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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion

S

Shuggananas

Banned
rhfb said:
It's never the fault of the fourth person they roped into the game, it's always your fault.

That fourth person in the stack is usually realllllly bad :(
Click to expand...

and don't you dare say a word or you get insta reported
yeah the level disparity is usually the worst about these, most of the time they put the trashbag(s) on the support(s)
 
K

Kade

Member
Should you go the distance and get Greaves on Enigma? Only when you're rich and have BKB or other important Enigma items? Not at all?
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
no I'm against being a soft pussy when somebody is ruining my game by being an incompetent brain dead moron, there's a difference
I don't flame everybody on my team every game, I flame when somebody is being horseshit and the situation is fucked up, which happens, maybe not in your utopia where each game is a comeback, you have 98% WR and 7k mmr but in reality it does
I mute all chat in all my games and remain silent in most of them, I unmute all chat when somebody is being so fucking shit it infuriates me and I need to vent.
Click to expand...

I still have yet to see a good reason for flaming people. What exactly does it accomplish?

Oh and by the way, this is just from my first page of Dotabuff, these were all the games that I remember off the top of my head were comebacks for us.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1633235103
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1631510044
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1631326017
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1620134050
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1615502468
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1612904795
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1612544208
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Wok said:
Mek Enigma is really good. It is really hard for the opponents to stop the early push. If I could pull the death ball strat in pubs, I would get +25 every 25 min.
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I personally haven't been a fan of Mek Enigma lately, I feel like I generally have more success just getting a fast blink and making game-winning Black Holes.
 
Wok

Wok

Member
Hylian7 said:
I personally haven't been a fan of Mek Enigma lately, I feel like I generally have more success just getting a fast blink and making game-winning Black Holes.
Click to expand...

I don't know what my timing was in my last game, but starting to push a tower at maybe min 8 or so, with a Mek, plus the threat of a blackhole (even without blink), is really strong.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
you don't get game winning black holes in the early game, you get them in the mid and late game
mek should be made on enigma every single time
 
S

Smithy C

Member
No better feeling than beating a team with techies and bloodseeker on it.

Also, it's almost novel to see an alchemist farming purely for himself. No aghs built for anyone, just pure carry items.
 
T

t0rment

Member
i wish i lived in hylian's dota world. must be nice.

also, you guys are luck when only one person are bad in the 4 stacks, with me at least 3 people have no idea what they're doing, and 90% of the games is a stomp.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Hylian7 said:
You know, I see 4-stacks get a lot of hate around here, and there's a reason they aren't allowed in ranked games. While they are seeing you as "the idiot that ruined the game", and you see them as "A toxic 4-stack like all 4-stacks are", like what is there to gain from that? I don't think it's a 4-stack problem, it's just a toxic player problem. I mean the same thing can happen with a 3-stack and two solos/2-stack, or almost any combination of players ganging up on another player for whatever reason.

I don't think 4-stacks are bad in and of themselves, sure, there are toxic 4-stacks, but I have also played with 4-stacks that were nice, and quite good too. I would say I see the latter more often than the former.
Click to expand...

The problem with 4-stacks lies in the way the matchmaking algorithm works with them, it uses their average MMR. The same principle can be applied to 3 and 2 stacks, although the average is much harder to skew like in 4-stacks. You can play in 4k with a team of 5k+4k+3k+3k or even bigger disparities.

So basically you can have a really good player paired with 3 really bad player whose average will round your solo MMR, hence you'll be paired with them. The main issue is that you can't trust the low MMR guys to play at your level because they aren't at your level and were clearly brought up by their high skill friend, so you end up with 1 really good teammate and usually 2 that are, for the lack of a better term, a liability, which will sooner or later cost you the game. And of course they won't listen to you, even when you're trying to "teach" them because you're the stranger.

In that particular game I linked you can clearly see the TB new what he was doing. The other 3?? not really. So no matter how good me and him played, we were doomed from the get-go.
 
D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
I 4stack in like 75% of my games and according to dotabuff we have about a 60% winrate. Granted we're all pretty bad so it works out in our favor somehow
 
L

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
whiskeystrike said:
I 4stack in like 75% of my games and according to dotabuff we have about a 60% winrate. Granted we're all pretty bad so it works out in our favor somehow
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How often is your pub 5th a beacon of hope to your pack of awful friends as opposed to a drooling mongoloid that appears to have problems understand how a keyboard and mouse even function? Cause my 4-stack is full of shitlords and I'd still say 9.9999 times out of 10 we get the latter.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
whiskeystrike said:
I 4stack in like 75% of my games and according to dotabuff we have about a 60% winrate. Granted we're all pretty bad so it works out in our favor somehow
Click to expand...

