Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!

I hate the barrel jetpack sequences :|. Hate. I don't remember struggling with mine carts in the original either. I'm at 5-1 and I've had to Super Kong 3 levels. Why can't Nintendo hit MY difficulty level. I don't need Epic Yarn easy, but DKCR is testing my thumbs.

I blame the controller. Hands are too big to comfortably use the Wiimote, feels too disembodied for the Nunchuk. If this game wasn't so much fun I wouldn't be angry.
 
Phaethon0017 said:
I hate the barrel jetpack sequences :|. Hate. I don't remember struggling with mine carts in the original either. I'm at 5-1 and I've had to Super Kong 3 levels. Why can't Nintendo hit MY difficulty level. I don't need Epic Yarn easy, but DKCR is testing my thumbs.

I blame the controller. Hands are too big to comfortably use the Wiimote, feels too disembodied for the Nunchuk. If this game wasn't so much fun I wouldn't be angry.
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2d6ntww.jpg
 
This has far too much trial and error for my liking, something Mario games seldom need. Some won't mind that, but for me it's sapping my enjoyment far more than, say, Epic Mickey's camera / fetch quests or GT5s ridiculously inconsistent visuals have been. I think Edge got the score bang on, although for different reasons - it's on often excellent game with many enjoyable moments, but...
 
Okay, World 5 was good. For the first time since the first world, I was enjoying the music too.

TheDrowningMan said:
This has far too much trial and error for my liking, something Mario games seldom need. Some won't mind that, but for me it's sapping my enjoyment far more than, say, Epic Mickey's camera / fetch quests or GT5s ridiculously inconsistent visuals have been. I think Edge got the score bang on, although for different reasons - it's on often excellent game with many enjoyable moments, but...
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Same. For me, the controls are contributing a lot to the trial-and-error aspect too. The last 9 levels were pretty good, but this game doesn't deserve the comparisons to SMG and especially NSMBW.
 
I was playing some of the levels today, and was having particularly good rhythm (this game was especially well designed for speed runs) when my roommate commented "This game looks like something that the people who made Little Big Planet would do."

I can't tell you how much I wanted to give him a lesson on game design and why it really didn't look like that (maybe with the physics)...

He also said it looked like a mix between LBP and "that running game" (Bit.Trip), which I thought was sort of true if you keep chugging through the levels at maximum speed.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
Absolutely. Listen to this then listen to this.

Actually, on closer inspection, it's probably closer to this.
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It is the exact repetition of sounds and flow as Sanctuary Fortress. This is their way of showing their influence from the Prime trilogies, as a tribute. Or a hint to a future game in development? Or something else. Wild guess.
 
AniHawk said:
Okay, World 5 was good. For the first time since the first world, I was enjoying the music too.



Same. For me, the controls are contributing a lot to the trial-and-error aspect too. The last 9 levels were pretty good, but this game doesn't deserve the comparisons to SMG and especially NSMBW.
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I have to disagree here. I've only played through the first couple worlds but I'm liking it better than NSMBW.
 
Man, some of these K stages are brutal! But I finally managed and did them all!

So I’m up to the Golden Temple...which is not exactly what I was expecting. :lol

And DKCR is better than NSMBW in every single way. Sorry, it's not even close.
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
And DKCR is better than NSMBW in every single way. Sorry, it's not even close.
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I agree that DKCR is a better game. Aside from platforming (level design), controls, and multiplayer, of course.
 
I don't think a comparison between both games is really needed. Yes they're both 2D Nintendo platformers but they set out to do considerably different things. NSMBW goes for a much simpler, more accessible experience that is easy to play but challenging to master. Donkey Kong introduces complexity from the very beginning and only continues to ramp it up from there. The gamer gamer will likely appreciate Returns' complexity more, but many will prefer the simple 'everyone can play and have ball' nature of NSMBW.

It doesn't really matter though because they're both fantastic and prime examples of how such an old genre can still remain the pinnacle of gaming in the modern age.
 
