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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion
- Thread starter TUSR
- Start date
Just need timely patches to "fix" it. Patches are always great until the meta is "figured out," which arguably it never is, but both pubs and pros fall into some comfortable trends at the end of every patch cycle (usually after TI or a major LAN or two). Regardless if unpopular heroes are viable are not, if you're picking them or not, it's damn tiring loading into every game expecting at least 5-7 of the same heroes you saw last game. Hopefully the major system brings some predictability to dota 2 patching (i.e. 3-4 weeks after every major), because sometimes we'll get a string of patches and it feels amazing (anyone remember 6.75/6.76/6.77 all in the span of 3-5 months????) and other times it just feels so dead for a little too long (think wow expansions but obv. on a much smaller scale).
And like DV said, the deadzone for every patch is usually universally somewhat miserable, but some people tolerate it better than others depending on the patch. This particular patch, idk, I just haven't felt like playing dota at all for quite some time and that's something I probably haven't straight up felt in years. So this particular patch deadzone is on the lower end of the spectrum for me.
Don't get me wrong though, 6.84 was a great patch, and as a baseline it is an amazing patch as it finally fixed all the gold/xp issues that arose in 6.82 after the old system was thrown out the window. Now that many of these mechanics have been overhauled (and hopefully locked down), we can get a patch that focuses more on raw hero balance and gets some guys attuned to the new mechanics and the way the game will probably be for the foreseeable future (which is fight fight fight).
Wok
Member
Yes.
? its -66% for me
yuppppppppp
this is what i see
I hope you are right and it is still updating the EU store page. Otherwise I'll be pissed.
PL and AM are very viable atm
Part of the issue I feel is that kill gold has been inflated so much--both with the straight +10%, then the comeback/bonus element that was added in 6.82 and toned down later, plus the -10% creep gold on top of that to try to mitigate the effect of this inflation (though it doesn't entirely, especially for pure blooded killers like Lina).
So in the end you have these heroes that are very very good at killing other heroes (read: Lina, storm, BS) that get crazy amounts of GPM compared to say a TB or Naga who is doing their thing for 45-55 minutes and still scrape at that 600-750 gpm range with a low kill score. Imo so as a "hard carry" you not only have a laning/early problem, but it even becomes a late issue as well, with these group of heroes being able to keep up with and even overtake some hard carries well into the late game by virtue of their snowballing off of kill gold.
"Hard carry" is a murky term to begin with these days, but yeah, by no means are ALL not viable. AM happens to be very strong because this is a nuker metagame, it's all about dem manapools, nukes, and int boys right now so AM naturally shines. Plus he's got arguably the best escape in the game (both him and PL have great escapes), and mobility for a carry is absolutely essential in this patch where heroes are looking to kill/gank your ass constantly. AM has an easy out from minute 0.
On the other hand, PL is a relatively strong early/mid-game carry that also happens to scale so well into the late game (probably a top5 carry late too). The funny part to me is the current metagame is as anti-PL as possible, lots of AoE to clear/hurt illusions to find the real one, lots of AoE stuns, and a lot of his "counters" are very strong heroes. PL will run a train on any single-target/phys-dps metagame so I honestly feel he's going to get some minor nerfs just by virtue of this (despite the fact that he's not necessarily imba in this patch).
For me, I'd like to see the strength cores return to popularity. Alch, CK, Kunkka, tide, lifestealer, sven, mag (lycan lel), NS, etc... This patch has really really really alienated this particular archetype (the only two popular ones I can thing of are what, clock and ES? I'm problem blanking on a few but you get the point).
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
PL's go fighting builds nowadays(fast drums/bots/diffu) but yeah AM is strong. It's carries that need a lot of time to come online that don't do well, AM typically doesn't need that much time to start contributing.
Gully State
Member
I feel like part of the solution to a diminished hero pool would be to bring random draft to ranked or finally release all draft. I'm surprised random draft still isn't in ranked TBH.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Updated auto-loss heroes in 6.84 top 10 (official):
10. Rubick
9. Batrider
8. Brewmaster
7. Death Prophet
6. Elder Titan
7. Lone Druid
6. Faceless Void
5. Morphling
4. Nature's Prophet
3. Riki
2. Kunkka
1. Alchemist
Don't think I've seen an Alchemist win a game in two patches.
10. Rubick
9. Batrider
8. Brewmaster
7. Death Prophet
6. Elder Titan
7. Lone Druid
6. Faceless Void
5. Morphling
4. Nature's Prophet
3. Riki
2. Kunkka
1. Alchemist
Don't think I've seen an Alchemist win a game in two patches.
well, PL can hold its own in the lane and can fight earlier than most heroes, and AM can come back from behind, just need a lucky mana void and BF, so those are viable, not the entire class of hard carries.
that's it, you are right on, i was playing TB and farming all game in multiple lanes and the other heroes that did nothing but fight all the time were on par or ahead of me in networth. there's no reason to play with them right now, i just do because i'm bored of the brawling in every game.
And killing is great, it makes for a fun metagame, BUT dota is like (ideally) 31 flavors, some heroes are just straight up better killers than other heroes, and that will most likely never change, nor should it. The alternative strats and the heroes that promote them need some more breathing room (i.e. deathball-lycan, dp, ss, veno, etc... split push-furion, LD, TB, etc... blow your load fighters aka long CD's but small windows of insane teamfight-void, brew, enigma, CK, etc...).
GregLombardi
Member
I completely agree, though they do need to make people unable to join games that leave them after 2 minutes. But yeah, the lack of accountability gives the player a chance to experiment and play around, which is absolutely fantastic and needed.
