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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion

D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Übermatik;175958913 said:
Official rant time, because I'm in the mood.

Just had a game as Zeus, with a 4 stack. I have a 75% (or there abouts) win rate with this hero, and he's most most played with 130 games played. I'm sat at about 3.4K MMR, and a terrible just-above-50% winrate. Feel these stats are important at least for some perspective, and I won't lie about my skill.

In this particular match, things started off well. My team mates picked Dazzle, Gyro, Mirana and Phoenix. Not a bad line up, and we managed to make space on the map for our carry to farm. I wasn't playing my best Zeus, but I was far from bad. Now the game progresses okay, but unfortunately due to some poor positioning from our team, a few kills were taken against us. As I studied the Phoenix play, I noticed he would use Fire Spirits every time they came off cool down. He'd spam the creep wave, and then move off. Unfortunately, this meant that on occasions he was lacking in mana/the spell was on cool down for engagements, meaning his egg rarely survived. Now, I'm not one to criticise 'bad plays' if the person is trying their best, so I'll leave that there. However. Although the other three on the team were quiet, I began to notice Phoenix's knack for spamming pings and drawing on the map. You might be wondering why I'm writing a paragraph to outline this behaviour, but it's because it leads me to this next bit. I had farmed well. My unconventional build of Arcanes > Aghs > Refresher was up, and I was trying my best to push out lanes. Phoenix was fairly well farmed with an Aghanim's and Urn. And then the pings returned. Ping Ping Ping Ping Ping. Not a great way to convey your message, but it turned out he wanted the lane farm. >1056 gold for Halberd. >20155 gold for Halberd. And so on... I think he was trying to make a point. But this is it - he got so hung up on wanting every single last hit (despite our dire circumstances of having every single lane pushed) that he began to grief so hard. Ignoring his 4 for 12 K/D and questionable play, he began using his ult on me to stop us both getting to team fights, he put his items on the floor and threatened to deny them, and kept up the pinging as before.

SO. What's the point in this rant? People are like this. Come across them a lot. Well here's the thing - remember how he was in a 4 stack? Well this guy reminded me of someone I used to play with too. He was almost like a carbon copy. Turns out we got so sick of his shit as a team that we weeded him out of our games, because he masked his poor plays and terrible attitude by flaming us and any poor solo player in our team.

People. If you have friends like this or queue with them, let them go. He hands down lost us that game in the end. He was so caught up on driving his point home that he lost sight of the match, and I could just tell his embarrassing behaviour was an elephant in the room for his team mates. Brattish, immature behaviour like that ruins the game. Communicate properly, don't spam pings like a neanderthal.

Okay, I'm done.
Click to expand...

I usually unfriend anyone on my FL who ever griefs me in a match. The first offense, usually. And I let them know why. It's fine if you play poorly in my stack; we'll all fail from time to time. What will not happen in my stack is (a) flaming teammates or (b) griefing the team by throwing the game or being uncooperative. I have a waiting list on my friends list; nobody is that special that they get to take up a slot while being dickheads unless they're RL family. Only certain people on GAF are immune and even then "immunity" consists of one, maybe two flaming sessions before I simply become disinclined to play with them. I've never griefed, and two bear will tell you that the most extreme I'll get with flaming is "yo that was not the play" or "we need to fucking itemize better". Flaming and griefing are some of the most counter-productive, passive-aggressive, anti-social shit I've ever encountered in gaming.

Though I can understand frustration as it is a competitive endeavor (and competitiveness gets people's feelings flowing), and I'd venture to say that many have clearly never played any sports or had any other organized athletic experiences outside of gym class and as a result they've never learned how to deal with or work with people when the pressure is on. The results are thus.
 
K

KingKong

Member
t0rment said:
that wr hair is awful
facepalm.gif
Click to expand...

eyepatch is clearly the best hair in the game
 
G

G-Unit

Member
You know, I was just thinking... 109 calling out my dota knowlege(more like the lack off). I admire when you guys talk about stuff I don't even know its there. Wish I had that lvl of interest in the game. But I don't. I consider myself an extremely competitive person, but I kinda play game by game. Maybe my invoker could be a bit better if i practice with bots, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe i'm not into dota per se, but in an environment where i can still have my moments despide my paralysis. There is this pleasure in carrying a game where no one knows my condition and still play at their lvl.

Anyway, the hindsight i get for some of your comments, is awesome, and even thought 109 has been a dick to me lol, I admire his skills and knowledge. So whenever you see I make the most retarded dota assumptions, like when I thought CK was ulti was bugged LOL. It just means someone just beat the hell out of me and they suck because i didn't beat them, and my lack of research.

