so tiny, so part of my brain is willing to give him feather physics, but it doesn't completely sit well with me.

 

[hatchx]

I have said this all along and will say it again. A major fuck up from retro. Just include the CC option. Im sure nintendo somehow forced them not to. Options are never bad, if the superior control scheme includes shaking, well that option is included, if people dont have CC, that option is included, if you dont like shaking, that option is included. Nintendo shoehorning motion controls at certain times (here, TP) lets me know that while they do know how to make motion controls fun (WSR, WS, warioware), they still sometimes have their head so far up their own ass that they force it onto places where it doesnt make sense at all. (which is weird because in japan, they are almost trying to completely move away from too much motion control by including CCs with a lot of their core games)

Maybe it was just a retro fuckup. someone should seriously ask them. Why the fuck did you not include the option to use a CC???

While I agree CC controls should be in the sequel, not everyone hates the motion controls. I personally love them, and should a sequel come out I'll be playing the wiimote/nunchuck way regardless of options.

 

[Proven]

While I agree CC controls should be in the sequel, not everyone hates the motion controls. I personally love them, and should a sequel come out I'll be playing the wiimote/nunchuck way regardless of options.

The question seems to become whether or not it was necessary to force people into giving the motion controls a try.

 

[farnham]

While I agree CC controls should be in the sequel, not everyone hates the motion controls. I personally love them, and should a sequel come out I'll be playing the wiimote/nunchuck way regardless of options.

so giving the option for CC would be the way to go

for everyone that likes waggle - wiimote (i luv waggle btw)
for everyone else - cc

 

[.la1n]

Iv'e found nunchuck + wiimote really works best for me, I started using just the wiimote sideways but the nunchuck combo just feels better. Think I will stick with it for the rest of my playthrough.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

It's always the same thing. Every Wii platformer should have CC support and waggle sucks.

Yet the PS3 controller looks almost identical to the PS1 controller, and the 360 controller looks almost the same as the XBOX controller. Only Nintendo changes their controllers every generation. There won't be any controller options for PS3 and 360 games because there's only one (technically you can say Move is an alternate control option).

Not everyone has a CC: I think it's marketed for VC games. But everyone has a Wii remote and a nunchuk. Why not develop your games to support the new controller option? And why not implement motion controls? Isn't this gen all about motion controls? Did anyone complain about waggle in Galaxy?

It sounds like some people want their classic game and their classic controls too. God forbid developers try anything new, like a new controller design (strangely enough the Wii remote works really well sideways and forward-facing) and motion controls.

 

[SupaNaab]

How likely is it that someone would eventually add Classic controller support or allow remapping of controls to a Wii game given the existance of Wii Mods like Brawl+ and so forth.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Not everyone has a CC: I think it's marketed for VC games.

It was, but not really, when Monster Hunter 3 and GoldenEye is bundling it as an option (and other games in JP), Nintendo would be downright lying if they say Classic control is strictly for VC.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

No reason this thread should be on page 2!!!!!

Ever.

As far as quality comparisons to the other Donkey Kong Country games are concerned, this is light years better in level creation than the first one and more fun than the second one.

It's so cool to know that the vine traversing aspect simply revitalized this series this much.

And while I hate them at times, the mine cart levels are untouchable.

Any of you guys really like the rocket barrel levels as much as I do????

So simple, so frustrating at times but so epic in presentaion and the sense of drama.