The stack issue only happens when there's a big enough gap between skill of each individual player of the party. If the 2/3/4 players of the party are at the same skill level there's no problem because the matchmaking algorithm puts them at a similar skill level as they would have ended up if they had queued solo.
 
D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
LiQuid! said:
How often is your pub 5th a beacon of hope to your pack of awful friends as opposed to a drooling mongoloid that appears to have problems understand how a keyboard and mouse even function? Cause my 4-stack is full of shitlords and I'd still say 9.9999 times out of 10 we get the latter.
Click to expand...
the 5th is usually the second worst on the team. we have 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, and 3k so we're right around that 50% percentile I believe.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
The social dynamic of being the 5th wheel to a 4th stack is what makes it toxic. It's very rare that all 4 people in the stack are terrible flamers, it's usually one person who gets frustrated and starts blaming the stranger while the other 3 will generally enable that behavior even if they don't participate in it or encourage it. Depending on how the game is going the other 3 might join in 1 by 1, but never will they apologize for the asshole in their group or try to be friendly when another member is being openly hostile.

Basically if you want to know what it feels like to be a girl on the internet, play 5th for a 4-stack.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I honestly feel like black holes are only successful with the element of surprise. A Blink Dagger gives you just that, and chances are you won't get a perfect 5-clump Black Hole, so you're going to need a BKB too.

Those of you on #TeamMek, how do you combat these problems?
 
T

TUSR

Banned
mek makes you a more sustainable and consistent threat

not every black hole needs to be big

too many players don't use black hole early enough because they think it needs to hit 4 or 5 people
 
H

Hylian7

Member
TUSR said:
mek makes you a more sustainable and consistent threat

not every black hole needs to be big

too many players don't use black hole early enough because they think it needs to hit 4 or 5 people
Click to expand...

I realize it doesn't have to have the entire team in it, but what about the usual "BLACK HOL-*stunned*" by someone you couldn't see, or couldn't catch in it for whatever reason? Honestly the only reason I fear using it without a BKB is if there's a specific hero with a stun (or a Rubick or something) that I can't catch in it.
 
S

SilentRacoon

Member
KingKong said:
just mute everyone as soon as you load into the game
Click to expand...

I always do this with all my opponents, no matter what, but when it comes to teammates I only do so when they are spewing hateful things through all the game non-stop, otherwise I prefer having at least a way to communicate with the people I'm playing with.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
Hylian7 said:
I realize it doesn't have to have the entire team in it, but what about the usual "BLACK HOL-*stunned*" by someone you couldn't see, or couldn't catch in it for whatever reason? Honestly the only reason I fear using it without a BKB is if there's a specific hero with a stun (or a Rubick or something) that I can't catch in it.
Click to expand...
that's just dota man

you can't contextualize every situation

watch the map, be aware of spells and their usage
 
R

RS4-

Member
Mek before blink on enigma just allows you to take down towers far earlier and you have the sustain to possibly take a complete lane.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Prioritize blackholing the interrupts.

If they all picked interrupts WELP. Time to repick.
 
G

gai_shain

Member
Hylian7 said:
I honestly feel like black holes are only successful with the element of surprise. A Blink Dagger gives you just that, and chances are you won't get a perfect 5-clump Black Hole, so you're going to need a BKB too.

Those of you on #TeamMek, how do you combat these problems?
Click to expand...

you dont use it to initiate if you go mek, easy as that
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Hylian7 said:
I realize it doesn't have to have the entire team in it, but what about the usual "BLACK HOL-*stunned*" by someone you couldn't see, or couldn't catch in it for whatever reason? Honestly the only reason I fear using it without a BKB is if there's a specific hero with a stun (or a Rubick or something) that I can't catch in it.
Click to expand...

Basically requiring the other team to use all their disables on you in a teamfight is a big enough deal, in my experience. I started turning my enigma lose streak around when I realized that I don't necessarily need to hit a black hole to start a fight, since it's extremely good counter-initiation and people aren't going to have the presence of mind to delta split for an entire fight, plus it denies an area which limits their options even if they didn't get caught in the initial aoe.

I wanted to play enigma like an ES or Magnus where I wait in the periphery until I get the perfect opportunity to land my fight-winning ult, when really it's more effective to push a tower with your team, lay down a midnight pulse under where you want to fight, and if the other team decides to initiate on one of your heroes, throw your stun, mek your team, and then black hole once everyone is engaged. The midnight pulse and mek are guaranteed and will probably win your team the fight, and landing the black hole is just a bonus.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oh and this should be obvious but never pick enigma into Rubick.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
So, that secret shop, when is it opening?
LCnCRPK.gif
 
M

Monochromaticx

Member
Best black holes are counter initiation bhd while the enmy stuns on cd and they are tunnel visioned on someone else . You can walk in without blink and hit a good one if you time it right
 
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