You know, I've been thinking on making a post about playing dota with a disability. But I wonder if there is any interest in it. I mean, maybe its for the better that people just don't know about it. But then I think it would make for a good laugh why I type so bad during the games. Yeah you've seen it :D.

Anyways, I wonder if I ever gonna get to 4000mmr, right know I feel I won't because the improvemnts I see in my mind, can't be translated so easily to my body movement.

Hope no one finds this depressing. I'm glad PCMasterRace gave me a chance to enjoy videogames.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
On flaming: I play with too many flaming assholes on solo ranked to ever accept that kind of behaviour from someone I'm stacking with, thankfully that hasn't happened before. If I can't even relax when I'm stacking then I might've quit playing Dota a year ago.
Dreams-Visions said:
Though I can understand frustration as it is a competitive endeavor (and competitiveness gets people's feelings flowing), and I'd venture to say that many have clearly never played any sports or had any other organized athletic experiences outside of gym class and as a result they've never learned how to deal with or work with people when the pressure is on. The results are thus.
Click to expand...
Man that's so true, I think most of the flamers wouldn't even think about doing that shit if they've had that kind of experience. I don't understand how some think shitting on someone and destroying their morale is supposed to make them play better in any way, besides the fact that you are an AWFUL friend if you do that to a friend.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
Gentle Rodriguez said:
On flaming: I play with too many flaming assholes on solo ranked to ever accept that kind of behaviour from someone I'm stacking with, thankfully that hasn't happened before. If I can't even relax when I'm stacking then I might've quit playing Dota a year ago.
Click to expand...

ive gotten better recently
 
G

gai_shain

Member
The only stack I play with regularly has alot of the stuff you guys dont want and its still the most fun I have playing dota.
Even though its more talking shit to each other instead of the flaming you guys are talking about I guess.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
gai_shain said:
The only stack I play with regularly has alot of the stuff you guys dont want and its still the most fun I have playing dota.
Even though its more talking shit to each other instead of the flaming you guys are talking about I guess.
Click to expand...
Yeah those 2 things are super different, context matters obviously. As long as you're not hurting people and making them feel bad about themselves it's fine imo.
 
B

bounchfx

Member
great post DV

I will never understand why some people resort to acting like complete children, that is if they even realize what they are doing is incredibly selfish and destructive not only to the game and their team, but to themselves. I've had the displeasure of playing with a few idiots like that in the past and it always ruins the game.
 
shira

shira

Member
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
G-Unit said:
Anyways, I wonder if I ever gonna get to 4000mmr, right know I feel I won't because the improvemnts I see in my mind, can't be translated so easily to my body movement.
Click to expand...

You'll get there, G-unit, one day.

No one wakes up to find themselves 4k MMR all of a sudden, except Sumail. I think he was born into 5k.
 
H

harSon

Banned
how does nyx's scepter even work

was in a game a while back where the trilane somehow let a solo off lane nyx a 13-15 min scepter, and he proceeded to wreck house.
 
R

Red UFO

Member
At what MMR do you stop seeing people picking kunkka and trying desperately to build two daedalus' and ending the game with half a crystalis
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
inkls said:
source?
Click to expand...
Reality. I'm mainly talking about unranked. I think its main goal is to prevent streaks and/or large, partially broken but still consistent strings of green (wins) or red (losses). You can have higher or lower than 50%.

Let me put it this way. It won't (or at least shouldn't) send you 20 easy peasy cheesy I can pick whatever I pleasy games in a row where you get carried beyond all reason and have to contribute nothing - the games where you could sit in a corner, twiddle your thumbs and still manage to win handily. It sends me those kinds of games...... When I have a streak of losses (some of those may also be forced, some may be my bad decisions). It doesn't want me to quit playing forever. Right?

It will also make games practically unwinnable if you gather too many victories at one time. People do not suddenly have a bad day and go 3/22/5 in 20 minutes over and over and over. It's throwing those poor folks out of their league, no pun intended. They can perform well when they're in their bracket. Otherwise they get outpicked and outplayed and cost you a game. Usually there's no more than 2 awful players. All these factors are a degree of chance, but there's simply no way MM can replicate these types of games with such precision beyond rigging them heavily. It statistically cannot be chance every time these streaks are shattered.

You see these games on pro streams anyway. Pros aren't due a win every game because of who or what they are, but they are held back more in some games than others (probably a greater number of games than any of us are used to). Yet there must also be - subjectively - people playing at their skill or above. It's just not a large pool.

Others think the game evenly matches you against the opposing team who also have two bad players. Yes and no. If we're going by scores, this factor does not show up consistently. Frankly the automated systems are too obvious in any attempt to make a game appear fair, i.e. they don't try much at all. They could very well be overcompensating for minutiae/errata by creating a stomp on one side to ensure the desired result.