This game definitely has originality and the element of surprise over NSMBW, which has air tight design but is very thematically conservative. On the other hand, my only real gripes with DKCR so far have to do with the controls, which is an area where I think NSMBW has the edge. DKCR makes the mistake of unnecessarily trying to cram too many actions into too few control inputs (a problem Other M suffers as well, also unnecessarily), and some moves lag as you wait for the last animation to finish. Honestly though, I'm just glad that Nintendo is delivering high caliber side scrolling platformers this generation. I wish they'd extend this sort of retro approach to some adventure games now. *cough*metroid*cough*zelda*cough*cough*
 
GrotesqueBeauty said:
This game definitely has originality and the element of surprise over NSMBW, which has air tight design but is very thematically conservative. On the other hand, my only real gripes with DKCR so far have to do with the controls, which is an area where I think NSMBW has the edge. DKCR makes the mistake of unnecessarily trying to cram too many actions into too few control inputs (a problem Other M suffers as well, also unnecessarily), and some moves lag as you wait for the last animation to finish. Honestly though, I'm just glad that Nintendo is delivering high caliber side scrolling platformers this generation. I wish they'd extend this sort of retro approach to some adventure games now. *cough*metroid*cough*zelda*cough*cough*
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hear, hear
 
Improvements to the controls:

-No shaking the controller to roll, pound the ground or blow air (the fuck Miyamoto, seriously).
-Grabbing onto a vine or rope is automatic. I really can't believe I have to say this. There's no reason the player should have to push a button to cling on.
-Holding the jump button gives you the extra boost off enemies as long as it's still held down. Press it again if you have Diddy, and then you'll hover. Seriously, this one feels like someone there didn't even play the game.

Those are the three things bugging the crap out of me right now, and I can say that out of all of my deaths, at least half have been due to shitty control decisions.

Instead, I would add one or two moves to DK's repertoire. A wall jump would be nice- he had that in DKJB. It would create opportunities where the level designers could make levels more vertical instead of just side-to-side. I think increasing DK's move set in that way would benefit the game much more than the other stuff. I mean, it's a platformer. Blowing air and pounding the ground hasn't led to many interesting situations (bouncy caged thing in the caves and that's pretty much it).
 
but if DK automatically grabbed vines then you couldn't comedically get him to stretch for the vine, miss and fall to his death quite as convincingly. That's worth at least 10 lives worth of stress.
 
Nobody will disagree with your first complaint, but the other two I absolutely don't get. Especially holding a button to make DK grab something feels absolutely natural as it is.
 
GrotesqueBeauty said:
This game definitely has originality and the element of surprise over NSMBW, which has air tight design but is very thematically conservative. On the other hand, my only real gripes with DKCR so far have to do with the controls, which is an area where I think NSMBW has the edge. DKCR makes the mistake of unnecessarily trying to cram too many actions into too few control inputs (a problem Other M suffers as well, also unnecessarily), and some moves lag as you wait for the last animation to finish. Honestly though, I'm just glad that Nintendo is delivering high caliber side scrolling platformers this generation. I wish they'd extend this sort of retro approach to some adventure games now. *cough*metroid*cough*zelda*cough*cough*
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I was under the impression that GAF felt the opposite about Zelda? That it was being held back by established mechanics and design without advancing?

By the way, did someone just diss the ground pound? That shit is amazing. I thought it was implemented beautifully and feels terrific. Blowing air, though, definitely feels tacked on.
 
I feel like a wall-jump would take away the feeling of reward you get for ascending up a level. I like that you really have to earn a series of difficult jumps. There is a real skill to timing the high-jumps and getting somewhere most people won't get to that wouldn't read nearly as well on screen if the player could move upwards with something like a wall-jump.

It's the little things like that that really sell the secret areas in this game to me. They don't feel as forced because when you find them they're usually in a thematically consistent place (a cracked wall or behind some leaves, which become very readable over time) and they're placed in such a way that actually getting to that part of the screen is a reward, which is an art that most people just don't bother with anymore. Whether the secret is up in the top-right corner or below a walkway, just visible in the camera's shot, it just feels so nice to finally get somewhere and, as an added bonus, something.
 
Rez said:
but if DK automatically grabbed vines then you couldn't comedically get him to stretch for the vine, miss and fall to his death quite as convincingly. That's worth at least 10 lives worth of stress.
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I assume he'd still be able to grab things like barrels so the animation would be there, and you could still miss the vine and make it look like he's trying to grab it, instead of having bad controls.
 
The grab button grabs things. It seems like a pretty conservative choice.
 
Rez said:
I feel like a wall-jump would take away the feeling of reward you get for ascending up a level. I like that you really have to earn a series of difficult jumps. There is a real skill to timing the high-jumps and getting somewhere most people won't get to that wouldn't read nearly as well on screen if the player could move upwards with something like a wall-jump.

It's the little things like that that really sell the secret areas in this game to me. They don't feel as forced because when you find them they're usually in a thematically consistent place (a cracked wall or behind some leaves, which become very readable over time) and they're placed in such a way that actually getting to that part of the screen is a reward, which is an art that most people just don't bother with anymore. Whether the secret is up in the top-right corner or below a walkway, just visible in the camera's shot, it just feels so nice to finally get somewhere and, as an added bonus, something.
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There needs to be something that switches up the way the levels were designed in this game, because right now, it's calling back way too hard to DKC in particular, when DKC2 very clearly blew past it. I still have four more worlds to go through, so hopefully I get to see some more vertical stuff (read: variety), but I'm not holding my breath. World 5 was a step in the right direction though, certainly.
 
