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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion
- Thread starter TUSR
- Start date
Shuggananas
Banned
Can't say I really understand why Brewmaster fell off so hard, hero still seems ok to me.
Burst oriented meta, brew doesn't burst at all, and is susceptible to burst
Not a surprise to me
One Punch-Man
Banned
Burst? He's one of the tankier heroes..plus he has ultimate to use when he's like 2hp
Shuggananas
Banned
He's quite tanky but hardly buys tanky items though, mostly utility. If you catch him before he can ult and burst him from 100 to 0 he's useless as shit, he relies on getting his ult off but it's countered a bit too easily I feel
Just lina can burn 75% of his HP with her classic combo (euls LSA slave laguna), add one or two nukes on top of that and bye bye panda
TerryLee81
Member
Lol anyone watching XCTN vs IDEAL?
Run cow! Run cow! He's dead... No, he lives!!
Run cow! Run cow! He's dead... No, he lives!!
Imp the Dimp
Member
The amount of unpickworthy heroes has never been this high ever since I'm into Dota. Still enjoying this patch more than the previous ones though with 6.81 being my favourite.
Only after we get a Daddy Ryu skin for Dark Seer.
Unless you mean you wanna see Sniper waddling around in a bikini in which case bring it on.
Monochromaticx
Member
I can connect to chat online but my phone, PC and MBP all refuse to connect to Steam?
Pureauthor
Member
6.85
where
where
My 6.85 predictions:
- Omni will be 1st round pick material
- Balanar will make a comeback as a core
- DK will be a top tier mid pick (sadly)
- Veno and Oracle will still be the worst heroes in the game
- WR will be the new Lesh (this is easy to predict
edit: I also think Riki will get some ridiculous buff
- Omni will be 1st round pick material
- Balanar will make a comeback as a core
- DK will be a top tier mid pick (sadly)
- Veno and Oracle will still be the worst heroes in the game
- WR will be the new Lesh (this is easy to predict
edit: I also think Riki will get some ridiculous buff
Shuggananas
Banned
17/09, 6.85 + reborn
omni won't be first pick lol
veno's already good, riki will forever be shit in pro play
WR is fine
Wow this was stevewinwood's alt?
also how will omni be first pick if pl's one of the t1-t2 picks with diffusal which screws omni over. Same thing with Riki if he does get buffed.
Imp the Dimp
Member
He won't buff Omni I think. His pub winrate is super good and apparently, IF has a look at that as well as history as shown. So unless a meta change happens that favours him, I don't see that being a thing. I mean, technically, he should've excelled in 6.83c's physical damage meta and still didn't. It's basically about how to not make him a wortless laner that can't zone for shit, can't gank, can't pressure the safe lane when he's in the off lane and so forth. He has so many weakness that low MMR games are incapable of abusing but pros have a field day with.
Shuggananas
Banned
Make his aura "transferable" to an ally as in you cast it on the ally and he gets the aura instead of you for some time
Omni has no business being close to other heroes, the spell hardly makes sense except for pubstomping
Omni has no business being close to other heroes, the spell hardly makes sense except for pubstomping
Imp the Dimp
Member
Making him mechanically harder would pretty surely decrease his pub winrate almost regardless of whether that new skill is better or not. If it's an active, his win% goes down, mark my words. All the top winrate heroes are mechanically simple. Average MMR is still 2250 for all we know.
Also good look with BS nerfs. I think he's getting a slap on t...he'll get away with very minor alterations to his skills.
Shuggananas
Banned
Luna needs a slap on the butt
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
diablo 3 is cute but there still doesn't seem to be any point to playing anything other than disintegrating wizard
also i still can't connect to steam
I have some messages ready for you once you return.
Which heroes are quote unquote unpickable? Like I said I've been going through unpopular heroes and trying to make them work lately. I've had a ridiculous amount of success with Terrorblade.
I think pick rates have been more lopsided this patch than in a lot of previous patches. It's been a while since we had multiple 100% pick/ban heroes. Even Razor was only 60-70% in 6.84.
You'll have to go back to Batrider to find Lesh and Gyro level pb rates.
Patch is still fun though, so no one cares.
You'll have to go back to Batrider to find Lesh and Gyro level pb rates.
Patch is still fun though, so no one cares.
Imp the Dimp
Member
List is too long honestly.