People are welcome to refute this but I want to see a bunch of 30-long (or let's be realistic: 20?) win streaks first. Show me all this picking and playing which dominates even the worst of games consistently.
 
S

Sgt.Pepper

Banned
LucidMomentum said:
Plus who is going to push up river with the threat of mines?

If you get ganked, you can just suicide unless you get chain stunned so you come back even faster.
Click to expand...

Fuck techies. LMAO WORST BASE DAMAGE IN THE GAME LET'S KILL OH SHIT THIS PLACE MIGHT BE FULL OF MINES NP NP WE GOT RANGED STUNS OH HE WENT INTO THE FOG AND EXPLODED SO WE WASTED OUR TIME AND MANA



yolo.gif
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Yasae said:
It doesn't go by winrate, but forced losses and silver platter wins are absolutely real.
Click to expand...

Yasae said:
Reality. I'm mainly talking about unranked. I think its main goal is to prevent streaks and/or large, partially broken but still consistent strings of green (wins) or red (losses). You can have higher or lower than 50%.

Let me put it this way. It won't (or at least shouldn't) send you 20 easy peasy cheesy I can pick whatever I pleasy games in a row where you get carried beyond all reason and have to contribute nothing - the games where you could sit in a corner, twiddle your thumbs and still manage to win handily. It sends me those kinds of games...... When I have a streak of losses (some of those may also be forced, some may be my bad decisions). It doesn't want me to quit playing forever. Right?

It will also make games practically unwinnable if you gather too many victories at one time. People do not suddenly have a bad day and go 3/22/5 in 20 minutes over and over and over. It's throwing those poor folks out of their league, no pun intended. They can perform well when they're in their bracket. Otherwise they get outpicked and outplayed and cost you a game. Usually there's no more than 2 awful players. All these factors are a degree of chance, but there's simply no way MM can replicate these types of games with such precision beyond rigging them heavily. It statistically cannot be chance every time these streaks are shattered.

You see these games on pro streams anyway. Pros aren't due a win every game because of who or what they are, but they are held back more in some games than others (probably a greater number of games than any of us are used to). Yet there must also be - subjectively - people playing at their skill or above. It's just not a large pool.

Others think the game evenly matches you against the opposing team who also have two bad players. Yes and no. If we're going by scores, this factor does not show up consistently. Frankly the automated systems are too obvious in any attempt to make a game appear fair, i.e. they don't try much at all. They could very well be overcompensating for minutiae/errata by creating a stomp on one side to ensure the desired result.

People are welcome to refute this but I want to see a bunch of 30-long (or let's be realistic: 20?) win streaks first. Show me all this picking and playing which dominates even the worst of games consistently.
Click to expand...

The fuck is this? You aren't even making any rational sense, let alone you have zero proof of this. If you're winning games and losing some games, then chances are you are at the right MMR. There is no such thing as a "forced loss". The matchmaking algorithm may put you up against people that you might be less likely to beat, but this is few and far and even when it does happen, the amount of MMR you gain or lose is adjusted accordingly. This happens a lot in the higher MMRs where there are fewer players (I'm talking 6k, 7k, etc.).

Some games are stompy by nature, that just happens for whatever reason, not the game "deciding to hand you a silver platter game". Maybe you're playing really well, maybe one of your teammates is, maybe your whole team is just completely in sync and the other team has already fallen apart due to infighting over First Blood, who knows really. The matchmaking algorithm has no way to predict these factors, only the facts of what it has, mainly MMR, wins/losses, etc.
 
I

inkls

Member
Yasae said:
I suppose you can't tell the difference.
Click to expand...

nope, the reality in which hitler is a cute magical girl is the same in which the game forces losses on you and in which pigs can fly. All three with the same amount of backing provided for each.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's okay. One day when you're 4k you'll understand it's just you. It's always been just you.

Or you'll never understand. Some people don't get it after a decade of this shitty ass game.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
I mean, doesn't the fact that a 5k player on a new account can have a 100% winrate pretty much until the mid 4ks just flat out disprove all the forced 50 nonsense?

Or am I missing some sort of elaborate meta-troll? Is it a League-related joke like ELO hell?
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The forced fifty got them in the end.

You'll never escape.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
call_kotaku said:
I mean, doesn't the fact that a 5k player on a new account can have a 100% winrate pretty much until the mid 4ks just flat out disprove all the forced 50 nonsense?

Or am I missing some sort of elaborate meta-troll? Is it a League-related joke like ELO hell?
Click to expand...

Given that people think like this in a serious fashion, I would not be surprised if it's serious. I would think just taking a look at your own Dotabuff disproves the "Forced Fiddy"
 
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