AniHawk said:
Improvements to the controls:

-No shaking the controller to roll, pound the ground or blow air (the fuck Miyamoto, seriously).
-Grabbing onto a vine or rope is automatic. I really can't believe I have to say this. There's no reason the player should have to push a button to cling on.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with these two ones, the movements are very tactile, the blow move kinda sucks and is useless I give you that. But shaking for the roll is pretty neat , shaking the wiimote forward kinda feels like throwing my own body forward to make a roll, it's also a pretty neat way to prevent you from rolling like crazy. And pounding the ground is fun. I think these move give a more visceral feel to the game, it gives a more bestial feel to the game, which is good since you're controlling a gorilla.

As of the grab button, I love it too, it reminds me of SotC, you have to hold stuff, just like DK. Again it contributes to this tactile feel. That said all of this really works with the wiimote/nunchuk setting. I'm very confused about the sideway wiimote setup, it's clear that the game was designed with the nunchuk setup in mind. Maybe you're playing with the wiimote only?

I really love the way you have to time the jump button to make effective rebound, it's very accurate and in the original DKC, it was sometime confusing with the hover move of Dixxy. And it's another contribution to the uniqueness of the feeling of DKCR. The only thing about the controls I would have changed would be to had a physic engine a la Little Big Planet. There is momentum when you're jumping from a cart, but not when you're on a moving platform. It was very fun in LBP, and it could have been awesome to see what Nintendo could have done with that.
 
Rez said:
The grab button grabs things. It seems like a pretty conservative choice.
Click to expand...

The grab button grabs things because the grab button used to be the action button. And the action button used to let DK roll. Now that the action button is the grab button (because rolling = shaking), it had to do more than just grab barrels (which, for better or for worse, aren't plentiful), so now we're forced to do an awkward step.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I was under the impression that GAF felt the opposite about Zelda? That it was being held back by established mechanics and design without advancing?

By the way, did someone just diss the ground pound? That shit is amazing. I thought it was implemented beautifully and feels terrific. Blowing air, though, definitely feels tacked on.
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I don't think GAF collectively feels any one particular way about Zelda. I actually find it obnoxious that you can't say anything about the series without someone extrapolating all sorts of bullshit about what you must think about other aspects of it (and consequently arguing more against their own imagination than any real point that's been made).

Personally, in some ways I think the Zelda franchise clings to dated ideas, and in other ways it doesn't pay enough dues to certain (still relevant) fundamentals that are better represented in the old games. It's a lot more nuanced than old=bad, new=good or vice versa.
 
MindCollizion said:
It is the exact repetition of sounds and flow as Sanctuary Fortress. This is their way of showing their influence from the Prime trilogies, as a tribute.
Click to expand...
Just because a composer's style is noticeable in two completely different creations, one of it is a tribute? Come-on!
 
KevinCow said:
On the one hand, I'd like to see Retro do a DKCR2 because from the Iwata Asks, it sounds like they really got into the groove after E3. If they only really got into the groove that close to launch, imagine how good a full game with the knowledge of the entire first game's development under their belt will be.

On the other hand, I don't want them to be stuck on one series for the next five or so years again. And seeing how different DKCR is from the Metroid Prime games in pretty much every single way yet they still manage to both be great, they're clearly extremely versatile. I'd love to see what else they can do.
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I'd love them to reimagine Fzero. Fzero itself is fun, but the characters and stuff are pretty cheesey.
 
I got this the other day, and I've played up to the second level of the second world (Beach), both with a friend, and then again by myself.

I'm really liking it, but so far I still prefer the DKC games. But it's OK, as I never expected to prefer this, as the DKC games (DKC2 in particular) are some of my favourite games of all time.

I really wish that Kremlings were in this, as it doesn't feel like DKC game without them, but the gameplay is rock solid.

I think DKC2 still has the best design in terms of level layout, and hidden secrets (bonus barrels and DK coins), but I'm really enjoying finding the puzzle pieces in DKCR, and I'm looking forward to doing some Time Trial runs.

Overall, I think this is a much better game than New Super Mario Bros. Wii (and DS), which I found to be uninspired on account of them taking zero risks and not really introducing anything new.
 
the thoroughbred said:
I have just watched and read a few reviews. And everyone compares it to either Donkey Kong Country on the SNES or "the Rare offering".