Shuggananas
Banned
TB is great if people don't realize they need to deal with you and do it
If you snowball just one bit you can get super early one or two lanes of rax, this is devastating
See him as a physical damage pugna
If you snowball just one bit you can get super early one or two lanes of rax, this is devastating
See him as a physical damage pugna
I don't think Terroblade is as weak as people say. Dealing with a splitpushing terrorblade is a pain, not as bad as Naga, but close to it. He can still melt towers and With metamorphosis and the % dmg of Conjure Image he can be more liberal in his choice of items compared to other illusion heroes.
Also I think people seriously underestimate how strong reflection is. I think maxing it 1st or 2nd makes TB much stronger than if you had put points in his conjure image which doesn't had as much per level compared to it.
TB illusions early on will get destroyed in teamfights super quickly so I'd argue that more points in Reflection is gonna have a greater impact if you take part in fights. (Also 5.5 sec of 60% attack and movement speed slow + the copy does 100% dmg to the hero its cast on?)
Lycan was also a 100% pb ban for a while wasn't he?
Pub win rates mean very little. You literally have all the players in the world, with their various proficiency levels, contributing to the ranking, and there's a ton of heroes that can be exploited if the enemy doesn't have any hard counter or teamwork (i made my case recently with Specter on this subject). Omni is one of those heroes.
I'd love if it were possible to see winrate per MMR "division" on dotabuff. I'd bet most of the top heroes on the current table would have <50% winrate in the 6k+ (or even 5k+) MMR division. Omni, Abbadon, Specter, Warlock, Centaur, etc certainly would.
Shuggananas
Banned
It's not like he can farm it in the first place
Omni winrate actually went up the more you went up in mmr iirc.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Not picked =/= unpickable
A lot of the heroes that haven't been picked aren't even weak, it's just that there's several heroes that are so strong that there's no reason to even look at the unpopular ones. That and the meta just isn't favorable to a lot of heroes right now.
Did you do Oracle yet?
http://dotamax.com/hero/rate/?skill=all
You can look at dotamax for winrates between normal, high and very high skill levels.
Interestingly enough, Omni's highest winrate is at High skill with 59.74% while his winrate at very high skill is 58.86% according to dotamax.
even though omni adds little to the early laning phase, few supports contribute more to teamfights once they hit 6. early bkb plus heal plus ult means a won teamfight more often than not. Also, unless the team builds multiple diffusals (usually a non-optimal item for many heroes) 12 seconds of magic immunity and 8 seconds of physical immunity is always relevant no matter how long the game goes.
Yeah but ain't still got no lockdown
With his kit, having lockdown would be insane. Not all heroes need lockdown. Dazzle has one unreliable stun that triggers halfway into the slow and most pros opt not to skill it and instead max his heal and shallow grave. And Dazzle was one of the top picks support-wise at TI5.
change his passive to primal roar ez pz
Thank you for this.
Are the Normal, High and Very High levels the same as on dotabuff?
iirc on dotabuff those are <3.1k, >3.1k & <3.7k, >3.7k, so the MMR gap isn't that big...
I also noticed the following:
- On normal: 2.3M games played with a 59.65% wr
- On High: ~400k games played with a 59.74% wr
- On V. High: ~300k games played with 58.86% wr
The disparity between games played on normal and other levels is abysmal. At first glance I'd say the sample size of Normal games is representative, so the wr is reliable, but on the other levels it doesn't seem so. I also believe that if there were another higher level his pick rate would be even lower but the wr would still be more or less the same.
Also, he was played in 3.6M games this month (according to dotamax) and there were ~34M games in total (according to dotabuff's most picked and pick rate numbers), which means he was only present on < 10% of the games (db reports 8% so the numbers between both sites aren't completely equal but they are close enough).
Basically, the hero needs something to become a worthwhile pick at the higher skill level games and I believe he will get it in 6.85.
edit: I just noticed that the games per skill level don't add up to the same value as the total games played but that's dotamax's fault
the thing with omni is, he's good but would you rather take a few seconds of protection for your whole team over something that provides more utility, like ravage or black hole or whatever? it's basically turning a teamfight into a 4.5 v 5, you have to be pretty confident about the rest of your team to make that worthwhile.
Shuggananas
Banned
oh well
we'll see
SecretMoblin
Member
all of that is true of dazzle, though
sometimes a defensive support is worthwhile
sometimes a defensive support is worthwhile
Omni is already such a pain in pubs I'm scared if he ever becomes a top competitive pick
"Major changes"
Omni's dmg output is more reliable I'd say. But yeah Dazzle's ult is really good in teamfights.