One Punch-Man
Banned
There is never a patch that satisfies everyone. It's why people play dota, never ending
Elitro
Member
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
This game looks pretty cool, I wonder how focused it is on multiplayer though, I'm a lone wolf
Dreams-Visions
Member
i saw one win. but he was carried, so yea.
I randomed and got TA, give me your power so I can win
I like that the official top 10 has 12 slots but whatever...
10. Rubick - nope
9. Batrider - pubs were always a great bat play source right?
8. Brewmaster - nope
7. Death Prophet - yeah but it can work
6. Elder Titan - yeah
7. Lone Druid - nope
6. Faceless Void - lol
5. Morphling - still works
4. Nature's Prophet - still works
3. Riki - did he ever matter outside 2k?
2. Kunkka - still works
1. Alchemist - this is a given for a long time
3/12. not bad.
SilentRacoon
Member
I have never seen necro as a support item tbh, it's an item focused on intensive pushing carries like NP, Lycan, Beastmaster, BM etc. And I would argue that heavy pushing lineups against techies kind of works as a counter to his playstyle.
In my last game I got a Necro on DP and it did wonders alongside my OC to push down lanes without having the constant fear that I could be walking on top of a deathtrap.
Imp the Dimp
Member
10 weren't enough and I hoped nobody notices. Also Void is absolutely fucking garbage and I have ridiculous winrates with him on various accs. He's near useless this patch.
Batrider was always decent in pubs until recently. I used to have a ~5 KDA in over 100 games with him in 2013 and 2014. He's awful now.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/54998164
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/180637124
Batrider was always decent in pubs until recently. I used to have a ~5 KDA in over 100 games with him in 2013 and 2014. He's awful now.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/54998164
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/180637124
buy null talisman
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
con fucking gratis
NotoriousPUG
Member
How is rubick auto loss?
FV is also questionable as auto loss, although I agree he's not particularly good right now.
Rest of the list is on point.
SilentRacoon
Member
Alchemist still gets a lot of picks down here.
Add all random to ranked games then I might be willing to give it a try.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Rubick is a fantastic hero but he has too high a skill floor to be useful for a lot of people on my bracket. Oftentimes, they're just better off picking a Lion who's mechanically easier and requires less skill to do well. I have atrocious winrates when he's on my team.
edit: Wow, looks like he's actually in the bottom fifth of pub winrates in general. Actually didn't expect that.
Only Alchemist game I played this patch I won but I got carried. Finished like 5 kills 6 deaths and 20 assists or some shit. Hero sucks so much 
((
I cringe when I get Rubicks on my team so not really surprised at his low winrate. They all seem to wanna make highlight videos or something and go blink ---> dagon every game while doing their best to take all your farm. It's awful.
((I cringe when I get Rubicks on my team so not really surprised at his low winrate. They all seem to wanna make highlight videos or something and go blink ---> dagon every game while doing their best to take all your farm. It's awful.
I think alch is one of those heroes that hasn't been given much of a chance in both the pro and pub scene, but is still strong tbh. Milk has played him with great success recently, and I had some great games with him at the start of the patch.
He really doesn't feel that bad, in fact, he's one of the few "ricers" that can still snowball off of pure creep farming because of greevil's greed. He can then leverage that creep gold into kills as you get bigger and bigger, faster than everyone else, like in the past for many HC's. That ability is still there for alchemist, while for many other heroes--they farm their little hearts out but still get trampled in gold by that Lina running around pressing R and so are never able to leverage creep gold into kill gold/objectives (which is how many "carries" make up for their lack of early game killing power). That's not feasible for many heroes this patch, but alch is most definitely not one of those. He can be 6 slotted in 30 minutes, and then 8 slotted (moon shard and aghs) by 40.
But anyhow, let's be honest. This is dota. Every hero can "work" aka win games in a pub in every patch. Like someone said earlier, all we really want to see is change. Regardless if the unpopular heroes can be good or not, people just want change. Want a new prom king/queen and some new faces; the old guys need to graduate already.
He really doesn't feel that bad, in fact, he's one of the few "ricers" that can still snowball off of pure creep farming because of greevil's greed. He can then leverage that creep gold into kills as you get bigger and bigger, faster than everyone else, like in the past for many HC's. That ability is still there for alchemist, while for many other heroes--they farm their little hearts out but still get trampled in gold by that Lina running around pressing R and so are never able to leverage creep gold into kill gold/objectives (which is how many "carries" make up for their lack of early game killing power). That's not feasible for many heroes this patch, but alch is most definitely not one of those. He can be 6 slotted in 30 minutes, and then 8 slotted (moon shard and aghs) by 40.
But anyhow, let's be honest. This is dota. Every hero can "work" aka win games in a pub in every patch. Like someone said earlier, all we really want to see is change. Regardless if the unpopular heroes can be good or not, people just want change. Want a new prom king/queen and some new faces; the old guys need to graduate already.
Alchemist still gets a lot of picks down here.
Add all random to ranked games then I might be willing to give it a try.
Riki can dominate if the other team is stupid and never buys dust/wards.
The Downside? What downside? Being able to donate 4200 gold to an ally is amazing in coordinated games.
I also still think people hate on the LC Aghs to much. Its great when you want to use her ult mainly as lockdown. With a scepter, the enemy can not get away no matter what. Good for when the enemy has ways to stun LC but can't really kill her in 5 seconds, against people like Storm, Ember, and Morphing.
I also still think people hate on the LC Aghs to much. Its great when you want to use her ult mainly as lockdown. With a scepter, the enemy can not get away no matter what. Good for when the enemy has ways to stun LC but can't really kill her in 5 seconds, against people like Storm, Ember, and Morphing.
hes just goofing
accidentally bought it yesterday
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
You get it so you can build it into Dagon later for sick nukes combined with Meld.