Firstly is this just to fill in space and time. Because to me it seems irrelevant. It isn't exactly a sequel or anything. It's just a platformer. You measure it by it's controls and level design.

Secondly, if they must make a comparison why is there no mention of Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. Just because it doesn't follow the "country" nomenclature it was still a great game in the series. To me it looks more like DK:JB than any other Donkey Kong game.

I think Nintendo realised that using a few old school words in the titles has a nostalgic impact which they over-sighted before. So it's not a really a revival of a series, since it was here on the Gamecube anyway. It's like the game never existed, despite a re-release recently.
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Because it's the first direct sequel to the DKC franchise in years, Jungle Beat isn't.
 
these comments have been done to death, but here's a list of what I'd like changed in a possible (almost certain) sequel:

-Better control scheme (more options, CC-support)

-Button roll + grab and run with the same button. That mechanic was perfect in DKC and on, I have no idea why they felt the need to fiddle with it in the first place.

-Kremlings and K.Rool. Not only Kremlings, but Neckies, Mini Neckies, Gnawties and other such amusing baddies that make funny screams when you kill them. As cartoony as DKCR is, it's missing a lot of the whimsy from the original series.

-Sarcastic, disparaging Cranky comments. They turned him into a wimp in this game.

-More animal friends. Unlike Sonic games, in DKC they are a good thing. The flying Squawks levels in DKC2 were the shit.

-Improve DK's physics, he's feels too slippery is he is now.

-Better, more memorable music.

- I'd like Donkey and Diddy not to have such cartoony voices. The monkey sounds they made in DKC were perfect.

- More variety in the bonus levels.

- Water levels with Enguarde.

- Snow levels are a must. It's not a DKC game without snow levels.

- More barrel-blasting-oriented levels. They really nailed it in the first world, and it's almost like they forgot about them later on.

- Scale back the roll-jump. They made it so powerful in this game that it's almost unusable in most situations.


If they make even half of these changes, I'd be one happy customer. I'm on the Factory world right now and loving this game, but it could be even greater!
 
Glad somebody mentioned the trial and error, ESPECIALLY on the minecart levels and the rocket barrels. I hate the mind set of learn by dying in bideo games. There were far too many times something would come flying out and kill you especially on the two types mentioned.
 
agrajag said:
-Sarcastic, disparaging Cranky comments. They turned him into a wimp in this game.
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On top of that, I was disappointed that Cranky didn't completely ignore the fourth wall and tell DK that he may have been a video game hero back in the day but he's gotten old and will never regain his glory, then follow it up with a tirade about how these 3D graphics are completely unnecessary and 16 bits were more than enough back in the day.
 
KevinCow said:
On the other hand, I don't want them to be stuck on one series for the next five or so years again. And seeing how different DKCR is from the Metroid Prime games in pretty much every single way yet they still manage to both be great, they're clearly extremely versatile. I'd love to see what else they can do.
Click to expand...
Let them do Zelda so Aonuma can stop pretending that he still cares about the franchise. Let the man make his own cooking game or something else.
 
The bonus levels are absolutely fantastic. I like how frantic they are while they are juuuust in time for pointing you in the right direction for your next jump.
 
agrajag said:
- More barrel-blasting-oriented levels. They really nailed it in the first world, and it's almost like they forgot about them later on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, barrels were definintely underutilized in the second half of the game.
 
But shaking for the roll is pretty neat , shaking the wiimote forward kinda feels like throwing my own body forward to make a roll, it's also a pretty neat way to prevent you from rolling like crazy.
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It prevents, you mean, because it's so unintuitive? That shouldn't be seen as a strength.
 
Isn't there a way that Nintendo can give Retro more funding so they can increase staff and work on multiple projects like RARE did back in the day??

I feel the same way as others in this thread that I want a sequel but I also dont want retro tied down for a big chunk of the decade like last time with Metroid.
 
Anticitizen One said:
Isn't there a way that Nintendo can give Retro more funding so they can increase staff and work on multiple projects like RARE did back in the day??

I feel the same way as others in this thread that I want a sequel but I also dont want retro tied down for a big chunk of the decade like last time with Metroid.
Click to expand...
i dont think nintendo has that many funds.
 
Anticitizen One said:
Isn't there a way that Nintendo can give Retro more funding so they can increase staff and work on multiple projects like RARE did back in the day??

I feel the same way as others in this thread that I want a sequel but I also dont want retro tied down for a big chunk of the decade like last time with Metroid.
Click to expand...


Increasing staff just to make more games means quality will begin to suffer.
We may not get a lot from Retro, but what we do get is of the highest quality because they are a great group of people that just focus on one major project at a time.
 
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